4 days ago
4 days ago
Blake Beus 0:00 All right, leads like you were you're talking about, I don't know, a new way to do leads or leads or a new way to at least look at leads. Yeah, so
Greg Marshall 0:09 I actually got the inspiration from listen to a podcast yesterday, which I respect, so shout out to perpetual traffic. But basically what they were discussing a case study that they did where I was like, that makes sense, because lead generation, sometimes can be challenging to do for companies, because of the quality of the lead. Okay, right. So you can get a whole bunch of leads, but then they're like, well, these leads aren't very qualified, or they're just kind of looky loos. And that's like, the nightmare of every business owner is to just generate a bunch of like, people that actually are not qualified. And so what they had discussed was because they were in a highly competitive industry, and everyone is offering the same thing, right, like a free consultation, or a free, whatever. Uh, huh. What it was doing was it was attracting and training the audience to get this free offer, it's kind of like not really commit. So what they did is they changed it to where they renamed the offer, and actually added more to it. So instead of just like a free consultation, they gave it a name where it was like a, I think they call it an integrative wellness plan, okay. And what it was was a multitude of things to give them a full plan, right? Not just like, we'll just take a look at you and see what's wrong.
Blake Beus 1:31 So it was a free consultation, right? Yep. But now, it's which the consultation, to be honest, is almost always some sort of a sales call it which is fine doesn't mean like, it's a high pressure sales type thing. But it's like, hey, we want to make we want to see if we're a good fit for one another. And here's what here's whatever. But everybody calls that a consultation. Yep. So that still that still exists. And, but this is the consultation called plus, which is more than a plan, it actually maps out like, we're gonna look at this, this, this and that, versus coming for a free consultation, and they gave it a name like, they named it the packet.
Greg Marshall 2:10 And I don't think it's 100% Prep, I think they said something like the integrative wellness plan or something like that, right. But then they went one step further, what they did was actually charged for it. And they said, instead of it being free, it's $9, to get to get it going now, to actually do it. And they actually found, they tested the free consultation to that, they actually noticed they had an uptake of like phone calls and actions on the site, people purchasing. And the type of person that was actually coming in, was more like ready to go. So they're just like, well, here's my $99. And we'll go ahead and, you know, move forward. And let's see what this plan is about. And then they were more open to purchasing. Right, right, versus the other one, they said they kept running into the problem of the show rate was really bad with the free consultation, right? Because there's no commitment, right? $100, you will show up. And then the other thing was the person that came in for the free consultation versus the integrative approach, they typically had a bad taste in their mouth, because they just felt like they've come in for this free consultation, and they would do a bait and switch.
Blake Beus 3:20 Right. So they felt bait and switch. And honestly, it's like, kind of keeping a finger on the pulse of people out there, your your customers out there. And And if people are starting to feel like these free consultation calls are just a bait and switch. They're starting to look at you or even the industry as a whole kind of like used car salesmen that I was just driving down the road and it said, you know, get into your car for 77 cents. Yep. You know, and everybody knows. That's stupid. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So so they started charging for it, they charge $99 They added more things to it. The consultation call had a purpose. Now, were they trying to make that $99 purchase their profit leader, or profit a lot like loss leader or just, they weren't trying to necessarily make that profitable? No, no, they were just using it to qualify leads. Correct. So if they lost money on the $99 care, they didn't care because you're still looking at cost per lead. Correct. As opposed to I need to make this ad profitable. Exactly. Exactly. I love that shift in mentality. And sometimes that's all we really need. I worked with a company A while ago that they were thrilled if they got a qualified lead at $150 a lead. Yep. And I know some people aren't $150 A lead but these this company had a service that was started at $1,200 a month. Okay. And the service was great. And once people signed up, they were with them for years and years and years. Yep. So $150 lead was was for qualified leads was very, very, very profitable for them. And but if you're thinking with this type of an offer, I spend $100. Or, or I spent, let's say, I spent $100 on an ad and to get one purchase yet I'm breaking even, I got a free lead. Yep, I got a lead for free. That's and fantastic and qualified, pre qualified or even if you spent, you know, $100. And it costs you two $200 to get that lead or whatever, your instead of 100, but it's still at 100 bucks for a lead. And that's a qualified lead. And if your next offer is very profitable, you're you're still doing well,
Greg Marshall 5:37 well. And I think that's the biggest challenge with the service side, I was actually explaining this to one of my other friends that does marketing that only does on the service side. And I told him well, I typically prefer to do e commerce, even though a lot of other advertising agencies do not. And it's simple. The reason for me that I like it is because it's very cut and dried. So I spent X amount of dollars, I made this much back, and there's not very much discussion on is it working or not right versus a lead? Gen typically, what makes it challenging is you don't know how good of a salesperson or sales team they have, how good their sales process actually is. Yeah. Do they follow up to like there's there's too many things that the easiest person to blame with lead generation is the marketer? Well, yeah,
Blake Beus 6:21 as a as a media buyer agency and things like that. You have to make sure that those back end processes are working, and you have almost zero controls, and you can drop hints, and you can say, hey, let's dial in this back end process. But if they have someone on the team that's like, Nope, we're good. Everything's working great. And you know, it's not Yeah, you're going to get blamed for spending their ad money. Yeah, when they're not. They're not capable of closing the deal.
Greg Marshall 6:50 And they'll typically say, well, these leads aren't very good. Oh, yeah, blame the leads. But here's the thing. I'm a media buyer, but I think, slightly different than most media buyers. And the fact that I started reverse, meaning I originally came from the sale, right? From the sales side and running sales teams. And if there's one thing that I know, is that sales teams are full of excuses, when it comes to what sales sees want is they want to call someone on the phone one time, have them answer, have their credit card ready and buy the most expensive highest commission product possible. But if that scenario doesn't work that way, immediately, the lead is bad. Yeah. Right. And I know that and so anytime I hear that I almost will view the business like, Hey, I've heard this story before. Right? Every person who's selling will always say the leads are not very good. If they're not buying
Blake Beus 7:50 instantly, right? Yeah, well, it's so it's so interesting, because I've been on sales teams. Before when I was going through college, I worked, worked in sales, and it was pretty easy for me to fall into the mentality. When I started that the person over there that is consistently number one, or number two for the month in sales, and I'm over here like number eight, out of a 10 person to it was easy for me to fall into, well, they're just getting all the good to get the good leads. Which was stupid, because we had a bucket of leads. And they were just pan it out. They were just handed out because they were from lead forms or whatever. And we had to follow up. Yep. Turns out I was the problem. Yeah. And I needed to get organized with how I followed up with people. And then I started consistently getting up to the number two number three spot. Yep. But
Greg Marshall 8:42 that's that's really typically the case. But with that being said, there is times where there are times when the leads are really not qualified. Sure. And coming from the sales back on, I remember that too. Like we're, if I have a list of 10 leads, I never was of the belief that it's purely a numbers game, like sales managers that I've worked with before in the past are like, it's just get on your phone call any phone number. And if you call 100 times you're close, whatever. And I always thought, Well, how do I get them a little bit more pre qualified to where like, if I if you're going to sell something that requires you to have a bank account, which I've run into this before, and I'm talking to a person who doesn't have a bank account, they're, they're not qualified, right? Doesn't matter how good of a salesperson like that lead technically is not qualified. Or it's the same people in real estate. You can't sell a home to someone has a 100 credit score. Yeah, right. Like it's just it's not going to work. They do have to be qualified. And so I do I do like their process of taking it one step further. Implementing the they're paying for this, you know, integrative approach. They changed the language, they changed the offer, and they started to get an increase in leads and one of the big things that they were talking about is don't necessarily worry about the cost per lead, worry more about the qualified lead coming in. Because you can get kind of fooled and to going after cheap leads, but not they're not really qualified.
Blake Beus 10:14 I mean, you want cheap leads, it's so easy you get leads for 10 cents a lead, if you don't care about qualified leads, it's very easy. It's very, very easy. And, frankly, there are unfortunately, marketing and media buying agencies out there that that's what they do. And they just kind of burn through clients. And they, they their case studies are oftentimes like, these guys were paying $50 to Lea, we got it down to $1.50 per lead. Yeah. And they brag about that they sign up a new client, they spend a bunch of their money they make they make the agency makes a bunch of money over the next six months or a year, they usually try to get them to sign some sort of time period, long term contract, and then they burn through that. And then they move on, they move on to the next thing. And I don't think those types of companies are more media buying agencies as they are sales teams that sell their services. Exactly better than they do anything else. Yes. Yeah. They're they're essentially just better salesman. Yeah, than another for their own products. Yeah, yeah. And I, you know, you know, you could have an argument for that, which is, it's just not good. As far as like, if you're truly trying to grow,
Greg Marshall 11:26 you got to get a good qualified leads for them to grow. And I just think this approach is slightly different. Also, in this case, it was a locally based company. So a smaller market, but I still think like, if you focus on trying to get more qualified leads, which does from the media buying standpoint, you almost do have to train the business owner, you have to be okay with a high because it will cost you more, there's no doubt about it. Yeah, it's going to cost you more than like, hey, just put your email in, versus fill out a little bit of a longer form. And prequalify your so there's no doubt it's going to cost you more. But you almost have to not be fixated on cost per lead. It's more of cost per sale, right. And if you can think of it more in that standpoint, you could get a little bit more aggressive. And you'll and you'll basically feel better, because emotionally, it's just tougher to go, Well, I got these leads for five bucks with this other marketing strategy. And then this, the current one is 150. But I'm getting sales with the one with 150. But getting nothing with the $5. But it plays a mental game with you because you're like, am I overpaying for leads? Right? And it's like, Well, no. If one is if they're buying thereby Absolutely not. And the math word Yeah.
