Modern Marketers with Blake Beus and Greg Marshall

Modern marketing tactics that anyone can use to scale and grow

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Friday Jan 14, 2022

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript Greg Marshall  0:03  And ladies and gentlemen, we got our audio is actually working on this one this last time. We forgot to double check it. And and I thought it was a good one. Blake Beus  0:13  Yeah. It's good. It's it's good to be back. I think this is the first one we're actually recording in the new year. I mean, we've recorded some Yeah, before the new year and they launched after the new year, but now we're actually recording in the new year. So all of the holiday season is over now. 2022 Yeah, especially for us. And advertising is going to, I think advertising is going to take a big bunch of changes are going to, and you were just telling me right before Yeah, yeah. This this big, big admission? Greg Marshall  0:46  Yeah. Facebook, I couldn't believe it. That's why That's why I think I had to like do a double take, because I thought I was like, Is this real? So there was like a big notification on one of the ad accounts when I when I went on there. And essentially, it was Facebook saying we understand that tracking is not is accurate. And you know, and I'm paraphrasing here, basically, that you're you're seeing worse results tracking wise than you ever have. That's essentially what it was saying in a very nice, nice way. Blake Beus  1:17  Or they ran through a whole team of PR people or something but not opened ourselves up to any sort of legal acts. Yeah, having a terrible product. Greg Marshall  1:27  And that's, you know, and that's basically what it felt like, right is I was reading it, and I was saying, but we're working very hard to fix this. And so, with that being said, I think a lot of customers and people that are using ads are are coming to the realization, which was something that I felt like, I will communicate with clients a lot, which is, and we've done this for years, right? Where even when we thought Facebook was super accurate, it still wasn't no 100% accurate. And so it's just now less accurate. Which, you know, is, you know, what are your thoughts on that? Like, for me, I know what I see. And like, it doesn't really bother me that much. Because there's there's a way around, then yeah, it actually makes it a little bit more, where you have to, I guess be a little more skilled at what you're doing. But what are your thoughts? Blake Beus  2:21  Yeah, I'm gonna have a couple thoughts here for first and foremost, I feel like it's a little bit like Reagan in the Cold War when he said trust, but verify. Yeah. Except for I don't even know if I would entirely trust reported data into ad platforms. In fact, none of the ad platforms, right, just just the nature of how data works. It's never 100% accurate. So you always need to kind of verify it with with some hard data, right? So if, say hard data, yeah, if Facebook is saying you got 10 purchases, you look into your actual purchase system and see did you get 10 purchases that day, right. And so it's hard to pair up those purchases with a Facebook ad from your, from your purchase system, unless you're maybe dumping some traffic tracking codes into your purchase purchasing system, then you can but but you just want to kind of double double check. The second thing, the second thought that comes to my mind is, is I think we're gonna start seeing a lot more companies turn more and more to good media buyers and advertiser advertisers, because Facebook used to be a very easy platform for an entrepreneur to hop in there and kind of do their own thing. But so many things are changing with how tracking works, and how everything works, that media buyers are going to have to step up their game and the media buyers that are fastest at learning, the new things and fastest testing things are going to be the media buyers that are going to succeed in 2022. And beyond. And more companies are going to hold their media buyers to higher standards of communication and talking through what's going on and explaining those things. And more companies are going to look for media buyers to help them with this because it's becoming more and more time consuming for them to manage it themselves. Greg Marshall  4:08  Well, I what I'm seeing just from an inquiry standpoint, I'm definitely having more people reach out needing help with their, their Facebook ads. Yep. And what that tells me is it is becoming harder and harder meaning the the novice, were in the past, you could literally just go in member like even you can even set up your picks without having to do website domain verifications and doing all and setting up your aggregate event. He didn't do any of that, right? You get a piece of code or a number. And you put it on your website and you started running ads. And essentially, the pixel algorithm did all the work right? Right now it's actually you have to do most of it. And so because now there's More people reaching out needing help. That right there tells me that it's just getting harder to track, it's getting harder to track and you can't get away with like, the easy stuff that you could have back in the day. Now, it's actually, you have to think this through and come up with a real strategy, right. And one of the one of the things that I've been thinking about recently that may change, and since you understand the back end data more, you can verify this, but in my opinion, I don't see any of this tracking that we've had in the past ever coming back. I don't think there will ever be a time where you can track every piece of behavior. And when I say track meaning off platforms, right, right. So like, with if you're on Facebook, or on Google or on YouTube, I believe that's not going anywhere, because they like own that. And they can track all that but meaning the behaviors that you made when you went off of the platform. So Blake Beus  6:00  and what we talked about what Greg means by that is, when you click on a link to take you off of Facebook, now you're on say, my website, Blake Beus calm. Yeah. I used to be able to track and send a lot of data back into Facebook, using their pixel just kind of did it automatically. Now that data is limited. Facebook doesn't see as much of what's going on when someone's going around on my site. Yep. That that they did 345 years ago. Greg Marshall  6:28  Yep. So I feel like one of the big changes that will happen, or strategies or moves that you'll have to do is get really good at in app. Just you know, retargeting tracking, setting up. So the fundamentals are always the same, right? build awareness, engage with them, and then convert them. Yeah. But instead of you could just a few years ago, not even two, three years ago, you could actually skip a lot of that you could just go straight for purchase, like just just buy. Yeah. And you didn't have to warm people up and use kind of the quote unquote, old school methods. But I feel like it's gonna we're going to be forced to do that. Yeah, to be forced. Go back to that. And that's where it becomes a little more challenging, because you're, you're losing your teammate base. Blake Beus  7:17  Yeah, and like, I think what a lot of people realize is, is, well, I think about it this way. This is going to make lazy advertisers drop the platform. And unfortunately, businesses that are a little bit less sophisticated with advertising are going to maybe just drop online advertising altogether. But what that means is you're going to have more sophisticated advertisers on platform and everything like that. But to talk about your point, when you start talking about off platform versus on platform, what I'm going to what I'm going to guess is going to see a lot lot lot more improvement a lot more use is retargeting based on on platform events. Yes, right. And you brought this up, you taught you right before this call, you brought this up talking about retargeting based on video views, which is not a new strategy. Yeah. But but to to explain to you how this works. You know, you who out there is listening. If someone is watching a video on the Facebook platform that you uploaded, Facebook knows and can fully track your behavior, your customers and visitors and viewers behavior on that. And then you can retarget those people based on those, those events, the events where we can't retarget as good anymore. With it with as good of accuracy is the events that happen on my website. Yep, yep. Right. So that so basically what that means is, Greg Marshall  8:50  you'll have to, I feel like this is what's gonna happen is you'll have to be very good at enap retargeting and thinking about the entire, like flow of them. And I also think that there's a couple of changes that are happening on these platforms that are going to impact that. So number one, did you see the update with Instagram? That's gonna roll out here soon. We're gonna change the option to do chronological. Yes, based on I did, I did, I did. I think that's a big indicator that the algorithms are gonna have to switch. Mm hmm. Because now since they have way less data, they now need to, I feel like they need to focus heavier on making sure people don't jump ship completely off the platform. So now they actually are like going backwards. So making because if you need to do in app ads, you need people to use the apps you write. And people have been complaining about the algorithm saying I don't see any of my friends posts. I just see what you're feeding me. Yeah. And that's something that I believe forces people on other platforms? Yeah. Because they're seeing stuff they don't really, they're not choosing to see it's their Facebook is dictating. Yeah, what they see right now they're offering that option back. And I feel like that's going to be a big That, to me that communicates a shift. And they understand they're probably gonna have to do a lot more in app conversions type model. So they need people to stay on. Blake Beus  10:23  They need people to not leave the app. And to be fair, that was the goal. That's been their goal all along. The longer people are on their app, the more money they make from advertisers, the more eyeball inventory, yeah, they can, they can sell advertisers. But I did see that I mean, Instagrams feed used to be chronological, and then they switched it, claiming, quote, it's going to be better experience, we're going to give you posts, that's nice, that's corporate, that's a marketer speak for we're gonna make a whole lot more money by showing you the posts, we want you to see and not give you a choice what you can see. But I feel like Instagram has been feeling the heat from things like tick tock, oh, there's, there's, and they're and they're reverting back to the old way of things on the for their people's feed, or at least giving people the option to view their feed that way, and giving them the option choose how they want to eat. Am I in a mood right now to explore content that I may not be aware of? Yeah, or am I in the mood right now to only see the content of people I know and, and want to see that content. And so they're giving people that option to keep them more interested in the platform. I ultimately think that is a good move for most people, though, because I hated when they got rid of the chronological feed. I Greg Marshall  11:39  was like, I love the craft. And here's the thing, kind of the irony of all this is, there's a there's a podcast I like to listen to, and he talks about this all the time, which is competition is good. Instagram, and Facebook would never do this. If tick tock wasn't the number one visited website last year. Growing, right. And that's, this is a good lesson to show you can never believe you're bigger than your customer base, because they will leave the second a better experience or service comes out. And this you know, tick tock right now, like I remember, just two years ago, there was almost no one using tick tock. No. Blake Beus  12:20  I used to think tick tock was stupid. Me too. And I use it a lot. Greg Marshall  12:23  And I'm on there. I mean, it might be to be honest, it's getting close, you choose my favorite platform, but tick tock is getting very close, because there's a lot of fun stuff on there, and cool content and and that's the thing. That's that's where I feel like these changes are being made to enhance the user experience on their platforms, because they now feel threatened. I feel because this other platform is gaining so much momentum. Yeah. Blake Beus  12:50  Yeah. Yeah. So I completely agree with you about you know, the the competition being good. What is is interesting, though, is the players are having to play different and one of the things that I find very interesting with with tick tock versus all of the others is from like, a, a business perspective. And I don't know if you're still seeing this, but from a business perspective. I'm still seeing people are struggling big time to monetize tick tock. Yeah, I I listened to an interview of a guy that has nearly a million followers on tick tock, and he was talking about, you know, how many views and things he gets on stuff and he didn't talk about hard numbers, but I kind of went through and, and looked through his sales funnel from his home screen and everything. I I can't imagine this guy is making more than a few $1,000 a month off of his following. Whereas on Instagram, as someone has a million followers, I know a few people that have a million followers. And again, they they don't tell me how much money they make. Greg Marshall  13:53  But another day, Blake Beus  13:55  I mean, I trade up houses every couple years to bigger and bigger, bigger homes and they're driving super fancy cars, and this is literally their full time thing. They do nothing else other than this. So So Tik Tok is a platform is is fantastic, but it's not super mature from the monetizing perspective just yet. Yeah. But I definitely want to keep an eye on and I'm sure it will get figured out. Someone will. Someone I'm sure a few people have figured that out. Right. But But the other thing I found interesting about the Tick Tock platform when we can dive back into tracking and we wanted to talk about server cookieless trucking, but the one thing I found interesting about tick tock with this guy that has a million followers on Tiktok he'll have a video that will get 10 million views and then the next video will get 5000 Yeah, and then the next one will get 500,000 It's it's almost like the number of followers you have is has zero indication as to what you're going to get view wise Yeah. And and that all has to do with how their algorithm works and everything. But the number of followers you have is a flex yes does give you authority to people's eyes, and can be leveraged to monetize in ways and just say, well, this person has a million followers. So they're selling washing machines. And I saw this guy, he's got, like, 500,000 followers, and he's this local appliance seller in Canada. Gog. I love his video. Yes. So good. Yeah. And I'm sure he's the best seller in that area, because he has 500,000 followers on Tiktok. But anyway, we wanted we kind of got off track, but we want to talk about tracking the track Greg Marshall  15:45  because we have to talk about if you're going to go the cookieless world, then an app experiences is going to play a big role a big role. Yeah. On content, what's what type of content is being put out there. And I do think one of the advantages at the moment that Tik Tok has, and this may be a strategy of theirs is they are making it easier. There's, there's less limitations to what you can put, like what you can put out in order to get more views. And the regular user that doesn't have a lot of followers can still get a lot of views. Right. And so I think that is what hooks more people in is because the opposite is true. Instagram face. Absolutely. Greg Marshall  16:31  If you have 10 followers, there's no way you're going to get well not no way but the likelihood is very small, that you'll get a lot of views versus on Tik Tok, you can literally have like five followers come up with a video. That's pretty good. And you can still get 10,000 views. Easy, right? Yeah. And so that's why I think that may be a strategy of theirs is to help people get seen more, because they know the biggest complaint that people have on Instagram. Is no one sees anything. Blake Beus  17:00  No, yeah, if no one sees anything, and they tried to fix that with reels. And you can on rails, if you've done rails you can get with you know, so you have 1000 followers, you can get 10,000 15,000 20,000 views. Yep. But it's not as it's harder to amplify that then than it is on Tik Tok. But it's easier to turn it into money on Instagram. So there's there's like Greg Marshall  17:26  those a trade trade off? Well, let's let's talk about cookieless. Tracking, right. So cooking is basically meaning not being able to track people all over the internet. Yeah, so Blake Beus  17:37  let's just real quick tech, deep dive on on cookies, right. So when someone comes to my website, you're going to have a script, set a cookie on the browser, it's literally this little tiny piece of data that sits inside your web browser that can then be sent consent events back to your server. That's not how it really works. But that's how effectively it works for a technical person. So but the thing with cookies is they're very easy to block, right? So you have ad blockers, iOS 1415 plus whatever, they're they're just blocking any sort of tracking cookies. And, and they, they can just have errors with network problems, right? Because the internet feels like it's pretty great. But there's a lot of dropped data packets behind the scenes that can cause problems. So yeah, Greg Marshall  18:27  I heard Google Chrome's taking. Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be taken Absolutely. But Blake Beus  18:30  Google, Google as an advertiser, Facebook as an advertiser, and a few others have announced that they are going to be moving forward with cookieless. Tracking. Yeah, so it is going to be the future. Yep. And what does that mean for people? Well, well, what what that means is, for many people is you're either going to have to do your tracking in app, or using an in app browser, which tic TOCs in a browser. pisses me off is not good? Well, it won't let you leave it. Meaning meaning so on on Facebook, if I click on a Facebook ad, it opens up in their web browser. But I can click on that and click on the buttons that say, Hey, open this up in my phone, whatever, right? So if I'm looking at my phone, tic TOCs phone browser, you can't do that. They force you to stay in there. I can't copy the URL on any buddies profile pages and open it up in a different browser. So you have to use their browser and I guarantee that's because they want to force their tracking. Oh, yeah. Cuz on it's gonna be it's gonna You're still in app at that point. You know, you're maybe on my websites gonna be the new way. Yeah. And so it's frustrating, but I think that's what they're doing. But But then you're what you're gonna see is you're gonna see a lot of people, right? You're going to probably need to have a better website hosting server infrastructure to send data back to Facebook and Google whatever. And what I mean by that when when someone lands on On my website, their own web browser on their own computer sends the the tracking code and information back to the Facebook's ad platform. But the new way is going to be your web host, will send it from server to server send that tracking information background. But that was going to require your that you are on a web host that has those capabilities. So we're going to start seeing that pop up and become more and more and more interesting because most web hosts don't support that at all right now. And that is going to give us much more accurate information. When we send this data server to server. both Facebook and Google already have that capabilities. It's just that most people are on a server platform that doesn't support it. Got it. So we're gonna see more and more and more of that happening. And so it's not super urgent right now. But people are going again, this is one of those things where I said, people are going to need to reach out to media buyers, because it's getting more sophisticated. Well picture, people are going to need to reach out to more sophisticated hosting platforms, or even companies that do managed services with hosting to set this up properly and manage it properly for them. Greg Marshall  21:17  What do you think? Here's a question for them. What do you think? All right, so a lot of the reasons in the past with pixels. And what made it effective is not only the targeting, but the optimization, right? So the more data you fed back into the account, typically, the lower your cost per purchase will start to become Yeah, what do you think will happen with an app? Essentially? How do you do that? If there's no real information really getting pushed as effectively in the past back into your ad account? Because that's where all the optimizations happen. Blake Beus  21:55  Right. So I think, I think what people are going to need to do more and more and more is leverage the offline conversions features that is both in Facebook and Google. And what that is for for you that may not know is, if I have a list of customers that purchased yesterday, I can essentially upload that list in a CSV file, or write some software to push it manually push that over there with a couple of unique identifiers, their email address, maybe the NPC ID that they would that gets appended to the URL when someone clicks on a page, send that data back into the Facebook platform. And then and then you'll you'll be optimizing that way. Also, you'll have server platforms that can optimize. And so you might the net effect, if you're doing both of those, you might actually get more optimization data than you were with the pixel. Yeah. But there's more setup more, it's hard. It's hard to say it's harder and logic. Yeah, it's just not done for you. Right, the pixel was he so you copy and paste some code on your site, and it's done. This is another level. Greg Marshall  23:07  One, this is like, what some of my clients to like, some of them aren't even aware of what a CSV file is. Yeah. Right. Blake Beus  23:15  And where should they have to? Like they do, they don't necessarily need to know that to run a successful business doing, I don't know, plumbing or something like that. Right. In and, you know, that's why they outsource to people like you or whatever. But, but yeah, it's Greg Marshall  23:33  well, here's Okay, so here's another question for you from the data side. So like companies like a high growth? How does this impact if it becomes cookieless? How does that impact a business like that? Blake Beus  23:46  So Hieros, and companies like Hieros, they all claim to be able to handle cookieless. But none of them really do it. Okay. iros runs into the exact same problems. And the reason it worked really well, at the beginning was because the cookies weren't noticed as tracking cookies, and they weren't blocked yet, because they were a new player out there. And they weren't big enough for Apple to care about for ad blockers to care about. But they still they still are using cookies and everything. And so what Hieros if you look at setting up Hieros, or some of these other platforms, what they have you do for their quote, unquote, cookieless support is either build some way to push data directly into their platform from your server, yeah, or upload a CSV file of your data into the server. So it's the same, it's the same kind of thing, right? Offline conversion, essentially the same kind of thing and they handle the conversion tracking, a little bit different and probably a little bit better for some use cases than like Facebook does or whatever. And it's probably a little bit easier to integrate into their system from server to server than it is to maybe Facebook or something like that. I don't know, I haven't actually done an integration. I've looked into it. But they're, they're going to bump into the same problems. And I have looked at their site and I have seen when I run an ad blocker on on Hieros website is a blocker, it blocks any site that I know that that is running Hieros, it will block those transactions. So they're bumping into the same problem. Greg Marshall  25:24  Again, too big, Blake Beus  25:26  they're getting too big. And they wanted to push the easy button because they needed to onboard enough clients and copying and pasting some cookie tracking code is the easiest way to get more clients. If you have a sophisticated integration process. You can't onboard a bunch of new clients. If you're a brand new startup, you need to onboard a bunch of clients before you start becoming cashflow positive. And so they push the easy button. I'm confident they'll they already have plans in the works to have deeper integrations and things for those people that need it. But they're bumping into the same problems. Greg Marshall  25:57  Well, here's a question, you know, just from like a super high level. Alright, so why why is there such an anti tracking issue? What meaning Why is it such a big? Like? It seems like one of the challenges with digital marketing is attribution we've talked about? Yeah. And it seems like, anytime a solution comes out, it eventually gets blocked. Yeah. So my question is, from a high level, philosophical reasons, why do you think there is such an issue? With the tracking when it comes to the marking? Meaning? Why does each company want to stop or block it? Blake Beus  26:43  I think it's a big question. And then as a big conversation, I think there's a couple of different reasons. Reason number one, I feel like that it's, it's so that these big companies can try to gain a competitive advantage. So a lot, a lot of people know this. But Apple has its own advertising network. It's specifically for apps in their app store, on iOS devices, but they have an advertising network platform. So they very conveniently blocked all of Facebook's ability to track and then came up with and then came up with rules that Facebook had to follow in order for them to be partially tracked on the platform. And, and but conveniently, Apple still allows their own tracking cookies on their own ad network. Strange, right? And so So, so that's one of the reasons and here we have to, I don't know what they're worth trillion dollar companies butting heads, and the consumers are over here saying, I just want I just want my shit to work. Greg Marshall  27:49  I just, I just want my business. Yeah, no, it's working. Yeah, that's it. Blake Beus  27:54  Yep. And then the other part of why tracking is because in the past companies, specifically Facebook, we have the whole Cambridge analytic a thing, and 2016, where they were very clearly abusing the amount of data that was collected, and giving it to their advertising partners to a scary level. And so protections, new new legislation came out. Europe launched a whole bunch of new legislation. That's why there's the GDPR, California came up with its own, like cookie tracking registration or stuff. So there's all these new things that came out, because of the abuse of data collection. And really, most people, most people don't know how much data is collected about them by advertisers and then sold to other average other advertisers. And if most people knew how much data was collected about them, they would probably not be not feel comfortable with that. Sure. But you and I know how much it is. And I'm like, Yeah, I'm like, I still want to use Facebook. Greg Marshall  29:05  But yeah, what's my alternative? Right? Well enter the cave and have no internet and no, yeah, access to the way the world right now. And sometimes Blake Beus  29:12  that sounds nice. But it's not in reality, it's not sustainable. So so that's kind of the two the two sides of it. The other thing is is like a matter and this is a little bit of a deep, deep and going off the deep end here, but it's a matter of custody, right? And what I mean by custody is, is who owns that data? And are they taking good care of it? Right? So if Facebook knows a whole lot about me where I'm going because they have GPS enabled on my phone, what stores I'm at, I know who I'm talking with, because I'm sitting next to Greg right here for for an hour and our phones are right next to each other. So clearly Greg and I know each other so it's gonna show up. Hey, do you know Greg Yeah, next time we see each other, like, like, they know a lot about me and are they taking good care of that data and and making sure that it's secure? Yeah. So that Hackers can't get to it, are they making sure that they are doing with they are being transparent about what they're doing with that data, and a few other things because people have a reasonable right to privacy. But with digital, that line is lousy. And the laws kind of don't catch up with how fast technology advances and how fast how technologically knowledgeable the general population is. And so there's this like gray area where Greg Marshall  30:29  they're really smart people can be steps ahead. Yes. And he's right. And yeah, bad, bad actors and bad people could could abuse that kind of like a sporting event where you know, the play of the other team. I don't know that you know that. Exactly. So you can't exactly easily win. And I guess, so I guess that's probably the biggest thing. And so I think with this with this episode, the, the key changes that I believe will be made from from a marketing standpoint is get really good at in App Tracking, get really good at coming up with true media buying true messaging, and you're just gonna have to do things differently. And the same at the same time, right. So like, you're gonna use the same thought process and concepts that you were using before, when you had access to all of the tracking outside of the platform, but you just are going to do it within. Right, right. And so I just got to get really good now, being able to understand what's happening, who to target, and what behaviors indicate that this may happen. So you're going to use a lot of the same thinking patterns. Yeah, it's just mostly going to happen within that, right, Blake Beus  31:46  you just need to maybe shift how you're handling retargeting and shift your understanding of how tracking works. And I would say, take a big step back. And if you're going to dump a ton of time into something surrounding your marketing, I would spend that time and energy on your marketing message and your offer. Yep. Right. Because you're at the end of the day, you're speaking with people. So you want to trigger those, those emotions that are going to get them to take action, you want to be very clear about not only what features your product or offer has, but what benefits and what what that actually means to to them and what they want their hopes and dreams and helps them run away from their fears and anxieties, and focus on those things. So that's where I would do my time and then I would maybe look into kind of outsourcing or offloading some of the technical bits Yeah. To a consultant or a media buyer or someone that you can do some brainstorming with and then can help set up the tracking and everything that demand Greg Marshall  32:46  is gonna go up I think big time. Yeah, I Blake Beus  32:49  think I definitely think so. Greg Marshall  32:52  Well, I think outside of that, I guess we will Blake how to get how do people get a hold of you if they need to? Blake Beus  32:58  Yeah, just go to just go to Blake Beus stock calm. And you can you can see a couple things I have going on there I have my SM three membership, which help. It's like it's like a group membership where we do 90% Done For You kind of content creation where you kind of puzzle piece the things together. And then trainings and community and challenges and stuff like that. That's the main offer I have right now. And you can just find that at Blake calm. And what about you, Greg, Greg Marshall  33:23  you can just go to Greg And if you need help with any your marketing, you need a strategy call. Just go ahead and book one and we can hop on and talk about how we can help you so outside of that. Thanks for listening and we'll talk to you guys next time. Yeah, Blake Beus  33:37  we'll talk take we'll catch you later.  

Wednesday Jan 05, 2022

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript   Blake Beus  0:00  We're recording now. And it is moving now. Greg Marshall  0:03  All right. We just had a wonderful experience where we record a beautiful podcast for you guys. But for whatever reason, technology just paused on us. So Blake Beus  0:12  I was the best one. It's, but it's gone. It's it's gone forever. But But we got this and we'll, we'll do it again. And I think we'll we'll make it even better. Greg Marshall  0:22  Oh, yeah. 100% agree. So basically, our last podcast was about essentially, you know, when people people want to change, what they do that's already working? Well, you shouldn't write like, a challenge that I have, with a lot of clients, as I actually talked to them about, I have to talk them into not changing what's already working, because they're becoming bored with their own marketing campaigns. And so they want to, like, shift them, or let's try something new, or everyone in the whole world is seeing this, or my customers are too bombarded, which that typically is more about, we're thinking about ourselves too much right thing like, because I saw this 20 times, because I'm on the back end of my business that everyone else saw 20 times. But trust me they have. Yeah, because you got to spend a lot of money. Blake Beus  1:13  Yeah, well, and what kind of sparked the whole conversations before we started recording the first time that didn't record correctly? You made a statement to me that kind of just really caught my attention. You said, I can't tell you how many times I have to have conversation with clients telling them not to change things not to make changes that that things are working. But they they want to like keep switching steps. Right. And we went off on a big tangent about why people do Yeah, some of that is never going to never going to be heard ever. Yeah. But I do remember some some bits of it. And one of them we were talking about? Well, let me let me tell you, you have some great ideas on why you think people want to change something that's working. They're spending, you know, $500 a day and they're getting $2,000 A day back. Yeah. And they want to shut the campaign down and try something. Greg Marshall  2:08  Yeah, yeah. So those are basically the reasons why people want to do that. It's fear based, right. And we all run run into this, we're not excluding us, we're just saying, this is something that we all have to constantly, you know, be aware of, are we making decisions based off fear, or actual data, a lot of times, people present data in a way where they think it's data, but it's actually fear based. And they've just come up with a great argument, right. But really, it's two fears of fear. Number one is the fear of kind of looking like played out, like people see your stuff too much. Or like, you know, they've already done that there's no creativity in that. And, you know, creators pride themselves on having new stuff and coming up with new ideas. So it goes against their internal kind of makeup, to keep showing the same thing over and over again. And so one is they don't want to look like, you know, they're played out or going out of style, because they keep doing the same thing. And number two, is the fear of lack of resources, right? So they believe that, well, if I add on to what I'm already doing, I may not have the money, the mental capacity or the time to actually do this. So they want to cut things off. And another kind of reason for that is, when there's more things happening, there tends to be a feeling of loss of control. So the fastest way to kind of feel like you're back in control, is to stop something, or cut it off. And so that's, that's where I think a lot of that comes from, Blake Beus  3:29  yeah, do you? Do you think that sometimes there's like this pressure from peers, or even a perceived pressure or pressure that doesn't really exist other other than something we put on ourselves, or the business owner puts on themselves? That, that I want my peers out there that are also business owners to, to respect me and think that I'm innovative or think that I'm always reaching certain levels or doing things and I'm worried that they're going to think I'm boring and lame, if I keep selling the same T shirt over and over and over again, even though it's making me loads of money. Yes, Greg Marshall  4:03  yeah. So I think that definitely comes into play, especially when you have, you know, I had this situation happen to me before, where you have an outside adviser that doesn't actually have the experience yet. In this field, they're very skilled, but they don't have the actual experience yet making suggestions that are the right decisions, and another business model, but not in this one. Right. Okay. So I'm not saying this person does not know what they're doing, or that, you know, their their advice is, like, done with ill will or even not credible, I'm saying is the advice is applicable to that particular industry, but it doesn't transfer over 100%. So, my example would be like, I can't say because I understand, you know, digital marketing that I now know how to do heart surgery. Because I've had success of digital marketing, right? My advice might be keep doing the same thing in the digital marketing world. But that may be terrible advice. If I'm like, operating on someone's heart, right? I mean that that could be, you know, catastrophic. So what I mean is, typically what happens is, outside noise definitely impacts how people can behave, particularly if they're tied emotionally, to what the product is like, they made it, they tend to, they tend to, if anyone kind of goes after, they will actually take the criticism and try to change it. Mm hm. Because they're like, Oh, I can't be I can't have people viewing me this way, or thinking about things this way. So I need to change it. So you're absolutely outside forces all the time. And of course, if you're someone who communicates with family and friends, and they see what you're doing, people are always going to give you that sideline advice on how to do things they've never done. We've all run into, right, where you have family members telling, you really shouldn't do that, like, well, how many businesses? Have you started? Yeah, because I haven't seen a single one. So how Blake Beus  6:19  are you if they do, you know, do on a business, or whatever, your business might be totally different. And it's totally fine. I, I do understand very, very deeply the stress that comes from creating something yourself, yes. And then running your own ads. And that's something that I ran into. And that's really, that's literally the reason that you and I started working together. And we had met before that, but that's the reason we start working together. Because I had created my kind of initial product. I was running my own ads, and like, everything was so insanely stressful for me, because it was my thing, every time a negative comment would come in, I would be stressed because it was hard for me to not take that personally. Because this was all I had done. All of it. Yep. And delegating that to you. Took a lot of took a lot of stress off of my mind you didn't you say you had clients literally this week, reach out? Yeah, I can't take it anymore. Greg Marshall  7:19  Yep. Yep, I've had in the last two months alone, I've had a couple of new clients come in, where they know how to run ads, they have run ads before they were running them before they reached out. And they've taken all the courses and everything. But when they when they get in the game, as I call it is a lot different. Because you're not actually if we were all cold and emotionless, then the it wouldn't matter. You can step in and do anything, right? The problem is, when you're practicing, and you're not in the game, yet, you don't feel the pressures of when you actually have to go at your product. Now you're spending your money, and people are commenting, or not buy or buy and whatever. And now that you feel like that's a reflection of you as a person on your character. It starts to play games with you when you run an ads because you start to get emotionally tied to you know, is this going to work? Am I doing the right thing? Do people hate my products? Do I need to do this, I just switch it up. And it reveals a lot about how you handle a lot of other problems in your life, right. And I can speak from personal experience where it's like, you take these and you're like, if you have a tendency to go, if things aren't working out, you just scrap everything and you start all over again, that's essentially that's going to show up when you're running your ads. And that's not the best strategy. The best strategy is not to act, overly impulsive. And emotionally, the best strategy is to kind of like, change course, slightly, slowly, don't take anything personal, and make your decisions off data. The problem is when you get too close to it, your emotions are tied. We're all susceptible to this. This is like I said, we're not excluding ourselves. It's just now delegating it out will help because it allows you to stay in your strong space, and, you know, event essentially not ruin the part that needs to be run a certain way by getting overly emotional about it. Blake Beus  9:19  Yeah. Yeah, so one of the things and I liked your response to this in our previous one that no one's ever going to hear ever. But But I asked you, you know, do you do you feel like there's some sort of daily spend threshold are some arbitrary number different for everybody where, where they hit this certain spend and all of a sudden the anxiety goes goes through the roof, right? Because and I said this last one, I have worked with people where they think you're spending $100 A day in ADS. That's crazy. And then I've met other people worked with other people where they're like, I don't Don't even turn on a campaign if it's not at least 150 or $200 a day. And then, you know, and then you have people that are comfortable spending 1000s a day. Yep. Right. But you feel like people have some sort of threshold that they don't know about. And all of a sudden they hit it and, and shit hits the fan and anxiety goes through the roof, and they're freaking out? Greg Marshall  10:19  Oh, absolutely, there's no doubt about this. So every single client that I work with has their own threshold daily, that they can operate under and be just fine. Even though the number that they're deciding is not actually accurate. Okay, so for example, you'll have because it's all based on expectation levels, and the thing that will kill you, when coming up with a budget, the thing that will absolutely destroy is doing the what I'm spending today, times 30 times 12. And what that means is, if I'm spending $100 a day, if I spend that in 30 days, that's $3,000 a month, because what happens is you overly focus on that number, wit and what you're actually doing subconsciously that you don't realize is you're actually making the assumption that you're going to spend this money and get zero sales bet. That's actually how you decide you're not deciding, oh, if I spent 3000, I get like 2900 and sales. And I have 50% margin that really only spent like $1,500 out of pocket. It's $1,500 loss. It's not a $3,000 loss. Blake Beus  11:26  Right. Also, you're not going to keep spending a loss day in and day out of the campaign is literally just turn it off, turn it off, turn it off, because it's not working. But you're right. We like mentally, consciously. We're making the decision based on zero sales. Yeah. Why? That's why the hell do we do that? Like, I know, that's what my brain I've done. My brain does. Greg Marshall  11:49  And I know and that's why you laugh. I said, what you do is you take the daily times 30 times 12. Right, because you understand exactly, yeah, Blake Beus  11:57  I mean, in the last one you asked me, you know, cuz we hit we hit about three grand a day in sales on not in sales in spend on mine. And, and that's when like, I got it, I got ridiculous. Yeah, Greg Marshall  12:10  it was? Well, of course, because that's that's, you know, you you shared the story of like, you know, you're spending $3,000 a day and what does that mean? You're not actually taking it day by day making assessments or even week by week, what you're doing is you're saying, well, 3000 times 30 times trial, that's a million dollars, Aspen, I don't have a million dollars, right? Well, of course, you know, because what we're doing is we're running ads to grow that and if it doesn't work, we turn it off. Yeah, there's always a way out. And that's, that's the thing, but we play this game of like, I'm going to spend this much. And then assume I'm actually going to get zero sales back. Yeah, which is totally false. Unless you're a store that has like just started, that's not going to happen. And if you've got long history of like, you're always selling $10,000 a month, I can make the argument you should be testing more aggressively, trying more, you know, more things harder with your ad spent to try to ramp that up. Because your goal really should be to spend as much as you can. But the reason why you're not is because everyone has a bad experience or something that causes them to not be able or okay to spend it. Right, right. And so I think in that last episode that we talked about, I shared an experience that I ran into which I almost can guarantee, you are also running into this without either acknowledging it or not realizing it's even there. I had experience in the past where I couldn't spend more than $50 a day and ad spent, like I literally, I couldn't get myself to press the button, to even at 51 I couldn't do it. It was literally like a mental block. Because I had an experience where when we were spending ad dollars, we were making great returns great profits, everything was going great. But the people that I was surrounded by did not feel comfortable. They had their own spent number that made them feel very nervous and anxious and scared and kind of go into survival mentality. And so what happened was, I would get on the phone after this and just get hammered about, well, why are we spending this money? Well, and then when sales go down, because we spend less well, why don't we get as many sales? Why do we stop spending that much and it was a constant roller coaster? And it's because there was emotion tied to that. And what what basically the reason I'm sharing that it's because it took me a long time to be able to kind of release the brakes to that because I understood the reason why I can't get past this level is because I need to be spending more but the reason why I can't spend more is because I've internalized as negative experience as truth as a can never get around that. So therefore I had this like this little block or ceiling that I put on myself. That shouldn't be there should be removed. But on the one actually key was older. So that's the experience of how most business owners that are running as are having some level of success, they could reach the number that they have in their mind, or that they're idolizing someone else for reaching, they could reach it right now, if they just removed that block of doing the daily span times 30 times 12 in their head, they could get rid of that, they will be able to reach the goal. And I can almost say this. If, if if I could convince a client, let's say that was just like, you know, I'm going to take a risk. And I would say, I'm going to be the analytical person, I'm going to not allow you to see what's going on in the ad account. Okay, at all. I'm just going to run it based off of the numbers you said you need to achieve. I'm going to block you from being able to see what's being spent, and I'm going to maintain that number and grow it. I bet you would grow way faster. Because you wouldn't know what's going on. You would just you would just be like, Oh, well, sales more sales are coming in. And then numbers are working out. Yeah. But because you can't see it. You will freak yourself out. You'll spook yourself by just looking at it. I go, Oh, man, what if this happens? And he started playing whatever game? Blake Beus  16:23  Right. I think there's a caveat to that. Because with you definitely. But I think and this is something we don't talk about a lot. I think a lot of business owners have tried hiring someone to help them with ads. I'm guessing you are oftentimes not the first person they've worked with. I never have. And and many times you get someone that talks a big game. I mean, a lot of agencies do this. They they say yeah, we can definitely do this. They run ads for six months, blow other money. And then they say, well, it didn't work out. Sorry. Why? Right. And, and so and so I wonder if that's and this we have not talked about the last one. But I think I think that might be a reason why a lot of people are like, I need to see the numbers. Yep. Because they've been burned in the past. I know, when I was doing agency web dev stuff. Literally every person I talked with had been burned by a developer that had promised them they would get this thing done on time. And they didn't. And they were all super hesitant to hire me because I was way more expensive that I was like, I'm expensive because I deliver. Yeah, you know Greg Marshall  17:30  exactly, exactly. That's, that's actually a good point. Because every conversation that I've had, I won't say every but 90 out of 100 they either ran ads themselves, or that they hired another person an agency or took a course all kind of the same, right? Where it's like, we can get you, you know, these unrealistic results. And that's the problem is, a lot of the issues that people run into, is there being sold on unrealistic objectives or goals. For example, you see the, you know, the course, if you if you do these hacks, you'll get a 10 return. So, this is a conversation that I actually have often happy brought this up, because we didn't talk about this unless there's benefits to this. So there's an assumption because of bad players out there. They, their programs say that you should be getting a 5678 10 return on adspend on your dollar. And not only that, when you scale up, it should be the same. Right? So the belief is, well, if I spent $10 a day, right, and I got a five return on adspend. Then if I spent $10,000 a day, I should be able to maintain that near five return on investment, which is absolutely false. Correct. But a lot of these programs they teach that they kind of leave that part out, like oh, when you scale up, you should get that. So a lot of the conversations I actually what have with people that are new that used to work with someone else, is they they like to say this? Well, yeah, if I if I spent 100 And I'm making, you know, and they'll throw a ridiculous number. If I spent 100 I'm making like $5,000 Then why would I not spend 1000 and make like 50 And I know that's because that's not gonna Blake Beus  19:33  happen. That's because that's not realistic. And whoever told Greg Marshall  19:37  you that's lying, right? 100% Instead, what you need to do is think more realistically, how because if you could do that, then why is it the person that taught you how to do that? Why are they not on the cover of force is the richest person in the world. Right? Because then all they'd have to do is just go, well, I'll just spend a billion dollars and then I'll be worth 500 billion Don't be rich and everybody, I'll be richer than all the people. Right? But that's not how it works. Right? So what you have to think about is do it more or less thinking, if I put $1 in how do I get like, you know, a 50% return on my dollar? Not, you know, 20,000% return, because that's just not that's not gonna happen. That's just greedy. Right? That's, that's, Blake Beus  20:25  and you, I mean, maybe you get lucky, you spent $1. And you make one sale, and that's worth $100. So your return on investment is 100x, or whatever. But when you scale that up, it doesn't work. Yeah, it doesn't work that way. Because you're reaching more people. It's just how it's mathematically how things scale in the ad world. But like we said, and all of all of you know, we'll say this, again, I'm sure. But the companies out there, you're seeing running ads all over the place, the big companies, right, they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on ads. And in many times, they don't have a direct way to monetize those ads, think of like Pepsi and Coke, right? Like, these are massive brands. Yep. All of their marketing campaigns, you still have to go into a grocery store, buy, buy some and buy some coke, or some Pepsi, right? I'm not seeing a Coke or Pepsi out on Facebook and clicking it and buying coke to get delivered to my let me get a 12 pack delivered straight to my house right away right away, you know, let's do a try and ask me what's the return on adspend, I don't calculate return on adspend the same way you do, right. And so if you're comparing a company that's making, you know, $10 million a year, and your company is making $100,000 a year and you want to get to those levels, and you want to maintain the exact same row as you have right now, versus then it's not going to happen, you've got to explore other channels, and some are going to be more profitable, you got to scoop up a much larger market, and probably launch some new product lines, or some new product offers or something like that. You've got to explore these other things. Greg Marshall  21:57  Well, and I think, you know, speaking with, you know, how to manage your your psychology when you're doing that, if you okay, here's here's why you become stressed out, is number one, the fear of losing money, right? But you're not thinking rationally that's only emotion. Like if you spent 100, and you only sell 80, he didn't really lose $100. Right, that but you think you did, yeah. Or your mind will trick you into believing that that's not actually what happened, you may have lost $30, right? 40 bucks, right? Because you've accounted for all the cost and all that. But your mind will make you panic and keep doing going into survival. Right? The other thing is, if you go into running ads with unrealistic expectations, you're actually causing your own anxiety. Because if I went on a weight loss plan and said, If I don't lose 100 pounds, and the less and the next 14 days, something is seriously wrong, then every day, I'm going to be stressed out to the max because my expectation is unrealistic. I'm not gonna lose 100 pounds for today. So therefore, I shouldn't be thinking about that. Right? Right. I should be thinking about just lose two pounds a week. Yeah, eventually I'll get there. Right, right, that's how you should be looking at your ad account is if I can get a 20 3040 50% return on my dollar. And I can do that over an extended period of time. That's how I'm actually going to become wealthier than if I try to hit homeruns. And go, I need to spend, you know, $100 and get a 1 million return back, it ain't it's just not going to happen. So that's what causes your own anxiety is your unrealistic expectation of what should be happening. And I don't blame anyone, because they just don't know. But my goal in this pocket is to explain to you how this actually works, right. And the way it works is you got to look at your ads as a way to get decent returns on the front end. So on the back end, your email marketing and your new product launches and all that can make you all of the profit because you've acquired those customers. Right? Right. If you look at it that way, you would be a lot more aggressive with your advertising versus thinking, my advertising suppose if I put $1 in, I'm going to get $10 back for ever at unlimited spend scale. Right, right. Blake Beus  24:19  Yeah, so it's, I mean, we we talked about this in the last one but essentially two things. I think this episode should be named Zen in the art of advertising because it really is this this mental game and people talk about a mental mind shift whatever a lot, but I feel like a lot of the Guru's kind of missed that. Like, everybody has some sort of hang ups when it comes to running a business running ads, whatever. And this kind of exposes those things. And so the best media buyer is one that's also a good, a good therapist, and you know, so hat make sure you have those realistic expectations, make sure you're you're not doing something to try to just get rich and the next 30 days, the the courses and the people telling you that that's that's what they can help you do. It's it's a statistical anomaly, right? Like, that's not realistic the people that have the good businesses, the successful businesses that are working long term are those that grew steadily, slowly made smart decisions and kept doing what was working. Yep. And didn't just throw that out the window to manage their own anxieties to try to start something new. To bring us back to kind of our initial topic, I really do feel like a lot of people, if you're getting sick of running, selling the same coffee mug, even those make you so much money as a business owner, you delegate that out, delegate that off have, have your media buyer or your other team members work on that. And you work together putting another offer, whether that's a new product, whether that's a companion product, or maybe that's some sort of bundle, we've talked about bundles, we love bundle, yes, yes, they're the best. But come up with some cool, unique, interesting angle to then say, okay, media buyer, Greg, here's this new bundle I've worked with, you know, I've reached out to a lot of my customers, I feel like this is going to be the next kind of interesting combination to put things together or interesting companion product or whatever, let's test this while also keeping all that stuff running, because you've already got that stuff figured out. Yeah, well, we'll leave that going. And that's how you scale up a business, right? With stability, maintaining stability, without the fluctuations and, and into the long term, you know, kind of success? Greg Marshall  26:36  Well, and the thing, if I can emphasize anything, there is a benefit of delegating as well is you can protect yourself from yourself. Because the worst thing you can do, when especially when running ads, but same in business and everything, you never make your best decisions at your highest emotional peaks. Right? You actually make terrible decisions, the more emotionally stimulated you are, right, because you're no longer thinking rationally, right? And you go into survival instincts. And so one of the things that, you know, I'm thinking of a couple scenarios that I've run into where things are working really well. But because we've surpassed that, like threshold, that daily budget span, threshold, the stories and falseness that we tell each other, while this happens to get out of it, just because we feel uncomfortable, we'll start manufacturing stories. This isn't profitable anymore, even though the numbers are showing that it is, it's just that you're trying to escape the discomfort of doing something you're not used to. Right, and you're going to the next level. So what we do is we come up with a story I like we try to nitpick it to say it's not working, but not really because any data showing that it's only because I feel very uncomfortable, I want to get out of this. Right, right. And I want to go back to where we were, where we can, you know, where I felt comfortable. Blake Beus  28:03  But then I'm also not comfortable with how with with what our revenue numbers were right? So so there's this push and pull. And that's why the conversation needs to be had. And, and and I've said this before, I'll say it again, I'll always say it. I'm a big fan of therapy, there's occupational therapists out there that actually help deal specifically with professionals in the work environment, and how to manage some of these uncomfortable things. I think that's fantastic, too, to pursue that and explore those options as well. But, Greg, I think we should wrap this one up. And unless you had anything final you had to Greg Marshall  28:40  say no really what I would say the final message, work on your emotional you know, your emotional intelligence, I guess, or focusing on how to manage your emotions, and be truthful to yourself when you're making decisions on if you want to grow, you're gonna have to do things outside your comfort zone and you will feel discomfort. So you have to do everything in your power to fight against the desire to go back to your comfort zone. Whatever it takes to not do that if you want to keep growing and so with that final statement if you want a free therapy session go to Greg Marshall Dotco book a free call with me But all jokes aside if you need help growing your business and you're not happy exactly where you're at and you'd like to grow it in a business minded mindset go ahead and book a call me Blake Beus  29:32  late How to Get a hold he just go to Blake Beus calm I've got a membership on there where I basically help coach train people with social media marketing specifically like organic marketing. But I do answer questions on ads when those pop up. And or you can just reach out to me contact me and we can have a chat on whatever I just like chatting with people. Yeah. All right. We'll talk to you guys later. Bye. See ya  

Wednesday Dec 22, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes       Transcript   Blake Beus  0:00  Okay, we are live. Greg, I want to start off first and foremost, asking you about you. You said you had some some, some feedback, some results based on what we talked about, in our last episode about success signals, soft signals. I can't remember all of them. But Greg Marshall  0:18  well, basically, it was an idea of remember, and I'm gonna make sure I give them credit. Depeche. Yes. And I don't know how to say his last name correctly, man, Dahlia Blake Beus  0:26  maendeleo. I think I think that's what it is. Yeah. Greg Marshall  0:29  But basically, he was talking about a concept that I've thought of before and have tried and had success with. But everywhere you go, and look, you're told to not do right, which is, if you're not getting enough conversion events, which Facebook says you need to get 50 or more, then in a week, in a week. They, they're maybe you should optimize for the next highest step that's closest to what you want. And in a lot of cases, you know, the Facebook, you know, gurus or experts will say, Never optimize for those, because that's just poor quality traffic. But in my experience, I've never had that really happen. It's more so of it seems to give me better results when I'm optimizing for softer conversions if I'm not getting enough of like, let's say the purchase version in that week. Blake Beus  1:22  Yeah. Well, and we even talked about optimizing simultaneously. Yes. For softer conversion, yes. The the the purchase conversion, the add to cart conversion, and the view cart conversion, at the same time with different campaigns. Greg Marshall  1:38  Yep. And one of the campaigns the the account that I'm utilizing it on right now, in fact, that day that we implemented it, they actually did end up getting, what is it, we spent 50 and got $200 back, and I optimized for each event, the day that we implement it, which was kind of interesting, because then two days later, they almost repeated not to $200, they got to about like 170, or whatever, when previously on that particular like product that they're trying to push, we're spending 40 $50 a day and getting virtually I mean, just maybe a couple add to carts here and there, and no sales, Blake Beus  2:18  really, so a huge increase in ROI from zero to 200. Correct. And I'm assuming you're only spending $50 a day because you're testing strategies to before you ramp it up. Greg Marshall  2:29  Correct? Correct. So obviously, we don't want to go there, you know, dropping three, four hours a day on unproven right, you know, tests, right. And so then the another account that I've launched is with, they also so they stopped advertising for like about a month, which we all know, when you do that. It's almost like you have to like revamp your ad account. So what we did was we optimize for add to cart, and now simultaneously optimizing for purchase. Now previously, we launched a campaign just for purchase, and was getting $90 cost per purchase, whatever very expensive for the for the product, because it's the, the average order value is only 35. Okay, so Blake Beus  3:12  now I need to look at cost per purchase is not is terrible, that's not sustainable. Greg Marshall  3:17  So what we did was then I used the method of RM optimize for add to cart and then I'm going to go ahead and simultaneously once we get enough Add to Cart, duplicate the ad set, keep both of them running side by side and optimize the next one for purchase. And lo and behold, that day we got a $20 cost per purchase, the very day that we launched those simultaneous account wide, right? Because account why? Because Facebook's not going to give you this blended cost per purchase or if you're running multiple campaigns, correct. They're only going to give you a cost per purchase on each campaign. Correct? Correct. And so basically by duplicating that, that that goes against what they say, you know, remember we've I don't know, we've talked to this ad nauseum about audience overlap. Yes. And how real is that? Actually? Because what by duplicating? I'm literally targeting exact same audience. Yeah. And the first example I gave you same thing, the exact same eyes, it's one interest, the same interest on every single optimization. So I did not change audiences, nothing. The audiences are exactly the same, same. I'm just changing the conversion optimization event. Blake Beus  4:29  Okay. And then the conversion optimization is a campaign level set. Correct. So you have three campaigns? Yes. All targeting the same audience. Yep. One is optimized for for purchase Correct. One, the optimization objective is Add to cart, and one is view content. And if you're not familiar with view content, that's essentially a page load. Yep. For but it's a conversion of a page load. Well, and Greg Marshall  4:54  what's interesting about running those simultaneously is the more I'm talking about There's more. There's another ad account. So I'm actually doing the same thing with, we're optimizing for purchase, because they have enough purchase data for all we've done is duplicate the same audience look alike. 2554 year old female, three different times with different products. There's literally no increase in CPM. There's no increase in anything. But they're all getting purchases. Interest, right. And so I think, basically, this is too early to tell, right? It's only what it was seven days. So yeah, it's still early. But it's showing signs that there is some merit to optimizing for even soft conversions, and that it can help your entire account, even some of the campaigns that you're running that are not optimized for that highest level, right? Yeah, Blake Beus  5:51  it will. And this makes me realize, like, I'm not entirely surprised by this. I mean, sometimes it's hard to come up with, with an idea or concept like this, you need the idea to kind of be Spark, which is why we're here talking about it. But when we take a step back and look at it, if you understand how AI doing finger quotes, AI works as we don't true AI doesn't exist. It's machine learning. Yep. But how that works. And understand that there are these signals that it takes to identify the success or failure of things. It's just a whole bunch of like, if then statements. But if you understand how that works, from a high level, you can then realize, oh, okay, this totally makes sense. We just need to keep sending positive signals that I helped kind of people self identify to the algorithm that they're interested. And then the algorithm can go out and find more people with those similar traits. Yep. And it just makes a ton of sense. Feed Greg Marshall  6:51  it a good diet. Yeah. You Blake Beus  6:52  feed it a good day. Yeah. We talked about nutrition. Right? Not just, you know, you're not just feeding it dessert all the purchase conversion. Yes, sir. Right. You're feeding it a whole Greg Marshall  7:02  every course. Yeah. Vegetables. Yeah, carbohydrates. So I think it's, it's, it's interesting, though, I definitely would like to follow, I want to keep following up with this, I think maybe give you a small update every week to, to kind of maybe challenge some of these things that are given to us. Because another thing that I'm testing, because of this previous seven day test, is what happens if you have multiple conversions just within a single campaign. That's in a CBO. So campaign budget optimization. Because from what Depeche was saying, he says that, when you have set under CBO, the campaign keeps all the learning. So even if you turn off and duplicate new ad sets, the campaign itself was holding all of that data. So then with that being said, you could use this same formula, and keep duplicating ad sets, and build more and more data much quicker, and expand the size of your audiences over time. Because you can start with a laser targeted audience, duplicate it, and then put a bigger odds and a bigger audience. And hypothetically, if campaign budget optimization holds all those optimizations in there, and all the learnings, when you start to expand the broader, broader audiences, it should understand now who exactly we're going after. So you can find more of those people. I broader scale. So that's my next test is to actually see if there's merit to that. And what I'm going to test against it is, could you do the same at with ad set level, budgeting, keeping all the assets within the same campaign to really see if there's that big of a difference? Blake Beus  8:53  Right? And if you do that you can only have one objective per campaign, even with a CBO? Correct? Correct. Correct. Right. Right. Okay. So you're basically layering, ever expanding audiences in the CBO setup, right? Because the data learning is, is housed under the campaign umbrella. That'll be interesting, allegedly, right? Like a legit legit, like a court of law in here. Greg Marshall  9:21  But that's, that's kind of what I think, would be an interesting test to learn. Because if you could do that way, then you'd be able to systematically scale campaigns, and that matter, versus maybe more of like, chaotic manner of like, I think this is gonna work or maybe not right, and you can come up with a system until Facebook changes again, which will be a couple of weeks. Yeah. So that's how we cracked the code with a new code. Blake Beus  9:52  Well, I'm interested to see how this plays out. And I'm definitely going to be testing out some of these things on my own products and funnels. In the near future for sure. Well, I Greg Marshall  10:03  think that should segue us into the topic because these are all technical stuff right? You know messing with machine learning things duplicating answers and all that. But marketing never really changes from like, human behavior stamp. Yeah. And so you had a topic that you wanted to go over which I am excited to go into, which is what did you call ethical clickbait? Blake Beus  10:28  Clickbait ethical quick, right. This is actually one of my favorite subjects. Headlines are one of the most fascinating things for me too. I mean, I know this sounds nerdy and dorky but I love when you start looking at headlines and start looking and realizing that someone somewhere for a good headline someone somewhere stood over that headline for for way longer than you think a person should up and and and came up with something that that made you click on and I fall for this stuff all the time. I need to I have a really good eye at not falling for the dumb clickbait I'm like yeah, absolutely. Especially news story. Yes. Clickbait I'm out of that most of the time Yeah. If if a news story says something like so and so may be wanting yada yada yada I'm out I'm not clicking on me maybes especially if it's like a political figure or something. I'm like, I want I want solid facts. But when it comes to marketing materials or or something like that, or or YouTube video Yeah, I'm, I love it. I love it. And this whole topic was was sparked by by a video that I shared with Greg Yeah. And the YouTube channel is Veritasium it's a Science Channel. I do science Sunday with my kids and we watch science YouTube videos in the morning. And this is one of our channels. And he has one on on clickbait Yeah, and he talks about it and it's it's a great video. I can't remember what the title of that video is. But it got me thinking about how how you can actually have ethical clickbait that does trigger that part of our brain and curiosity gets us curious, gets us interested gets us to click on that link. But then also delivers on what the curiosity you know, whatever piqued the curiosity, and that's what I would consider, you know, ethical clickbait the kind of clickbait that everyone hates is the is the clickbait that's its it tease is that something grand and big or curious or scandalous? And then when you click on it, it's a non story. It's a non issue later. It's unrelated. And then and then moves on. Yeah, I mean, you see, you see it all the time, I saw one for a political scandal. And I had pictures of two politicians. One of them is a politician from my state that I'm not too thrilled with. Yeah, all the time. And so I clicked on the article. And it was the scandalous headline. Yeah, I read the article and has one sentence about my sander. And it was actually something that he did good. Yeah, to oppose the the, the the scandalous thing. And but it wasn't like a super great thing, either. It was kind of just a half measure effort. And I was so disappointed that I feel Yeah. Greg Marshall  13:22  Every once in a while you get one of those quickly, because you know, I'm susceptible like anyone else. But everyone's like, Oh, man, I clicked What a waste. I just wasted my time thinking that this is gonna be about something totally, you know, different or unrelated. So I think, but, you know, so let's talk about why headlines are important. Blake Beus  13:42  Okay, so headlines are important, because they're literally the first thing that people read or look at it. I mean, if you have an ad, some the term headline gets a little bit mushy. When you have like an ad in Facebook, cuz you have the image, you can have text in the image. So your headline is technically probably the text in the image, not the text underneath the image. But if you don't have text in the image, the headline is probably either your first sentence in your ad copy, or the the text underneath the image. So it's basically the text that people see first. Yep. Is is going to be what we would consider a headline right now. So at least we have that defined. Now, if we're talking about ethical clickbait it, it needs to be something that builds curiosity, when I first started running ads, my ad copy was was so bad. Yeah, it was terrible. And it would be something like I've written my ticket. It would be something that focused solely just on the features of whatever I was selling. Right. So So let's see, when I when I launch my social media content plan. At first it was something like social media calendar. Yeah. You know, and that was my headline. Yep. And I'm like, I think thought it was gonna be awesome. Yeah, we've all been there. It wasn't, it wasn't. So you need to have something that piques curiosity. And honestly, there are books out there that cover this subject subject in tons of depth. But let's, let's just talk about a few commonalities that I think both you and I could see. And I don't have a formula for this. But I've seen some formulas that I think work, not not formulas, I've seen some things that work well that you could probably use. The first thing I would say is, you absolutely need to have an understanding about two things about your customer, what they actually want. And what they actually are afraid of. Yep. Right. So their, their hopes and dreams. Yep. And their their fears and insecurities, essentially. And you know, you Greg Marshall  15:49  could also add to that to the second one, hate? Yes, that's because it's a powerful emotion. Blake Beus  15:56  Yes, it is. It is. And if you have a good understanding of those things, then your headline can be centered around this the concept of push and pull, right? We're going to pull them towards their hopes and dreams through our product or service, or we're going to push them away from their fears, insecurities and hates because of our product. Yep. And so that would be kind of the the first thing. So with the social media content plan, I shifted my headline to and this worked way better to be something along the lines of never, never stare at a blank screen again, when publishing your social media account, something along those lines. I mean, it was probably more