Blake Beus 12:46 And there's a huge, huge, huge commitment and self qualification difference between someone typing in their email address, versus pulling out their credit card, and paying 100 bucks for something that is directly aligned with your big your bigger offer or service or whatever that is, yeah, there they are, you're basically going to a big room of 10,000 people and saying, everybody who is a perfect fit for what I'm selling, raise your hand. And they're pre qualifying themselves, the sales process is easier because the people have already said, I'm interested, that's me, I want to buy, as opposed to you just giving getting everybody's contact info. And now you got to call them. Yep, so the sales process is easier. running ads is easier and less stressful. Because something like that you don't ever really need to scale up to $2,000 a day, $3,000 a day to make it to make it profitable. You could be very, very profitable depending on your business at a $200 a day ad spend or a $500 a day ad spend with just a couple of campaigns super simple, very, very simple structure, simple to manage, simple to keep an eye on simple to diagnose. Just it's easier all the way around. I'm laughing
Greg Marshall 14:04 because I have a personal experience with this, which is in the beginning stages of like running ads for my personal services. I noticed there was one word that if you changed, it made a difference on the quality of the prospect and it's it's interesting because you would think one word wouldn't make that much of a difference like, like everything considered the same way or I'm saying the same thing. But I added one word and it changed who spoke to me, like the type of person that would reach out and that one word was I would say I did social media marketing. And then the second one that improves on social media ads. Okay, and one would attract someone that was more like beginner stage, looking for organic Anik type route, how many times a day do I post? Right? That kind of an audience? And the second got, and this is my fault, right? It's, I didn't clarify, because really who I services people who run ads, right. And so I might, but social media marketing technically falls under that umbrella. But that's not what the consumer notice, right. Here's
Blake Beus 15:23 what you're getting in. And again, it's it's a pre qualifier, yep. If someone looks at that ad and says, and it says, you know, Greg Marshall helps with social media ads. Yep. And they think, oh, that's for me, that person already has an established business. Yep, that person is already making sales. That person already has a product or a service or whatever, probably already has a website. Yep. All of those things, which you can't help them with their ads, if they don't have the exact, exact. Whereas if it's social media marketing, they might just have like, a couple of social media accounts. And literally no website, no ads. No, no, even registered business probably not might not even have a business bank account.
Unknown Speaker 16:09 Exactly. And that's just that one word made a difference on because I was sifting through things like, why is it that this campaign that looks exactly the same?
Greg Marshall 16:22 Is getting me who I want. And this other one is not. But when I say the same, I'm talking like the same video that I mean, everything is essentially created equal. So what I finally noticed on one campaign, I was using the word ad. And then the other I just left it out social media marketing. Yeah. And I was like, interesting. That's really all it is, is and then I started going back into my customer database. And people who came in through I had different forms. But they pretty much said the same thing. And the ones that came in through one form, closed very high. And they were all like, Yeah, I've been running ads, or like, they had that kind of a backstory. And then the other one was like, the I have a Facebook, and I'm thinking about starting a YouTube channel. And as you can see, those are two different types of people, one that has run ads, who we can serve and serve as well. And the other one is theirs, they have not made it to the advertising for yet, they're still kind of in startup mode. Those are two totally different people who can serve us. And we can serve as both. But we serve as one much better than the other. And it's much easier, and we can get them more profits. Like there's there's a much better alignment. So it's like, it's like a doctor, right? Like a brain surgeon could probably help anyone. Yeah, like anyone has like a health issue. But they're what they're really good at, is people who have a brain, right? Have a brain, right? Like, that's, that's what they're really good at. And so it's it's similar, it's like, you just have to focus on where you can deliver the best results. And like live right there. And I discovered that just with one word, and so to like wrap that back into this whole offer thing. Yeah, how they switch just the naming of the offer, and then had a price point attached to it changed everything, even though they're still dressing
Blake Beus 18:23 the same horse, right. One thing I wanted to bring up about that is, is giving it an offer, giving it a name. And then putting a price tag on it makes everything feel much more tangible, even if it's just a digital deliverable. And what I mean by that is, if I if I'm going to have a free consultation call, I don't know what I'm going to walk away with gaint Well, I don't know what I'm going to gain from that consultation call. Even if I list out, we'll talk about this in this in this in this. I still don't know what I'm going to gain out of it. And it makes it easy for me to blow that meeting off or whatever. Right? And but if if it has a name, it's it has, you're going to get a download with it, you're buying it is much more tangible, like buying a shirt. Yeah. And so people who are a good fit are much more likely to take action on that. And it's going to be easier to upgrade them because they're a good fit for your service and service is going to benefit them and they've got a little taste of it. You only got to work with you on something and they got something out of it. Yeah. And I
Greg Marshall 19:31 think that's that's a key lesson that I learned. And I remember I used to almost discount like, are people paying attention to the message that much. But that shows you they are right, because literally changing one word know made the difference between who reaches out who doesn't. Right. And, and I think that if anything, if you can take anything from the case study of lead generation, it's really focusing more on how do I repel have the wrong person and attract the right one. And usually, if you repel one, it will naturally attract the other. Right? And it's very easy to forget that because you get the feeling of a why want everyone? Right? There's this fear. I want everyone I might miss out, right? versus saying, Hey, we don't really want to work with these types of people. We want to work with these types. Yeah. Right, because they're the ones we could actually help and help successfully. Right. And the other point that they made in a case study, which really resonates with me, especially early on in my career, even in fitness, fitness market doesn't matter. The ones that like they, they associated, like, you can almost train people to be like Groupon buyers, where they're never fully committed. And so even if you get them, they don't stick around long. Like they're they're gone quickly, right? And that's not really sustainable business. No, you have to have people who stick around for a long time. And that really resonated with me, because I was like, Well, if you get the right person who already fits that mold, you're going to keep them. Yeah, for a long time. Because it's like, you're like you said the word alignment. Your line is like, perfect. So therefore, you're both going into this kind of knowing, like, Hey, this is a long term play here. versus the other. You can attract a person that's like, Yeah, I'll just like dip my toe in and kind of see how this works. Yeah. But I'm not really that committed. Yeah. So it's kind of like online dating. Right? Where people are, like, they're not really even committing because they haven't even met you in person yet. Right? So just by saying, yes, on Tinder, or whatever the other apps are now, that doesn't mean there's any kind of commitment. It's very like, yeah, that sounds today. Sounds good. And if I have absolutely nothing else to do tomorrow, I'll meet up with
Blake Beus 21:54 it. I mean, swiping right, is a much.
Unknown Speaker 21:58 It's not even really a commitment, but actually showing up to go to coffee or whatever is is and we want those people. Right. Will that show up to coffee? Yeah, knowing we are meeting this person with the intent of potentially pursuing a relationship. Yeah, versus just, you know, swiping right or doing the group or I'm just gonna put my toe on there and see
Blake Beus 22:22 you bringing up Groupon gives me another thought. I think this is a potential trap people could fall into if you're not careful trying to implement this, in that. The big problem I see with Groupon is the offer the product is literally just a discount. Yeah. Right of something that someone might buy anyway. And that's why people buy Groupon. And then they never go back there. Again, no matter what Groupon says, that happens all the time. And you can talk to any business, that's lunch, a Groupon deal. That's almost always exactly how it works, you get a bunch of people come in, because you gave them a discount, and then you never see them again, yeah, you might get a couple, but the return rate is very, very, very small, because they're used to getting the discount that deal or whatever. I think the trap would be to do something similar. We have a product or offer or a service that is $500. Yeah. And so now we've bundled this, given it a cool name and everything, and given a $99 price tag. And now it's just a discount. It's not, there's no plan behind that. There's no larger offer whatever, we're just, we're just giving a discount, and you might make the sales. But again, what you're doing is you're you're you're pushing everything to be profitable on the cold traffic right up front, when that really just needs to be your lead gen. So what I would definitely not do is take an existing product or offer and discount that and try this strategy with it, I would come up with a new product or offer that is less effort for you to deliver and execute on. So you don't have to dump a bunch of time into it. And fits in between your offer that you really want to sell them and someone that's never purchased and make it this inbetween thing. Which is exactly what this particular company did, right. It was a brand new kind of thing to execute on it. They literally just have to do the consultation call and then maybe make some notes and then send them the PDF, because I'm sure it's all templatized and everything. So the execution and delivery of that is super easy. Yep. And it leads directly into the next product. So don't fall in the trap of just taking something you have existing discounting and giving it a cool name and thinking the strategy's gonna work. It probably won't
Greg Marshall 24:42 Yeah, and I just for me, personally, I found I have resisted I know the value ladder works really well for a lot of people. Especially in E commerce, I think Congress where it works big time, but I found that I'd much rather Do something how they describe like, the free consultations almost package different. And you have to prequalify by paying, then even just trying to consistently discount things. And I just feel like you train the audience to behave in a certain way. That's not really what you want to know. Right? And especially, like the complaint that I consistently will hear from people when they're generating leads. These people don't have any money. Right? They'll say, I'm talking to nothing but broke people. Right, right. And I hear this, like, a lot. Were there like, and I think the offer could fix it. Right? Because it's about what you're saying. Right? And I, what I've noticed is there there's a correlation between where that business owner is sending that person, what they're saying. Yeah. versus, like, if they're making it sounds like they're not repelling people. Right, right. So for an example, if you just say free anything, well, you're going to attract the person that's just into free. But if you repurpose or make it like, it's almost in sales, you call it the takeaway clothes, right? This is only for people that can do X, Y, and Z and are really serious about their health. And if you're not very serious, we don't really want to work with you. Because we only want community, right? Like, what that kind of does is it causes the person you could call it a takeaway, close, or ego close, it causes the person to say, oh, no, I'm serious. Yeah, and frames them into now I need to take serious acts because I need to save face,
Blake Beus 26:40 right? I think it does. It does two things, right. Because everybody's on the spectrum of I'm committed, and I'm not committed and everybody's here. And a closed like that basically forces people to either say, I am actually committed as this mental kind of I'm committing to this. So it shoves them further to the commitment, or people that are a shoves them further away to the non commitment. And really, that's what you want to do with leads, is have people self select and self filter, so that when you do get on a call with someone, they are much, much, much more likely to be committed, number one, because they're a better fit. And number two, they've already kind of pre committed because you told them this is only for people that are ready to commit. Yeah. And they're like, I'm ready to commit. And it's, it's, it's a psychological thing that helps with motivation. And and it's great, yeah, I'll
Greg Marshall 27:27 take an action. And I think it takes me back to setting appointments for personal training, where the I would always so when I started closing more, was when I would talk to the the prospect who was going to do a free fitness assessment. That's right, Jim called it. And I would say, All right, so they will say so is this totally free. And I say, it's totally free, what we do is we go over all of your goals, and then come up with a step by step gameplan, on how you're going to achieve those goals, with the strategies that we're going to share with you now. At the end, I am going to show you our personal training programs and pricing to see if you'd like to move forward with that. And I would throw that in there a purpose to let them know, this is not going to be a surprise attack. Right? This is literally I'm telling you right now, I'm going to offer you my goal. And sometimes people will say, Well, are you going to sell me something? I would say, Yeah, my goal is to sell you on personal training. That is my goal. Yeah. And because I think it works, right, those people that would show up, we're already framed, like,
Blake Beus 28:32 I know, this is going to cost money. They've already kind of committed to that versus in my beginning stage of the career, I would say Oh no, it's totally free. And I kept getting people that would just come in, get the free workout and say let me just go home and think about this. And just that small like it's not a lot like it's not like I changed my entire brands in I just literally would tell them at the end I'm going to show you programs and prices. Yeah. And my goal is to get you enrolled in one right and that would make people that aren't that already know they're not going to commit or already know they're probably not going to buy they're probably going to not they're much more likely to not schedule that free consultation which is fine. Yes. Because great because you're not a good fit for one another anyway Yeah, nothing against those people at all. It's just much more straightforward and clear communication and all of that stuff. So that people know what they're getting the whole surprise sales thing I still am floored when companies and salespeople try the surprise tax sales thing
Unknown Speaker 29:37 is or mislead you Oh no, I'm
Blake Beus 29:39 not trying to sell you Oh yeah, I'm not trying to sell you and then and then you you sit through their presentation and and you're just like oh my gosh, I gotta well and you know it's
Greg Marshall 29:51 funny you know how I discovered to use this was it was actually by accident. Well not I guess not by accident but through pure frustration, okay, me and my friend at the time. And an ex business partner when we were running the personal training companies, we had a blast, by the way. But we this is how we discovered it. I should give him a call after this podcast at times you remember.