juicy than that. But, but yeah, so Greg, tell me, I mean, what are you thinking? Are some of the good things that give you a good a good headline? Greg Marshall  16:45  Yeah, I think anything that draws big emotion, like you said postpone emotion and is very like polarizing, ooh, polarizing. Yes, that's absent. That's. So for example, if you have a love or a hate of something, then the headline by itself should be able to stir that emotion. Right. So it should trigger it in some way. For example, we all love Donald Trump. Right? Love. Blake Beus  17:18  He's a polarizing person, Greg Marshall  17:20  right? But they think about what is happening. I said, we all love Donald Trump, it becomes as uncomfortable. Yeah, because what it does is like, Donald Trump is a polarizing figure. And it draws big emotion on either side. And the way to get one side or the other to pay attention is actually like, use his name, and then say the opposite of the belief of the person watching it. So like Donald Trump does is the best, you know, president to ever, you know, be elected. And that's going to trigger one side, right? Blake Beus  17:58  And why would that trigger the most? Greg Marshall  18:00  I think it'll trigger more on bullet don't like that. Don't like him. So Blake Beus  18:03  if you wanted someone to click on that headline that did not like Donald Trump, you would use the headline, Donald Trump is the best president Correct? Here's why. Greg Marshall  18:16  Correct? Because what that does this like, there is no way that is possible, I have to see what kind of, you know, lie or made up thing that they're gonna say, and then I want to comment on it, which starts triggering a whole bunch of other things, right. And vice versa, you know, you would do it the other side. And so, to me, he's like the perfect sound because he is like the definition of Blake Beus  18:39  polarizing no, and no one I know. And I know people that love him, and I know no one I know. Phil's lukewarm. Yeah, Donald, like he's a he's okay, or whatever. Yep. I don't know a single person like that. I only know people that love him or hate him. Correct. And that's what we mean polarizing and you can do the same thing with your product or service. Something along along those lines you can one strategy I've seen a lot of people do is they'll they'll take down like a common belief share about a particular thing. And then they'll attack that. That common belief like it could be something if I wanted to target if I wanted to trigger advertisers Sure. I could say something I could say something along the lines of Facebook ads are dead, you should not use them moving this day forward. And I will get every advertiser to click on that link. Now I need to if to make this ethical click I need to be free. I need to like deliver on that which I don't think I could deliver on that unless unless I had some serious proof about a specific use case in a specific industry where Facebook ads just completely dropped the ball and fails. Then you could probably use a headline like that and still make it ethical clickbait Greg Marshall  19:51  well, and one thing that you just brought up I remember reading a book on Steve Jobs, and how he like prepared his speeches. I bought this book years ago, because I had to give a speech and I was like, Man, I, you know, I need a few pointers on how to position. And that was like the one that the only one that like made sense, but one of the things that he mentioned, is a good headline would actually be creating an enemy. Okay. And then this is what he did all the time with Microsoft. So he would build up the enemy, the story of Microsoft is bad. And we're good. Yeah. Right. And by creating headlines that maybe create an enemy, that's also very powerful as far as getting people to click it, because you're speaking to your base, essentially. Right, right. And that's another way I think of getting a headline to work really well, is to very powerfully talk about a subject that people feel attached to, and then prove it by showing the other side is wrong. Right? You see this in politics? Yes, with how they communicate about the left or the right or this. That's a good, it's a good thing to learn. If you're trying to get someone to consume something, your message is, is how do I speak to the base, where they're very attached to it, and then create an enemy of how they're trying to take this away from us? Oh, yeah, that's, that's like a very powerful, you know, click Beatty headline, is to be able to communicate that in a concise way. Blake Beus  21:35  I think you just summarized American politics 100. Because I do feel like so much effort is put into turning, you know, the other side into the enemy, therefore, vote for me, because they're going to screw up everything. Regardless of what side you're on. That's the exact same message, I feel like, you know, is said, and we probably see that in a bunch of other ways in advertising, but because it's not politics, yep. We, we, we see it and we kind of don't think about what's actually, what's actually, Greg Marshall  22:11  here's a question I have for you. Yeah. Since you're, you're a computer guy. Yeah. Right. So which computers better? Mac or Apple? Blake Beus  22:21  Mac or apple? I mean, Windows Greg Marshall  22:23  or Windows? Are or Apple windows? Or? Absolutely, that shows you how much I'm not. Which was better? Blake Beus  22:32  So I'm, for me, it depends. And I'm an I'm an IT depends kind of guy. I'm not a super, super passionate about that argument, like some people are Yep. I personally use Mac computers. But I dislike everything else about the Apple ecosystem. I don't like I don't like iPhones. I don't like the air pods. I don't like iPads. I don't like any of those other things. But I do like Apple computers. So I'm a little bit of an anomaly. But most people do have that question. And they're going to have a very strong opinion, it's going to be Windows or it's going to be apple. And usually, if it's a Windows guy, the windows person gonna see well, Apple, Apple is they just try to control you with everything and try to force you to use everything in their ecosystem and all of that, whereas Windows is much more open. And I can do kind of whatever I want on it. And then you get the Linux people and they're just out in left field. Those guys are right, those guys are deep, and I fit in that category A lot of the times but the apple people will will talk about the sleek design, and the the new processor that's super fast, which it totally is, and all of these, all of these different things. But a lot of people are very passionate about that subject. Greg Marshall  23:39  Well, I asked that question, because you're considered lukewarm. And look how many examples you just gave. Yeah. Microsoft is better than this. Apple is better than Linux better. Yeah. And those might even be all related. I don't know. But that's, that's the definition of like, if you're lukewarm, if you're trying to talk to people that are big time windows or big time Mac, or then you can basically kind of play off that and build the enemy on the other side. Right? Yeah. And that's, that's the whole point of like, the headline is, you almost have you almost have to do that, in order to spark someone's attention or grab, you know, grab their attention and interest. Because if not, it's just it's not going to be enough for them to go, I need to read this, I need to watch this. I need to do this. Blake Beus  24:29  Right. Right. Which leads me into the next point that I wanted to bring out. And this is where a lot of people go wrong. And this is where I went wrong for so long with headlines. And I see this all the time. But but but when you ask most people, what's the objective of the headline? Why are you writing this ad? Why do you have this image? Why do you have this headline? What are you trying to get people to do? And most people will say, Well, I want to get them to buy my product. Sure that's wrong. The purpose of the headlines too far too far down the road. The the the objective of your ad, your ad, copy your ad image, your ad video and your headline, specifically your headline is to get them to take the next step in your sales cycle, the next step in your customer journey and for an ad that is to click Greg Marshall  25:15  Yep, that's it. Blake Beus  25:15  That's the the whole point of all of those things is to get someone to click. Yep. And then and then the the the objective of your sales page is to get them to add it to the cart not to sell yet. Yep, add it to the cart. Right. And here's another thing a lot of people fail to realize, in in any sort of sales journey for a customer, you have multiple headlines. You have a headline on your ads. Yeah, you probably multiple ads at the same time. You have a headline on your sales page or your product page. You have a headline in your cart. People don't realize this, that headline in your cart matters. And then you have a headline in the card processing page. Yeah. Right. And all those headlines need to be considered at each step of that process, to get people to move to the next step. Yep. Right. And, you know, your your headline on your cart page could be very, very simple and very generic, because you don't always know what cart what items are in the cart. But your headline could be something very simple, like reassuring them. Yeah, right. 30 day 30 day guarantee simple checkout process, something like that, right? 100% secure, yep, whatever could be reassuring, or it just just whatever to remove any sort of final objections someone might have. But that headline also counts. Yes. And it matters. And it needs to be looked at. Well, headline, also, one word trigger. Greg Marshall  26:49  What the headline needs to do is trigger something. Yeah. Right. And so whether that emotion and it's triggered the emotions, whether that emotion is starting from, you know, this is outrageous, all the way to, you know, let's say they're going to go purchase that the car page, this is safe. Right? Right. So you're trying to move them on an emotional roller coaster, essentially with headlines. Yep. is communicating things in the most concise and powerful way to cause people to act? Right. And that's, that's what the headlines are all about. And I feel like some of the best ones I see. They use emotional words in them as well. That's like another tendency I tend to see is in the headline, it'll have some level of emotion. And the words, yeah, right. whether, you know, for me, some of the YouTube stuff that I see, that seems to work really well, is like using words like blasts, or, you know, things that that that talk about, like, essentially overreacting, if I were to make like one simple way of saying something that causes an overreaction, right is the type of word that tends to be, you know, in the headline and a marker that I see that uses this is the that Alex, rosy guy. On YouTube, he's really good because his head, I can tell he spends a lot of times headlines because he'll say, like, how I figured out the Starbucks business model, how maybe $100 million or something, right? Yeah. Things like that. Which say, like, that almost makes you say that's impossible. Clicked. That's impossible. This this guy's full of shit. There's no way that he did. But you know, he has done it, but he's using the headlines in a specific way. Yeah, to make you feel a certain way to click it. Alright. Blake Beus  28:40  Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So before we wrap this up, I wanted to give people a couple of practical strategies that they could start using today. And my number one tip is I don't know, if you use Google Drive, or whatever, some sort of central way. My favorite thing that I do is I screenshot headlines and thumbnails and ads, and I put them in a folder called add inspiration. So whenever I come across one, while I'm browsing Facebook, or something like that, or YouTube or whatever, I screenshot it, and I put it in there and I think, oftentimes are called swipe files or whatever. But I think nearly everybody, if they're interested in advertising and marketing, they need to be doing that. Yeah. Even if you schedule some time. So you schedule 10 or 15 minutes to go look it up, get headlines. The other thing you can do is Facebook. Facebook has their ads library. And a lot of people don't know about this, but I think it's just or something like that. You can Google it, to find it. But you can go in there and type in any advertisers name and it'll pull up the ads that they're currently running. Yep. So I got a huge kick out of this during the 2020 election. because you can go look at that. And if it's a political ad, they will also publish how much money they spent. Yeah. So that was interesting to see how much money the campaigns are spent because they know which one is worse. I mean, I'll tell you both campaigns spent probably a little bit over $200 million on Facebook alone. Yeah, Facebook ads alone, which Greg Marshall  30:22  is insane. And that's that's not including I saw a ton of YouTube. Blake Beus  30:27  Oh, yeah. YouTube. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So anyway, but political ads. So if you think about this, if they're spending $200 million on Facebook alone, they are clearly spending a lot of money on the nation's best copywriters for ads, right. And the NES the nation's best video people for every video so that so when when you have a presidential campaign, go, you know, in the United States, wherever you go look at those ads, because they are structured so perfectly to to rise, emotion, and then screenshot the ones you think you can adopt the principle behind what they're doing to your products or services, and put those in your ad swipe. Greg Marshall  31:10  Yeah. So I think that's a great tip as far as learning from the best because love him or hate him. Politicians, political campaigns, they are the best in the world, at coming up with direct response. I mean, you name it direct response, branding, public relations, they got the best of the best. And so that's a great way to learn. How are they positioning themselves on the products to drive a lot of emotion, because if you notice, the emotional, I guess, feeling of at least here in America, right now is nowhere near what it is around election time, no matter who's running, it doesn't matter who's running, it's always the same when it starts getting closer and closer, you can almost you know, you could feel the tension in the air. It's, I hate this guy hate that guy. And so I just feel like, it's a great tip to learn powerful headlines, how to structure them, and how to like effectively use them in your business, because you can use those same concepts in virtually any business, right create anatomy, create your, your, you know, your your base of users create, you know, a headline that really like hooks the person in and in the most concise way possible. And it should make them feel a very overreacting emotion in order for them to click it. If you get that that's when you know you're doing it right. And so when you talk about your swipe file, or your ad inspiration, you take a look at some of those if you if you notice the ones that tend to do really well, if you show them to other people or talk about what they're doing, the general response from the people you show it to is I hate that ad, or I can't stand when people do this. Yeah. Or when they market to me like this, that typically means is working. Because there's a huge emotion attached to it. Yeah, for example, Tai Lopez, right. Most people, I mean, he doesn't run as many ads anymore, like on Facebook, but like you as someone five years ago, what do you think of Tai Lopez, it was almost the same as Donald Trump. Like, oh my goodness, this guy, he's flashing this and he's doing that I can't stand it. He's a Ferrari. And, you know, vote and on and on and on. But he also is highly effective, because he's, it's almost like you have to have the guts to drive that kind of emotion. Right? Right. Because that does take you do have to have a stomach for that. And I do feel like people like Blake Beus  33:45  Tai Lopez really, is a little bit too far. It's on that last line of clickbait because he's really promising some pretty crazy stuff. But you can use those principles and shift it so that you so that it works for you. And then it becomes ethical and for raining that bad. Because yeah, I get it like, yeah, Tai Lopez, definitely, he's flashing cash all over the place and basically, very heavily implying that if you follow what he's doing, you'll, you'll be fine. You can be flashing this kind of cash to all your friends. And that's just not realistic. Now, if you're selling something, you know, like T shirts or whatever, you can use the same principles of envy of emotional poll, whatever, to to sell a t shirt, and there's less of an ethical correct, you know, dilemma there because you're not promising by this t shirt, and you're going to be flashing cash to all your friends. More like buy this t shirt and your friends are gonna laugh and think you're like the cool person or you statement or whatever. You're still drawing On that same principle, but you haven't crossed the line over into the unethical side. Yes. of clickbait. Greg Marshall  35:06  Yeah. So I think with that being said, you know, I think, work on your headlines focus heavily on improving them and drawing more emotion. There's like, if there was a hack, it would be focus all of your effort on driving the motion. Yeah. Right. So, with that being said, Blake, how do people get ahold of you? Blake Beus  35:31  I'll just go to Blake calm. I got all the contact information on there. Greg Marshall  35:34  And if you need to get ahold of me, go to Greg And if you want to book a call, feel free to enter your information and I'll reach out and then Blake Blake Beus  35:46  Yeah, you can reach out to me on there and we can I have a membership where I help people with social media marketing strategies. That's super fun. Oh, that membership, a lot of people love it that are in there and you can sign up on there. It's called SM three. And in that and then you can contact me on my website. So we'll talk to you guys later. All right. See you Bye.  

Wednesday Dec 15, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript         Greg Marshall  0:00  Let's talk about right before we always we almost get our topics from our pre talk, basically before we hit record, so they were talking about algorithms and bundles, and you know, just kind of do things differently. So let's kind of first start off with, let's actually talk about the bundles that you're telling him with Gary Vee. Oh, okay. Let's actually start with that. Okay. I think that that's super important, because there's a huge lesson and what he did, which was, he made an unbelievable unique, exclusive offer to accomplish a certain goal. Now go ahead and share with us. Yeah, that was Blake Beus  0:40  Yeah, so so if you don't know who Gary Vee is, you're living under a rock, but that's okay. It's fine. He's He's a social media guy. He's got a bunch of books and things like that. He's got a new book launching that I honestly don't even know the name of the book. It's like 1212 and a half something. Yeah, and has something to do with business and marketing. But I've seen a lot of news articles talking about how Gary Vee sold a million dollars worth of his books book in 24 hours, because he offered an NFT to two people that that bought the book. And if you're not familiar with an NFT, not to go to off in the deep end, but it's basically a digital asset. It could be a video or an image or something like that, and your ownership is is granted through blockchain technology. And there's several different marketplaces out there. And I don't want to dive in deep to the technicalities of that, but that's essentially what it is. But it's a digital good. And so what how he structured his offer is if you you bought 12 books, you he would give you one of his new NF T's, which I think is literally just an image. Yeah, I mean, I think I think that's all it is. NFT is you would get one of these NF T's for free and your ownership would be verified through again the blockchain. So it's like an image plus this like blockchain thing. And it's a buzz buzz phrase. So but I've seen a ton of people just gush over Gary Vee for for using a new way to use NF T's and yada yada, yada, yada, but, but for me, I don't feel like that was the magic of the offer. And I feel like the magic of the offer was, he sat down and thought, I want to sell more books. But people usually only buy one book at a time. Like how many how many times? Have you bought more than one of the exact same book Greg like never I never do. I never never I mean, maybe maybe I'll buy an extra a year later and give it to someone Greg Marshall  2:34  as a gift. Or I'll do maybe an audio that yeah, full extent. That's the full Blake Beus  2:39  extent, right. And that's what that's how most people consume books because their books, Gary Vee came up with a plan to get the same person to buy not one or two or three books, but 12 at a time, by giving them something, this digital asset that literally costs him nothing to give them. Yep. That's the magic to me. And I feel like that magic can happen to many, many, many other businesses without having to dive into the NFT space, because that can be kind of overwhelming for some people or whatever. But I thought that was fascinating. Like, yeah, I Greg Marshall  3:16  think, kind of the uniqueness of that offer is it's obviously well thought, as far as wanting to hit the number one book selling lists, right, knowing the knowing the rules of the game. Yeah, right. That's what I think he's very good at is dissecting the rules of the game, and then maximizing his opportunities within those rules, right. So number one, he's gonna sell even more books, because not only did he do pre order of 12 books at a time, right, which gets him a million copies. But those numbers will also impact his, you know, near Times bestseller list, which will place him number one, in all the categories that, you know, he's looking to be in front of which gives them even better distribution. So that selling of 12 books, is not only 12 books, but it's also premium placements. Yeah. On all of the distribution centers to buy more of his book. Yeah. And grow his following even bigger. And so it's, it's a genius move genius. And it's something that I think what Gary Vee does better than I believe anyone on the planet is, he has the guts to do things that people won't do, right, like most people will not even think about. Let me go ahead and offer 12 books. Right. So to one customer, right? Blake Beus  4:41  I mean, many, many e commerce companies when they think of bundling offers, they think of Alright, if someone's buying a t shirt or a mug or something, let's get them to buy maybe a pair of shorts or something else with it. When something like this, Gary said, what kind of get him to buy 12 Yep, right 12 have the exact same thing. Is that Is that doable? And now I'm thinking, Okay, so for any e commerce clients or whatever, I'm thinking, why why have we been thinking so small? Why not think way bigger? And say, Yes, you bought this t shirt for 25 bucks. Do you want 10 of them? Greg Marshall  5:18  Yeah, why not? Blake Beus  5:19  Why not is no rule 10 of them. And And here's 10 of them. And you get this free thing. I think the other magic was, the only way to get that free thing was to buy the bundle as well. You couldn't buy the NFT in the marketplace or anything. You had to get 12 books Greg Marshall  5:41  and to get it not only that, it's not only a unique offer, but by doing it that way, it also creates urgency. Yeah. Because then, you know, this is a scarce deal. And it could be going away soon. Yeah, therefore, I must do it now, which is every marketers goal and dream is to get you to buy now. Right? Not next week. Right buy right now. And so it's a great way to position an offer to be extremely impulsive. And to create a buying frenzy. Yeah. Is to make that offer that unique so that I'm happy brought that up this morning about because that that can you can learn a lot from that. Right and your own business. Yeah. Well, Blake Beus  6:22  and I think I think I mean, let's talk about some specifics on how a non Gary Vee business because let's be honest, like, yeah, I don't think Gary Vee listens to this podcast. But for your for your business. You know, you you the listener? Well, there's lots of different ways you could apply this, Greg, Greg, what are you thinking like for maybe an E commerce business? And maybe even a service base? Sure. digital product business? What do you think? Greg Marshall  6:48  I mean, I think you could probably just pack is like, whatever it is that you have it? I mean, it kind of makes sense, right? I mean, I think of my own purchases, there is a specific type of shirt that I have that I actually do own 12 or 13. No, yeah. And if if and it's it's actually a workout shirt. It's like a very specific kind that I like, it's the same color is the same people probably think I'm wearing the same shirt every day. But it's if this company were to offer me buy 15 shirts for this price. And it's the same exact shirt. I would do it. Yeah. Right. And so I can even give you like Blake Beus  7:24  a since it's a workout shirt that can give you something for free. Yeah. As part of that that's related to working out. Yeah. And whatever that whether that's I don't know, a headband, or hat or some shorts. Yeah. Or socks or something. Or maybe even something crazy. Like some earbuds. Yeah. Greg Marshall  7:43  I mean, but that would first that would solidify the deal. Yeah, that would be like, I have to buy it now. Yeah. But that's what I'm thinking like, you know, if you got like E commerce, business, e commerce stores sell T shirts, or maybe jewelry products. I'm like that, really thinking about? Well, how could you get? How could you create the messaging that the person when they go to purchase? Feels like, I feel so strongly about this. I like this product so much that not only will I buy one for myself, but even possibly for all my friends and family. Yeah, right. That's a great way to package it. And there's no better way to authority interested in the product, then they might be interested in more of that same product. Yeah. Blake Beus  8:24  Right. Yeah. And I think I think the incentive needs to be unique, probably even something that the buyer has not heard of. Yeah. Because everybody's heard of, you know, free shipping on orders, or by one guy, like everybody's heard of those things. And so you want it to be something that's, that's different and unique. Greg Marshall  8:44  I actually, you know, what, sorry to cut you off. Because I don't want to forget, when you ask this, I actually did give a client an idea of this, he sells. He has a hip hop community. Okay. And most of the hip hop music, not all but most of it is like retro, right? Like 90s, who, like kind of the older rappers and that culture. And he sells a he sells a book. Right? And his goal is he wants to get this book out to as many viewers so I told him to create a better offer. Instead of just selling the book say if you purchase the book, you can actually he does a zoom podcast, okay with the with the actual artists. I said, for the first 50 people who buy or whatever you position where if you get the book, you get access to q&a directly with the hip hop artists themselves. Right? And I said make that the bonus. And it'll make people buy more of the books and it's worth and that's just a kind of a similar angle of like purchase something that is available and people will see before a billion times but offer something else that's unique that they haven't been offered before to increase conversion. Blake Beus  10:00  Yeah, now now make that an offer to buy 10 of his book exam. But Greg Marshall  10:03  I didn't even think of that. Yes. Next level Blake Beus  10:06  that is next level. Yeah, I think that's amazing. I should actually send that client the link, you have yet to say, try to mimic this. Yeah. 10. So like, 10 of those, and then you get direct q&a, we have a hip hop artist, because that is a cool, that's a really unique offer. And that's definitely gonna resonate with people. Greg Marshall  10:22  Yeah, I think, you know, and we, and before this, we were even talking about, you know, you got to have powerful offers. But another thing to think about just to do things a lot differently, then your competitors, right, that's the one way that you can learn from that is to try to do everything differently than competitors. And we were talking about algorithms and one of the gentlemen that, you know, I think he has very good information. I think I don't want to mess his name up, but Dipesh a Deepesh. Yes. deepish men, men baleia men deal. Yeah, I think he's, he's great. Super good. super intelligent, always has great insight. And he had mentioned something on a video that he ran an ad towards to me. So hopefully, if he does hear this, your ad is working. That sent from Facebook directly to a YouTube link, which I always thought Facebook would squeeze that even if you're paying for it, I always thought they would almost like give you a negative relevance score because of that. But I watched the content that he had in the video, and he talked a lot about Blake Beus  11:26  just just for clarification, why why would you think that Facebook would give you negative, like a negative relevance going over relevant score, if you're linking off to a YouTube video in a Facebook app, Greg Marshall  11:37  specifically the YouTube just because YouTube's their competitor, gotcha. And so that's why I would think they, you know, they don't want you to go there. But obviously, it must be working because the ad was served too. And in the video, he talked a lot about positive signals, and optimizing for ads and the importance of doing things more than just like optimizing for purchase. And sending more positive signals inside of your ad account to get actually better results. And it's a different way of thinking which I was telling you. Before we hit record, I've accidentally done some of these things just as like thoughts of like, why can't you optimize in this fashion, where it would actually help your conversions. And in my past experience it has, but I've never been able to actually explain why I just saw that it worked. So I would just keep doing it. But he actually went more in depth with you know that it's it's okay to actually optimize for Add to Cart versus purchases, if you don't get a lot of purchases. Yeah. Because that actually, that conversion rate information is getting fed back into your ad account. And that could have a less, it could be less impactful than if you were doing Add to Cart. And I always had the I guess false assumption that if you're not optimizing for purchase, and just only add to carts, that somehow you're targeting, like a less quality user. But you you mentioned something that I really liked to say. But that would be we would be assuming that we're giving the algorithm too much credit. Right, Blake Beus  13:16  right. And I feel like a lot of people do do that. I know I've kind of fallen in that camp. And a lot of it definitely has, I even think a lot of gurus out there people teaching others how to run Facebook ads fall into this camp of the algorithm being super smart. It's, it's great, but it's not all intelligent. It's not it can't predict who's going to purchase it can guess, who might be likely to purchase. But one of the things that people bump into is they say, Okay, well, if I'm targeting add to carts, I'll get I'll get a ton of add to carts and no purchases. But here. And that comes from place of assuming that the algorithm knows who are the people that will just add to cart? And who are the people that will just purchase. But the thing is, is those groups are the same people because anybody that purchases needs to add to cart first. Yeah. They have to add to view content. And all of those things. And so when we take a step back and look at how algorithms actually work, you you they're not smart, they're not these intelligent, we say AI they are not artificial intelligence. The correct term is machine learning and you have to train the machine to do what you want it to do. And these are really really sophisticated machine learning things. But But where I started going when you started talking with me about this and when you were saying that Depeche was talking about positive signals. I think that kind of really resonated with me and got me thinking about okay, so, positive signals are identity buyers that you send into the ad platform, the machine learning platform to train it saying these are the types of people that I want. So anybody that view content, they have to view content before they can add to cart. Yep. So I want I definitely want these people, this is a positive signal. When I send, hey, you know, the objective is Add to Cart, these are the people adding to cart, that's another positive signal. I'm training the algorithm. And Facebook knows that view content is a lower priority than add to cart, they know that already. You just need to get the data in there, the types of people and then the purchases when you're sending the purchase data back into the Facebook algorithm or any ad platform algorithm. That's another positive signal. So you're sending positive signals at each layer of the conversion funnel. Yep, yep. And it's not surprising that you're seeing better results that way. Greg Marshall  15:48  Well, I've seen so a couple of examples that I have. And this typically tends to work really well with lower budget clients, meaning like, they don't have a ton of money to spend, right, somewhere around the 20 to $50 day range. And what I found is, there was a, in fact, this happened a couple times, where someone's only spending 2030 bucks a day, you would optimize for purchase, the purchases don't come in, as well as if you optimize for add to carts, you actually I was actually getting more volume, and less cost. And the cost of purchase was lower on the Add to Cart than the actual going direct to purchase. Which that started to make me wonder, like, interesting. So I'm going after, quote, unquote, less valuable part of the funnel Add to Cart. And this even happened with view content. I showed I think I showed you my ad account one time, one of my customers where I showed you, I'm actually optimizing for view content, but my costs per purchase are actually lower. Yes. And the purchase was right. And my theory is, well, it's more important to get more data into the account, because I found that if you do optimize for like, let's say purchase, it seems like it does tend to lower your view content, add to carts, and other kind of top end funnel data. Yeah. Which I believe slows down learning of your ad account. Yeah, right. And some of the best ad accounts that I've grown. I actually started with, which is, which is kind of funny, because it's not, I don't know if it's ever been recommended this way. But I started with view content first, and then move to the next objective Add to Cart. After we got 1000s of view content. And then built up the add to cart and Informatica cart, then moved to purchase. Yeah. And it seemed like the results are way more stable. Yeah. And you still get purchase off view content or add to cart? Blake Beus  17:52  Did you leave the view content that add cart objective? campaigns running? Greg Marshall  17:57  I did not. You did? No. And that's actually something you brought up earlier this morning, where I was like, I wonder if you were to actually just do all of them in a row, if that actually would improve and keep them all running. Keep them all running. Yeah, like when you were talking about this? And I'd like I did, like you said, I Blake Beus  18:13  did bring it up before we hopped on here. I've never actually done that. And I'm definitely gonna go try that. Well, you know, see what's gonna happen. Because if, if that does work, I can see that being a much more reliable and stable way to get results. Because one of the problems everybody runs into with their ad accounts is you, you have a week where you're just crushing it. I mean, you, you and I were together. When I was thinking of one week that you're probably talking, I had one week where we're doing $5,000 a day on my digital product. And I was like, This is amazing. Yeah. And then the results completely fizzled out into a bunch of different things. But, um, everybody has physical problems. Everybody has Phil's a problem. But I wonder if you run an ad campaign with the objective of you content, a campaign with the objective of an decarnin campaign with the objective of purchase? It would make sense because you're giving all these positive signals, it would make sense that you're going to have much more stable results long term because having a really great week is fantastic. But having a good we're having a good week for 52 weeks in a row is way better Greg Marshall  19:23  is way better. Yeah. And versus a great week, and then a non existent we finally got a great, it puts you on the bipolar rollercoaster ride away. Oh, man. But I think here's something that you just reminded. You asked me if I had done that simultaneously, what there there was, you can't do this anymore. Which which makes me think there is merit to this, okay. Where I was running a campaign for a specific customer and they they spend about, I don't know, $10,000 a month, and we were running a conversion campaign. We started it at view content, kept the cat everything the same. And then after we built up a whole bunch of data, then I switched the delivery optimization and the conversion event to that add to cart. And then I switched it again to purchase, then I didn't even Blake Beus  20:20  like launch new campaigns, You're just swapping Yep, the objective. Greg Marshall  20:24  Now you can't do that anymore. They changed it. But when I did it that way, everything stayed 100% stable. It never like we didn't have any dips. And so then the final one was the optimization for value, because ad learned from the ad set. And we've been running that for six months with no changes, no change the ad, no change that set nothing. The only change is where we were changing the conversion events, and the delivery optimizations within the ad set that whole time. Interesting. So my theory was, well, if I can get this ad set to just build so much data, that it would be learning just from all the past data, regardless of if I change the conversion event. And it says you're going back into learning limited, because it's not really because it still has all the previous day that that I built into it. Which makes me think there's merit to maybe if you just have those types of campaigns running at all times, the way you said, to view content, add to cart, initiate checkouts purchase, that it would serve that same purpose of building up data and continuously feeding more into it. Blake Beus  21:35  Yeah, and I think so. So the old school way of doing this would would be to have like a top of funnel ad and then you have an Add to Cart objective ad ad campaign and you exclude people that are you do a lot of these exclusions. I correct me if I'm wrong, but in my experience recently, having these different buckets where you're including and excluding people has not worked as well. No, I mean, it's actually were terribly terrible. So what I'm thinking is you run these ads in parallel, and you just let them overlap. Yep. And see what happens. Greg Marshall  22:11  Yeah, so I think, I think what, what, based off this episode, what you should take from it is we're really trying to feed as much data as possible Blake Beus  22:23  in a good positive indicator. Yeah, positive indicators like positive he calls them signals, you patch that yes, signals, positive signals, Greg Marshall  22:31  but you want to you want to, like send those good signals, like, oh, yeah, they did this good thing, they had a constant thing. And you're like educating almost like your own computer. You're teaching it, how to get the results that you want. But the phrase I said before we had record was viewing it almost like nutrition and a healthy body. Were like purchases are like protein. But you can't just only live off protein, like you have to have other nutrients like vitamins and minerals, and carbohydrates and fats. And so I'm viewing the rest of those conversion events as you still need to protein carbohydrates, fats, vitamins, and you need to feed that into the body, in order for you to get the best results possible. Blake Beus  23:21  Part of a healthy, healthy, balanced diet. I've heard people say, I've heard people say, you've got to feed the machine talk about the algorithm. And this, this is like a different way of visually, yeah, which I really love your it's like, literally, I want to feed the machine good, healthy. Yeah, I want to just a vegan strong, Greg Marshall  23:36  I don't want it to be a competition cutting face with only eating protein. So this, this has been interesting for me to have captured that information off, you know, off that piece of confidence. So with that being said, I think our next episode, we can go into more depth on this kind of case study. In fact, there's a couple clients that I know would be interested in being involved in testing this this area out. So maybe what we do is follow up with some actual data or at least follow up and with some of your clients or maybe when your products. Let's run a week's worth of different objectives. Yeah. And then let's come back and talk about our learnings and see see what happened. Blake Beus  24:25  Absolutely, absolutely. I want to this whole conversation reminded me of something we didn't talk about before. And it got me thinking about positive signals. So uh, want to get your thoughts on this. So I have a subscription product where people are billed every month, month after month. I'm gathering that the purchase data into my own internal systems. But I realized I'm not actually sending the lifetime value purchases back into my ad platforms, which I can Yes, I wonder if sending that back into Those recurring monthly purchases back into the ads platform saying, hey, this this person purchased again. Yeah, they purchased again, they purchased again, I wonder if that would have an overtime positive impact on the quality of the targeting that Facebook does. And Google does behind the scene. Yeah. What do you think Greg Marshall  25:18  about I think 100%. And in fact, that one client, I tell you spent attend, I also left that part out, they do feedback, data, offline, uploaded data back into their ad account, so that they can constantly see what's actually coming in. And I think it makes a huge impact. And in fact, some of the some of the accounts that I have found that done the best, which is this is actually kind of a unique finding, right now have followed that procedure, continuously feeding back into their ad accounts, even the offline conversions. Right. And even if like Facebook isn't, you know, deduplicating perfectly my mind, I don't really care. Because it they're still getting the data. Yeah. So it's like, I mean, I'm looking at just my revenue, right? Like, did the money come in? Through my store? That's what I'm based off of. But if Facebook can get data that's 95% accurate, so that they can help my targeting? I'd much rather do that. Yeah. Blake Beus  26:19  And and I think that's a strategy that's going to lead to better results. Long term. And when I'm talking long term, I'm not talking like three months. Yeah, I'm talking years. Yes, Facebook ads as a as a platform is not going away. Google ads as a platform is not going away, they're only going to get better. And MT better is maybe not the right word. They're going to get bigger over time there. Yeah, there's there's going to be different channels and avenues and everything. And if you have a good ad account with years, literally years worth of positive signal data, I can't imagine that you're going to be better off every time there's a new change or a new regulation or something that comes through, you're probably going to not have a dip or a hiccup in your ads as much if you have this long term of production Greg Marshall  27:08  data. So So yeah, so I think we should we should circle back with some testing. In fact, I'm going to I'm going to do a call with a client right now, that I believe will be very interested in testing this out because she's very open minded and looking for ways to always improve. Yeah, so she would be a great account to test. Yeah, so absolutely. Blake Beus  27:34  All right. Well, you know, everybody go try this out for yourself. Yes. Know what you think. Greg Marshall  27:39  Yes. And until next week, you guys have a good one and talk to you guys later. All right.  

Monday Dec 13, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript Greg Marshall  0:00  All right, so we just, you know, talk before we put the hit record by a lot about a topic that I think is is more important than most businesses, I believe think, which is, when you're running ads or your marketing, no matter what you're doing, you're sending them to some level of a website. Yeah. But no one's ever really thinking about well, when they get to the website. Yeah, it should be a good experience. So one of the questions that I was asking before we hit record was, what is what's the most important thing when it comes to user experience? And tell me a little bit about why we should be paying attention to this? Blake Beus  0:44  Yeah. Well, I mean, we literally talked about this for over an hour I hitting the record button, we should we should hit record earlier. But yeah, a lot of a lot of people don't think about page speed. I mean, I mean, they think about it a little bit, but they don't think about it. In the terms that having a slower Page Speed actually cost you money, especially if you're running ads, or you're putting efforts into to to writing content for SEO purposes or whatever. PageSpeed is an extremely important thing. Greg Marshall  1:16  And let me ask you this, it says you said, yeah, if you're running ads, yeah, because this is something that I think, would really be helpful to know. Let's do a comparison. Okay, so let's say one website, loads significantly faster than another, right? Yeah. And that, but every other variable is the same. They're both running the same exact ads, with the same wording everything creatives, the offer, everything's the same except one page is loading significantly faster. What would you predict is the difference in revenue between one versus the other, if everything else was the same, except one was way faster than the other? Blake Beus  2:01  I mean, I've seen, I've seen some campaigns and things that I've worked on, see a 20 to 50% lift in conversions, just by increasing the Page Speed, which, which is kind of this positive feedback loop if you want to think about right, so. So I'm Sam running, running some ads. One of the indicators that Google or Facebook is looking for is how many conversions that ad is getting, by getting more conversions than Google and Facebook will say to themselves, algorithmically, hey, that's a good app, it's working for people and people seem to really like it. Let's give more high quality traffic to that ad. And it makes you more competitive over other ads, or whatever. So like I said, 30 50%. And if your page speed is really, really, really slow, you're you're just not going to get any conversions, because people are going to think your site is broken, which effectively it is if your page is slow. And so you know, as far as how big of a lift we're going to get if we speed up a page, it could be massive, if you're not getting any conversions, because it's that slow. Got it. Greg Marshall  3:11  So and even if you are getting conversions, if it's a really slow website, you can get a 50% lift. So if you're getting let's say you're getting 10 conversions, for every 1000 people that go to your site, then if you can get a 50% lift, and you will get what 15 Yeah, so if if you're getting five more conversions, and let's say your average order value is you know, 50 bucks, you would be getting an additional $250 That you're essentially missing out on Yeah, because your site is slower. Absolutely. And if that's every day, yeah, then that starts to compound. So then you're talking about 1000s of the house dollars per month. Blake Beus  3:53  And like I said, it's a it's a positive feedback loop. Because then Google, even if it's just search engine optimization, or SEO, or whatever, Google and Facebook, or they know, you've got their tracking codes on their site, they know what's going on. And they say, Well, this site's doing really well. There's the the page pages are loading fast, people seem to really enjoy the content and they're converting, so let's make that let's bump them up in the search engine list. Let's let's put them you know, from from ninth place to second place, and then you get more high quality traffic, right because from the top three results down the the drop off of click through rates in search engines is huge. Yes, massive. And it's the same thing with ads. If you're if you're running search ads on Google, you know, you're you're above those top three results if if you're competing properly against the other people. Many people want to compete with budget, but they need to realize that another currency they can compete with is PageSpeed. You can actually be in the number one spot and be paying less for that traffic and less per click than the number two spot if your page is running fast. Greg Marshall  4:56  So one of the things we did some analysis on a couple pages before we hit the Record mode. We, you know, there was some valuable things that you mentioned, it looks like to me, correct me if I'm wrong looks like the biggest thing that slows the website speed down, is the size of the picture? Or having video? Blake Beus  5:18  Yes, yeah, there's the top three, I would say the size of the picture, video. And tracking scripts like Facebook, pixel, Google tracking scripts, or whatever. And so you, there's always this trade off, right? Like, you need to have the tools in place you need for marketing. But it's, it's like you said earlier, if we wanted a page that would have a fastest page load speed, perfect scores across the board, we would have a page with, you know, maybe a sentence of text and nothing else on there. And we will get perfect scores on all these tracking tools. But you're not going to convert with that, you've got to have this push and pull. You need things like tracking scripts and stuff. But you need to not go nuts with the tracking scripts. A lot of people especially if your site's been around for a long time, you're tracking scripts, you could have all of these old scripts from way back when when you try to marketing strategy and installed this script. And maybe it's maybe something like ad roll memory. That was that was dead. Yeah, longtime they're still around, but but you might have this ad roll script on your page, you're not doing anything with it, just pull that off, right? image sizes, you can reduce the image sizes and, and a lot of times people will snap a picture with their phone and upload it to the site and not realize that your phone these high quality cameras on your phone, they take pictures that are 13 megabytes large, which is huge for a webpage. And you just don't don't need that. So you need to compress them down or resize them or crop them down to the right size. And then as far as, as video goes, if you're a technical person, you can actually write some code so that after the whole page loads, then you load the video. Or you've probably seen some people, when you go to their site, they have a video, you click on it takes a second, then the video loads, and then you got to click on it again, actually hit play. Yes, that's a speedy strategy out there delaying the load of the video until you actually show interest. And so there's these strategies. But the easiest one for most people that are non technical is images. Got it, look at your image sizes. Use use use the tool to compress it squish dot app, squish that as a web web app that I use a lot for my clients super easy to compress images and things that way Greg Marshall  7:31  exclu style app? And what about like, you know, we also talked about the Google is correct and run Google amp? Yo, is there any reason to try to utilize this as part of a strategy? And in my mind, I'm thinking, Could an e commerce Store? You know, I've got a lot of e commerce Store clients. Could they use something like this? And I remember you said there's a trade off of like, you can't track as well, using pixels. But if you use Google ads or Google Analytics, explain that a little bit. Yeah. So Blake Beus  8:06  um, let me give people a little bit of a rundown on what amp is. So So Google amp is a service that Google offers for free. And what it does is it scrapes your page, makes a optimized version of it, and then hosts it on Google's actual servers. And then when you search to it from Google, you know, webs the search engine, it will load that version of your page instead of your site, because it will load way, way, way faster. But as part of optimizing it, they, they will sometimes strip out scripts, unless you write them in a way to tell Google amp, hey, we need this. We need this JavaScript in there. So oftentimes, I mean, when it first launched, the Facebook pixel didn't work. I think that's been fixed. And they feel that over Google Analytics will work because it's a Google property. But some of you've written any custom scripts or things like that, they may not load because you're loading this optimized version. So there is a little bit of a trade off there. The but the pages load insanely fast. And you do rise up in search engine results if you do turn on amp. So there's there's this kind of give and take there. If you're if you're running some, some custom code to split test something on your page, or you have some custom interactivity on your site or something like that, that may not work on Google Apps. So you just got to know Greg Marshall  9:35  what about Okay, so let me ask you this, because this is something that what if you don't really, what if you don't care as much from the pixel inside. You just want to be able to make sure you're ranking better and that people have a better user experience. Granted that you're tracking all your other metrics on the back end, right? then would it be beneficial to use it? Blake Beus  10:03  Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's like anything you can test it out. Got it? You can turn it on and try it. Greg Marshall  10:10  So you can't turn it on. And ah, yeah. Okay, so I wasn't sure I didn't know if he had like, completely go all in like making an app. So now Blake Beus  10:21  you can turn it off. But yeah, you can test it out and see, right? Well, one of the things a lot of people have run into is, this is seems like less of a model now than it used to be. But it still is a model. But where people have a blog that we get lots and lots and lots of hits, and one of the ways they would monetize that blog is they would have ads on the blog, right, and they will get paid by people clicking on those ads. If you expand beyond Google Display Network, which honestly for a content creator in this way, doesn't pay out that great and you expand all of these other ad networks that exist out there that you've probably never heard of. Yep, that pay out better. Those ads may not run got it Unknown Speaker  11:05  for for you actually experienced that. Yeah. Yeah. And so you, Blake Beus  11:09  you have to know, the ins and outs. And you have to understand and so if your business model relies on that type of monetization strategy, amps not not going to work for you got it. Got it. Greg Marshall  11:23  Right. And that's maybe why initially, the company I was working with those client, they were running into the issue where they're trying to use the new app. But the ads, the ads at the top, didn't work. Yeah. And they're using another not Google Display Network, but another ad network to monetize it. And so with, so what about this does it have? Can you still use Google Analytics and Google and yeah, absolutely. So that Google fire shoot Unknown Speaker  11:52  themselves with the flow? Okay. Greg Marshall  11:54  And, you know, really that question, is, there's two reasons why I'm asking that question. It's like, in my mind, I have it as what can an E commerce client use? And then what can a service based business use? Right? And so far, it sounds like a service based business could really benefit from using app if it does help you speed things up? Yeah, Blake Beus  12:18  definitely. And I mean, you really just, you and I talked about this all the time, you need to think about your monetization model. If if you have a service that pays out big Yeah, right, then you can be a lot more loosey goosey, and not have your stuff all together. Because if every time you get a client that is $50,000 revenue, then it doesn't matter. If you aren't optimized, and you have to spend $1,000 to get that client, it doesn't matter because you still made $49,000 As your ad spend, right. But if you're doing something like e commerce or whatever, then your margins are a lot tighter, because your product costs you have shipping costs and everything like that. But with E commerce, I mean, Google, Google and Facebook, they both love ecommerce companies. And Google has Google Shopping. Facebook has its its shopping platform as well, we can both you can import products into both of those and everything. So, and I don't have experience with this specifically myself. But I highly doubt using amp for an E commerce site is going to have any negative impacts. I would bet that they've got that figured out by now, amps been around for five or six years now. So it's not new. Greg Marshall  13:27  It's not new news. Just it's just another way because in my mind, I think from a strategy standpoint, most people that are trying to be found to be found at Google. Yeah. So it makes the most sense to use all of their products. Yep. Because they're probably going to reward you. I know, they probably wouldn't say that. But they're probably gonna reward you for using everything they own. Right? Yeah. Blake Beus  13:50  Yeah, I think, in my opinion, you're totally right. But also you shouldn't have all your eggs in one basket, right? Yep. And Google's Google is actually pretty good about, you know, if you have all your eggs in their basket, they they're pretty good enough. accidentally or intentionally screwing you over Facebook on the other hand, yeah, I mean, I would I would if you're using all their products using Google Shopping, you're using Google amp you're using analytics. You're using Google ads. There's definitely some synergy there. But I would also have products listed in other places got you maybe list your your ecommerce products in in you know Amazon or Newegg where people don't know you can list product, your own products on Newegg. You can list them on eBay, you can list them, you know, on Facebook, all of these different places and I would have presence, you know, as many places as is feasible. Yep. Because there's obviously some complexities when you have coxless got it all places. Greg Marshall  14:49  So and it sounds like for the biggest thing that you want is to pay attention to the speed. Right the speed is probably the key He outside of like laying your side? Yeah, the speed is really what's going to impact the user experience. Yeah, if you, because I'm Blake Beus  15:11  technical, and you, you probably approach this problem differently, because you come at it from an advertising marketing side. But whenever I'm helping a client with ads, and we see a significant dip in performance, my first thought is, did the PageSpeed get affected somehow? Yeah, it's someone upload a massive image. Yes, accidentally, and drive our PageSpeed down. And that's the first thing I always look at. You probably I mean, I'm curious, what do you look at? When you see a dip in performance? What's the first thing you look at? Greg Marshall  15:38  I mean, because I've been around you for so long. It really is that, isn't it? Yeah. It really is, like, Oh, something must have changed on here. First, is it speed? And then second? Did we change the words on the offer, right, because this happens often with clients will be actually running ads, and then they'll change what the landing page says, without letting me know. And then all of a sudden, it'll be like, the page converting to 3% 2.5 or whatever. And then all of a sudden is at point five, eight. And you're like, what just happened? It just like, completely dip, then I'll say the first thing is, did you change anything on the page? Did you add anything just to track them? So yeah, I mean, because like I said, because I've been around you? I think about the speed. Yeah. But probably before that, it would be did you change anything on that wire? Right? What have you had to have changed the experience on the phone? Yeah. So that's, that's my thought. But I just never really, I think the regular business owner is not thinking about know any of this. So I think we just assume all websites are equal like it no matter where you build it, no matter what you put on there, they all operate exactly the same. And then when we take a deeper dive into clients, websites, we always find, oh, this link is broken. No, this is not loading fast. There's typically issues that are hurting them. And one thing that I do know as an advertiser, and this is why I started to pay attention to it more. When I would run ads, I've seen clients almost do that experiment I treasure where they're targeting the same audiences. Ad Copies almost exactly the same. The Crazy Ones Exactly. But one person's ad costs is literally 567 times more than the others. Yeah. And it's because of the load speed. Yeah. It's at least that was my assumption, because that was the only thing different Yeah, about what was going on. Blake Beus  17:43  Yeah, it's, it's a big deal. And honestly, it's one of those things that you can forget about, right? You can hear this podcast and think, Okay, I'm gonna keep an eye on this. And then six months down the road, you get you're busy with other things, and you didn't realize it's, it's, it's like that mate, you need to have that constant maintenance, constant touch ups, like changing the oil in your in your car, right? You need to maybe throw something in your calendar, once, once a quarter or something like that, if not more, for my clients, I look at it once a week, usually, and just to do some quick tests, but throw for reminder to just look at it, check on those things and make sure that nothing happens because websites are these living, breathing, growing, things are constantly changing, and they need to be maintained. But But first, yeah, but for some reason why people think well, let's set it and forget why I made the website, I built the website. And that comes across in how people pay for websites, too. Oftentimes, they're like, well, I need a website built. So who's gonna build me a website for the give me the best value, you know, the best website for the lowest cost, lowest cost? And then once it's done, they pay for it and think, okay, my website's done, tick that markup. But it's that's not how that's not how they work. They constantly need to be updated. You constantly just swap out content. And it's easy to let websites get stale at night, that happens to me on my own website. Greg Marshall  18:56  I know, I know, for sure it's happened to me. And because getting more educated about this, I don't think I would have even bothered to look into learning about this. Until I noticed that some ad accounts were getting dinged for this. Yeah, I was like, wow, that. So this means more now than just like, Yeah, well, if it's slow, who cares? My Products good enough to those waiting for? But it's like, you know, Facebook and Google are going to charge you more. Yeah, for a bad experience, which now that gets my attention. Blake Beus  19:27  Cost you actual money? Yeah, actual money. So I mean, I think we can dive into some of the specifics. Like what so so you're on board, you want your website to be fast, and what can you do to help identify it? So let me give you two different tools you can you can dive into the first one is called Google PageSpeed Insights, just do a Google search for that. And it will it will pull up a tool you can put in a URL you can put in for a specific page, and it will go through and give you two different scores based on the mobile experience. And based on the desktop experience. Now your desktop experience will almost always be higher, but it'll be useful. From zero to 100. Any, you want to try to do your best to make your score as high as possible, while still having the things on your page that you need? What's an acceptable business? Right? Greg Marshall  20:11  Well acceptable? Like, I know there's a trade off, what would you say? 70? Blake Beus  20:17  I would say 70 Is is, you're in the top, maybe 5%, you have a 70, on mobile or better. Greg Marshall  20:27  So there'll be at least a number to kind of shoot for that. Yeah. Is it impossible to get 100? Yeah. So it is possible? I don't even I would think there would be no way you can get 100. So it is possible, it is possible, Blake Beus  20:39  it is possible. And how you do that is you have a page that's mobile responsive, you have a page that is mostly text, all the images on your page are very optimized. You maybe have Google Analytics, and that's it. No other tracking codes. And you don't have any videos. Got it? Yeah, I mean, you could you could, you could get up the end. And you probably need to be on a fast server. So you could do all of those things. But if you're hosting somewhere that you don't own the server, you still might not get 100, because then you might need to, you know, do that extra layer. And for me, that's what I know how to do. But most people don't know how to do that. So it's reasonable that you don't worry about Yeah, Greg Marshall  21:18  you know, one thing that I'm learning, and I'm sorry, did you have a second? Yes, yes, I'm sorry, GT metrics. Blake Beus  21:23  And you can just go to GT metrics with an X at the And you can put your URL in there, they'll give you different speeds or whatever. But they'll also tell you if you have large images, if you have a lot of scripts on your page, and you can just kind of tick those things off the list and keep testing to try to get your grade up. Greg Marshall  21:45  Got it. And you know, one thing that I've learned from because I consider myself a learn, I'd like to learn from people who know things that I don't know, right, yeah. And one thing that I'm learning from, you know, working in the E commerce space, which I did not start off, and by the way, and then spending more time with you, there's two growth strategies that people do not think about. So an example would be in the marketing space, increasing lifetime value of a customer, you know, trying to lower your cost per acquisition, repeat buyers, all that those are growth strategies and of itself. But then when you talk about there's two strategies that I think almost no one talks about, right, which is website speed. Is it gross? Right? It is, right? Yeah. And the second one that almost no one talks about is inventory. Meaning if you can get the inventory cheaper, faster and more readily available, you could beat your competition, with just those two sides alone, better inventory and faster website. And those are two things that I would never in a million years guess could be a competitive advantage. Yeah, that really, you can speed up the growth of your business by focusing on the counterintuitive. Hmm. Blake Beus  23:05  That's a good point. I'm glad you um, you know, I'm glad you brought that up. Because it is true. There's these girls strategies that happen behind the scenes just making you more operationally efficient. Yep. And and, you know, with inventory that makes sense. One of my clients runs a software that helps people list, ecommerce on Amazon, Newegg, all of these different places, right. And that's where I kind of started learning about a little, a little bit of this stuff. But you know, having that additional operational efficiency isn't something that people think about, but it does make you more competitive. Yep. And is the growth strategy in and of itself? Greg Marshall  23:41  Yeah. And I think that's, it's, it's remarkable, because I was thinking about that, recently, where I just thought, you know, there's so much talk about what you call, you know, the top and top line front end optimizations. And there's very little being talked about, like, some of the companies there's there's one company in general that Alize t shirt companies follow that they're always trying to figure out, how are they making as much money as are making? And the more I started looking into it, the more I realize is because it's not the front end strategy. Yeah. Right. They have a competitive advantage. I'm not gonna say it because people were there. But they have a competitive advantage on the operational side. Yeah, that allows them to do what they do. The other stores can't Yeah, and they're not going to share that. But they're going to tell you, the you're going to try to follow them, but you're following them only partially. Yeah. When it comes to the strategy, and you're not seeing the bot, which everything they're doing is legit. It's a super good strategy. Yeah. But it's just one of those things where it's a strategy just like speeding up your website, and inventory that you don't think of off the top of your head that that could be a growth strategy to take your business to the next level. So all this stuff, you know, on the back end, operationally, I think there should be a heavier emphasis on the website stuff. And so all these tips that you're given, I think, if you're serious about growing your business, and you want to take things to the next level, you should be following all these tips that Blake is sharing. Because this could be the difference between you getting the business or your competition. And if you're in a competitive space, this you really have to pay attention just because it is, you know, it's almost like the Olympics, right? The people who are winning are not 510 seconds faster. The second third place, they're they're like, a 10th of a second faster, and sometimes less than that. Yeah. So it's like, it's that little bit that allows you to win. So if you're in a highly competitive industry, these are things that you haven't pay attention to. Blake Beus  25:56  Yeah, absolutely. And it's, I mean, this just goes back to what we talked about time and time and time again, but it's, it's holistic marketing, basically, looking at the whole, the whole of everything, the all inclusive part, your your messaging, your ad strategy, your site speed, all of these things, looking at all of those channels, and making sure everything's lined up or, you know, properly aligned in that. And honestly, it's, it's hard. It's not, it's not easy. There's a reason, like people reach out to you and mean, Greg, because it's, if you're a business owner, or whatever, you're executing all of these other strategies, delivering for your existing clients, making sure they're happy. But now you've got to learn how to make websites faster. Yeah, right. Like that's not, that's not in the realm and that's fine. That's part of delegation and outsourcing or whatever. Border strategy, it's part of the strategy is part of your competitiveness. Greg Marshall  26:45  So you have to constantly adapt. And what worked yesterday may not work tomorrow, or today. And that's kind of the beauty of all is you have to just constantly looking for ways to get better. And at least for me, I tend to get bored easy, which is why this is a great energy for me, because I know they're never gonna make it easy for me. Blake Beus  27:11  Well, well, Greg, let's let's, let's wrap this up. How can people reach out to you? Oh, great, Greg Marshall  27:16  Marshall. CO and if you want to book a strategy session, just go on there and it's your information. And what about you? Blake Beus  27:23  Just Blake peace calm and you can just reach out to me there, see what my current offers are there. Greg Marshall  27:30  So while this is a very useful pockets, I think I think people will get a lot of value from it. So I guess, until next time, we'll talk to you guys later. Blake Beus  27:39  Okay, we'll catch you later. Bye.    