Unknown Speaker 30:17 So we, the way we discovered it was we were constantly getting pounded by the like upper management. You need to have more appointments on your schedule, like this is a numbers game, right? So, of course, being good soldiers, we want it to follow suit and do what they're saying. So he said, Alright, great. So he and I went out, and we set so the just the, you know, the average daily amount of appointments, you would get in this location was like maybe three or four historically, right? And we set and one day, I want to say it was 15 or 16 appointments split between two people. These are our long presentations, by the way. So we got in like six o'clock in the morning and work all the way to like eight or nine. And we were like, couple people that show up. And the people that did they showed up lay and in all we did is we just tried to get as many appointments as possible. We went through all of those and close zero. Okay, I want you to think of the this is on a Friday on top of that. So we're young, it's Friday, we spent our entire wasted our entire day with a bunch of unqualified prospects, people with no bank accounts or no intent. By right. At the end, we went on looked each other in the eye, we were exhausted. We were like, completely, like, what did we just do? And we followed the advice, right? That night, we sat there, we watched the movie. And then we started like game planning. We said, You know what, let's not take any appointments that aren't pre qualified, like this is tell him straight up. Like, if you don't have a bank account, if you're not interested in really getting in shape, we're not setting an appointment, right? There you go, we did that. Okay, we started only scheduling two or three appointments a day. So we had more free time than ever. So you're
Blake Beus 32:12 a little bit below average number of appointments per day,
Unknown Speaker 32:16 we beat the sales record in that location, using this strategy. And then what happened was, we both got promoted to new locations together. And they kept saying we just ran the same play, we would so everyone else that was in our market was setting 10 appointments, just wasting their time all day, meaning it would show up, we'd have one appointment in the morning, one in the afternoon, go to the pole right after an A and B top and sales.
Blake Beus 32:44 So your your sales, you have more free time not only to have more free time, you have more time to prequalify appointments, I'm not sure how you but you guys getting your own appointments. Yeah, so you have more time to get your own appointments. Because the other problem with packing yourself with appointments all day long is I can't get new leads with that kind of model. So if I do eight appointments a day, they're eight hours long, where am I going to get tomorrow's appointments from or the day after? That's appointments. So you guys actually have more free time, more time to qualify leads and get good appointments scheduled. We're trying to follow up with people that legitimately couldn't come for legitimate reasons. And you're beating all the sales records.
Greg Marshall 33:20 And we had a whole lot more fun because what we started doing, we made a game out of which is like, how little of appointments can we get while smashing the goal?
Unknown Speaker 33:30 So we would try to precisely look for someone and we sat down I still remember we sat down in the office. And we wrote out okay, what does the person that pays the most always look like what how did they approach the gym? How can you tell why their body language, and we literally figured it out. We were like, they were these types of clothes. These types of sneakers, they're about this old, they usually come in around these times. They have a body language of like they're unsure but scared and intimidated. And so you had to talk to them in a certain way. We always waited till they were walking on the treadmill to approach them. Like we literally came down with like, precise formula.
Blake Beus 34:15 So you're not necessarily interrupting their workout because they're walking they're still but but they they aren't moving between machines. So they came to you like you're like oh man.
Greg Marshall 34:28 And we just we just figured this out like we just dialed in and like Okay, and so we're cold approaching people just so you know, these are people that are not in on the point we're straight up cold approaching and we figured it out and it became so easy that we will be like alright, so we would call them by numbers of the size of the contract. Because we because we just knew like not that they weren't valuable as a person. We were labeling like that right there is the perfect like if we're trying to sell someone to come use our training. We need them. If they if they're gonna get result, they need to train now one time a week, ready to train with a trainer three, four or five times a week, right? So and the size of those contracts were like, they'd be like $4,000, where we'd be like, that's a 40 100 right there, just
Unknown Speaker 35:15 wait till she gets on a treadmill, talk to her, set an appointment, she comes in what she did for you. And we just would repeat this. And that's the lesson that I learned in sales, where it's like, you can have 5000 leads a day. But they're not the people, you can serve the best,
Blake Beus 35:33 right? So and they're not gonna stick around, even if they do sign up, they're gonna stick around less whatever your model is, because they're not a good fit. Well, it's worth putting all that time and effort to dial in, who's a good fit, it's you just have way more energy to because if what's more fun, it's more fun to run your business when you're making money.
Unknown Speaker 35:54 Exactly. Then spending your entire Friday as an early 20 year old for 16 hours and literally making $0. And then even worse, I don't you have to call your boss and say, Jesse, you know, we had 16 appointments today and we sold zero,
Blake Beus 36:12 as opposed to calling your boss and saying just so you know, I have three appointments today. Close, close, all three of them. I'm already on
Unknown Speaker 36:19 Friday night later. Hope you have a great day. So that would make the boss happy too, because he made money off of what we show. So I think it was it was a strong learning lesson as far as always prequalify people know who you're actually going after and be okay with having less leads. But more sales. It's almost like there is a correlation.
Blake Beus 36:44 Yeah, definitely. All right, let's wrap this up. Greg. How can people get in touch with you
Greg Marshall 36:48 right marshall.com And you can book a free strategy session and Blake just like you start calm and you can reach out to me there. All right till next time.
Wednesday Jan 18, 2023
Wednesday Jan 18, 2023
Blake Beus 0:00 What was our lead off on this one?
Greg Marshall 0:01 What was the true value?
Blake Beus 0:03 Oh, yeah, the true value of social media. I was like, What did you wrap it up really nice. Yeah. Think of what that was?
Greg Marshall 0:10 Well, we were talking about what the true value of social media is and what that means for businesses, because you were talking about how some businesses feel jaded with social media, like God doesn't work, or it's overly hyped or the use of Word, or even
Blake Beus 0:27 just people. I mean, you hear all of these crazy stories about social media, Elon Musk kicking over Twitter, that's been this roller coaster ride out of news, meta, Facebook, their stock prices are down right now. And so you, you have this kind of attitude with, especially with advertisers that were or businesses that were maybe a little lukewarm about, about being on social media Anyway, you've seen this attitude from them saying things like, you know, it's not worth it. Yeah. Why even play this this game or whatever. But whatever your stance is, on social media being a net negative or net positive for society, and all that stuff. It's still worthwhile showing up on social media and marketing on social media, for many reasons. Yeah. And yeah, so dive into dive into that, because you were talking about some of the reach out to you. Yeah,
Greg Marshall 1:26 someone had reached out to me. And they were discussing, and then there's someone who, they do a lot of advertising and other channels outside of social media. And they had mentioned their struggle with trying to kind of wrap their heads around the true value of is it worth investing in social media? Because he sees other people in his industry, not succeeding? But I told them, I think it's because they're doing it the wrong way.
Blake Beus 1:54 And you said, this is a service based business? Yes. What industry was the real estate? Real estate? Yep.
Greg Marshall 2:00 So with, like, I know exactly talking about because in real estate, the number one challenge, right is always it's highly competitive. And then, really, what you're selling is the same. So it's everyone is selling the exact same product,
Blake Beus 2:17 and the exact same houses even right, like, it doesn't matter which Realtor you are, I mean, that might be your listing. But if I'm representing somebody, any 1000 actors could sell
Greg Marshall 2:26 that house. And that's kind of the the challenge that they all run to. So they all kind of are trying to figure out ways to market themselves. And I know what he was referring to. So he's referring to, we were kind of speaking about video. And he's jaded because he's like, Yeah, I've worked with some people who do a lot of video. And it's like, they're spending all day doing video, but they're not making very much money. And this guy makes a lot of money. Yeah. Okay, so he, so he's viewing that light, from an ROI standpoint, what he's doing is working better. What I tried to tell him, which I think he kind of intuitively knows is, it's just another media channel. So you almost have to remove like, the way someone uses something, is the difference on the success of it. Right? Right. So socially, when I say like, they're most likely using it wrong, in my opinion, if you want to reach a lot of people, you have two different ways to do it. If you do organic, you have to fully commit to organic and do it every day, you need to have strategy, you need to invest money, and time and energy into that it's not free, you still need to invest in it. Or the second one is you need to commit to paid ads. But you need to commit to one of the one of those options and preferably both, right if you want the maximal results. And so that's what I told them is what most people do is they are tiptoeing on, both of these are putting their toe in the water for organic, or putting their toe in the water on pain. Yeah, but they're never putting their whole body in for either or, and that's why they don't see an end result,
Blake Beus 4:07 you're better off going all in on one or the other. Correct. If you don't have the energy or the resources to go all in on, on both, or just have enough time to like dip your toes in on both. You're you're you're going to struggle. And in my opinion, do you need here is this? In my opinion? Yeah, you could either just do none of them and focus on other things. But I do think it's worth still showing up on social media, I would say if you don't have energy to do both, it's probably less energy and less effort to actually do the advertising side of the paid ads than it is to do the organic route. And I say that because the paid ads, you can see relatively quickly what's working, what's not. Whereas with organic, you have to put six months a year into that until you start actually seeing something measurable. But even then it's very, very, very difficult to state, this, these things that I did organically led to the sales Correct. Whereas with paid, it's very easy to say, these ads that I ran led to these sales. And so it's just a much clearer thing. And it's less, in my opinion, less mental energy. But the trade off is you put money into direct, but it doesn't have to be a ton of money. You don't have to like for realtors, if we're talking about that you don't have to put 10 grand a month into showing up in people's ads. Right,
Greg Marshall 5:30 exactly. And I think the point you're making with the paid advertising is if you remove kind of the personal, I guess insecurities from it as well, right? Because, yeah, you know, a lot of a lot of people don't feel comfortable putting themselves out there. It's like public speaking, right? You don't, people, most people are not excited to do public speech. And it's not because public speaking doesn't work and can't grow your business or spread your message. That's not the problem. The problem is you feel insecure about the judgment of what you might get, because I know that's what I felt. But at the same token, if you're going to use social media to like grow your business, you just have to like, you really just have to go, Alright, I'm gonna start taking it serious, I want to invest in it, regardless of the insecurities of what I'm feeling, and I'm gonna measure what I'm doing. But you have to, if you want the true benefit, you have to look at it as no different than any other marketing channel. Like TV advertising, more billboards or direct mail, right? Everyone in those aspects has essentially removed their emotional feeling and attachment to those channels. The social media hasn't been around enough for people that have done that yet. Yeah. So they, they're overly emotional about it, because it's kind of in that gray area of like, you are putting yourself personally out there. And it is a lot more personal because people can comment, or say this is stupid, or they can share it quickly. So there is a little bit more of a fear factor there. But I do think if you just view it as another marketing channel, and you're not emotional about just like your if you buy a TV ad, or a direct mail piece, I think social media is extremely valuable, because you can target better yes, even after iOS changes, you still can target much better than you can on TV, or direct mail my opinion, you can get faster feedback. And you can do a lot more reach a lot more people for a lot less money, right? And they're on their phones anyway. So accomplishing the same goal that you're doing investing in anything else, right?