Wednesday Dec 08, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript   Blake Beus  0:01  Are Greg, you want to talk about counterintuitive marketing? What do you mean by that? Greg Marshall  0:06  counter to of marketing is essentially doing things that maybe you feel like is the opposite of what everyone else is doing? Or maybe you think it wouldn't work, but it does work. Okay. One of my first examples of this was early on, when Facebook ads first started, I was in the fitness gym industry. And you know, this sounds absolutely crazy now, but back then no one in the gym and fitness, particularly brick and mortar gyms would even come close to doing social media marketing, Facebook ads, or even just posting on social, because they just thought, you know, it was either dumb, or waste of time, or it was just too early, and no one else was doing it, which is the number one reason why I wanted to do it. Because no one else was doing right. If there's no one there, you have a higher likelihood of winning, right. And so that's kind of my first experience on like counterintuitive marketing, which is doing things that maybe you would think wouldn't grow the business, but it ends up growing it because it's kind of thinking outside the box and doing things differently than what your competitors, and everyone else in the market is doing. Interesting. And so that's that's kind of what I wanted to talk about today is how to put yourself in that mindset to see different opportunities. So like, for example, a drill that you could do is you could sit down, research your competitors, and see, what are they all doing right now to market their product? And then push yourself to go, how can I do the exact opposite of what. And when I say the exact opposite. I'm not saying changing the message or anything, I'm talking literally the exact opposite, be where they are not right. And I think this is a useful drill, whether you decide to do these marketing tactics or not. I think it's worth doing to just challenge yourself to try to come up with some different ideas, because marketing is also a creative act. And this is where you should, especially if you're someone who likes to be creative or wants to be in a creative space, this is the time to do how to do things differently than what everyone else is doing. Blake Beus  2:25  Okay. Okay, so. So what are some examples? I mean, you talked about you talked about social media, back in the day with gyms and everything, and and I'm gonna guess many people when they heard you say that the first thing they were saying they they thought of was probably something like, no one in my industry is running tick tock ads I've ever run tick tock ads, right. But that feels a little bit like chasing a shiny new object as opposed to zagging when everybody else is Zig? Yep. What do you think? Yeah, so Greg Marshall  2:57  there's definitely a level of shiny new object. But the first thing you have to think about is, is my market there, right? So that's probably where you should start. So like, if a platform is purely teenagers, and you sell to 50 year old adults, then it's not the right fit. But this is why you want to brainstorm to think, is there is my Market. And this is where you have to truly understand who you're going after? Is my market, actually, on these platforms? Or where they're at? Right? Does that make sense? Yeah. So what you want to be thinking about is like, first understand your market and then go, where are some places that they are at that my competitors are not? Right, or they're not thinking about? Mm hmm, you see what I mean? And so if you do that, what'll end up happening is, you're basically playing a game with no competition. And then your goal is to as quickly as possible on that real estate, because the competitors will show up. As soon as people see anyone making money at anything, there will be competitors, breaking the doors down to go in and do the same exact thing. And so anytime you find a strategy that you have to move quick. Okay. So that's that's kind of how I look at is like, instead of chasing the shiny new object, First understand is your market actually there? And like, in the Facebook instance, I knew, well, I'm staring at 3040 50 year olds that are my target market, women and at the time, Facebook was more popular than Instagram. Instagram was like, still brand new. Yeah. So they were already on Facebook, using it like they're using Instagram today. Right? But no one was really doing anything to target them. Right. And that's when organic reach was huge. That's when Facebook ad costs really low. It was a big opportunity. So I went in and capitalized. Yeah. And that's that's what I mean is to be thinking about places that your market is at, that other people just aren't thinking about, because there was no In the gym world, it's all about billboards, and TV ads and direct mail. Right? And that's what every gym was doing. Yeah, and door hangers and all that. And so I said, Well, the same people are online. But the gyms, my competitors are not marketing. They're so therefore I can get in cheaper and faster, right. easier and and appear to be the only business in town. Yeah. Because that was at the moment, right, just on that platform. Blake Beus  5:30  Okay. Okay. That's interesting. So, I mean, obviously, this can be applied to a wide range of businesses. I think one of the things that comes to my mind when you're talking about this is the first, the very first thing comes to my mind is, this is oftentimes a little bit harder than it sounds in that it's new territory, or if people aren't there, you can't just look at someone else's strategy and basically duplicate a strategy, which is what a lot of marketers do. Yeah. I mean, I've done that in the past, as well. And that's, it's fine. If you you can learn from what's working, then then run with that. But finding a new area that isn't completely saturated, and diving into that. I will say is going to be a little more frustrating and take a little bit more time than someone might expect. Greg Marshall  6:20  Yeah, yeah. Well, I think you almost have to look like this. Number one, the mindset has to be you're willing to test and willing to fail if it doesn't work out, right? Without without taking massive discouragement from it not working. But understanding you're really a phrase I heard one time I can't member who said it, but you're you're drilling for oil. Hmm. So most of your stuff that you're gonna try is not going to work. But when you do find one that works, it's going to be well worth the failed experiments in the past, right? And so yes, it is a little bit more difficult to find these places. But it's, it's definitely worth it. And you just have to like, think about how can can I use and view things slightly different? So if you're looking at, for example, like digital marketing, right, everyone's on digital, everyone's on Instagram, Facebook, whatever. And all the competitors are on there. But a different way to look at it too, though, is there are some industries that don't use digital as much. So digital still can be a place to do it. Right. Right. Like, you know, you see a lot of insurance agents there. I don't see very many insurance agents, doing social media, right? Especially when it comes to using paid ads, right? Or like attorneys or so there's so it's industry based, it's what your competitors are doing. If you're in like a mass market, like a fitness or dating or making money opportunities, most of these digital places are going to be flooded with people, right pushing this stuff, right. But if you're anything else outside of those industries, they're pretty much it's still wide open, right? Because most of the competitors are not investing because they're still doing only the traditional strategy. Billboards, direct mail, TV. Blake Beus  8:08  Yeah, well, I would, I would say two. Most local businesses really don't do a very good job with digital marketing. And local traffic is cheap. Yes. Like you can you can saturate a city. On the cheap, if you want to get a video out there or something like that, it'd be known as the place to go to for XYZ services. You can get that video out there. And And honestly, it works even better if you're in a boring industry, right? I've had people come to me say, Oh, my industry is boring at a title company. It's boring. Well, I got what do I how do I and we talked about some things. But title companies make a lot of money. They have a lot of money to put towards advertising, which can easily translate into a very, very high ROI. And it's a wide open field. Yep. No one in the title industries doing a good job on digital ads. No, Greg Marshall  9:07  it's because what you just said, it's counterintuitive. Every single title company is thinking the same thing. We're so boring. How do we promote our title company? Yeah. So therefore they don't even try? Yeah. Blake Beus  9:21  Yeah. And I mean, this is where my brain gets going. Because I love brainstorming. I love sitting down with the client brainstorming. And if if if we have anybody in the title company listening to this, this is where my brain goes. I'm like, Okay, fine. You think your industry is boring. Lean into that. record some videos that are the most boring videos and just own up the boringness be like, hey, just another boring title company video and tell a story or whatever we like. We'd love to have you come in Yep. We'll make it super boring because no one likes an exciting title experience they want calm, boring. Yep, everything put together and just make this whole series of boring videos, that's something that would go nuts Greg Marshall  10:02  online. Well, and that's something that no one's really trying. Because like we said, the assumption within that industry is that, well, we can do social media cuz we don't have anything fun to post. So that's, that's counterintuitive marketing, because everyone else is intuitively thinking, we have to do direct mail and the other traditional ways, because that's the only way. That's how we've always done it. And sometimes it's good to try to break through and find new ways to do it, because that's where a lot of the opportunity is going to be. And so I think, like, I actually saw an ad yesterday, that was that that I liked a lot. And it's a local comp, it's, I could tell they were locally targeting. It was actually Top Golf. Okay. And it was on tick tock, okay. And I said, Wow, see, they get it because traffic costs right now, tick tock, particularly local marketing is basically free. And so you can reach a ton of people for a very low amount of money. And the fact that they're doing it and they got creative with it, I can assure you, that campaign is performing well, based off of dollars invested to dollars return, because when you're in, when you're in a less competitive platform, or you're not, you know, you're not everyone's going after the same people. That dollar, even if it's not as effective, like the conversion rate isn't great. It's still great, because it's so cheap, that if you convert one out of 1000, but you're paying $2, to reset 1000 It makes Yeah, economic sense. And so that's kind of and you can build a brand that way. Because you're you are bringing up clinical branding yourself while still doing direct response. So I just feel like doing things where it almost feels, I don't know, for lack of better word dumb, or scary or almost irresponsible to do, right. Like, you almost feel a response I'm going to run tic tock ads for for like a grown up business. But, you know, it's it's always worth a try. Because you don't know, and we don't want to make the assumption that we do know. Right. Right. And that's, that's something that I find a lot of businesses, business owners make is breaking the golden rule of assuming everyone consumes and purchases exactly like you. That's not true. Everyone, these platforms wouldn't exist, unless there was a demand. Right. Right. And so people behave differently. Blake Beus  12:30  Yeah. Yeah. And I've also seen a lot of people I've talked with several people that have said, you know, tick tock is just for younger, younger audiences. Yeah, whatever. And it's not there's there's a wide range of people on there. And honestly, not a lot of people on Tik Tok are monetizing their followings here well, at all, in fact, most of them aren't. Yeah. And so there definitely is some opportunity there to to make some moves, you just have to think about and think it through. And like, like you said, maybe Zig when everybody else is zagging along those lines. But I'd like to talk about one of the one of the things and this is old school marketing, but I feel like so many companies leave it and we talk about all the time, but it's email marketing. Oh, yeah. It really is this wide open field. And, and it is a place that a lot of businesses just aren't leveraging they, I can't tell you how many people have have told me recently that, well, email marketing is dead. I said that, yeah, 12 years ago, Greg Marshall  13:36  it still will probably gonna say it's only Blake Beus  13:41  it's the marketing channel that just won't die. And you need to use is one of the cheapest marketing channels to, but it very well could be part of the unintuitive marketing. Greg Marshall  13:52  Well, if I see where you're going, yes, sometimes counter to have does not mean brand new. Right? counter to can be well, intuitively, we should all do Instagram. Well, everyone's thinking that right? So the counter to it was, well, why don't we lean on email, right? Since now, no one's doing that. Right. You see what I mean? So like, I'm happy brought that up just because I don't want to confuse be one of the thinking. counterintuitive means brand new unknown, some secret, you know, treasure chest hidden. This is just thinking the opposite of where your competitors and so sorry to cut you off. I just want Blake Beus  14:33  to know that's the exact point I was trying to make is it doesn't it doesn't have to be the shiny new social media platform. Everybody thinks about social media as the next new thing. I mean, I see people hopping on clubhouse the audio only when I tried that for a little bit. I was just like, This is not my fair. It's not gonna work. I'm not for me. I'm sure it'll work for somebody. But then I also saw like four or five direct tick tock competitors that have cropped up in The last six or so months, especially when President Trump said he was going to ban tick tock knighted states, all these, like startups piling up. And, and some of those emerged and I got an invite to one of those and you know, everybody's trying to find the next new shiny object and that's fine. Try it out. But sometimes the old school stuff is what's going to convert sometimes just those old school principals, because everybody else has moved on. Yep. Unless left this, you know, void of, of, you know, Greg Marshall  15:31  yeah, channel that that basically used to be the Facebook, and Instagram, right of marketing, which was, in the past, it was all about direct mail and Billboard, and then email came along, and that was this, like, wow, you can just send free messages without having to pay for postage or anything. And then, you know, everyone started doing that. And then, you know, Google Ads came out, and now is the thing, and then Facebook ads came out. And there's always gonna be a new thing. You could go back to things that used to work because everyone's left, but they still have huge saturation, because and when I say saturation, not with businesses, but with consumers, like consumers haven't changed as far as we still use Google, for the most part, right? Or if we don't, it's a giant percentage of people who do. And the same thing with, we still all use email, right? Like, we're like that hasn't, it's not like, because email marketing, the open rates have lower, that doesn't mean that the consumer has stopped using email, it's just that you have to change how you're doing it. But that's just, you know, counter to market is all about thinking about your business, and just how can you be different? And how can you do things that can give yourself a competitive advantage, because there always is a way to give your business a competitive advantage, with the assumption that the market actually wants what you have. Right, right. Blake Beus  16:54  Yeah. So so I kind of want to do dive into a couple of specifics. I know we have some listeners that are in software as a service companies, right. So that's a company that provides an online service, you pay monthly subscription to a lot of times they're very tech forward and quite progressive, because they're in the tech kind of area. Tell me some ways you think they could explore some uncharted territory? Greg Marshall  17:30  Well, you think about first, who are they going after? Right? So give me an example of Mark it will we think about? Blake Beus  17:40  Let's, let's say it would be, let's let's just come up with something like a b2b service that helps them sell e commerce. Greg Marshall  17:51  Alright, so a b2b service that helps them sell e commerce. So one of the things that you can think about is like, the first step I would take is go, who's, who's my competitor, or who's doing some similar to what I'm doing? And then I would write down all their strategies, whatever, whatever they're doing maybe Google search campaigns, YouTube campaigns, social media, and then whatever angle that they're not attacking, I would say, all right, almost like you would take an inventory of every channel that's available to you. And then say, you go one by one, and you would say, All right, so are these guys on Tik Tok? Are these guys on forums? Are these guys using? You know, email lists, partner email is with other influencers? Or people who have that audience? Is there some conferences that I can speak at? And is my competitors doing any of that? And if not find where those channels that converts really well. So you'd want to test each channel? Yeah, as as cost effectively as possible. Don't put yourself out of business, but test each channel and then see, can I gain some traction on any of these channels, and then whatever one of those channels are, go all in on that channel as quickly as humanly possible. Because like I said, the competitors will figure out what you're doing, and then they'll start doing it. And so I would say, look into whatever channels that are available, that are not being tapped into. And if they have your market, start testing those and then see which one of those gives you the most traction. And then once you find one, go heavy in on it all and put all your resources in it, and just try to basically extract as much ROI as you possibly can before the rest. Blake Beus  19:32  Well, the good thing about that with with software as a service companies with that strategy is they make money over time, right? It's a subscription service. So as long as they're, you know, their churn rates are low and they're providing a good service. All the new customers they sign up even if someone else figures out what what they're doing, tries to tries to steal some of that market share. You know, they've got customers for life essentially. Yeah, and Greg Marshall  19:54  I think the the subscription model is really popular cheap because you can pay a little bit more to acquire cash Summer, just because you know, the, you know, the lifetime value is typically much higher than like a one time purchase, right? And so you don't have to, like keep selling them. But yeah, I would, you know, if I was a SaaS company and I was trying to grow, I would probably look heavily into places that the competition almost like, puts their nose up and say, we would never do that. Because then you have an even more competitive advantage, because their egos will get in the way of them trying this technique, if it's working for you, right, which gives you buys you more time to be able to do it, because most people they don't want to be wrong. And so if they say this will never work, they want to make sure that right, and so therefore they won't do it. And so it gives you a huge time advantage to just go horrible. They're never going to enter. So yeah, let's Let's speed this up even more. So by the time someone on their team, or their you know, their board members tell him you better get on here. It's too late. You've already acquired. Blake Beus  21:02  Yeah, yeah. So I want to talk a little bit about shift gears just a little bit. And and talk about a strategy. I've seen work in this regards. So we've talked about channels, right? Where it like there's some some uncharted territory channels. But one of the things a lot of people don't realize is, you know, this is your business, or you're working at this business here. Maybe the uncharted territory is a new product or new idea, you can create that. So if you see an opportunity for a different angle, on on on the people, so you're not directly competing with Yeah, with whatever. Even if it's maybe a first ask company, maybe it's a lower priced yet tier that addresses a very specific need that people have right before they're ready for your a higher priced tier. Or, you know, if your local business that does, I don't know, I don't know something. Instead of having direct competition with other local businesses, you can shift that model just a little bit. You don't have to abandon your old model, but you shift your model and offer something new. And that could be your uncharted territory. And I feel like a lot of people get really stuck in the eye, no, this product or service is going to work. Yeah, it needs to work. It's worked for 10 years, it's going to continue to work for 10 more years. And I'm not saying that's not gonna work, but I'm saying maybe people maybe we need to market to people that aren't quite ready for that. And we need to sell them a product or service that gets them ready for your core product or offer. Absolutely. And that could be the the uncharted territory that that you lean into as well. Greg Marshall  22:33  Well, I think Do you know who? The fact that you said that reminds me of Dino Peter Thiel is, so Peter Thiel was the first investor, or one of the early investors of Facebook, okay. And he was also involved, I believe, with PayPal, okay. And he's a huge Silicon Valley. I mean, I'm pretty sure this guy's a billionaire. But anyways, you probably say This guy knows a little bit about adopting or going with the flow and how you talk about successful coaching. And I read his book, I can't remember the name of the book, but he had a book where he said, you can get a competitive advantage, even just by the sales channel or strategy that you have. Right, and that and basically, what you're saying is coming up with a new offer, or a new product, new service, or just rebranding the same thing, a different way, can really give you a competitive advantage. And even if you look at certain times, because the market changes, the demands are different in different stages, so it's safe to say right now, if you had an offer, right, you know, the make money online, you know, offer right now, or, you know, social media ads, you know, that was that was a big one, too. The new offer would be going in and saying, Hey, are you scared to death, about iOS 14 tracking, and the cookieless feature that we're, you know, about to start participating in, and I have a solution for them, that will help you, you know, quote, unquote, fix that and know exactly how your sales go. That product or service right there will sell like crazy now, that service might exist? I don't know. But I know that offer will attract a lot of people. Yeah. Because you're you're banking on what people have lost. So right now people feel like they've been stripped of their privileges have been taken away. A lot of marketers feel right. So if you can tell them that you can give them their privileges back and you're the only one you're going to get sales. Right. And that so that would be a strategy of counterintuitive if they can, well, why would I sell these people ads? When the real concern is not? I need to, you know, put together ads. The real concern is, I don't know what ads are working. Right. Right. So now that's the new offer. That's the new product. And what what's his name Alex Becker with Hi ROAs he would see, I bet you he's doing fantastic because he came out with his product. About a few months, I believe, before iOS started getting talked about right. And so he was pretty much ready to go with a great offer, knowing that people will be scared to death. Yep, let's iOS hit. And I bet you there's so many people hopped onto the service. Blake Beus  25:21  Oh, totally. If people don't know what we're talking about, he launched a product called Hieros, which helps, quote unquote, fix attribution between as channels due to losing that when iOS 14 started blocking tracking cookies and things like that. Greg Marshall  25:38  You're smart enough to know any of this even. So, could you say a little bit about what you think is happening? Blake Beus  25:44  Yeah, well, essentially, what they're doing is they're they're using some different kind of metrics and things to generate. profiles, and then match those profiles back up. The thing that's interesting is based on tests I've done and some other people have done. It performs about as good as having a good Google Ads strategy and setting up those reports. But sitting those reports is a pain in Google ads, or I'm sorry, Google Analytics and Google Analytics. Because Google Analytics does a pretty good job of tracking some of that stuff. The second thing they do is actually import some of that back into your ads manager, which Google Analytics doesn't do back into Facebook ads. Yeah. But the thing I want to Yeah, the thing I want people to understand is when when he launched this product, it wasn't perfect. Yeah, it had some bugs, it had some things, it's much better. Now. There's other products out there that solve this problem as well. But he was just really positioned, positioned nicely from a timing perspective and everything. So what I'm getting at is, you don't necessarily have to have a perfect solution. Sure. Right. What you need to have is a solution, then get feedback and perfect that over time. And if there are any bugs or issues, you can take care of that in, in the customer support and Long Term Support area. Yeah, right. Because a lot of people have, a lot of businesses have an opportunity to lean into like a new product or offer. But they stress out about not being good enough or whatever, and you don't, you don't need to worry about that stuff quite so much. You kind of need to get it out there. And then perfect as you go, it just works for local businesses, this doesn't have to be like a tech business or whatever. One great example, of of a pivot is, I work in a creative studio, having an office and I'm surrounded by lots of artists, and things like that. And a lot of them were teaching, you know, workshops or selling things. And that's kind of a pretty standard model for an artist, then they'll have some workshops where they teach their skills, and their craft, and then they'll sell their, their pieces or whatever. And then they'll have commissions, right, where someone pays them to make something specific for whatever, right a mural or a painting for an area or a statue for a hotel or something like that. When the pandemic hit, you know, through all all of that kind of out the window, the sales channel got taken away, he got taken away. And so a lot of people leaned into, like zoom classes, and that what that did is it expanded their audience from just a local business to now they could teach anybody, anywhere in the world, right? As long as the time zones matched up, and they were teaching. And, you know, so that was opportunity, but had a lot of those people leaned into that. In 2019, they could have had, there was a lot of opportunity there for these online classes. In 2020. A lot of people leaned into that, and it works. But everybody in their dog was adding into that at that time, because that was like the only way. Right. And so. So that's that's one of those those things to think about, you know how to handle timing or whatever, but it can work for local businesses. It could work for big businesses. Yeah. I mean, all the time. You see it all the time. You see it all over the place. I oftentimes because I do marketing, I think about this stuff when I go to the grocery store. Oh, yeah. I have four kids. And we're there all the time. We're shopping all the time. And unless Greg Marshall  29:11  you bill I'm sure. Blake Beus  29:15  It is. But you go to the grocery store, and you got to realize all of the packaging is marketing. Yep. And you see you'll, you'll see all these you'll see changes. You'll see people tweaking things you'll see. See Oreo. Yeah, Oreos is one of my favorites. Yeah. Because they're constantly leaning into all of these new different flavors. Yeah. And that doesn't hurt them to try out a flavor. That doesn't work. Yep. But then they do try to flavor they're like sweet that works. But then what do they do? They pull it off the shelves and then launch it again in four months. Yep. And you know what my kids do? Ah, Dad, we can't get the they have. They have the Star Spangled Banner, ones that have rocked I've had this am I kids every year now need them. They need that. They need they need them. Right. But they found I mean, it's a cook. It's a cookie. Yeah. But they found Uncharted Terry territory in an industry that's been selling cookies for? Greg Marshall  30:16  I don't know. Yeah, how many different ways to really make Blake Beus  30:19  out, but they found some ways. Yeah. And you can do that with by by switching up your product offerings as well. Greg Marshall  30:25  Well, and that's, you know, you bring up the point. And that's really why I brought up that whole Hieros thing is, here's the interesting, so I knew that Alex, you know, cuz I consume a lot of his content. I like his stuff. He was a YouTube ads guy, right. But to give you a good example, he was all about YouTube ads. I was like, forget about Facebook, it's too expensive because of at the time what he was selling. It was too competitive, like meaning not that he couldn't sell it there. Set the prices were too high. Right. So he was all about YouTube ads. But here's the interesting thing. Now I see him I never see him on YouTube. Now I ever see him is on Facebook. But guess why? Because he knows his offering is different. And he's in the space where everyone is panicking, which Facebook advertisers are on Facebook, panicking, Santa. So looking at this, so he's placing this beautifully crafted offer of I can solve your fear right now. And we just click right here and book a call right on Facebook, which is brilliant. I didn't. So I think it's a great stretch so that I brought that up, because that's basically what you're saying about counter to marketing can also be the change of the offer. It doesn't have to be location or platform based. Blake Beus  31:41  And when you change the offer, the channel might change as well. Correct. Right. And, and all of those are things you can test. And I really hope we're not kind of overwhelming people with a lot of with a lot of this stuff. It doesn't have to be overwhelming. What we're trying to do is speak in general terms, because we have a broad, yeah, listener base in all sorts of different areas. But in your area in your industry, you don't have to think super crazy about a lot of this stuff. Think about what are some ways that can change some things up? What would be the craziest thing and a lot of people, I do this with a lot of my clients, I schedule a split, I book out of time and say we are going to do nothing, we're not going to launch ads, or I'm talking about whatever, we're just going to brainstorm. Yep. And if we come if we write down 100 different angles, or ideas or areas of the site that we feel like need improvement or something, and one of them is good, that our has a huge ROI. Yep. But a lot of people don't don't take the time to just like, throw out ideas if they're crazy or not. Right. And it's, it needs to happen. I think I will Greg Marshall  32:43  I agree with that. And I think, you know, when you when you talk about that, really the you know how I love Dan Kennedy. He has a saying where he talks about most business owners do random acts of marketing, versus thinking about what they're trying to do. And, and I've been guilty of this before many, many times, which is just doing the activity versus strategically doing two different things. And sitting down and investing an hour where you do nothing but brainstorm, come up with a strategy will give you a much higher ROI than just randomly doing stuff in a panic mode. Right. Right. Blake Beus  33:28  Right. And I would say when you do that our I don't want you to look at any competitor ideas, nothing. I want you to just sit down and trust, like your intuition and your knowledge of your customers. And just throw out some crazy ideas. Yeah, throw out some crazy stuff. Greg Marshall  33:45  be a kid again. Right? And you know, I think, you know, I remember I'm big on quotes, because I like to read and I remember reading this, this lady, I think she was like 104 years old, like she was she was up there. Right. And they someone asked her what's the secret to, you know, aging so well, because I guess she still had like a lot of energy. And she was still, you know, very talkative as well. And she said, Well, the secret is to understand adults ruin everything. And to just live your whole life like a kid. Yeah. And I thought that was so impactful. And you know, I think she said it. That's not the exact phrase, but that's how I received it was it's true. When you become an adult, all of your creativity seems I get zapped out of you because you're so you're quote unquote, doing what you're supposed to do. But take some of these times to think about fewer kids again, with no responsibilities, no concerns about what other people think about you or they're gonna think you're a moron for doing this. And just take the hour it's within yourself anyway, so no one's gonna know. Yeah, and just allow yourself to be kidding and say there are no limits to what I I can try. Because what I have found we've worked with some people during brainstorming sessions is they still say, Yeah, but, but that would have worked, but But you have to look at it more like, we don't know if it'll work or not. We're just going to try it. Right. And so that's where I think brainstorming the biggest value is to get yourself in the mindset of like, pretend anything you say will work. And that it's impossible for it not to work. Yeah, just for the sake of allowing yourself because if you don't do that, you're going to give like, kind of, I don't know, boxed in ideas in your brainstorm versus just like, Yeah, let's just try some while and see what happens. Blake Beus  35:40  And it works. I've seen brands build their entire strategy around doing doing stuff like that. Well, one of my favorites, and you'll probably hear me bring them up over and over and over again, because I love how they market. It's a swim suit company for men called Chevy's. Chevy's. Yeah, never heard of No. Oh, man. Yeah, everyone should go to Instagram and check it out. Okay. But essentially, they've really leaned in hard to the the dad bod, and bring back the short shorts that are really out there. Yeah. And so a lot of their content is, is stuff from like the 80s and 90s. With like, go guys with Molex super short cut off jeans, not 1970s and 80s. And they're like, Well, you know, we need to bring the short shorts. Yeah, yeah. And they're their whole line is these just outrageously colored? swim trunks for men? Yep. And, and their ads, their social media is hilarious. Li their whole brand is centered around this ridiculous notion of short shorts. short shorts aren't going to be for everybody. They get that but they leaned in hard to the short shorts for Dad bonds. Yeah. And it's a it's a great brand and a thermal strategy. Well, Greg Marshall  36:50  I think it's a great angle. And I think, you know, one of the people, I don't know if people like or dislike this, this gentleman, but Richard Branson, to me, markets, his business, like a kid, and he does it differently, right? All this the publicity stunts and things that he does, it's like you would obviously he is not holding back when it comes to creativity and thinking like, this is not possible. But you can learn a lot from a marker like that, because, you know, he's a billionaire. And he's, he's doing things outside the box, that work. That's still within reason, right? So like, he knows, well, if I go on a hot air balloon across, you know, an ocean, people are probably gonna watch that, right? Because it's, it's out there. But you notice on his balloon, he has his brand version, right? It's one of the SARS techniques to carry T eyeballs. And, and, and the other thing is, you remember, you're like, Man, that's crazy. I can't believe he even a tip. What kind of a maniac would try that. But that's kind of the goal is he's thinking like a kid, like, you know, a six year old kid will think of an idea that and actually try to do it with no, yeah, but nothing holding them back. But you know, you try to get one of us, you know, late 30s, early 40s 50 year old, we won't even think at all to try that. And so that's where I think there's a lot of value into trying to have almost like, no, what, no inhibitions when it comes to you think about your marketing, and what you can do to actually see where the good ideas are at. Blake Beus  38:31  I love it a lot. All right, well, we'll wrap this one up, Greg, tell tell everyone how they can get in touch with who they want. Greg Marshall  38:37  Yeah. Just go to my website, Greg And that's dot CEO. And if you want to book a free strategy session, just go ahead and leave your information there. And what about you how they get in touch with you? Blake Beus  38:48  Just like the stock calm, and I basically have all my info right there. Greg Marshall  38:51  Great. Well, thanks for listening to us today. Hopefully, you came up with some good ideas. And we'll see you next week. All right.  

Monday Nov 22, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript   Blake Beus  0:00  But we're recording. Right? All right. Oh, Greg Marshall  0:06  Blake, what do you think? So you've got the topic of the day, you said this to me yesterday. And I thought, interesting timing, because I've been seeing some of these things and the ad accounts, and I've Yeah, my theories, and I have yours, Blake Beus  0:20  we're gonna talk about this. And a lot, a lot of people have a lot of crazy theories about how, you know, the algorithm, or all of these different things work. And some of those could be true, some of them might not be true, but I'm gonna read this actually word for words, so we can pick it apart, because there's been lots of discussion about what's actually going on here. So Facebook, came out with this announcement, starting today. I'm quoting, starting today, if someone does not have their Facebook and Instagram accounts linked in accounts center, we will consider those accounts as separate people for ads planning and measurement. A lot of advertisers are reading into what this might mean. And first and foremost, you might be listening to this thinking, what is account center? Yeah, and I'll be honest, I'm in Instagram, Facebook all the time. I didn't know what a cat senator was either. Yeah, I didn't even know it was a thing. Greg Marshall  1:17  Well, I've heard of it. And I also don't really know, what their meaning by Account Center, and the structuring of that. And so just hearing that makes you wonder, well, if I'm in it all day, and urine all day, how does my mom now or you know, someone who barely uses social media? Blake Beus  1:40  Exactly. And so what they're saying is, if the accounts, if your Instagram or Facebook account aren't LinkedIn account center, then they're going to count those as two separate people for reach and estimated audience size and all of these things. And based on just some loose data, I'm going to guess nearly everyone does not have those accounts, Leah, and so you might start seeing potential reach numbers go up, which would cause your CPMs to go down? Even though not really you're only reaching the same person just on different platforms, if you're running ads on both Facebook and Instagram. Greg Marshall  2:21  Well, one one thing now that you say that one thing that maybe test is when you run your ads, do more manual placement. Yeah, so actually say, Show this ad on Facebook only? And show this ad on Instagram? Oh, yeah. And just compare the reach, and then test them both together and see if they're somewhat similar. Because one of the things we talked about yesterday, the potential issue with this, I guess, from an advertiser standpoint, you know, I'm running a lot of ads. I know you run a lot of ads. You know, the CPM is one of the numbers, the CPMs, which is the cost for the traffic has gone up. I also find it conveniently coincidental that it's happening during the most expensive time of the year. Yeah. Which is the fourth quarter Hmm. Which makes me think advertisers must be either leaving the platform or panicking about the cost of the traffic that they're getting. Yeah, that maybe they're the there's a change to make it to make us advertisers possibly feel slightly better about what we're spending, right. And I I get both sides do not want to make it sound like everything is always bad on one side. And we're the you know, the good side versus the bad, but more of what is what are the incentives? What should we be paying attention to? And just kind of like the episode, we just did control what we can control? Yeah. And try to make the best of what's available to us. So that's, that's kind of my thoughts. But what are your thoughts about that? That's my first thought is, if they want to drive CPMs down, and it's the fourth quarter. It's just coincidental that this change is happening right now. Blake Beus  4:08  Yeah, well, I think, I don't know some people read into things and think this is could be nefarious or whatever, I don't know, maybe, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But the fact of the matter is, is businesses all the time try to present their products and services in the best light. And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. I mean, I go to the grocery store, and I see I see, you know, now with 20%, more or whatever I like, there's all of these triggers. And I don't go to the grocery store and think, oh my gosh, I'm being manipulated everything. For a long, long, long time. Facebook has been known amongst the world of marketers as, as a platform, you can get really cheap reach, right for a long time and a lot of advertisers over the years because of that have almost all their experience on Facebook only and haven't explored other platforms. Google, I will tell you right now, every every campaign I've ever run on Google, the CPMs are higher than they have been on Facebook. But now that Facebook CPMs are going up and up and up. Facebook might be thinking their advertisers are looking at other platforms like Google or, or LinkedIn, or Tik Tok or something like that, and and exploring those platforms and, and Facebook is maybe saying, Okay, well, we're going to maybe make these numbers look look a little bit better, whatever. I don't know, I love your idea of running traffic to other each platform, right? Because the reality is, is that while these numbers might mean something slightly different than what you think they mean, the or they meant in the past. As a good and non lazy marketer, you should be testing things anyway. Yeah, and so go ahead and test this out. And honestly, we change brings opportunity, we literally recorded a podcast about this, which you probably are going to listen to him out of order anyway. Because of published dates, but the this, this change is yet another chance for opportunity. And if you're testing a specific ad account, you might have an ad account that performs significantly better with the change, you might have an ad account that that performs worse with this change. Or you might have an ad account that this change doesn't impact hardly at all. Yeah, but you won't know that unless you do some testing, you test on either platform to see what's going on there. And really, that's what we want people to do, you want to be data driven, because there's no hard and fast rules about any of this stuff. It all really depends on your account, the data in your account, the offer, the language, and the wording and everything. And, and that just goes to show and we ought to probably take a step back and talk about that. We talk about it a lot. But this is another opportunity to maybe reevaluate your offer, maybe re evaluate your hook, maybe evaluate your image or the video or some of those strategies or your strategies, right, take a chance to look at the psychology side of things. And and maybe peel back away from the numbers just a little bit. Focus on some of those, the messaging and the hook and all that stuff. Greg Marshall  7:10  Well, I think you're right on when it comes to change. This is how you hit the harder I guess, you know, the harder quote unquote, tracking becomes, the harder everything becomes because we've had it made for the last few years that it's like, we're like spoiled children. Now we've got everything we've ever wanted. And now it's being taken away from us, and how dare they but I think it's a good thing, because the opportunities will, will pretty much present themselves. Because if things get harder, that means more people quit. That means more people try to move to other things, more of the people that maybe are taking up all of the space and the oxygen and the ad inventory. We'll try something else. Yeah. Just because it's not as easy. And if you're if you're, I guess you could if you consider yourself a professional, and whatever it is you do, then you have to be committed to learning adjusting, even when it hurts to get better at whatever it is that you know is in front of you and things are going to constantly change. This is not the last change, we're going to see, we're always going to see constant change. And so I think, mindset wise, we should be thinking about how can we take advantage of these changes that are happening? And what can we do to separate ourselves from everyone else? Because usually, people become more successful when these types of changes happen. When there's opportunities where people see what does that quote, opportunity is worth disguise or whatever. You know, I'm talking about, I actually haven't heard that. There's a quote, and I don't even know if it's really said by Henry Ford, but I think so put it up, which is like, opportunity is disguised as hard work. Right? And I think this is one of these scenarios where you're going to see more marketers kind of panic, leave or get upset, because it's not like it used to be right. But the opportunity is in understanding, well, this is great. There's probably not a new opportunity because these changes have happened. Blake Beus  9:16  Right? Right. And this reminds me of one of my favorite quotes. And I don't even know who said this. And but it's lazy marketers make lazy money. Yep. And this is an opportunity to to really take a step back and evaluate things. So if I were to if I had a client come to me, they showed me this article, and they said, Hey, what should I do? What should I do? I have a couple of ideas. And I would love to pick your brain? Well, the first thing I would say is use this as an opportunity, opportunity to diversify your strategy. If you're not using YouTube ads, let's use some YouTube ads. If you're not using LinkedIn ads, let's try out some LinkedIn ads. And that would be the that's where my mind goes first and foremost. But Greg, if you had a client that came to you and said, I'm sorry freaking out about this this is Facebook being shady whatever, well, what would you say to them? How we should proceed to move forward? Greg Marshall  10:06  Well, the first thing I would say is, remember, your business is your business. And these are just traffic sources. And so if they make a change our job or your job as the business owner is to adjust your strategy, and what you need to do in order to move forward right and project out. So So the answer would be, well, if the tracking, isn't there, what does that tracking mean? Anyways, because if you're using ultra precise tracking, and overly relying on that, and not thinking about building a full system, a full marketing system that happens all the time, then your business is actually probably more flawed than the traffic source. And the problem there. Right? That makes sense? Because if if, let's say, if I started a business, where I'm just like, Well, I'm just gonna only leverage the algorithm of these platforms. Well, if that's the case, I don't have a true business, because I'm only relying on that source of traffic, right? I'm not actually building a business, which is systems and people and processes and procedures, focus on the fundamentals, anytime you see changes that happen with traffic sources, or whatever it is that we're all accustomed to using. And we don't want to change. Always go back to what are the fundamentals? Right? What is my business? What is? How do I serve the customer? And just think, well, how can I get because all these platforms really are our messaging platforms? How do I get a message to get in front of someone that I want to do business with? Yeah, so if you just look at it that way, and just go, alright, well, if I can't get my message out this way, what's a different way that I can get my message out, you just have to be you got to be flexible, agile, and you just have to move and go, This don't work today. I guess I have to try something. Blake Beus  11:56  Right. And, and it's, it can be an opportunity to really, really think differently about this. One of my favorite examples of this is actually talked about this briefly on another podcast. But there's this guy in the tech space in the marketing space. And he noticed that a lot of his ideal and perfect clients were using WordPress as a yes, website platform. And they were using a specific plugin for WordPress. And he's like, okay, so I have I have some money, where do I invest this? This plugin hadn't really had a lot of updates in a while. So we just contacted the developer and said, Can I buy the rights to this plugin for it? Can I buy it from you and maintain it myself with my team and everything? And they they struck a deal, and I don't know how much they paid for that deal. But they struck a deal. And now this guy's plug in on the next update. He updated it fixed a few bugs and everything. But now he's got a little link in there that says, you know, hey, this plugin is brought to you by, you know, I think his name's Noah Keegan. Okay, again, yeah, the guy. Okay, dork is website. This plug is brought to you by Noah Kagan. You know, contact me if you want to chat or whatever, just like a super soft call to action. And I don't know how much that traffic he got out of that. But that plug in right there probably got in front of, you know, 10 or 20,000 of his ideal clients, innovative market. That's innovative marketing. And there's lots of different ways you can be innovative like that, another innovative way that literally anyone can do because you might be thinking, Okay, well, I don't have a team of developers. And I don't know what platform people use, and I can't maintain a plugin. Another innovative idea is this is old school. But you just contact another business that's in a related field, or even a business that might be a direct alternative to your business, and say, Hey, let's do some sort of combined promotion, let's because I know you have your customers, I have mine, there's plenty of pie out there for everyone. If you have a bigger slice, that doesn't mean I have a smaller slice, let's be collaborative. And let's let's put together some sort of collaborative promotion. And we'll email both of our lists or we'll post it on both of our socials or something Greg Marshall  14:05  elaborations I couldn't agree with you more like, we're gonna go I like I use the term old school, right, which is essentially a different way of saying, getting back to work. Yeah. Right. So instead of letting everything else do the work for us, we have to get back to work, which is Dan Kennedy. And you know, this, I say this all the time is my absolute favorite marketer of all time, because I think he calls it how it is. And his principles are just fundamentals. Right. And so, one of the things that I learned from listening to his programs for years is he had like this drawing of how in the center of your business, right, like the center is your business, and then almost like, like car tire spokes, you have all these different sources of traffic and ways to generate leads and your job as the business owner. To continuously build that wheel, because you never want to make yourself susceptible to one way of getting business, right, right. And so that's why if you're doing the fundamentals and always remembering that we are borrowing these platforms, and that we do not own them, that we need to be grateful that they're available to us, but also be aware that they can be taken away from us as well. So our job is not faceless job, or YouTube's job to make sure that Greg feels comfortable every day that he can grow his business. Right, right. It's Greg's job to figure out if this traffic source isn't available, what would happen if this got canceled, or that or this wasn't available, and you and your job is to keep building that wheel? And that's how that for whatever reason that always stuck with me is like, that makes sense. Because we've all had, you know, times in our lives where you overly rely on one thing, and then it's gone. You panic. Yeah. And you're like, Oh, my now what my whole thing is built on that. Right. Blake Beus  16:02  Right. Well, and it also, one of the thoughts that came to my mind when you were talking about this wheel, because I love that visualization is, is some spokes of that wheel are only going to reach certain types of people. Correct. But you could have and probably do, I think every business does, has a large, large, large audience out there, that isn't on that particular spot exactly. Or isn't participating in a way that where they would even show up on that particular spoke, right. And a great example of this, I think, is upper level management. If you have a product or a service that is geared towards someone in an upper level management position, think VP, CEO of a medium sized company, I'll be honest, guys, they're not on Facebook. Yep, most of those people don't even have social media, especially if they, if they're a larger company, because their trend, they're probably trending a little bit older in age or whatever. And they just don't have the time for Facebook or Instagram, right? Or they just don't value or they just don't care. Yeah, they don't care about there. They're doing completely different things. And so you need to get a little bit more creative. They might be hanging out on LinkedIn, but they might, they might not be using any social media platform. So you might be thinking, Okay, how do I, how do I get in touch with these people, and that's where maybe you go to trade shows or conventions or, or you go to events that are related to what you're offering, and try to meet some people face to face. There's there's a lot of ways to think about it. But you might be spending time focused on one spoke and spending money focused on one spoke and leaving out all of these other opportunities Anyway, Greg Marshall  17:42  well, and that that actually you bring up another Dan Kennedy point, which this is why I believe in this strategy, he says, he says, well, people say newspaper advertising or direct mail, or whoever platform it is that's considered old school is dead. And he says, not if you're trying to talk to older people with money, what if you're trying to talk to a six year old, that needs to spend a lot of money? Yeah, they're not going to be on any of these other platforms, they're only going to be able to be reached through newspaper, or direct mail, or any of the things that are, quote unquote, out of style, right. And that put a light bulb in my head, because that makes you understand, you have to keep building these spokes. And each spoke is an asset that's valuable to you. And even if it's only short term, that's okay. Because your job is to continuously build the spokes. And so one of the ways that I like to think about because I'm considered b2b A lot, right? So I'm looking for the CEO, upper level management person. And one of the ways that I understand is, I'm not going to find that person on Facebook, I know that, or Instagram, or even sometimes LinkedIn, or Google or YouTube ads. I'm going to find that person through a presentation. So old school chamber of commerce, trade shows, find a way to speak in front of an audience. It usually consists of those types of people, and you'll be able to pick up those clients and that's a spoke. Yeah, public speaking is a spoke. Yeah. tradeshows. That's another sort of podcasting. That's another one. So you have to keep building the spokes or else you're putting your business and your livelihood in jeopardy because you're you're you're pretty much very vulnerable if you don't have these because you can break down at any moment. If you're only using one or two. Blake Beus  19:35  Yeah, yeah. I think I think it's worth pointing out to you have fast spokes and slow Yes, yes. So I'm laughing over here cuz that sounds like Slowpoke and yeah, for some reason that just really started. Yeah, yes. But, and, and the other thing to think about too, is on any one of those spokes, you you have people that are willing to buy right now versus people that are willing to buy buy later down the road. And we talked, we talked about this. I mean, one of the things I've been playing around with my email list, my email list is full of nothing but buyers. Yeah, for the most part. Yeah. And people that have bought from me in the past, and I've been playing around with different ways to market to that list. I've sent out very direct messages saying, hey, sign up for my new program, which is the new offer the offer? I'm kind of promoting right now sign up for my SM three program. And I will get signups. Yep. And then I sent out this last week of last couple weeks have been sending out basically very soft offers saying hey, here's this free training. And it's literally just a training that I'm just telling you how to do something, it's not a sales video disguised as a training, it's literally a training. And at the very end, I just say, Hey, if you want to chat further about this, or whatever, click the link below. And it's a link to my sales pitch. And I get signups those people also saw my first emails but didn't take action. But then they saw this training and then did take action. And so it's it's like even though you have a particular channel, email, marketing, Facebook, whatever, you need to understand that people are gonna respond in different ways to different types of messaging, those channels and different in different times and everything. And so you really want to have, we've talked about all the time, more holistic approach, and you really want to be in addition to paid advertising channels, you really want to be marketing in channels where you can't measure the success. Yeah, because that's where oftentimes a lot of the real gold is is in those channels. And that's honestly one of the reasons we're doing podcaster podcasting is one of those platforms, we see the number of downloads, yep, sort of, because because of how, how podcasting works, some platforms will pull in and consume your podcast hosted on their servers, and then you might get 10,000 downloads on that server. And that never gets reported back to our dashboard, we have no idea we really have no idea how many views we're getting, or downloads we're getting on this. And we don't know if people are clicking on the links in the in it are going to whatever, it's there's not a lot of visibility there. But it is a very profitable channel, if done, right. Yeah. And there's other channels like Greg Marshall  22:13  that? Well, and the thing about channels is this, the measuring part will be more and more challenging as we move forward, especially if you're using digital. And that's why if you use a full system, you want to just look at the return on your system. Because the system is the biggest asset. It's kind of like if you look at as a car, you could say, well, what's more important the wheel that you're steering or the wheels on the ground? Or the engine? Well, it's kind of all of them, right? Like we can't like limit one or the other to try to quote unquote, optimize you need at all. And so one of the, you know, these channels where you have to look at it as if you're investing and more and more channels, one channel, could we could do a podcast, we can get one sale, it can make us $25,000 each year. Yeah. With a contract, that channel has now become profitable, right? Well, we got one purchase, right? But it's worth Yeah, right. But we never would have got it unless we invested in the channel. Right? And so that's why each channel you have to look at is there's potential to make a return and many different ways. And just the instant today, which is what everyone's after the that I need the return today. And that's it. Blake Beus  23:28  Yeah. And really, what you want is kind of a mix of the of the boat in the cash infusion today. Yep. But then long, longer term strategies to help build and grow over time. And I'll be very transparent and blunt, one of the biggest issues I had early on with my business was I was focusing just on the very immediate cash return types of types of work, and not so much on the longer term, you know, types of marketing channels, and it made it made 2020 really suck. Greg Marshall  24:02  Yeah, and I think and once they use the word that's important balance, yeah. Because being overly one or the other, can get you in trouble. So if you're overly cash flow today, only then you're you're sacrificing the future. Right? If you're only the future, you got nothing today. Yeah. Right. And so you have to have a balance of like, how do I make returns now? While also thinking about how do I make returns in the future? And that's, that's like the million dollar question, right? How do you set that up? And I believe it's building out your wheel getting all your traffic sources and and really committing to building a marketing system. And not just like a system and every other aspect but the marketing right or the sales but really taking it just as serious like the marketing and the sales is like the car is just you know the wheel that you're steering is just as important as the wheels on the ground. And everything needs to be paid attention to you can't ignore half the car or whatever, if you want the car to actually work. And so that's how you want to look at your entire businesses. Not only customer management, process man assistance, man, but also sales and marketing management. How do we get all of these to work together? So the car can last 20 3040 years instead of it work? Yeah, a works today, I took this one tire off, and I drove a little faster for 10 miles. But then the problem was, I couldn't go anywhere, right? Where I'm driving the car too fast. And it burns out and I got to go to the shop. So that's just kind of my thought process about balancing today. Yeah. And the futures it you have to have a balance. And it's a continuous thing, because sometimes we can all get overly seduced by you know, the gambling aspect of making money today. Yeah. And forgetting about oh, yeah, well, what about 10 years from now? Yeah. Are the diseases are making trade and Blake Beus  26:04  hurt 10 years? Yeah. And it, it reminds me, it reminds me of this. Well, I see it all the time, I see people chasing the shiny new object, right? One One, quote, shiny new object I've heard and it's just new to me, is this concept. And we'll probably do something on this in the future. Because I think it's an interesting subject, I'd like to pick your brain on it. But it's this concept called Dark funnels, or dark social and, and it's a cool name that I'm super jealous of, because Nina was hard, right? Like, but, um, the concept is, is this essentially social media marketing efforts that you can't track you have visibility into and so that things like, you know, commenting in LinkedIn groups, or Facebook groups, or something like this, and one of the guys is pushing this really hard, his messages. If I were to start my business all over right now, I would focus on nothing but dark, whatever. And I'm like, that's, that's great. Greg Marshall  26:57  I guess that's probably a little too extreme. But anyway, Blake Beus  27:01  it is I'm like, I, this is where we start talking about balance. And I know why he's doing it, because that's what his consulting company does, right. And it's so much easier to talk about and push one specific concept and idea than it is to talk about things holistically. But things are aren't just, here's the one solution, everything. And marketers love to do that, like, this is a one way one fix this will fix everything. But the reality is is, is if you focus just on those things, you'll probably get a sale here and there. And your growth will be super slow, especially if you're starting out. In fact, that's probably not sustainable at all, if you're just starting out. Yeah. And so I feel like a lot of this, this is the journey I feel like a lot of businesses has, especially if they're kind of like in my core area where someone is there, they do the solar entrepreneur and start growing some things, they, they oftentimes will start off with this. Nothing but organic growth, I don't want to spend any money on ads, nothing more, but organic growth. And so they focus on posting and all of these things, and that's great. But their growth is slow. And then they are they start realizing well, you know, let's run some ads to push to an offer, and they start getting that immediate cash and like, sweet, I'm gonna do nothing. But as I focus all my time on ads, and that's great. And that can get you to a point and you start getting all these different followers and everything. But then when your your, you know, business overhead starts to increase, sometimes that model is less sustainable. So you need to hire on some additional staff or something like that. Now you're not as profitable as you once were, because you have this built in overhead. And and then they get to the point where they think, Okay, now what do I do, and this is where the wheel comes in. If you can focus on these wheel, the wheel and the spokes and think about things from a more holistic standpoint, then then you'll be better off as you go. And the one thing I want people to understand is, you don't need to feel overwhelmed about this, you feel like you need to have 5050 spokes on your wheel right now. And And honestly, this is what both you and I talk with a lot of our clients about and why we get hired by is we can help them focus on Okay, let's focus on these two spokes right now. And then in three, four months, we'll add these other two or three spots. And so you're not overwhelmed. Because you can only do so much. Yeah, there are ways to prioritize what you're working on, and how to focus on that. And honestly, I mean, if anybody has any questions about your specific thing, feel free to reach out to us as well. Yeah, Greg Marshall  29:19  I mean, I think to one of the, the big. I consider myself one of the boringness marketers on the planet. And the reason why I say that is because I feel like the a lot of the ideas and concepts that I try to push are not what people really want to hear. Right. Just like exercise that we talked about with content creation. A lot of these things are, you know, we're talking about building systems. That doesn't sound very fun. We're building sustainability, long term growth. None of that sounds fun for anyone because we want it today, right? But I think it's the best method to growing things because if you can get your mindset into thinking about focus on a few things at a time, get it strong, like you're building a house, right? And get it strong, and then put the next piece of the house on. Right, make sure that's strong and then put it and before you know you've got a whole house. Yeah. And it's built very firm. You know, it's not, the house of cars is not going to just fall down because everything was built, you know, either inefficiently or not thought through, or you just didn't put the time and effort you tried to. You're too impatient, try to rush through it. Right, right. And I've run into that before. So I'm speaking from experience, not from I just woke up one day and knew this. In fact, I got burned by thinking the opposite way, which is why this is pushed me really hard into this strategy. And I just know that it's, it works. And you do have to pay attention to all this, folks. You have to be intentional. You have to be focused and discipline. All of those words, I just use I know you don't want to hear but, but it's true. And it's needed. If you want to have a successful business where you're marketing, and you can sustain it. Blake Beus  31:08  Yeah, absolutely. Well, in closing, Greg, how can people reach out to you if you can Greg Marshall  31:13  just go to our website, Greg You can book a free strategy call go over any market ideas, and we're by Blake Beus  31:21  Yeah, just blink, be calm and reach out to me there. You can sign up on my email list. I have a couple of cool freebies. And you can even read about more about the membership program. I haven't called SM three. But yeah, we'll check. We'll check you guys later. All right, thanks.  

Wednesday Nov 17, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript Blake Beus  0:02  Okay, we're recording right recording. So, Greg, before before we hit the record button, we do this too many times we were talking about yes, search engine optimization or SEO, but specifically YouTube, SEO. And we both have a ton of thoughts on this you've actually been experimenting with with your own YouTube content on this. So, so tell people what you've been kind of experimenting on. And we will hash out some other ideas and plans and some things. Greg Marshall  0:27  Yeah. So I mean, one of the things is, I've been creating video content for a very long time for years now. And but one of the things that I have lacked is an actual SEO strategy, right? So I use my video content in very specific way to attract, you know, my audience and generate business. But one thing that I haven't paid attention to is the is Search, YouTube search, and how to actually maximize that. And so recently, I've been testing and you've inspired me to do this, this, so I'm going to give you credit for that. I want to make sure everyone knows that Blake actually inspired me to do this. But recently, I've been testing different strategies for YouTube search. And right now I've been doing what they call like newsjacking, which is whatever is the trend right now. Right? For example, we just had a big boxing fight on Saturday. And, you know, Tyson fury and Deontay Wilder was was the fight. So I utilized their event, basically, and then created a video that's related to so that it could pop up in the search. And I've done that a couple times. I've also done it with my team, the Baltimore Ravens, Lamar Jackson. And I've noticed that the search traffic on my channel daily has increased and it's in it's starting to increase more and impact other videos. And so that's just something that I'm seeing that's working. And I'm, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on like, yeah, search engine strategy, what you should be doing, and just in general, what should people be doing? Blake Beus  1:57  Yeah, yeah, I love the term newsjacking. It's one I actually haven't heard for a long time. A lot of people don't know, when I first started in the tech world, my very first job was Search Engine Optimization. For an E commerce brand based out of here, Utah, that is no longer around. But it was back in the day when we went to rank well, you had to have like 20 different websites with all the contents. We're managing content for all these different websites. But I'm glad that's gone. Quick story right along newsjacking when you guys remember when the Tesla truck was announced, and Elon, yes, did this thing. And he's like the the windows are bulletproof and has some holidays. And it breaks a window. One One marketer I saw and I was so jealous, I didn't come up with this idea. But he came out he dropped a video that was essentially titled, The real reason the Tesla truck window broke and talked about how, how, in his opinion, the window broke on purpose, because it generated a ton of news stories. And one thing that Elon Musk is insanely good at is generating buzz. And he knows he knows that a lot of people like to make fun of wealthy billionaires failing on stage. Yep. But he also knows that that will come back to him in money long term in Tesla truck sales, because there'll be able to say, well, we got it fixed, guys. I don't know if that's the exact reason why I broke but I wouldn't put it past Elon Musk to do something like that, that that's definitely something that I could see him do. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, um, so yeah, I mean, let's just talk about SEO and YouTube, SEO. So YouTube, SEO has been gaining popularity for years, you know? And there's, there's a few different reasons. First of all, there's so much content to SEO competition in the Google search engine. But Google, I don't know exactly when they did this is probably a couple of years ago, started showing relevant videos up above every single other search, search result out there. And so you can kind of shortcut your search engine results if you have good video content. And you've nailed your YouTube SEO, because then Google will say, Hey, this is a relevant video for these types of searches. We're going to bump this up above every other content out there. So if you're trying to compete against 1000s of different bullet bloggers, not all those people are creating videos because it's so it's more work. It's more intimidating. Like I get that it. But Google tends to reward you for that value content, and you can get get all the way up there. Not only that, YouTube in and of itself. A lot of people think of it as a video platform. Well, honestly, first and foremost is a search engine. Yes. That's how most people interact with YouTube these days. They don't go into YouTube and hit their subscription list and just start watching videos in there. They go to YouTube, and they're searching for answers to a question that they have. And while YouTube is massive, Google search engine is 1000 times larger. Yep. And so it's easier to rank and get good traffic, high quality traffic by nailing your YouTube SEO. Greg Marshall  4:55  Yes. And you know what, I have a very specific question because we talked about right for the record button went on. So I wanted to make sure that we touched. So you mentioned that I create, let's say, I have hundreds of videos on my channel, right? And some of them have done well, and some of them don't have as many views. My thought is, it's probably the title and the description, like it's just not optimized. Is there any value to going back and changing these titles? And are there any like do's and don'ts? Blake Beus  5:28  Yeah, absolutely. Go back and change those titles. It's not gonna hurt anything. If it's a video, that's, that's got good content, but it's not seeing the views you think you think you should be getting? Go ahead and change those titles? It seems I don't have any super, you know, concrete evidence of this. But it seems like if you go into your backlog of videos and give it a little bit of a refresher with some new thumbnails, and some new description, text and a new title, that YouTube seems to toss that into, like a more recent algorithm, gossan, whatever, and see if those those edits can generate some, but if they do, you can, you can actually get quite quite a bit more traffic. The the one thing that's very interesting about YouTube content, I mean, some content is gets stale pretty quick, but a lot of YouTube content, you can have high views on that year after year after year. If it's if it's the right kind of content, and so you can take a video that's two years old, swap out the thumbnail, swap out the title text to give it a better, you know, SEO SEO position, improve the description and see a big bump in that one of the people I've seen, and I'm so bad at remembering names, but the guy that runs a website, that's okay, dork doc. Oh, yeah. No, I Unknown Speaker  6:45  think it's Noah. Noah Kagan. Yeah. Yeah, someday, yeah. Yah, yah. Blake Beus  6:50  He has a bunch of YouTube content out there and everything. And I remember listening to an interview of him a year or so ago. And one of the strategies he was experimenting with was going back and changing the old titles. And every single time he got a big boost, he Greg Marshall  7:07  got a boost interest is that, and I've seen, I've watched this cause I think he has great content. And I hope I'm saying his name, right, Noah Kagan or something like that. But he's, I know, he's he's legit. Mark. I know, you started. Facebook. I think it was his first. Blake Beus  7:22  Yeah, he started Facebook. And then he I think he runs app Sumo. Yes. Right now and has has, you know, bought some WordPress plugins to mean, you know, keep them maintained properly and a few other things. And yeah, he's got his hands in in quite a few different buckets right Greg Marshall  7:40  now. Well, he's definitely a smart marketer. That's for sure. So alright, so So you're talking about YouTube search? What about what's the impact of descriptions? Like? Is there any value into having a short description, long description, does it matter? Blake Beus  7:58  It definitely matters less than the title, the title and the thumbnail are what make people click. In fact, there's a lot of YouTubers right now, that will, if their bigger channel, right, they'll they'll drop their new video, and then they'll watch it for the first hour or so. And after 30 minutes, and it gets maybe 10,000 views or whatever, they'll swap out the title and the thumbnail and see if they get a bump in views. If so, that's how they split test their title down now. Got it. Descriptions are probably less important. But you definitely need to have some sort of good description, if people are interested in your content, they're going to be dropping into the descriptions. I don't know about your browsing behavior. But when I'm on YouTube, I almost always if it's an interesting video, almost always hop in the description to to check out some additional FEMA saying Greg Marshall  8:44  I do the same and just to see what it's about, or if there's any additional links to you know, go to the website and learn more. So I think so that's, that's very interesting. So there's no I guess, negative really to changing the titles. If it's not getting the it almost to me, it makes more sense to optimize. Yeah, more than anything, right. Yeah, absolutely. Blake Beus  9:05  Absolutely. I mean, we talk about algorithms, everybody talks about algorithms all the time, and a lot of people get it wrong, but algorithms do kind of define a big portion of content consumers lives mine as well. I consume a lot of content also. And you have to keep that in mind when you're changing titles and things to try to give the algorithm the indicators that might might help it determine what types of people that content is valuable for and you got to realize too, you're dealing with the viewers are not just numbers, they're actual people. And so this is where I happen to the you know, behavioral economics or psychological sales or whatever. You you've got to kind of figure out when someone sees that what makes them click Yes on on the video and you know, I actually dove in deep on this a little bit because YouTube SEO is is super good. but it's not technically SEO. I mean, I guess it is. But the thumbnail is super, super, super important you want the thumbnail to be to to incentivize people to click data. And so you see a lot of strategies and patterns out there of like the face, you see like the surprise face, you see this surprise face, maybe you'll see like an arrow pointing to something that you can't quite see you want to click on it, or something circled that you're like you can't see or, or, you know, something along those lines. Obviously, some of them feel a bit more click Beatty than others, but you can do it in a in a good way that promotes value. And everything that will get someone to click in the thumbnail is one of the best ways to do that's a very visual platform. Greg Marshall  10:47  Do you know any statistics on what is considered a good click through rate on YouTube? Like a good click through rate on a YouTube thumbnail? That's something I think I know click through rates on ads and everything else but I don't actually know the the click the click through rate number that you should be trying striving to achieve on YouTube. Yeah, you Blake Beus  11:10  know what, that's gonna be one of those things. I'm gonna have to go look up. I don't I don't know if that information is given to you in the YouTube creation platform. I mean, if you pay for YouTube ads, yeah, you get that number. But I don't know. I don't know if YouTube in their analytics for just a regular video. Give you the impressions and the click throughs. You can occasionally Greg Marshall  11:32  you know what? I don't know. Maybe they've had it forever. But I have seen it. Really? Yeah. And I and it does show like impressions the click through rate. But I don't know what is considered a good click through rate gotcha for YouTube. I just know, like if I base off ads, but ads are different, because you're essentially forcing it Blake Beus  11:51  and you're targeting targeting people. Yeah, you know, Greg Marshall  11:56  like the most likely you're gonna like, hit your target. But this is more like a wide net that's been cast. So yeah, maybe that's something we look up. And Blake Beus  12:04  yeah, we gotta we got to look that up and circle back, I will say, more is better. Greg Marshall  12:08  Yeah, absolutely. The higher the number, the better, right. So Blake Beus  12:12  even if you don't know that for your channel, or whatever, just look at kind of what the average is for your channel and start playing around with things and see what you can get, you can get to beat to be better on Greg Marshall  12:22  that can almost be like a video game. Right? You're trying to gamify it? Yeah, Blake Beus  12:26  I mean, it's, uh, gamifying things is super important to help keep keeping people motivated. So that's one of those things you could look at and say, Okay, we're just going to kind of play this game. So you will get that click through rate to be up to. And the reality is, like industry standards and things, it's going to vary widely. So sometimes you just need to go figure out your own damn data. Greg Marshall  12:45  Yep. You know, yeah, well, I think the the other thing question I had is, is there anything that negatively impacts you in the algorithm? Like, if it's to click Beatty? Like, do you ever do you know, people get penalized for that at all? Or? Or does it matter? Blake Beus  13:00  I can, I can see if that's not happening. Now. I can see that happening in the future. Okay, but the one thing you got to realize is, YouTube knows a lot about your video. They they it's not like the video itself is this black hole? Right? Yeah, the algorithm can actually see what the content is on your video and make some intelligent guesses. First, the frequent transcription isn't for your benefit, Greg, or my benefit is for the algorithms benefit got it right. And so they know what you're talking about in the video, they know all of the content inside the video from a text perspective that can then be used for searching or whatever got. The second thing is, is they they do have some basic image detection that they can determine inside of a video kind of what the content is got. So if you're talking about I don't know how to make potatoes, you know, big potatoes or something, and your video is about bananas. You don't know it'll know that, that you have nothing. Unknown Speaker  13:58  Right? Like Blake Beus  14:00  and so but if it's like a talking head style video, that doesn't matter quite so much because you're not you're not showing images of the things right there. The other thing they they know too is they know they use indicators a lot. So are people watching the whole video? Are they watching this part of the video are they click on the video in the first 10 seconds, they're bouncing? They know that even if all the SEO aspects are good, if the engagement in that area isn't good, then they'll demote the video got it so you'll notice a and this is a standard storytelling pattern but you'll notice the videos that do really really well I'm talking the videos that consistently have from creators that consistently have you know, millions of views each video you'll notice that they always start the story in the middle Yeah, right. And and tease the the end results but not tell you the NBL or they always start with some sort of a surprise that's that happens in the middle of the story. And then they then they go back to the story they tell the whole story and you see literally the exact same content that you saw in the first five seconds, but it happens that maybe minute five or six or something like that. And then they take that through to conclusion. That's a very standard storytelling pattern. You see this in movies all the time, you see this everywhere. And you can very easily do it on short form videos like YouTube shorts, or tick tock videos, or Instagram reels. And you can do it on a little bit longer form videos, like a longer form, you know, 10 minute YouTube video or something like that. But you know, if you're talking about your, your ravens, yep, that that one, and you're talking about how that ties to marketing, you know, you could start in the middle of the story, some something talking about how how this, this unbelievable thing happened right before the end of the fourth quarter that send it into overtime, and you were blown away and couldn't believe and it made you not be able to sleep at night. And then you go back to the first of the story, you talk about how that story got set up and everything. And then the second half of the story. You talk about after the this incredible thing that happened, you talk about how that ties into marketing. Boom, you've got this very addictive. Yeah, storytelling that is, is interesting and valuable, and will get a large watch through right, Greg Marshall  16:07  you know, you bring up storytelling to you. I think one of the indirect benefits of doing video marketing, especially if you're trying to improve your results on the search is it's actually practice for public speaking, for communication for different ways for people to actually share their message, because I've noticed the more videos that I've done over time, it's helped me communicate better because it helps you with figuring out what you should be talking about what's the most important etc, etc. So second indirect benefit to really trying to get higher watching rates. Blake Beus  16:43  Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's, it's just about getting confident on camera, getting confident front of people, and you get better at a lot of these things. I I read somewhere that one of the biggest determining factors for high level executives, as to how high they will go in a company once they hit like the upper middle management is how good they are a public speaking or how good they are at present, presenting like a story and storytelling and everything. We're we're very enamored as humans by people that can tell a good story that has some sort of principles that we can we can take away. I mean, it's you see that theme over and over and over throughout the whole history of humanity. Yep. The the people that are good at storytelling are the are the people that we kind of look up to? Yeah. And if you look at anybody, some of the some of the big players out there, you've got, you know, Tony Robbins, yeah, the guy tells stories like nobody's business you got Gary Vee is always telling stories, even if it's a very short form story. You know, I remember once see, he had this very short video about supporting the original hustle. And yes, it starts by this lemonade stand. And then you know, buys, buys them out talks with them, whether they're business or whatever. And it's like the super short story with a bunch of, you know, context surrounding literally everybody's thought about sorry, yes. Greg Marshall  18:00  I still think about, Blake Beus  18:03  sometimes I feel like thrown in my hand. But yeah, storytelling is a super important one. And that's very vital for, you know, YouTube, SEO Greg Marshall  18:13  for data. So with YouTube, SEO, pretty much like a good recap is work on your titles. Do you know if a longer shorter title is better or worse, Blake Beus  18:26  it doesn't really matter, as long as it's catchy. But if it's too long, it'll get it'll get cut off, and you won't be able to see it in certain views. So that's the only thing I would say, to keep in mind. Greg Marshall  18:35  Got it. And then description and make sure you have somewhat of a description, to at least tell YouTube what the video is about, even though it can read your video probably more information for the algorithm the better. And what about tags, tags? Blake Beus  18:51  You know, tags are basically like hashtags in other places. And that's actually something I haven't delved into a ton. If I had to guess, I would guess that YouTube cares a whole lot, a whole lot more about your title and your thumbnail. And then the indicators, meaning watch through rate and click through rate. And those things than they do about the tags tags are, are too easy to just like throw in there. And then it's almost almost every content platform out there. They start with tags, and then they kind of deprioritize how important those are. And you see that right now with Instagram, hashtags. They're they're very much D. D. D, prioritizing. Greg Marshall  19:31  Yes. Blake Beus  19:32  How much reach you get from your hashtags right Greg Marshall  19:34  now, back in the day used to be able to get a lot of blogs, and then, you know, over the years, probably because everything always gets abused eventually. Right? Well, Blake Beus  19:43  and that's a very easy thing to abuse. You can sit down there and think about all these hashtags, related hashtags and take five minutes and you've got all these hashtags, but that was that was easy, right? You want to do the harder thing you want to do the thing that takes a little bit more effort because everybody in their dog can do the easy thing. Yep. The people that are putting Just a tiny bit more effort, we'll see significant Greg Marshall  20:02  more data word. Got it? And what about like with? Do you think there's any influence on what about outside reach? Meaning? Let's say you have a YouTube video is getting watching pretty well. But it's getting shared a lot on websites like places outside of YouTube. Do you think that impacts search in any way? Does it give it more value? Blake Beus  20:26  I would, I would say absolutely. Because that's another, you know, behavioral indicator. If if people are taking your video and embedding it on their own website, because it's highly valuable. That took a lot of effort, right? That's not just smashing the thumbs up. That's, oh, I want to copy this embed code. I want to go to my website, I'm gonna write a quick blog post about it. I'm going to throw it up there. That's a lot more effort than hitting than hitting even hitting subscribe or hitting the like button. Got it? So that will definitely have an impact. How much of an impact? I don't know, I would assume quite a bit. Because even the highly popular videos I can't imagine they're getting more than Yeah. You embed Yeah, total. So it's you're working with pretty small numbers there. But it can definitely have an impact for sure. Greg Marshall  21:15  Got it. So I think yeah, I think to recap, that pretty much tells us everything that we probably need to know as far as YouTube search and what to be working on. Blake Beus  21:25  Yeah, right. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I would just say, I would just say keep at it, I want one of my favorite quotes about creators or whatever it is. To make your to make really good videos, you have to make 100 or 1000 really shitty videos, yes, to get there. And just make sure the next one's better. And if you're a person like me, my perfectionism gets in the way of creating content a lot of the time. And because I want each piece to be super great. Yeah. So one of the things I do to kind of shift that is say, Okay, I'm drawing a line in the sand. This is done. Yep. All of the things I wish I did a little bit better on this piece of content. I'm going to carry those over into my next the next one. Yep. Right. But I'm going to draw a line in the sand say this is done. And the same thing happens with, you know, artists, or painters or people like that. Eventually, you have to say this painting is done. Yes. And move on to the next painting and take what you want to learn and move that forward. Greg Marshall  22:19  Yeah. So yes, I think, Blake, do you have anything else as far as YouTube search and what we should be doing? No, no, Blake Beus  22:26  I don't have anything there. But let's just let's just wrap this up and talk about, you know, how can people reach out to you Greg, Greg Marshall  22:33  yeah. So people if you want to reach out I do a free marketing consultation, helping your business, whether that's ads, even more anything to basically grow your business and the market strategy. You can see me at Greg is my website to go and book that call. Blake Beus  22:49  Awesome. Awesome. And then for me, just blink, be calm. I have a few different offers on there. And you know, you can actually reach out and contact me on there, contact me on social media, whatever. But yeah, that's it. Greg Marshall  23:00  All right. Well, I guess until next time, appreciate it, guys. Blake Beus  23:04  Okay, we'll talk to you guys later. All right.  