Blake Beus 7:37 Yeah. And it's, I mean, look, there's lots, like I said, lots of opinions about social media, there's a lot of times Oh, my God, social media, kind of, yeah, but showing up business wise, it adds a lot of authority and everything. So if you are currently doing traditional advertising in any sort of other way, social media is, is literally just another channel. And before we turn the camera on, you were talking about this particular person, and they were saying, Oh, I've seen people put a bunch of time and effort into social media, and they don't make any money. Yeah, they're not they're not very good at it. Yeah. And I would, I would love to look kind of look at what they're doing. But I have a couple of guesses on what those people are doing, where they're putting their time and money into social media, and not selling any houses. My My first guess is they're only putting their time and money into social media. Yep, they're there, they're doing videos 345 times a day, they're trying to grow big on tick tock or some other platform that maybe isn't aligned with the people that are buying houses. And, and they're not very good at maybe the follow up side of things, I'm gonna guess, especially if they're a realtor, which is a sales position. And they're not making a whole lot of money, they probably never really were very good at the whole following up and selling game to begin with, and are trying to compensate with showing up on social media. So they've got maybe it may be going okay, or decent social media presence. But then once they get that contact offline, they have they suffer from the same problem that they had to begin with. Yeah, whereas this particular person, you were saying does really, really well with the current advertising that they're doing, which means they also are really, really good at the follow up side of things, because you literally can't sell houses if you're not following up. And so adding social media as a channel, even if it's not a huge challenge, adding social media as a channel will probably show significant benefits to them and what they have because they have their offline processes already dialed
Greg Marshall 9:43 in. Yeah, and I think this individual, I think would do exceptionally well with the paid ads on social media. And that's actually what I advised him. Yeah, we're at the gym talking. I was saying, you know, I really think that paid advertising is the way to go. Especially if you're someone who does not, doesn't have a desire to commit to creating an organic following. Yeah, right. Like,
Unknown Speaker 10:12 you just, if you don't want to do that, just do the paid ads route. It's faster and easier. It's easier. And with something like real estate, right? The organic stuff,
Blake Beus 10:24 it's gonna be really hard to show up organically on any platform, as as a as a realtor, and you just need to understand that because the fact of the matter is, is when do I follow a realtor? Yeah, only when I'm looking for a house. And when I bought my house, I unfollow the realtor, right? Like I don't, I don't need to see your content for the next 510 years. And so what you what you really need to do is capture the attention of people at that point in time when they're looking for a house or looking to sell their house. And paid is literally the best way to do that. Because you're guaranteed to show up in front of people. And you know how many people you're showing up in front of all of the like mysteriousness goes away. Now, I'll almost always recommend if someone's doing paid, that they post something organically, like once a week. Yeah, you know, just to show up and so your account doesn't look dead. Yeah. But it doesn't have to be amazing content or anything, just show up somehow, organically. So it shows doing stuff.
Greg Marshall 11:29 And you don't have to do it every day. No, not every day. And it's not. I just feel like the paid route is just perfect for that industry and individuals that are looking to get in front of people because you make a great point. Real Estate, I mean, what content does a real estate agent put out? Hey, I got these houses, I got these houses by looking to buy yourself. And it's it's repetitive. But the problem is, every real estate agent is doing the exact same organic strategy. Right? So you're literally competing, is everyone else doing the exact same? Or maybe if someone's doing it slightly different? It's not that much different to the consumer. Yeah, right. Like to the kid like me, for example. So who would be in a market to go buy a house or somebody that I look at all the content as the same, it's all the same like, because I don't, I'm not a professional. I'm not a real estate professional. So I don't know how different this content is. It's just this person is telling me about a house says this one, one person's tell me about interest rates. So this one, one person says the market is going up or down? So this one versus if you just run paid, you could just say, Are you looking to, you know, buy, sell, do whatever, this is what I can do for you. And if you can outbid your competitors, you can get those eyeballs to you, right?
Blake Beus 12:45 And the thing is, is like, if you just get in the mindset of Why does someone pick a specific realtor or plumber or whatever, since we're kind of talking about service based businesses, a lot of it has to do with trust. Yep. And if you're showing up in their in their ads, and they're getting to know your personality, they are automatically building some of that trust, especially in a highly regulated industry, like real estate or Friday Services and Financial Services, right? Because basically, everybody's offering the same thing, because you have to offer what's within regulations, right? Like, yeah, you can maybe tweak some of the numbers here there, you might be able to find a slightly better interest rate, because you got a mortgage place that has favorable rates right now, but you're looking at a quarter of a percent difference, maybe, yeah, but so so the product itself is almost identical. It's the service, the trust, the offline offline support. Yep. But it has to be you have to, they have to know who you are first and have to build that trust, before they're going to reach out to you. And you can close those those deals,
Greg Marshall 13:53 you make a statement that is often like, discounted when it comes to advertising, which is you have to be known. Yeah. What is the VAT? Like the value is? People first need to know you before they could do anything, right. And if you're gonna ask me to pay 500 $600 million for a home, I would like to know you. Yeah. Right. I want to know that you're going to take care of mount a big decision. And that's the part where, because we're all in such a rush. And we're not thinking long term. I need a return right now today. And so you ended up doing a lot of these activities where you're like, oh, it's not working after 30 days. Well, who knows anyone after 30 days, you're talking to a cold market, who's also being tough. Imagine if, if you're trying to date someone, and they have literally 1000s of people all trying to date them. Every day every single day and every single person says they're better. They're richer their services gonna be the best of all, it's literally everyone's telling them that all day just picture that when you're thinking of trying to sell your customer in a service based business that's highly competitive. A 1000s of people are trying to date that exact same person. And so you have to figure out a way to stand out.
Blake Beus 15:16 Yeah, well, I'm thinking here locally in Utah. There are there is one realtor, and one lawyer who has had different people, different businesses, everything that has billboards up, up and down the main freeway here. I haven't seen any of their ads on social media, they probably run ads, I'm just probably not in their target market, which is fine. I'm not looking for either of their services. But the thing is, is they've had those billboards up switching places slightly different for easily 15 years. Yeah. Why Why spend that much money if it's not working? And why is it working for them? Like if I put up a billboard right now, I was a realtor. And I put up a billboard right now, I'd spend, I don't know, 5k a month, 10k a month, depending on the location, and I probably wouldn't get a whole lot out of it. Yep. But these guys have multiple. And it's not because they're selling different houses. It's because over time they've consistently shown up. And literally, you can't think of choosing a realtor without thinking of this particular person's name. In this part of Utah, you might not go with them. There might be but but you're gonna think of them, are you and you are no, you know, and same thing with the lawyer if you have, if you have a need for a defense attorney, there's the one lawyer you're gonna know, because they've been showing up for two decades, on on billboards or just in different places. Yep. You have, you have to do that you just have to the cool thing with social media is is that you can do you can show up, especially in a local geographic area, you can show up cheap, yep. And let everybody know who you are, without spending five grand a month for a billboard in a single location for five for five grand a month for a realtor to show up in front of a lot of people like that. That goes,
Greg Marshall 17:10 it goes away very long. Yeah. And it's social media just doing just, if you look at it, and you remove the emotion, he just said, another marketing channel is faster and cheaper than all the other marketing channels.
Blake Beus 17:24 Yeah. So even in 2023, because we're in 2023. Now, even with all of the craziness with social media, and all of the people predicting that, you know, everything's gonna collapse, Twitter's gonna burn and crash and ground, whatever. And that might happen. But even with all of those things happening, it's still worthwhile showing up on social media. And if you don't have the energy to do organic Throw, throw some money into the paid ads. It's, it's maybe a little bit more intimidating to get started, but I swear, it's easier than trying to come up with really creative viral is all. So yeah, let's wrap it up. How can people get
Greg Marshall 18:03 in touch with you, Greg? marshall.co. You can book a free strategy call.
Blake Beus 18:07 What about Blake beus.com?
Greg Marshall 18:09 All right, so next time see you later. Okay. Bye.
Monday Jan 16, 2023
Monday Jan 16, 2023
Blake Beus 0:00 You were talking about hustlers mentality marketing plan. Yeah. All of that, like, yeah. Well tell me what you're thinking. Yeah. So
Greg Marshall 0:08 I think having a marketing strategy is important and kind of knowing how to get your messaging out there. And one of the things I was saying is, even if you don't have a large budget, I think the overall idea is you have to have a huge budget, in order to make marketing work. And that's not based that's not the case, that's not the full story, you either have more time, or more money, if you can do both. That's the optimal. But if you have less money, put more of your time. And if you have more time, he's more money, right? So you try to do a good trade off, and what you're doing but hustlers mentality, I was saying, a strong strategy that works really well from a tactical side is manual outreach, if you're trying to promote an event, or a service, right, and this manual outreach, I actually use this in the beginning of my couple of businesses, and it works like a charm, what you want to do is you want to find people who have the audience you already want, and you just start reaching out every day, you create a spreadsheet, put their name, phone, numbers, emails, and you essentially start working that list. And you want to have an offer that makes sure that the person you're talking to gets a huge benefit. In exchange for sharing the product serves that you have to their particular audience, one of the best ways to do that is to demonstrate how by them maybe donating a product, or a service, or sharing this their audience, they're also going to get in front of the audience you have right or will be going after it right. And it could be kind of have a joint promotion, and everyone wins there. Because every business is lead generating, trying to get more people to write their business. So it allows it allows you to add more resources to a marketing plan on both ends,
Blake Beus 2:00 right? Yeah, that's, uh, yeah, that's, I mean, I've participated in some of these, you know, business, lead groups and some, some things like that. And I think that's, that's one of the ways a lot of businesses are trying to do that. But the reality is, is you doing something like that for yourself, or like, owning that whole process, instead of just showing up to a lead generation group is going to be much more beneficial to you and everyone else? But I do, I do want to jump back to what you said, you know, you got either money or time if you have both. It's great. My observation, though, is that there are quite a few times when an organization or a person has money, yep. And then they go out and market because they're like, Well, I've got some money, well, let's do this. But they're not being smart with that. And they burn through a ton of cash, because that's the asset that they have a lot of Yep. And they end up getting kind of poor and miserable results. And honestly, if it's if someone had a stack of cash, and they're just starting out with a business or something, or a new venture, or a new pivot, say they made money in this business over here, starting out with the hustle mentality is still probably a better way to go. Yes. Then it is to drain your reserves upfront.
Greg Marshall 3:19 Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the things that I think about is a story Daymond John shared where he said, like, he made all his money and FUBU. He was a multimillionaire, he financed that new project through only through money into it thought of no marketing strategy. And he said, he blew it off. And he said, he thought, because he had the money, that that would solve the problem. We all deal with speed up the failure, right? So I like to take that lesson that he shared and think like, even if you have millions of dollars in reserves, you still should have the hustle mentality of test quickly, and in small steps, where you're not risking it. All right, so you're saying, well, let's first figure out if we do some outreach, and maybe some lower budget test, to even see if we can gain traction and figure out messaging. And you still use the same fundamentals. And I think it's the same in like, let's, let's use basketball, for example. Basketball is a very easy game, you just put the ball in the hoop, right? But there's a lot more that goes into that. But when people start to get overly fancy and focus more on half court trick shots and dunks, I mean, that's not the best way to go about it. Because if you focus more on that, those are a lot harder than just doing the fundamentals of putting the ball in the basket. It always goes back to the fundamentals instead of trying to get fancy, and do all of these fancy things. Do the things that are not as attractive, which is know how to do your bounce passes. Know how to make a layup, a regular layup, not a reverse layup, not a dunk for the free throw line. Just get very good at that and then slowly expand and that's how I kind of equate He's using a lot of money is the focusing on the slam dunk before you actually focus on learning how to do the layup
Blake Beus 5:07 Yes, yeah. Small little tangent. Yep. To, you know, hi, everybody shoots their free throws. Yes. Did you know that statistically, if everybody shot underhand free throws, you would get about 20 to 30% more free throws made in the basket, which is crazy, but no one will do it because they don't want to look, Grant shots. But but because of the motion, you're actually closer to the basket because of the rope, you're able to get a better rotation to roll it in. And it's been proven over and over again, but no one has asked because they want to look, they don't want to look like that.
Greg Marshall 5:38 You know what you actually bring up another great point, which is the perception how you want to be perceived by everyone else. Right. So don't make the mistake of trying to be perceived more like different and almost value that more than the results that you would get, yeah, that's more effective, yet, you don't look as prestigious.
Blake Beus 6:02 And the thing to remember in your business is you don't have 100 cameras on you, you're not being watched by millions of people. Most people in their everyday lives aren't really paying attention to your your business and what you're doing. So really, if you're concerned about your perception with I don't know, your peers or your neighbors or, or even maybe potential customers, I wouldn't worry about that so much as I would worry about what's working. And what's working is oftentimes not flashy, not sexy, not high budget, whatever video marketing, whatever, not not so bringing in celebrities, as a sponsor, usually what works especially at first is the basics, right? You're you're talking to bounce passes, or, or creating a list of people you can reach out to and form like a good relationship with where you can trade each other services or something like that, that is boring, all marketing. But that's marketing that is highly profitable for the amount of effort and cost.
Greg Marshall 7:02 Well, and the other thing, I want to really harp on that because I liked the point that you brought about perception. Most people don't want to do the outreach, because of the perception, they perceive it as below them, right. I'm a business owner, I shouldn't have to do that. Or my product is so good, I shouldn't have to do that. And that's really a limiting belief. Because most of the time, I know for me personally, most almost all of my biggest deals have been from outreach. Yeah. And it's, it's simply just networking and developing a relationship and not having the ego to think I don't need to be doing that, or I'm so important that I'm not going to send out reach someone else has to do it. Right. That's, that's where I think you can get a lot of trouble as you try to remove yourself just from the day to day, you know, things that businesses need, just don't worry about what the perception is get the results real
Blake Beus 7:57 well. And that is so interesting to me. Because every single business that grows from nothing to whatever, there's huge, there's almost always a strong leader, whether it's the founder or the CEO or something. But that person is oftentimes the one that's closing the big deals and building those relationships. And the nature of the deals change, right. So when you're first starting out your deals, our sales or a partnership where we can help sell a related product or service or something like that. But as the business grows, the deals now turned into well, we need to deal for our warehousing or whatever or our, our supply chain. So now you're making deals with those things. And the reality is, is as a founder, as a leader, as a CEO, whatever of your business, whether it's small or large, you're going to be making deals through outreach. And so you might as well just get comfortable right now. And it doesn't have to be a super intimidating thing. But you shouldn't ever think that doing outreach is below you. It's your business. That's because that's kind of what your job
Greg Marshall 9:11 was. And in a lot of ways too, coming from a sales background. It's similar to how a lot of people view sales, right? Like, I shouldn't have to sell my product because it's so good. Or they just don't they they almost disrespect the sales position in a way, right. I mean, I've had business owners actually telling me like, the most valuable people in organization are not sales, but that that message almost implies that salespeople are worthless or less than and I think that whole belief is just incorrect sales are just as important as every other part of the business. And, you know, in order to set selling should be your selling to help right yeah, at the end of the day, your product or service should really benefit the customer in some capacity. So why should? Why should there be a negative belief or perception of sales? When it comes to all you're really doing is helping people understand that there is help available?
Blake Beus 10:12 Right? Yeah. And the whole, like, the most important part of the business is this or this or this, I find that so crazy. It's all there. It's one, when I get in my truck in the morning, and I drive, there's a bunch of things that have to be in place, in order for my truck to get me to where I need to build. I can't go there anywhere. If I don't have tires. I also can't go anywhere if I don't have gas. Yep. So am I supposed to say, well, gas is the most important thing that you need for a
Greg Marshall 10:50 truck to work to see how far you go if you have gas, but I take the right wheel. Yeah,
Blake Beus 10:53 if I don't have one of my tires, right? It's, it's so weird. And as, as you know, a business owner, you need to be thinking about the system. Yes, right. And all of these systems, and you need to think about how these pieces need to work together and where those bottlenecks are. And I think that's a good segue to kind of go back to what we first started talking about is marketing plans. And I wanted to talk to you about that, because marketing plans is essentially creating a framework or a system for the marketing and sales of your product. So going back to that, what, assume I know nothing about marketing, what would you recommend? I do? Because I know it can be an overwhelming thing where you dump all this time and effort into it. And you get locked into this mindset and idea, and it doesn't work. Yep. Right. So there's clearly ways you can dump too much timing too locked into a way of thinking, or you can just willy nilly leave free, you know, just figure it out. And if it that also doesn't work. So yeah. So what do you need to know?
Greg Marshall 11:58 Well, number one, I think the biggest mistake that you can make, is to start at distribution. So you're so how you're going to distribute your message. The reason why I think that's a big mistake is because you don't, you haven't thought through enough of the who, who you want to get in front of. So I see business owners oftentimes go right into, I'm going to do Facebook, or Instagram or LinkedIn, or Tik Tok, or whatever, and he thinks or events. And you think, Well, where did you come up with that idea? And why that versus something else? And it's usually Well, I heard somewhere that this is great, or whatever. And all channels are great. It just they need to make sure you they have your customer. Yeah. So the first part and a marketing plan, I believe, that you should start off is creating the emotional message and trying to match that with the person you're going after. So an example would be your messaging, let's say you're going after moms. And you historically, after looking at your past customers, you notice most of it is moms, or dads or whoever.
Blake Beus 13:08 So there's some data behind Yeah, you're targeting? Yeah, so there's just guessing. Well, some data races for the person
Greg Marshall 13:14 who at least has a business already developed. They would use that data of who's already buying, why are they buying? What are their greatest pain points, their fears and desires, then you would do negative visualization. And think of all the reasons why they wouldn't buy so that you can do the polar opposite with your messaging, and develop a whole messaging plan first, what are we going to say? Why? How will we trigger them emotionally? How will we help them justify logically? And then once you have that, then you move into the distribution plan. Where do they spend these people? Where do they spend most of their time? And is that platform, a platform that I am able to distribute this message in the way that it needs to be distributed? To get a response? That's the first place I think you start is data messaging distribution. That's how I believe you should start a marketing start
Blake Beus 14:20 with your marketing plan. Okay, interesting. What if I'm brand spankin? New, I haven't sold a single one of my widgets yet. So I don't have past customer of data. Yep. How How would you recommend someone like that get started on developing their messaging. So
Greg Marshall 14:39 I recommend you come up with two to three broad audiences that you would test. Then you would start doing outreach and figuring out who responds, right. Once you figure out who responds. Then you go back to the data, the messaging distribution, yeah. And that's essentially what you want to do is you want Keep testing to figure out who responds to your message and why. And then do your own research so that people that are responding to your messages, ask them, what about this product or widget attracted you? Why didn't like it? What do you do for a living and you start figuring these things out, because if you dig deep enough, you will fit most businesses, I think, don't believe that the same type of person is buying their product. But when you start to dig in, you start to realize there's a lot of similarities to the people who keep responding to your message. And then you can really like hone in on that one segment, and make it better and better and better and speak more like clearly to that audience, and you'll get better response rates.