Wednesday Nov 10, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript Blake Beus  0:06  Okay, we're good. Let's do this. Greg, you're telling me about this great marketing strategy that I heard, basically, how to get sales with zero costs. Greg Marshall  0:19  Yes, Blake Beus  0:20  this really cool. Greg Marshall  0:21  The the deal of prom is, is it's not legal. So basically, that's kind of the segue into the story that we were talking about before we hit the record button, which was I had a client last week. And I've seen this on other accounts to even you know, like bigger, you know, influencers or businesses that this happened to where a hacker gets into their account. And they actually set up an ad campaign. But using your money, and then creating rules on when you turn the ads off, it automatic turns back on. And on top of that, they remove the admins of the business manager, and then use very large budget. So the way they kind of did it, I think, Blake Beus  1:08  how you hurt, like, tell us how you discovered it, like, so. And then yeah, well, how it happens and everything Greg Marshall  1:15  and what to do about it. So basically, the way I discovered it was I really did it, outside of my client asked me who has a pretty good aspect per day. And so it's not like, they're not used to spending money on the platform. And so what she ended up reaching out to me and just say, hey, you know, I've been hit with a couple of charges of $1,500. And we increased, you know, my daily ad budget. And I was like, Well, I know, we haven't increased it to 1500 $3,000 a day. I know that. So I just thought, Oh, well, maybe there's, you know, Facebook did something or maybe it's a carryover from the previous month or so. So I didn't really think anything of it. And then I went to the ad account and I noticed I saw a campaign that the budget was set at $50,000 a day. And it was it wasn't per day it was 50,000 lifetime lifetime. Okay, over just a few days of oh really Yeah. And when I went there and saw that I was like wow, this I've seen these types of hacks on like pages where they you know, they're putting kind of spam posts of like buy this product is weight loss product or whatever. And you see it on a page and you know, their page got hacked, you just got to go ahead and recover I've never seen that actually an ad account business manager no and this way and what they did was they basically replaced they used my clients budget credit card and created this very big campaign but put their business information in as far as like optimizing for purchase their pixel their business page, their own ad everything so basically just went in and said I want to use their money instead of mine. And I'm gonna try to use $50,000 worth of pickup sales. Crazy thing was they were generating sales. Really? Yeah, so they were getting an average purchase about $80 a purchase. Oh, really? Yeah. Blake Beus  3:07  When what was like the order what would be like an order value? Greg Marshall  3:11  You know, I did not click the link because I didn't want to have any issue with it. But it was a it was a chainsaw. A chainsaw. Yeah. And your maybe wasn't just one of those, you know, the saws that cut the wood. You know, like when you're in a garage you basically cut the wood in half Blake Beus  3:28  how okay like a table song? Yes, that table so those those like, low end table saws probably about 150 to $200 that high end one could be like $1,500 Greg Marshall  3:37  I'm not gonna lie. I saw the video like it was probably get brought. So I saw and Blake Beus  3:44  it's like, it's it sounds like that was a legitimate company. Yes, Greg Marshall  3:48  it very much. So look, I mean, they had their pixel they had everything connected to so I was just the pays look legit, everything looked legit. So I was just like, what's crazy was what I've how this is what I discovered how they did it, not from how they access but what their way of essentially deceiving you is they labeled one of the campaigns the exact same name is a current campaign. So you wouldn't notice then what they did was probably to see if you are noticing the charges. They started with a really low budget, real lifetime budget of only a couple pennies, and then a couple dollars, and then you know $20 To see if you catch on to these charges being hit right. And then then I'm sure there's something else too like trying to train the Facebook algorithm to think this is real right so that they can increase their budget right. So then what they do is they created rules on anytime you turn off the ad. It automatic comes back on. And so I kept noticing that every time I would turn it off. It will come back on over and over and over again. And I was just like, oh, man, this. I don't even remember how I figured out that that's the rule. But somehow I clicked on something. And it brought me to the rule section. And then I saw they had all these rules. And I was like, Well, these guys obviously must do this a lot, because they have built this out perfectly interesting to where someone like myself, who's in Facebook ads all the time, still took a while to figure out how they were doing this. And so I just thought, wow, that's, that's crazy, because you would think you think it'd be tighter measures on that? Yeah, it comes to people's accounts. Yeah. Because people have their banking information on there. And you could easily if someone was account that maybe was spending about that amount per day, they could probably easily steal 1000s and 1000s. Without you ever really known. Blake Beus  5:55  Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you think about it, some of the big accounts, like big accounts, I'm thinking like, nationwide brands, like 10,000 100,000 a day. Yeah, 100,000 a day, there are accounts spending $100,000 a day. And so an extra five 610 $1,000 A day could go unnoticed. Yep. For a long time. Yep. And even even so, because a lot of those companies are using external tools to manage their facebook ads account. Yep. And so so anything set directly in the Facebook Ads account may not be pulled over into those external tool report? Yep. Greg Marshall  6:30  as well. Wow. Where are these? These? I'm sure these guys know all the ins and outs of how not to be seen. So I just, I think a good topic to go over today would be obviously, no one is known as is 100%. safer, because you even see big brands kit. Yeah, breach of security. Yep, pretty regularly. And so this is something that is most likely, if it hasn't happened to you yet, will in some instance, happen to you. I've had it happen to me, not from ads manager, but disabled accounts and reports of people trying to get into your pages and your biz. I've had that happen with a bunch of different stuff. And so I've tried my best for security purposes, but by no means do I think or know that I can 100% prevent that. There's very smart people out there that can do whatever they want. If they want me right, and so what are what are some of your suggestions on how to keep things safe? as safe as possible? Blake Beus  7:41  Yeah, yeah. So, um, so yeah, a big portion of my corporate career was in the financial industry, the banking industry. And so we had a lot of training. Plus my final project when I graduated from school, was I show people how to hack some websites. So I love this area. And my degree was actually an information security that specifically that was my emphasis. So so let's talk about a few things. The very, very first thing is humans, people are always the weakest link. Yeah. So no matter how secure are protected as system, if you can trick a human into giving you your they're giving you a password. Yep, that's the easiest way to get into any system ever. Yeah. And so there are some things you can do from like a security standpoint. But there's also you have to understand you, you yourself are the easiest durability target to that. And this has happened to some very smart people can get tricked as well. One of my favorite YouTube channels is a channel called the spiffing Brit. And he actually hacks things if hacks, video games and stuff. He got hacked by a spam email. And he did a whole report on how it was him. And he's like, he's a software guys a security guy. And he got tricked. Yep, recently, and he did this whole his whole YouTube channel with like, 5 million subscribers got deleted. Ooh. And so it can happen, everybody. But let's let's talk about the technical things, then we'll talk about some other things. So So absolutely, very first thing is if you're running ads, what you need to do is you you need to turn on what's called multi factor authentication, or two factor authentication. It's sometimes abbreviated, abbreviated with a to FA. And what that is, if you're not familiar with that you have you have one factor of authentication, which is your username and password, right, but then you have a second authentication which exists outside of that, where they will either text your phone number or a one time code to use or you can use an app on your phone called Google Authenticator, or there's a few others out there. Google Authenticator is the biggest one. And what those apps do is they generate a six digit code that changes every 30 seconds. Yeah, based on you know, an encryption key that put in and very first, that the server knows what that code is every 30 seconds, and your phone knows what that code is every 30 seconds. But no one else knows anywhere. So even if you have all your passwords in a password database, and someone tricks you out of that, and they steal all of your passwords, they still can't log in unless they have access to your phone, or that app on your phone. So that right there will cut down on most hacking attempts, simply because hackers are going to go after the lowest hanging fruit. And if you have that turned on, they're like, Well, I'm worth going after this account. There's a 10,000 other people that don't have this turnout, I'm not even going to worry about trying to attack this account. Yep. Right. And so that right there, just having that turned on for that reason alone will probably protect you because it's simply just not worth their time. Yeah. Right. So that would be the first thing I do. Facebook has this, you can turn on that multi factor authentication, they'll walk you through the process of that, definitely do that. Google, Google will do this for you, you can do this for your Gmail accounts or your email accounts, which is another good thing because another hacking strategy a lot of people have is they'll try to get your email password. And then from your email password, they'll try to submit like a password, reset to Facebook or whatever. And then that will get sent to your email account, which they have access to reset the password. And now you're locked out. And they're in. Yeah, right. So you can turn on the multi factor authentication, or the two factor authentication for that. It sounds super hairy, it's really not. Yeah, it's it's a very easy process. They'll walk you through what to do, they'll even give you some backup codes that you can write down on a piece of paper putting like a safe in case you lose your phone or something, you can use one of those. So those will be the first things. If you've done that, you'll 90% not have to worry about this, if you're just not going to be a big target. The next thing you got to think about is sometimes people will try to trick you into doing this, one of the ways they'll do that is they will send an email that looks like an official email, yeah, Facebook or something saying I've had this app, hey, there's been an issue with your account log in here to resolve it. Yeah, the and this is where it gets tricky. And this is where it's hard, even for a security expert to figure it out. Because if you click on that link, it could take you to a website that looks exactly like Facebook, but the URL might be a little bit different. It might be like Facebook with an extra URL to KS or something like that Facebook, or Facebook, or it could be like Facebook dot, you know, secure, which is not owned by Facebook at all. Yep. And so if you get an email like that, that says, hey, there's something wrong with your account, the best thing to do is to not click on a link to those emails. But actually go to Facebook outside of your email, log in and see if you have any official messages from Facebook inside of there. If you don't, you can just delete that email and disregard it. But you don't want to click on any links in those emails, because they'll try to trick you. And that's how the the the YouTube channel talking about that's how they got hacked. Got it. And so, so it's hard. And the email can even come from an official source. Like this guy on YouTube got hacked, he got an email from a email address. And it's because emails like that can be spoofed. I can, if you know what you're doing, you can send an email that has whatever email address in it you want. So So those are the types of things you want to look at. The other thing you have to look at is look at putting in from like a bank perspective. Yeah, daily limits on your cards. Yep. Right. So that happens completely outside of Facebook or any ad platform form. But you can tell your, your banking platform, this card is just for Facebook ads, and I'm never going to spend more than $3,000 a day on this card. Even though my limit might be way higher business cards can have really high limits, you can just say I'm never going to spend more than x amount on that. And you can call in and get that updated if you need to, or go into a branch get the updated if you're scaling up your ad spend. But you know, something like that will give you at least a safety net. Yep. To to make sure that you're not spending $50,000 You only get you only get screwed over for $3,000 which is a huge difference, right? Greg Marshall  14:16  And it's probably a lot easier to talk to your bank after and say well I put this for a reason. Yeah. And this if you know charging this much then it's obviously someone's just trying to take the money versus me using it for business. Yep. So Blake Beus  14:32  yeah, so I mean, that's kind of a long spiel. But if you do those things and keep an eye on what messages people are sending you, Facebook should never email you saying hey, we need your password. Yeah, no one should ever text you saying hey, can you give me that three digit code that just that you just got texted? Never Never do that? Yep. And they can make it sound official. They can make it feel official, of course. Greg Marshall  14:52  Well, that's what that's what the best do. Yeah. Does that make it seem official? And they probably practice on So many accounts, they've got it down to a science. Yeah. And so just trying to have the, I guess, the best security measures that you possibly can, with the understanding that, you know, if this happens, it's very possible. And it can happen to anyone. I've had accounts where I'm managing pages of, you know, several million followers, and their page gets completely taken away and hacked, and they're posting crazy stuff on their pay. And it's just, and you can get everything back, I guess, most of the time, nine times out of 10, at least, my experience, you can get everything back, you're just gonna have to, you know, go through the process of sending your actual, you know, driver's license, like all of your information. But yeah, this is probably a new prime. You know, we talked about this last week, you know, this, this is just with, you know, the world's changing, it changes fast. And there's just always a, you know, there's hackers out there always a step ahead. Right. And so, yeah, it's just, you just got to try your best, but I think having those security measures, and probably the number one thing, I would say, this goes back to, don't rely on one piece of traffic source of traffic, right, this client is using for total, so she pretty much never really panicked. Yeah, she just was like, Ah, man, you know, so she went and picked Facebook, while we're still running ads on the other platform, which is totally fine. But the other thing really is the end of the day. I think the biggest fear would just be, you know, people hack your stuff. You don't want to take all your money. Yeah. Right. I mean, because that's your livelihood. So maybe working with your banks to make sure that those are in order to make sure that if something like this does happen, which I feel like it's gonna happen to everyone, it's happened to me, I don't know how many times you're able to, like recover from and you're not putting yourself in like, huge danger. Yeah. And like I said, You just try the best you can, because even some of the biggest brands in the world have had data breaches. And we're talking about billion dollar industries. You just, you just got to keep keep your head on a swivel. That's all you can do. Blake Beus  17:15  Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I don't know if you've tried this, but Facebook should refund the money that was stolen. And I don't know, it's probably a hard process. But that's looking into, because it's clear that that was that was a hack. Greg Marshall  17:32  Right? Yeah. Which, which is one of the reasons why initially when I went in, I took pictures, but I didn't want to delete the campaign. Yeah, because I knew that the hacker would probably at least eventually delete me off, which they did, and try to delete that account, which they did as well. But at least we have all the information to show. Yeah, I even took a video of everything that happened. Yeah, I still had access. Yeah. So we have all this documentation. So yeah, at least say, you know, Give us our money back. I mean, that hackers probably gonna get away clean, but at least give us our money back. Blake Beus  18:08  Yeah, yeah. I mean, Facebook's a multi multi billion dollar business. And they, they know that fraud happens on their platform, and I'm sure they have, I don't know, might, they might have enough profits to be able to refund. Maybe, I don't know, things are probably pretty tight. For Zuckerberg. Greg Marshall  18:25  They are a lean startup. Blake Beus  18:29  Probably shopping at Costco these days to save money dollar store, because things are really tight for him. Right? Well, Greg Marshall  18:35  I think, you know, and with, also with thinking about security, you know, follow same measures for your pages, things like that. But I think the best thing to do, at least in my experience, because I've run into this, you know, this happens, at least for me four or five times a year, really where someone is trying to hack my page or, or do something. And well, the first time it happened, I remember like, oh, man, this is this is not good. And almost feeling panic, but you never make good decisions when you're panicked. Yeah. So the first step, I think, is to just like, take a deep breath, and just go yes, it feels like you've been alienated or taken advantage of, but you most likely if you think clearly can work your way out of it in some capacity. And it's not like 100% the end of the world. And if you're forced to have to use other strategies of platforms and you know, maybe it's a blessing, right, so but yeah, these these things kind of happen, especially, you know, in the internet world, and it's just, it's probably going to continue to that's probably gonna be the next big industry is people that are able to have lockdown security solutions, where it's very, very difficult to get in. But yeah, I mean, my already exists. Blake Beus  20:00  that stuff already exists. But the trade off is it's much more difficult for you to get in. Right. And so there's always this balance between security and convenience. Because if it takes you, you know, 30 minutes, 30 minutes to get into an account to make a couple of tweaks, yeah, most people aren't going to do that. Right. Most people are going to take that time. And so there's always this the balance. So I think I mean, really simple things like using a password database like LastPass, or one password or something. Those are legitimate secure solutions for storing your all your logins, creating logins that that are randomized characters, so they're not the same password for every everything, using multi factor or two factor authentication. And then making sure not to click on links, asking for passwords and stuff like that. You'll be in a pretty good spot, Greg Marshall  20:48  you know, I got a question for it. Security. Why? Because this is actually one way that gave me prompts. When you use different wi Fi's Are you more susceptible to getting your information taken, even if you have security measures, for example, I had my accounts, this is almost 10 years ago, but I have my accounts, you know, assuming they were like somewhat decently tight, and I traveled to Australia, and I went on their Wi Fi, and I just remember getting like, all these random notifications and stuff like that. And that's actually one of the times where the account got, you know, hacked or whatever. And so, does that have more to do with just Wi Fi? People hacking your Wi Fi? Or does that have to do with location? Or what is that? Mostly? Like? How do you because this client travels a lot? Yeah. Okay. So they're going from, you know, the south to the north to the East Coast. And so for clients who travel a lot, what do you do there? What are the best? Yeah, Blake Beus  21:59  I'm actually glad you brought that up. Because that does give, you know, there are some things you can do. So the short answer is, yes, technically, other wi Fi's could be less secure, and could lead to something. It's not as likely as it was maybe five or 10 years ago, because of how secure websites now it's much more prominent that HTTPS means it's encrypted between your your computer, and you know, the outside network. But there are some ways around that and not not to get too technical. But one of them is called the man in the middle where someone could have something also on the network that acts like a legitimate device, then sniffs all of your traffic. It used to be back in the day with open Wi Fi networks and stuff. You could people could sniff what you were typing and stuff like that. And that still technically can happen. I'm sure there's networks that are set up like that. So what do you do, one of the best things you can do is sign up for a VPN service. There's tons of them out there. There's Nord VPN, there's, I actually have a service called Tor guard that I use quite regularly for different things. And what a VPN service does is it encrypts all traffic on your computer, not just each webpage, but literally every network traffic, and tunnels it through securely, through whatever network you're on to a server somewhere else. And most of these VPN services, you can choose where you want your endpoint to be, you can choose to make it look like you're from Germany or Canada, you know, Utah, or whatever. But that will if you're ever on an open network that will encrypt everything, so no one can see what you're doing. And these services are super cheap. I mean, the one I pay for Tor guard is I think it's like 30 bucks a year. Yeah, yeah, or something like that. It's super cheap, and they're totally worth it. And as a side bonus, you can log in as if you're in Europe, and you can see what Netflix looks like. Because I have different licensing deals, you can stream stream from live, Greg Marshall  24:03  that makes sense, because my brother, he's, he's in cybersecurity. And I remember a long time ago, I thought, Are people really gonna waste that much time wanting to like hack your stuff or whatever, but it wasn't. So I got heavy into, you know, having access to clients, where you have to really think this through, like, you have to trust me as safe as you can. Because, you know, these are people that you're servicing. And so, my brother, I remember when he first told me about a VPN, I just thought, like, oh, man, maybe that's only accessible for like, you know, legit military kind of normal person. And what why would a normal person have that, but it wasn't until my eyes started to get open. I think that trip to Australia helped me really think about it because I was like, wow, that's interesting. Like, all of a sudden I got here and everything is like it's just all over the place. I'm trying to live against my client stuff. It's now it's locking me out and redirect me here. And I was in a hotel. Yeah. And so it just made me think through like, what other measures can you take in order to get as safe as you can? So there's nothing 100% But at least where it's like something where you're not, you know, concerned, all man, this class page is now compromised. I got to get it back. Yes, like I said, you nine times out of 10 you can get it figured out. But it really is like a huge time suck because it'll take like a whole day. Sometimes it takes a week, two weeks. Yeah. And we've had we run into this with memory, your ad account, where we got like, shut down for who knows what reason. Do you remember that? And we were like, we were running. And they were very profitable campaigns. Yeah, all of a sudden, we had to go through Fado. You know. Blake Beus  25:53  And it was it was it was brutal. We were spending about two grand a day on my videos. And it was it was it was crushing. It was doing four to 5k a day in sales. And then the ad account kept getting banned. And for just crazy reasons. And we had to work through through with Facebook and all these Greg Marshall  26:09  time sucks. It just takes you you know, you're learning and money. Yeah, it was Blake Beus  26:12  because we were profitable one day, and then the next day would get shut down. So then we'd have to spin it back up, and we lose money for the first two or three days or bills back, or builds. Yeah, backup the data and Greg Marshall  26:24  all these things. You know, like I said, there's there's no real reason to like, panic, but you can solve it. So that's that would be my advice, but it's just it is a big time. So it's a huge inconvenience. Especially if you're a very busy person, you got a lot of stuff going on. You know, you don't want to spend eight hours 10 hours a week Blake Beus  26:44  dealing with this? Well, yeah, I mean, it's just, it's like anything, you know, five minutes of preventative saves you 100 hours of fixing problems later. Absolutely. And so when it comes to like VPN, you want to just have this concept of trusted networks and untrusted networks, if you're at your house. Yeah. And you know that that's your router right over there. And the internet service provider is, is wired directly in your house, like you can send us a trusted network. And I don't need to use a VPN. I still use it from time to time because I do some stuff with location based data tracking. So I need to check to see how a website will look sure if I'm in a specific location. But you don't necessarily need a VPN at that point. Because you know, things are set up. Yeah, an untrusted network would be something like a hotel like a star. I don't know what Yes, Starbucks McDonald's. Air for the airport. I don't know. I don't know what's going on there. I don't know what measures they've taken. I don't know probably very mad. Oh, no. In the thing is, is people can set up their own wireless access points that look like yeah, the Starbucks Starbucks, right? Like, that's one of the ways if I wanted to go, yeah, hack someone's account, I would bring in a little wireless access point, I'd make it look like Starbucks. Yep. And then they would connect to mine. And I could look at all the traffic they have. But if I'm on a VPN, if I'm on a VPN, once I connect to that VPN, even if you're connected to my device can't couldn't see any of that true. Well, and I and I'm sure, I guess, to Greg Marshall  28:16  kind of wrap this up, as far as security is concerned. Just make sure, like Blake, recommend five minutes of preventative work, which saves you hundreds of hours, and at least minimize your chances of getting hacked. Or having any, like massive dam fall place. And so this reminds me a lot of insurance. And when you think of insurance, it's not the most exciting topic of like, Man, I sure can't wait to pay my health insurance. And my car insurance, right? Because most of the time, you're not going to be dealing with this. But you sure do love it. When you do have this thing happen. Yep. And it's in place. You're like, thank goodness, I did that. And so these are things that aren't as exciting as the new you know, Facebook marketing trick or the new tick tock ad, but it's something that you absolutely must take, you know, take into consideration and make it a priority because this stuff does actually impact your business. Yeah, Blake Beus  29:23  well, I think I mean, we talk about this a lot of the time it's the the boring details tend to be the things that actually push a business civil right. And I know we have gurus out there we kind of hammer on gurus even though we're kind of loving gurus our podcasts are so yeah, we are but the reality is a lot of them because marketing marketing one solution that fixes all your problems is much easier than saying, well it's actually pretty complicated. That's why a lot of the marketing messages we get out there on on biz, from business consultants and everything is like is like here's the super simple trick that will help you out And it's because it works because it's it's easy to explain that concept than the complexities. But that's why we do this podcast, we can dive in deeper on the complexity for the people that are interested in that. But yeah, pay attention those boring details. Yeah. And if you if you guys have, you know, you can you can contact both Greg or me if you have any questions surrounding just something like this, Greg Marshall  30:21  especially security, I recommend you reach out to Blake, just because he understands his house a lot better than I do. And this is your your field, basically, Blake Beus  30:31  basically. Yeah. And if you guys want us to cover more security related marketing topics, we can definitely do that. Just Just let us know. But Greg, what's the best way to get in touch with you? Greg Marshall  30:41  Greg You can book a free strategy session with me. Okay, and what about E? Blake Blake Beus  30:47  You can kind of get to the several different things I do on that site and contact me there. Greg Marshall  30:54  Great. Well see you guys next week. And hopefully you enjoyed this this pocket. Alright, we'll talk to you guys later. Bye bye.  