Blake Beus 15:45 Yeah. And I think it's good to note here is the similarities don't have to be split down with standard demographics, that's the easiest way for us, yes, to split up a population is, you know, men, women, age, location, ethnicity, things like that. And, yes, sometimes that's important. But sometimes what brings people together is none of those standard demographics. It's an idea or an interest in something or a passion about this, or that or whatever. And so it's easy to get locked into the simple demographics. But you got to dig a little deeper and do that. The other thing I would say is, if you're just starting out, you have not sold a single product whatsoever, you can take a few guesses. But then I would recommend reaching out and trying to get on the phone with a couple of people that you don't directly know. Yep, that are in that and just ask them. And the easiest way to do that is to say, on Facebook, or something like that, hey, I've got this product, it's I think it's best geared towards this demographic. Yep. Does anybody know someone who fits in that that would be willing to hop on a quick phone call with me for 1520 minutes. And I can ask them some questions. And specifically, look for someone you're not friends with or family with. Because there's an inherent bias there. Yeah, they can be as honest as they can think they're being as honest as possible. But the reality is, like, we want our friends to succeed, so go for it. But in order to actually succeed, you need to get some honest feedback about about those things. And that's a good way to, I mean, you could get some data, some meaningful actionable data, without spending a dime that way, and only putting two to three hours worth of work into that you can get some meaningful data that can then shift your efforts to say, Okay, here's who I'm targeting. Now, here's what their interests are, here's what their fears are, because I ask them those questions.
Greg Marshall 17:51 Well, I think it's a very, so a marketing plan should be extremely customer centric, right? Meaning it's not what you think they want to buy, or what you want to sell. But providing them what they give you, right, the feedback that they're actually giving you. So if they, they liked this product, because of XY and Z, and you want to sell your product because of not that you need to give in to the XY and Z because that's what they want. Right? Right. So for example, if you're selling a product, and everyone says, I like this product, because it's easy to use, it's lower cost. And it's very efficient. But you want to position the product as high end and different from everyone else. Well, I've seen businesses get so kind of like stubborn with I want to sell it this way. Even though the language that my customer who is paying me is saying this. They don't they keep pushing this marketing message. And what did they end up like, pounding their head against the wall? Because they're like, No, but I want it to, I want it to be this and it's like, but the customer, not just one customer. Many customers are saying this phrase. Yeah. Imagine if you use this phrase in your marketing, the response rate you get, yeah, and how much easier life was become. So this is a part to not be stubborn. When it comes to your messaging and branding, let the customer almost do that for you, not you.
Blake Beus 19:23 And if you do that life's a lot easier when you don't have to you don't have to spend a lot of time thinking about messaging, you're more going with the flow and the more you kind of let go and go with the flow of what your customers are saying and keep kind of gearing towards that they the actual people that are actually giving you actual dollars that you act actual bank account are the ones that are dictating your marketing message because it's actually working, as opposed to me trying to like paddle my canoe up river, because I want it to be positioned like this. Yep. And I think just just last week, I was speaking with someone who wanted to launch a podcast So as part of their marketing plan, and so they know that I do a podcast and so they're asking me some questions and, and I said, Well, okay, so what's, you know, what's your audience and things like that. And they, their audience are business owners, and they're typically busy, whatever. And so he said, I really want my podcast to be maybe maybe two, maybe three minutes long each episode, because I don't ever have enough time myself to listen to anything longer than that. And he said, Well, is that what your customers want? He's like, Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Have you asked any of them? And they have existing customers? And he's like, Well, no. And I said, Look, I typically podcasts that are most popular are between are between, you know, 20 minutes and 90 minutes or the three hours long, right. And I said, and that's that highly specific to industry. But there are almost no podcasts that are popular that people listen to that are only two to three minutes long each episode. So what you're doing is basically projecting the way you feel about podcasts onto your customers. And this person doesn't even listen to podcasts. Yeah. So I was like, and that's fine. You don't have to listen to podcasts to produce a podcast. But you don't know how people are consuming podcasts because you don't even like listening to podcasts yourself. Yeah. Right. And so I just had to be frank with him said, You need to just ask some people, what, what types of things would you be interested in? And how long are is when you listen to a podcast or something like that? How long is the podcast? And? And, you know, we'll we'll see, we'll see when he gets back to me on on what he's found out. But yeah,
Greg Marshall 21:41 and I think that's very valuable, because that also goes into the the mistake of assuming everyone consumes buys or behaves exactly like the business owner, right? Are you? And that's just simply not not true, right? I mean, you have to test and see what do customers look like? What do they respond to? You need to reach out to them? How can I make this better? What don't you like about this, so I can get rid of that. And it's a never ending, like, you really have to cater to your customer base, to give them the best experience if you want any chance of referrals, organic growth, and higher profit margins, because if you don't do that, it's gonna be churn and burn. Right? You might be able to get people to do stuff, but then they leave. They don't stick around. They don't tell anyone positive about you. It's all negative. So you're really like making this harder on yourself versus if you become the company or the brand that's known as we're going to take care of our customers by any means necessary. And their feedback means something. Right, right. That starts to travel on quicker than, No, we just do our way. And that's the only way, you know, and try to kind of pigeonhole that.
Blake Beus 22:54 Yeah, I remember very, very early on Netflix used to do this. This very simple survey strategy that I'm sure sure worked really, really well. And I was I was on Netflix, way back when they they didn't even really have a streaming offering. So I was a very early adopter on that. And they said, Ed, I had a two disc plan that anyway, but about every other month or so they would send me an email with three links in it. And a simple question it was, and the questions were sometimes like, how, how was the the quality of the DVDs? And the answers would be like, it was great. It was scratched or, but still played, or it was unplayable. And if I had one question in there, and three links, I would click and I could click on one of those links. And it would say, thanks for taking our survey. That was it. And they would log that data in the background. Very, very simple. But they could have also been things like, what new feature would you like to see next? This, this or this? And I would click on one of those links. Yep. survey done? No extended survey, no, nothing, but because they I was a customer of theirs. They already knew my contact info, they could track which link? I clicked. Yep. They could say, Okay, this demographic wants these features, this demographic wants these features. And it was a very simple survey tactic. But the thing is, is you don't need this massive infrastructure to do the exact same thing. You can do that exact same thing by just calling up a handful of people. 510 people don't have to be a huge, statistically significant audience. And just ask them, hey, what new features I do you use XYZ products that's maybe a competitor or something, what features do you wish they had? Okay? Then you go and make a product or a service that fits that gap. And you just let your customers dictate your next line of products or whatever.
Greg Marshall 24:49 Yeah, and I think you know, if you just want to make your life a whole lot easier, just listen to your customers and then adjust things as you go. And I think one of the challenges that sometimes It's hard, right? Is you personalize your business, you know, you put your blood sweat and tears into it. So when you're almost afraid to hear something negative, but if you can remove yourself from whatever they say, is not a reflection on me personally, it's just a reflection on the experience the service they're getting. And I can change that, then you'll be able to get much greater growth because I think there is a level of you don't want to hear anything bad, right? Or that's, why would I ask if there's problems, but that's every problem that I've ever run into with a customer. I've always been able to use that data to go, Okay, we need to get better at this, right? Or we need to prove it that and that's just quality feedback. And that if you care about providing a good service, or a product or whatever this is, you want that, right. You don't want to put stuff out there and, and secretly, everyone's like, I really wish we had this or that. Versus you knowing that they want it you can like delightfully give it right. Yeah. It's so much easier to sell something a product or service
Blake Beus 26:10 to someone when they've told you exactly what they want. And then you give them that exact thing. Yep. It's it's like it's it's like Christmas shopping. Yeah. Right. Like when someone says, Hey, I want a red Ryder BB gun to compass in the stock, and you get them that literal exact thing. They're happy. Yep. But if you're like, Well, you know, what if it's not a read writer, but it's this, this brand, and it doesn't have a compass in the stock, but it's got a scope on top, and you give it to them? And they're like, it's okay. Yeah, that's not what I want. But that's not what I really wanted. It's so much easier to have happy customers, when you just literally give them exactly what they want.
Greg Marshall 26:51 That's a great analogy, because it'd be the equivalent. I really want that, but you should, but you think I would really, if I was a kid, I would really love this right? And then you give them the place that they're like, I don't even like video games. Yeah. Now you've alienated? Yeah, exactly. Even
Blake Beus 27:08 if you've spent more money on it, and it's like a way cooler gift. If it's not what they want. They're not going to be happy.
Greg Marshall 27:15 Well, I think that's the perfect analogy. They're asking for stuff for Christmas all the time. Let's let's let's be a good Santa. Yeah. And give them what they want. They
Blake Beus 27:24 want. So yeah, well, I think now's a good place to kind of wrap that up. We kind of put that a nice little neat bow on that. Yeah, everybody. So Greg, how can how can people get in touch with you?
Greg Marshall 27:36 Greg Marshall Dotco. And you can book a free strategy session. And just Blake Beus TOCOM All right, so next time, we'll see you later. Okay, bye.
Friday Jan 13, 2023
Friday Jan 13, 2023
Blake Beus 0:00 q4 advertising like Black Friday just happened. Everybody's gearing up for q4. And you you were saying? You're getting asked a lot of questions about how to plan and prepare for the holiday season?
Greg Marshall 0:15 Well, you know, in a lot of ways we all of us adults never quite fully grow up. Now, let me explain to you how I remember in school when you had a paper and you knew that paper was going to be due months in advance, but then you wait to the last minute to do it. Similar to the advertising strategies, and q4. If you're trying to do it in q4, it's too late and too expensive. No. And I actually recommend if you're going to do you should be planning your q4 advertising. Now for next year, yeah, right. So I usually advise my clients, they should be investing the most money possible in the month of January to about June to July. And the reason why I advise that is because that's when ad costs are the lowest. And ad costs are the most expensive, and q4. So what you want to do is you want to invest heavy early on, build up a big email list text messages, customer base, retargeting audiences. And then when q4 comes, you can keep your ad spent either the same, or even drop it and invest more into sending out the texts and emails. That's how you'll get fantastic returns.
Blake Beus 1:28 Right? So and a lot of people don't don't think about this and don't think about what you're how our ad costs calculated. And so I always tell people, it's kind of like the stock market if you're bidding on on sets of eyeballs. Yep. Right. And so the more people that want those sets of eyeballs, the higher the cost is because you have to bid more. Yep. To get that attention. And so if you understand that concept, then you can plan based on seasonal thing. Yeah. But so yeah, you're you're saying spend more, put your dial in your strategy. Do all of that from July, with January, sorry, January to July ish. So you have everything down? Exactly. build your email list, because email, email marketing is cheap. Yeah, this is why it has such a high ROI. Yep.
Greg Marshall 2:17 And email, text message, all that stuff, drives the most repeat purchases the most sales and and you pay the lowest amount. And you have to look at as you're investing for q4 early on. Yeah. And if you wait too long, your list will be too small. Your retargeting audiences will be too small, and you won't be able to capitalize on q4. And this is when most people want to really make things happen. So I feel like investing heavy, January especially, is a good idea. So yeah, I personally think January investing in January is the most important simply because that's almost a hangover, all the spin of q4, everyone leaves the market. And so then this your CPMs your ad costs will go down. You're just not competing with as many people as you are, right now the month of November and this specially November, right? Because of Black Friday and Cyber Monday.
Blake Beus 3:23 So what do you like? Like, because the other thing I talked with people about? And I want to get your thoughts on this? Because I don't think we've talked about this specifically. But should should part of your planning process include what offers you're going to offer in q4, and then also in q1 next year or whatever. And yeah, what do you recommend people? How do you recommend people think about those offers? Everybody's looking for a deal on Friday? What like How should people structure
Greg Marshall 3:49 those? Well, I still think you should come up with your offers, and then that will actually drive who you want to advertise to anyways, right? Because you want to make sure you have the list of people that would be attracted to those offers. And then when you think about offers, you have to think like, you know, let's say you're in retail, right? Or you're you're you're selling clothing or products, physical products, you have to think like Okay, can I get shipments in on time? Yeah, to make sure I have enough volume and stuff to sell. What is seasonal? Like, what is popular during that time? What are people like, willing to spend more on or less on? What are your biggest profit margins and really think that through? Because if you do instead of a last minute trying to think of a deal, you never make your best decisions. Last minute, like thinking about, I need to hurry up, put some out there. Instead, think about the offers away in advance and just think, what is it that I if I had like I have a client right now. I did a great job over the summer of planning on getting the inventory that she needs now to sell to basically not prevent her from scaling it up. And she's out At this most you did $100,000 in sales with this product. And before we've kind of done that multiple months, multiple times in the past, but we couldn't because we didn't have the inventory. But we use this strategy of planning out our offer is going to be this product when Black Friday heads on Christmas heads. And we did all that over the summer. Right.
Blake Beus 5:23 And I think that's even more important now. Because ever since COVID, kind of hit we've had domino effects in lots of different areas in supply chain. Yep. Like getting products in and orders in and it hasn't been just COVID. It was. It's, it's been a bunch of things. But I mean, even even now I walk into Target. They're fully stocked here, Utah, except for there's some things they just don't have. Yep. And so yeah, that's that's a really good point to think about. What do you think about the people that do will do anybody? Does anybody ever come to you and say, hey, I want to want to run these ads, it's going to be a loss leader item, I don't even care if we lose money on this offer in q4. Is that a good strategy?
Greg Marshall 6:07 Well, I mean, it'd be a great strategy. Not too many people approached me with that idea, because most people are thinking more short term, which is usually the problem. But I think it'd be a great strategy, if you have a product that's very popular, that you could use as a loss leader to prepare you for the following year, where you have a huge customer base of people that you know, buy these types of products, and then you're able to market to them next year, make your profit. But like I said, I think it's a good strategy. But you do have to have a strategy during these times. The companies that crush it, are the ones that have a strategy way in advance of thinking of all the clients that are doing very, very well, this month, and most likely next month. We have talked about their offers, like like I'm recommending over the summer, right? Like, what are we going to do during these months to absolutely like, yeah, crush it. So if you're not doing that, start now. Like it's not too late to start for next year, even though that feels like a lot of years go by like that.
Blake Beus 7:08 Yeah. And I think like, I I struggle preparing and planning long term. Sure. Right. And so one of the tricks that I do is, is, when I whenever I think of I wish I would have done that for this year, I write that down. And then I scheduled an appointment for myself, a few months down the road when I need to, like address that. But But then I remember the things that that I should be doing. Yeah, I
Greg Marshall 7:36 think it's also important to think long term, you know, I'm constantly preaching that because long term will be more cost effective for you as well, because then you're not wasting money, which is a lot of advertisers fear, you're not misusing it in a way that you're getting the lowest amount of returns, or you're just not positioning your company in the way that is best. Right? So if you plan and think about long term, you'll save a whole bunch of money, and a whole bunch of stress because then you're not stressing. Yeah. And the fourth quarter with oh, man, I have to do this. But I don't know if I have the funds or I don't know if I have the list or I don't know if I have this right.
Blake Beus 8:13 Well, in total, the one thing I wanted to say in regards to the loss leader is if you don't have a plan to make the money back a loss leader is a bad idea. Yeah, like a really bad idea. And traditionally, Black Friday sales, I went Black Friday shopping, literally one time in my life, and I'm never doing it again. It was awful. But the companies that do the loss leader in it works is they know, I have this product that will get people in the store and then they'll buy other stuff where my profit margins are way higher, and it will work out. Yep. Whereas a lot of smaller advertisers, they think well, hey, Target and Walmart Costco are doing that. Yep, I should do that, too. Again, we talked about this all the time, there's different strategies for for different stages of business. Yep. And if you're a small business, and you're still working up your your, you know, strategy your offers and things like that, I think, I think something like a loss loss leader is a bad idea. Unless you have enough profit runway to make something like that work. You can do flash sale for a couple of days or something like that. But you you have to have that plan. And if you want to do a loss leader on Black Friday, or Cyber Monday or whatever, I would plan on then following up via email or something else with another great offer. That you could also have deeply discounted but since you're you're emailing it to people, instead of paying for ads, your margins are going to be significantly better. Oh, yeah.
Greg Marshall 9:44 And I think it would do you it will do good to just start today, obsessing about repeat purchases. How do I get people to buy more often and more stuff? Because that's where other money is made, it's not on that first sale. Anyone who's trying to make profits just on like one sale one offer only, you're gonna have a very difficult time. Because at cost just, you know, you just do the math, it's just not going to work out. You have to have a game plan on how can I sell these people over and over and over again, think about like, Starbucks people go there every day, right? And so what's the lifetime value of that customer? Who knows they're spending $10 per day $70 to 80 a month, that's 3360 a year 10 years? That's $33,000. That person just spent just on coffee, right? And maybe you acquire it for 250 bucks. It's a fantastic investment. Yeah. If you think that way, how do I just keep getting people to, to do repeat purchases, that's how you're going to make your money, it's not going to be off of one offs, like, Hey, I have a cool deal. Sell this. And let me just try to sell this, you got to have a plan. And you have to be thinking of structuring your business to like, I know a lot of I've heard podcasts is and I agree. If you only have one product or offer, you don't have a business, you just have an offer of businesses, can they buy more and more stuff from you? Over and over again? Yeah, that's, that's, in my opinion, what you should be focused on. So become obsessed with repeat purchase,
Blake Beus 11:20 right? And keep in mind, like if this is your business, you get to make your own rules, you can create new products all the time. Yep. If you're, if you're an E commerce company, that doesn't mean you always have to only sell physical items, you could maybe make an offer for some sort of a digital item, or it doesn't mean that all of your items need to be custom, maybe you make, maybe you find a way to bundle your items with something that's high value, but low effort for you, like I don't know, um, stickers, right, or maybe a digital add on for free that that they get with their purchase or something like that. There's lots of different ways to think about it. I was talking with a guy here locally that he has a CNC machine, right, so we can load up things and haven't carved stuff out. And he's done some really cool stuff, some some relief, 3d Relief maps and stuff like that. But he found this way, he can make these kind of ski signs and he can customize them. And he developed a system to do it very quickly, without a lot of effort on his part, the CNC machine does most of the work and the the materials are pretty low, low cost. And even though he does these really big expensive things he can sell these for for relatively cheap, making for people make them really quick and they're low, low effort, but high value for people because people love love having them in their in their home and everything. Get creative is what I'm getting, because this guy has traditionally done metal prints of his own photography on creative works, which is a lot of effort, but he does well at it. But he found a way to use us to use a similar, you know, creative outlet to make this thing that is low cost, low effort. high margin. Yeah, for him. Yep. And always keep looking for those kinds of things.
Greg Marshall 13:18 Right, I think. And higher margins, obviously always help when you're doing advertising. And I was just thinking of a client and we should definitely do an episode on the benefits of high ticket when you're doing paid traffic. But this gentleman, I won't say the exact product. But he had a very high price product that he intentionally price it that way to knock it down during this time of the year. Okay. And it's a nice product see? It? It did awesome. Bunch of people bought a very expensive product directly from ads, just because it was knocked off at 50%, which was part of the strategy from the get go.
Blake Beus 14:02 Right? So he's showing these ads for people at the regular price. Yep. And then come this time of year 50% off so all the people that didn't buy Yep. are like oh man that I've been seeing it for this price. And I know this is actually a good deal.
Greg Marshall 14:17 Yep. Yeah, so basically prep them right all year, prep them to see this price point. Then Black Friday came and we cut it in half. Yeah. And the conversion rate was like, yeah, like everyone, like as soon as they saw they're just buying it because they just do it's like anything else. It's like someone said I have a 2023 Ferrari on sale for $22,000. You better believe that definitely is gonna sell out like this, right? Because it's perceived value is really high. So you knocked the price down really low for a limited time. You're gonna get a lot of action,
Blake Beus 14:50 but you got to know your numbers. You've got to know your margins. You've got to have a plan
Greg Marshall 14:54 and he also did it to where the profit margin even at 50% off was massive. Yeah. So it was still a huge problem
Blake Beus 15:03 and you in you can definitely do that if you have a plan and you think it through. So anyway, let's wrap this one up. Yeah, right here. Greg, how can people get in touch with you?
Greg Marshall 15:12 Greg marshall.co. You can go ahead and book a free strategy session call everybody,
Blake Beus 15:16 just Blake beus.com.
Greg Marshall 15:18 All right, so next time see you later. Bye.