Wednesday Nov 03, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes Greg Marshall  0:00  All right, we are recording. All right. Well, Blake, what's your thoughts on it? Let's get right into it. So Facebook has changed, you know its name. Well, not the properties that owns I guess, but just the parent company comm meta, meta, meta? Yeah. Meta. What do you what are your thoughts? Was this mean? Oh, I don't know. I mean, they've been they've they've been beat up a lot in the press lately over a ton of things.  Blake Beus  0:27  Maybe that sparked why they decided to make that change right now. A lot of people are talking about this concept called the metaverse if you've ever watched Ready Player One, or read the book Ready Player, one of you know, okay, okay. It's all centered around this online universe called the oasis. And, and it's very, it's like a dystopian future. Most people don't like living in the real world. So we hop into the this virtual reality and spending also time in there. And the whole economies and everything happening virtually, contest jobs, like people can log into their job and work all day in VR at an office of VR office and everything. And Metaverse is the kind of generic term for something like that. Yeah. A lot of people are speculating, I mean, not just name speculation, they literally said that this is what they wanted to do. But they wanted to take this whole concept and encapsulate it and make it a thing because I feel like in 1020 30 years, that's going to be the new way we operate kind of kind of a bigger reality. So they already own the Oculus VR headsets. So I don't know, we'll we'll just see. I mean, it's nothing's gonna change right now, we might see change to a different domain name sometime in the future. But I mean, it's worth talking about, but it's all kind of up in the air right now. And I don't know how, how it's all gonna play out. Greg Marshall  1:56  Yeah, I guess my question would be, you know, I think sometimes we all forget, these are all businesses. So to make a business decision, that's what how do you think this benefits Facebook business wise? Blake Beus  2:12  Well, it's all about I mean, to use the the words, engagement or whatever, but it's taking engagement tank kind of to the next level. So imagine if, if a large percentage of the population their entire work day happened inside of this virtual reality. You could sell virtual billboard, you could sell virtual all sorts of virtual things, they could have their own virtual currency. And that currency could rival a currency of like a government. I mean, Facebook has one and a quarter billion people logging into it every month. Yeah. I think if they launched their own cryptocurrency, which they said they're going to do, yeah. Right. They they could have a currency that is, I don't know, more stable, more universal than the US dollar, potentially, eventually. Because you know, how many of you live in the United States? 330 million, something like that. Facebook has a larger audience than that. Yeah. So I don't know if they can get people to be fully immersive in their platform in their system. The sky's the limit for ways they can monetize and all of that. Greg Marshall  3:21  So basically, what it sounds like, it's, it's allowing them because I have noticed now obviously, this is a Marketing podcast. And so we talk a lot about, you know, marketing strategies. And I've noticed more placements in the Facebook ad account where you can place ads. Oh, really? Yes. recently. And I don't know if it's on every account. Maybe it's just on some because, you know, as you go, I noticed on different client accounts. They have a seems like different, I guess features. Yeah, right. Yeah. And one that I just saw, actually, this morning was the reels, not only the real placement, but then a real overlay placement, which is slightly different, I think, because it's so new. I don't know. So I'm making a speculation. I would guess it's similar to like, you know, the banner ads that are on YouTube. Okay, YouTube videos on the bottom. I think that's what that is. Interesting. I'm not 100% Sure. But I do know that there's a lot more ad placement. So Blake Beus  4:20  you're talking to the little banner that sits on top of the video kind of in the bottom center? Yes. I think that's what you're saying. There's like a lot of screen real estate on reels already. Greg Marshall  4:32  So that's why I said I don't I could be wrong. But my initial thought is because in the ads platform that actually says like reels and inferences as overlays. And so my only thought would be well, what's an overlay to me, would be some type of writing across the real. I led my reading. I Blake Beus  4:54  think that makes sense. So it'll have to be something we test out for sure. That It's interesting, I didn't know they were rolling out specific placements for that, Greg Marshall  5:05  and it seems like it just feels like there's more and more placements, you know, like they added the Facebook search, right? That was a placement that was new, it just seems like that placement list is growing. And so that's my thought is they're probably, you know, with, with meta, they're looking to expand, because there's so many people advertising in the Facebook newsfeed. And they probably want to have more control on data that they own. Yeah, so that they can't be blocked again, July things like iOS, or Blake Beus  5:37  Well, yeah, and that's the thing, that's what a lot of people don't realize is like inside the Facebook app, Facebook still knows all the things you're doing. And so the more they can, can control your entire online experience or controls probably the wrong word, the more they can own and have your entire online experience happen inside their platform. They were all of any any of their platforms, the more they're going to know about, you know you what you're doing, because that's all first party data, meaning data they're collecting directly from you heard their terms and conditions, because they're choosing to use their properties in their apps and everything like that. But it's like, you know, I, I think of advertising and real estate as the same quite a bit. You know, how do you how do you sell more homes? Will you open up some more real estate for sale? Right? And this the same thing with ads? How do you sell more ads, if it's a pretty congested marketplace, and costs are going up and people are ditching because costs are too high? You You You launch some more real estate, you give them more places to to put the ads and now you have more real estate to sell. And the thing with virtual digital real estate is the more digital real estate to sell, the more you can sell, right? Well, and Greg Marshall  6:51  if you're the first in the market, you can eat up, you know, which is the strategy that all these giant businesses use. If you're first to market. Yeah, you can eat up most of the real estate, therefore allowing you to be in control of the virtual real estate. Blake Beus  7:07  Yep. And if you if you can eat up so much, it's hard for anybody else to come in and make a dent every now and again. You'll see something make a dent but then company like Facebook, their plays usually just buy that company out. That's why they own Instagram. Yeah. Right. Instagram was knocking their socks off. I don't know, seven, eight years ago. It's been a while since they've and so they and they thought they couldn't compete. So they just bought Instagram. Greg Marshall  7:32  It's tick tock tick tock, right. Yeah, let's set a scene reels everywhere on Facebook. Blake Beus  7:35  You're seeing reels all over the place. And I think I think Facebook would be more than happy to buy Tik Tok right now, I think but I think the price tags is is too high. Or you know, I mean, it's owned by Chinese companies. So I don't know it. And Greg Marshall  7:51  here's my question. I'm happy brought that up, because my next question was actually going to be so did it tick tock did they sell? I remember hearing like Microsoft and Walmart bought either parts of Tic Toc, or maybe most of it or all of it? Did you do remember that there was a part where something was sold? Yeah, from tic toc. And I just remember Walmart and because it stood out to me like, wow, that's interesting. I wouldn't expect a Walmart or Microsoft to be involved with the TIC tock but I didn't wrong, but I just want to hurt someone. Blake Beus  8:27  I do remember hearing something like that. And I don't know the specifics. I mean, I could we could look it up and clarify in our next episode or whatever. Greg Marshall  8:34  But the I say that because how, how do you think that would impact the difference on if it's Chinese ownership versus American ownership? Blake Beus  8:44  Okay, so now we're gonna start, we're gonna, we're gonna dive into like data privacy and everything like that. So so the the concern, the concern is, and I get concerned, would that be dangerous, I get this concern, I get this concern. So so let's say I'm a government and I want to do some mass surveillance on my on a country that we have some okay ties with, but not the greatest ties with, if I could have a social media platform that everybody hopping on, I can collect any data on anybody I want to whatsoever. And early versions of Tik Tok sent a lot of data directly to servers that were hosted in China. And so security researchers brought that up, and that's one of the reasons what was it 2019, maybe 2020. Trump said he was going to ban tic toc from the United States. That was that was part of the reason why that whole conversation started happening. So one of the things that was discussed and I don't know how this fell out was that well, if if the parts of tic toc that operated in the United States could be owned by a US company, then President Trump said he would allow them to continue to operate and I don't know how all that fell out. There was there was some like there was a hole probably legal battle and everything going on with something there. And I don't know how that all fell out. But the reality is, is that a lot of these companies have lots of different investors. So when you say, well, Walmart bottom out, they may have invested in it, they but we don't know if they have a controlling, you know, stake and stake in it or whatever. That's what I was curious. Yeah. And so and I know, I know, Oracle, they're a big database company. They were looking they were there were one of the names that popped up Walmart, some of these others. I don't know how all that felt. I don't know what's going on. But it is a conversation worth having from a, you know, governmental standpoint about who privacy privacy of people and who owns that data. And these are all conversations that are that are going to be going on for the next 10 or 20 years as laws try to catch up with how fast technology has has outpaced Greg Marshall  10:52  Yeah, I definitely would say there's probably going to be a need for adjustment. Blake Beus  10:59  Absolutely. Greg Marshall  11:01  You know, before a lot of our loss feels like they were built previous knowledge, right, and they worked for that world. But now this is the new world when it comes to technology and what's being offered. And so I knows I would not want to be a lawmaker. This stuff is moving so quickly Blake Beus  11:21  that I mean, and not to get too political. Yeah, but more people should pay attention to how people vote surrounding technology and vote for candidates that put in or have a good understanding of technology, and how you want that to proceed. Because most politicians have no clue. When it comes to technology, and a lot there's been a lot of conversation about cryptocurrencies, lately with politics, and I don't want to go down this path. Yeah. But the reality is, is nearly everything politicians are saying about cryptocurrencies is is incorrect. It's inaccurate. Yeah. And what they're claiming is happening a lot claiming is going on. It's, it's incorrect. And, I mean, I'll tell you why. I'm been a software engineer for a long, long, long time, and I have never felt as dumb as I feel when I try to understand the technology behind cryptocurrencies and blockchain. It's insanely complicated. So if you have someone coming to you that's been like researching, you know, Blockchain technologies and things for a few weeks, or even a few months. And they're like, Hey, guys, I got a great handle on this, I promise you, they do not, it's insanely complicated. And there's a lot of implications there and a lot of moving pieces. And it's, it's not reasonable to expect our politicians per se, to understand the complexities of that. So most politicians should probably be saying something like, you know, this is really complicated, we should maybe put together a panel of experts to help guide us on lawmaking. Because this stuff is complicated. And you'd have to dedicate five years or so to your life to fully understand it. And that's not reasonable to expect our politicians to be experts in that kind of a way. Greg Marshall  13:13  Well, and you can see, you know, the kind of the road, we're gone down right here is the importance of data, and understanding how things are moving and changing. And so I think, you know, when it comes to your marketing, and how to guess, project in the future, one of the things that I think is important is to go, if you think almost like an investor, right? You have your own, you have your small business inside of the metaverse, right? And these big, you know, new atmospheres that we're operating under, you almost have to think like an investment thing. Have some foresight on what do you think is going to be the next places to essentially invest? And one of those things that at least a Mayan, I like to hear your and something that I would think that you'd really want to start investing in now would be different types of content that you can use? And how you would structure that content? And what's the new asset within these structures? When it comes to growing your business? Right. In the past, before technology, it was you can buy lists from companies that were getting this day, I mean, nothing's really changed, right? It's just the delivery of it, because I used to be able to get data from people who were buying magazines or whatever, from other companies, but it was just no one knew that you could do that. And it was kind of more hand to hand right? Like, right, these are the most recent magazine buyers, whatever. And so then the assets were Can you buy these lists? Can you get these names, these phone numbers, these emails, their buying history, and everything was kind of more name, phone number email, but moving forward, it might turn into Something different, right? It might be people watching stuff or people hanging out in some of these virtual arenas, right. And so I would think, in my opinion, investing for the future is to really understand what types of content and how people will consume the content moving forward, because then that's where you can start to invest your time and energy and money. Yeah. Blake Beus  15:25  Yeah. And I think, I think it's a super valid point. And we might get some people listening to this and saying, Oh, great, now there's more things they're gonna keep an eye on. But I asked someone who loves technology, and unlike involved in all sorts of areas of technology, at the end of the day, we're communicating with people and working on the behavioral side of sales, your angle, your messaging, how to provide that value, how to monetize that value, how to create content, that means means something to someone, and, and, but just maybe keep an eye on some of these new areas. But the reality is, is, you know, a written word is going to be around for a long, long, long, like it's never going away. Video is going to be around for a long, long, long time. So whether that's video delivered inside some sort of Zuckerberg Metaverse, or video delivered in some other way, it's going to be video. Yep. Right? Photos are going to be around the imagery or audio. Right. That's right, in so it's, in fact, Greg Marshall  16:33  let me let me cut you off really quick to ask you a question about this. Because you said podcasts. So I've noticed Facebook has increased. I'm seeing some of these other marketers uploading their podcast, a Facebook. Yeah. Have you had any experience with that? And, and or what are your thoughts on that? Generally? Blake Beus  16:53  I mean, the reality is, is the more places you can get your content, the better. It's such an easy thing to do to upload your entire podcast, especially a lot of you know, a lot of people have a, you know, virtual system or whatever. So they just send over the podcast and say, okay, upload it to all these places, that whatever, right, and it's just part of their normal content creation process. And throwing it on Facebook is great. I mean, Facebook might eventually launched a podcast version, you know, like an audio only version of something, I wouldn't be one bit surprised. The reality is those most people aren't going to Facebook to listen to a full podcast. So you might get a little bit of reach out of it. But there's no harm in throwing it up there. We have this podcast listed in you know, Spotify and Stitcher and Apple podcasts and Google podcasts. Because when people open up those apps that's there, they're there to listen to a podcast. And, and so it's just kind of how they consume it. But that, you know, there's no harm in throwing that up on YouTube on Facebook. Yep. IG TV will let you upload something up to 60 minutes. Yeah. You could cut it up and upload some snippets onto Tik Tok or whatever. You can do all those things. Greg Marshall  18:10  So really the the, and I will admit, I actually did consume my first and full long form podcast on Facebook. Really? Last was it last week, their nose two weeks ago? Mostly because I wanted to see how it operated. But also I thought the podcast was good. It was one of the I always say his name wrong. But I could see his face. But the Facebook guy Jon Loomer, Loomer. Yes. So it was it was his and his podcast is I think it was something named like, you know, beer and something. So his angle was he would have the podcast while having a beer with you. Right. And I thought it was kind of a cool idea. But yeah, I can see my first long form pieces. I hope I'm not the only you know, I actually had a good experience like it was pretty smooth. And I didn't have to like there. Were very little Kingson, how to consume it. Blake Beus  19:10  So was it a video? No, Greg Marshall  19:11  it was an audio only straight up audio just like if you were on the Apple podcast app or interested or anything else, I just click play. It looks exactly the same. It was playing even when I think I even when I got off of Facebook for a second. So I got a text message. It was still playing. And so that's like a feature that I think is kind of important because I've noticed, like YouTube is doing the same and some of these other app platforms where they're still keeping the screen. Even if it's not video, they're still keeping the audio screen available. So it could keep playing while Yeah, doing other stuff. So I don't know but I enjoyed it and I thought the experience is pretty good. Blake Beus  19:53  Interesting. Yeah, that's definitely something to keep an eye on then because I mean, the more places you can kind of have it. I typically don't listen to anything too long on Facebook mostly because, you know, I listen to podcasts and things while I'm doing something else. That's like, that's why I love podcasts so much. And and when I open it up in a browser window on my computer or something like that I don't usually listen to I don't open Facebook a whole lot on my phone. Got it. But if I close that tab, or whatever, yeah, it quits. And I can't go back to where it was. And so I just get frustrated. Yeah, stop. But no, that's super interesting. And like, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if we have a dedicated podcast section in the Facebook app, or the metaverse app or whatever. Why other what that's Greg Marshall  20:41  telling me those a lot of the Platt, a lot of what Facebook seems to invest in, are exactly the things that they they don't want their competitors getting a full head of steam like a tick tock. And as you know, podcasts are getting bigger and bigger feels like by the day. Yeah, it's it's something that a lot of people consume now. Whereas maybe, I don't know, seven, eight years ago, there wasn't as much consumption of podcasts outside of like maybe Joe Rogan or something. And I think like, you know, that gives you an idea of, I think, where things are moving, it's almost like you can look at Facebook, to see what the biggest trends are, when you start to see them investing more, and certain delivery platforms, and podcasting, and the reels, in my opinion, seems like that's the new way all of us consumers are consuming content. Yeah. So therefore, Facebook is investing heavily in that because there's other players that are providing Blake Beus  21:42  Yeah, yeah, I mean, I've to take to take a step back and just look at all of this. I've heard a lot of marketers, and even people in various different media spaces talk about, you know, attention. Yeah. And if you think about it, everybody has Greg Marshall  22:00  branded that. Yeah. Blake Beus  22:03  Yeah, that goes everywhere. We all have 24 hours in a day, right? And when we're watching TV, yeah, we're oftentimes on our phone as well. And that's about as much multitasking as we can do. But people like to try to do more than something more than one thing at a time. And podcasts audio only or audio books. Like that is the single easiest way to multitask. I don't I don't know about you, but I am always listening to something that's not music when I'm driving in my car. It's a podcast. It's an audiobook. It's something because I, I while I love music. Yeah. I like to, like have mental stimulation or whatever, while I'm driving. So Facebook is probably thinking, Okay, well, here's another way, if we can have a big chunk of podcasting, we can inject our own ads, we can start, we can start hosting audio ads, Greg Marshall  23:01  which, you know, just like all these other plans, Spotify has got the ads. You know, YouTube's got everyone's got the ads. I mean, everything is about ads, right. At the end of the day, it's about because we want whoever's gonna buy our stuff to see and hear us. Yeah. And so the way all these companies make money, is they have access to a way of knowing these people are watching this and seeing this or consuming that clicking this engaging on them. So I think yeah, I think the biggest thing that that I'm seeing right now is really have the foresight for investing in the future, which is understanding when I say investment, future, meaning even taking the time to understand how these other platforms are doing things, and most importantly, how people are actually using it. Yeah, because that's how you can come up with your ideas on really, at the end of day marketing is all about just getting in front of the person that may want your product or service. Yep. Right in its simplest form is you can't sell anything that you can't get the product in front of them. And so that's what these these platforms allow you to do is to get this is the new way how we are. Yes, stuff we used to read newspaper now it's on our phones. Blake Beus  24:17  Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you can see how things kind of transform. The oldest new Punk has been around for a long time, but Facebook's seems to start be starting to get into getting into those. And it's like, I mean, so they've kind of reinvented this thing to go out there. Yeah, newspapers, you know, they were the thing for the longest time. And now we get our news from our phone. And now we can actually sign up for lists that will send us aggregated news related to what we're interested in. So we don't have to try to filter through all the news ourselves, right, but it's still basically a newspaper. Greg Marshall  24:56  I use Twitter. Yeah. What's interesting is I tweet very seldomly. But I use Twitter a lot. Actually, I, but I go and consume news that I want to see. Yeah. And usually I feel like Twitter is the best platform to know what's going on right now. Like if something's going on, like, for example, if Facebook goes down, you go on Twitter, Facebook, not work, and you go on Twitter and beauty is already gone. So it seems like Twitter never goes down. You know, but it's probably because it's simpler. ISIS only words. So that would be my thought. I don't know if that's easier to manage. I don't know. But Twitter is my main source. Like if sporting events going on. If you know, big news is happening. I go on Twitter to see like the latest update. Let's go and see what's going on. You know, I don't know. That's how I like to consume my news base. Yeah. Blake Beus  25:52  Yeah, I get I get my from Reddit from Reddit. Greg Marshall  25:55  I've used Reddit, here and there. But I've got a lot of friends that yeah, like Reddit what? So why do you like Reddit? Better is Reddit better than Twitter. For information. Blake Beus  26:08  It's a personal it's, it's just a personal difference on how I consume news. So with with Twitter, you follow specific accounts. With Reddit, you follow subreddits, which can have hundreds or millions of members in there. It's like a sub community got it. And then people can upvote and downvote. And then you can look at what's hot today. And those are the things that are most uploaded. What I like about it is I tend to get exposed to two news stories and things that I wouldn't normally see if I were following a specific person. Right? So things tend to bubble up to the top a little slower than they do in Twitter. But you tend to get a more diverse set of things bubbling up to the top. I mean, literally could be the number one thing on Reddit today could be. This was yesterday, actually. And I sent it to my wife because we send each other stuff all the time. But yeah, the number one thing on Reddit yesterday, for a good portion of the day was was this. Puppy and duck got that we're like buddies. Yeah, that was number one thing. But the day before, it was a new story about, you know, some some sort of global policy or something, right? And so, so you get exposed to a wider variety of what you Greg Marshall  27:26  say it's a little bit less algorithm based, which is why you like it. Blake Beus  27:33  It's less algorithm based, maybe, Greg Marshall  27:36  like, it doesn't keep you in that what do they call it the echo chamber? Blake Beus  27:38  It's definitely less echo chamber, but it does lean a little bit more like from a political standpoint, it does lean a little bit more like center or a little bit left of center from like an American politics standpoint. But you'll see, you'll see stuff on both sides. Right. So there's less echo chamber, but voting manipulation totally happens. I mean, there's Russian farms that that have 10s of 1000s of bots that, so that totally happens. And that happens with that. So Greg Marshall  28:07  is, you know, I've always had the when I look at each social media platform, I think of them differently, right. And so I've always viewed Twitter is also an angry place. Is that the same? Where's more angry? Because I've heard Reddit can get pretty can get pretty brutal as well. Yeah. So what would you rate more anger? Reddit or Twitter? Blake Beus  28:35  I think it depends on which, which parts of each platform you get on. Yeah, the thing with Reddit is it's pseudo anonymous. So you don't normally know who's saying, got it. Right, because it's just usernames, and some people Greg Marshall  28:48  are more honest, they're Blake Beus  28:51  more honest, or more critical, or whatever. So there is some garbage on there. I mean, there's a lot of people on there. I think on Twitter, while there's a lot of trash, people tend to maybe pull their punches a little bit because it's almost always associated with their name or whatever. So it kind of it kind of depends. I mean, there's whole subreddits dedicated to like wholesomeness God, and there's nothing but like positive things on. Greg Marshall  29:15  Well, I can tell you this, I don't think there's something like that on Twitter. I see on Twitter. I follow mostly sports stuff. And, you know, you can see some pretty nasty stuff being said, Yeah, but I think, you know, when it comes to marketing, right, the new wave is these are the new channels just like they were on TV. They're new, you know, every platform attracts a different type of person, mentally meaning, where they're just how they're using a platform, right, like there to consume or contribute with some kind of content. So that's where I think all the marketing goes is understanding how can you plug your business in these forms? forums where it makes sense, right? Because if you do it wrong, trust me, he will pay you that your ad accounts get banned, or people bash you so bad that you're never going to want to go back on. And so you have to kind of learn and study. It's it's probably in your best interest to learn, study and invest in knowing who who's on these channels. And what are the best practice? Yeah, Blake Beus  30:22  right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, one thing I'll tell you right now, I mean, Reddit has its own advertising platform and everything like that. It's, I've never had a ton of success with it, read it. Read it as is, is a very different beast, because the community is very different. But if you want to reach people that hate Facebook, go on Reddit go right. Nearly everybody on Reddit hates Facebook. So if you're like, Man, my audience just isn't on Facebook. Yeah. Try out Reddit. Probably hanging out on Reddit, on I Greg Marshall  30:49  heard, you know, I've heard quite quite a bit about Reddit doesn't like not Reddit, the company, but the users do not like ads at all? Correct. I've heard that if you even put an ad on there, you just get absolutely demolished. I've never done it. I've just heard that that's how the, I guess the ad culture is on. on that platform? Blake Beus  31:13  I would definitely say there's a significant portion of people on Reddit that are more privacy focused. And online ads platforms are one of the biggest offenders to privacy in their eyes, the opposite. And and, and so and so yeah. But look, if you want to do some organic marketing, and get involved in a community, which we've talked about, like dark funnels, shark, social or whatever, this is one of those places, if you have some sort of a niche product or service or something like that, hop into these communities. And, you know, you can create, you can create a profile named your business, that's fine. Most people don't care or B, or just set your profile as like the founder or owner or VP at a specific business. And hop in there and genuinely be helpful. Yeah. Without being salesy. Yep. And you can get a ton of exposure. I mean, there's this concept called the, the Reddit hug of death. Okay. And and what it is, is essentially, if, if a story bubbles up to the top and hits the actual front page of the entire Reddit, yep, that site is going to get 10s of millions of views that day. Wow. And so there's a lot of times if it's like a smaller site, or a smaller company, they hit the front page of reddit, and everybody's going to look at it and the site goes down, because it's not set up to scale. Maybe they don't have a good infrastructure or whatever. And so in the comments, it'll be like, Oh, shit, guys, we have the site. Yeah. Greg Marshall  32:40  Well, that's I've never heard that. That's, that's kind of cool. Blake Beus  32:46  Yeah. Yeah. And so it's, it's a, it's an interesting way to do it. And there's, there's lots of different ways to do it. One, one person I saw that has done an excellent job of marketing on Reddit in Reddit has like this weird, ironic kind of witty humor thing. So if you can leverage that, you'll do really well. One guy, he's big on tick tock now, but he got big on Reddit first, and I can't remember his name, but he makes products that are useless. Okay. And then and then you can buy those as like gag gifts for your friends got it. So So what one of those Oh, shoot, I'm gonna botch it now. Anyway, they're products that are hilarious, but you just, they aren't useful at all. And then he has this store where you can buy them. But I'll have to put a link to that there. But they're, they're just these hilarious products. But he makes he makes these really funny videos about about them on. Oh, one was, here's one I actually just remember. Yeah. Okay, so he created this this product that you could put two rolls of toilet paper on. Okay, as you know, how there's this debate about whether toilet paper should be put on with the less coming out front versus the back. So he made this product where you could flip it, so that whatever your preference was, you could have you could have, you know, the tutorial toilet paper on there, and you could like flip this thing. Yeah. And, and he his video talks about how it would save marriages and that's right. So it's those kinds of products that are kind of funny and yeah, I got a huge on Reddit, like massive on Reddit, which which he used that to cross pollinate his YouTube audience and then he used it to cross pollinate on Tik Tok got it and the guy now has an entire store. I think he just started without selling anything. But now he has an entire like E commerce platform where you can buy these products. And every time he puts out a new video, which is about once a month if he gets on the front page, which equals probably 10 million views that day. And so that's, I'm sure the guy makes pretty great money, making these silly products with these silly ladies Greg Marshall  34:58  having fun too, and he's having a A lot of fun. Yeah, that's I think that's important. So, I think yeah, so so so to wrap it up, you know, we talked a lot about data a lot about the changes. But you know, that's, I've heard that, you know, data is is more valuable now than oil. Which I think is true, since there wasn't valuable, there wouldn't be all these privacy concerns of James Right. Yeah. So I think to wrap it up base, what you want to do is, learn more about different platforms, utilize, you know, different strategies, with growing your business and understanding that things are always changing. And so you must as a business, if you want to survive, you have to adapt, you know, the things that work yesterday, they're not gonna work today. And you just have to constantly be changing your approach and your strategy. And that's what makes us you know, fun and exciting is you're never gonna get bored because things are never gonna stay the same in this space, right? No, no. So I think you know, if you ever need help with any of your marketing strategy or your your, your messaging or things of that nature, you can always go to my website, Greg book a free call. And then Blake, how do they get ahold of you Blake Beus  36:13  not just go to Blake calm and you can see all the different ways to interact with me there. There's some you know, some freebies, I have a membership on there. And yeah, you can reach out to me that way. All Greg Marshall  36:26  right. Well, hopefully you guys enjoyed this podcast and we'll talk to you guys soon. Okay. Later.  

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