Tuesday Jan 10, 2023
Tuesday Jan 10, 2023
Blake Beus 0:00 book a call funnels. You said you want to talk about that. But you didn't want to tell me before the phone before we turned the podcast? Yes. What? What? What about book or call funnels? We want to talk about Yeah, I
Greg Marshall 0:10 didn't want to forget, because Because fresh off my mind, I was just talking with a client. And I was like we I feel like we always talk about, there's always like value before we hit the record button. We probably share that too. Yeah, so with the book a call funnel, essentially, if you're in the service industry, and you're trying to get more sales, right? You're gonna have people book a call. Now, the question I always get asked, and what I recommend, is, Well, should I just put a phone number on my ad? And I typically say no. Because if you have, because you're making yourself subject to having the customer call you, which is the last place you want to be in the sales process. Instead, I recommend, of course, you can have the phone number available, but I wouldn't make that your number one objective, I actually would make the objective, have them fill out a form name, phone number email, so that you can control the sales process so that you actually have their lead information. And you can reach out to them versus hoping that they call you or let's say they click your call button, and no one answers. Well, there you go. You lost them, right? Like there's no other I mean, you can't follow a retargeting. But to me, the best for retargeting is having their actual phone number and email to reach out to them. And so with the book a call funnel, there's several things that are important when it comes to this. So I was speaking with a client and I was explaining how the assumption is, you run an ad and the ad kind of does all the work for you. Yeah. And then they buy, but it's actually not, there's actually several steps to measure. And this is how you know, the journey of your success to your book, a call funnel is working. So number one, you have to obviously, and these might seem like not important, but they're extremely important. Okay. All right. Number one is, first, you have to get people to actually click your ad. Right? Yeah. So so if you're getting people to click your ad, that's step one of success, right? And I recommend you break it down in stages. Step two, is, once they click your ad, can you get them to fill out a form? Okay, so until then, if you're getting people to click your app and not filling out your form, work on getting the form better, right? Step three would be once they fill out the form, can I get them to respond in any way back to me via email or text? Right? Okay, that's step three, then you go step four, which is, and to me, this is the most important part of the process is step four. Getting them from responding back to actually on the phone. Yeah, that is the most important part of the process. Because everything else you can fine tune. But if you cannot get them on the phone, nothing's gonna happen. Right. And so that's, that's the next success. And then obviously, the next stage would be get them on the phone, have your sales process. And then after your sales process, what are you trying to move them to next? So a true book a call funnel? Although it seems like it's just add to book a call is a lot more steps than just that. What are your thoughts? I
Blake Beus 3:31 think you covered it we're good.
With with any sort of a sales process, so many people, and I'm guilty of this, too, we take too big of logical leaps, right? We think our customer is going to do this, and then they're going to enter, they're going to book the call. Yep. There's it the smaller the incremental steps you can make it, the easier it is. And see, I would me personally, I would recommend, most people, if you're paying for ad traffic, don't put the phone number there anywhere until after you've already collected their information. And which is pretty similar to what what you said, I think we're very much aligned on that. But and the reasoning is, is because, well, we were talking about this in a different way right before this is and then I'm gonna get nerdy but asynchronous communication. The whole point of running something like an ad is you want to basically multiply your effectiveness and your capabilities. I'm a human and I only have 24 hours in a day and I have to sleep for some of those hours and I have to eat for some of those hours and and I want to spend time with my family for some of those hours and do something outside of work for some of those hours. And if I am pushing people to a book a book of you know, call and my phone number is on there, I have to be available or else the ad fails. Yep.
Greg Marshall 5:00 And that's a great point, I didn't even I forgot to bring that. And so
Blake Beus 5:04 and so you what you really need to do is find a way to work in parallel, you're building some systems to basically increase your effectiveness and multiply your ability to do stuff without you having to actually do the stuff there. Yep. And so if you have that phone number there, you have to always be available. And not only that your mental energy is always going to be there is I got, I got a family dinner, well, I got I need to make a phone call comes out, it might be that $10,000 Deal. Yep. And that's just simply not worth the mental drain, your life should be getting easier not by running good systems, not harder by running systems. And so really, you want to collect their information, and then give them an option to pick a time during work hours for a phone call or something, you can use Calendly, there's lots of other options out there, you could have a custom built system, you could even just have them on the second step of the form, after they filled out their name, phone number and email address on the second step of the form. Just it could be as simple as selecting what day and what time works best to give you a call. And you limit that to hours of that, you know, you're already available. It doesn't have to be a sophisticated system. But you just say what times are good for you maybe even just write a little message, if you don't want to hook in complicated systems where they could just say, Hey, I'm available Tuesdays from this time to this time, and then you just call them on that time. And you know, in advance, you can kind of schedule around that. But yeah, the other problem with having a phone number in there is now your ads are basically ineffective during certain times of the day when you know you're asleep at night, or yeah, whatever. So now you're thinking, Okay, do I shut my ads off during those hours? Or should I leave them on? If I shut them off, we start to lose, you know, algorithm effectiveness if you really need those ads to work all the time. Yep. And so the phone number is just is not great. I've even tested this with some of my clients that had some high ticket kind of monthly offers. It was it was a subscription service that started at $1,000 a month for E commerce businesses. And it went up to five $6,000 A month or whatever. And they would have phone numbers, they had phone numbers on their site, phone numbers in their sales process, everything we tested ads to phone numbers. The reality is most people just don't want to call if they're looking for a solution. They don't want to call right now they're usually have five minutes before their next meeting or something if their business owner or whatever. And, and it asking them to fill out a form with name, phone number and email is is a big enough ask already in the app takes 20 seconds, asking them to call right now and dedicate who knows how much time to this phone call is is a hard pitch.
Greg Marshall 7:52 And I think you know you speak about time. I think the biggest thing when it comes to time is when you're asking them to do a phone call. Because this is a common misstep I think people make or salespeople make excuses is they do not they? They say hey, when do you have time to book a call or to get on a quick phone call? Versus giving them a specific, very short amount of time as a small tycoon. So like, Hey, do you have two minutes or three minutes or five minutes to just hop on a quick call? So that they can see like, oh, yeah, five minutes? Yeah. If you say do you have time for a call? In my opinion? The assumption is, oh, this might be a long call. Yeah. Right. Like when people say can we do a call typically calls at least 1520 30 minutes?
Blake Beus 8:39 Yeah. Yeah. And that that's a really good point, you could remove the mystery of what the call is like, even when they're selecting a time or whatever want to one of my favorite things. I heard years and years and years ago, I I mean, I don't think this works all the time. But when it was the this person was giving advice on how to connect with other people that were busy or whatever, and how to stand out. I think it was on a podcast about productivity or some something like that. But they basically said, if you're reaching out to someone, and you want to connect with them, and you don't know them very well, or maybe you don't know them at all. But you know, they're a busy person. Ask them if they have some kind of a non typical timeframe to make a call. So for example, do you have 11 minutes for a quick phone call? Yep. Right? Or do you have seven minutes for a phone call? Not 10, not 15? Not 20 or 23 or whatever, whatever you think is appropriate? The reason is, is it stands out. It gives a time timeframe for them to think, Well yeah, I could do two minutes, three minutes, seven minutes, whatever. And I think that's helpful. I think the other thing you could do is you could detail out in the seven minutes, or 10 minutes or whatever it is. We're going to do this, this and this. And then I can go back with the information you've given me and work up A quote or whatever is appropriate in your sales pipeline. But you can say I need these things, these pieces of data, and then we'll work up a quote, and I'll get back
Greg Marshall 10:09 to you on it. But I think that's super important. And I do think that works is because it kind of breaks the rhythm as far as you say, three minutes, 11 minutes 13 pattern interrupt, we're gonna kind of like, wonder, has someone asked me if I have 13 minute? I think I got 30 minutes. You know,
Blake Beus 10:25 I don't have 15, though. Yep.
Greg Marshall 10:29 So I do think but a lot of it's just like, you know, I would use this in sales strange where I say, you know, one of the worst questions, I think you could ask when you're, if you work, like, let's say, in a sneaker place in the mall, right? Do you need help with anything? No, I'm just looking. That's like an automatic response that says, I say that all the time. If you if you ask twice. Or even more specific, you'll get a different answer. Hey, looking for something. Now I've just taken a look. Is there anything specific that you're looking for? You most likely will get an answer because you broke the pattern of not just looking? Well, actually, that works
Blake Beus 11:05 on me all the time. Yeah. Meeting all the time. That's my, my automatic response without even thinking about it, even if I am looking for something specific is no, I'm just looking. And if they follow up with a second question, is there something specific you're looking for? I almost always answer with what I'm looking for. Like,
Greg Marshall 11:22 yeah, I'm looking for the new Apple Computer. I just came out yesterday. And it's like amazing how specific you can get right like, for me, like if I want to see this? Yeah, I'm looking for the size 10. New Ken Griffey sneakers. Like yeah,
Blake Beus 11:35 that's such I did that exact same thing. When I went to an office supply stores looking for some colored stickers, circular, nothing fancy. I walk in there. And then I say, Can I help you with anything? We looking for anything? And I'm like, No, I'm fine. I'll just look around. And then I spent 10 minutes looking for the stupid.
Greg Marshall 11:49 If he just followed up, he or she, you could have literally gotten the hell that you want it. So I had to
Blake Beus 11:55 walk up in shame and say, I can't find this. Yes. Can you tell me what
Greg Marshall 11:59 you should ask? First, you should ask me a follow up question. So I think the importance of a timeframe, specific questions, breaking pattern, you know, pattern, interrupt, those are all keys to making a book a call funnel work. Because if you don't do that, you're not going to get people on the phone, people are going to avoid the phone call, because they're going to feel like it's going to take too much time or the sales pitch, right? That pretty much everyone knows getting on the phone means I'm going to be sold to, but if people don't mind being sold to for five minutes versus an hour. So if you make the timeframe really small, then they're not, they're not going to feel like they're being hooked into what's the timeshare sales pitch where you have to take your whole day basically, for a salesperson that's like, does anyone really want to spend their whole day getting sold, you know, so that's what people are really trying to avoid is essentially wasting their their hour or time because it's the most valuable asset to most people with a sales pitch. So if you can shorten up the duration, they'll feel a lot better about moving forward and getting on the phone call. And almost every time someone says I only have a few minutes, they if you do a good enough job, they always have unlimited time to be on the phone and talk about solving a problem that they have. Because at the end of the day, that's why they're on the phone, they have a problem that needs to be solved.
Blake Beus 13:23 And if your sales pitch I mean look a hard sales pitch works. That's why people do them. I don't like I hate if I'm ever in if I'm ever in a hard sales pitch situation, I instantly am trying to get out of there as fast as I can. However, if your sales process is very much a conversation, and we're on the same team, we're trying to see if we're a good fit for one another to help you with your specific problems. And if you're honest about that and saying you know what we we are a great fit or I don't think we're the perfect fit but here's a couple of things I would look at which I know you do with with some of the people that reach out to you to be to be clients with you there have been times you've told me that that you've you've said look I could take your money but we're just not a great fit because you're not to this level just yet so you would be better off instead of paying me to do this and this put some money in ads so you understand the process better and dial in your sales process better and this and this instead of giving me money you'd be better off to do that yourself for a little bit and feel free to reach back out to me in a couple of months of doing that and we can have another you know book another free 30 minute call to just chat about whatever see how things are going you're very much helpful to them as opposed to trying to get them to make a solid commitment and by now is
Greg Marshall 14:40 by now I forget everything right forget
Blake Beus 14:43 so but yeah use I mean your main process. Your main sales process for your getting your clients is basically a book a call funnel in lots of different ways through social media, organic stuff, or through ads or whatever. You use this all the time, and I've
Greg Marshall 14:56 been using Bucha call funnels for probably 10 years. Be honest, because like previous to my marketing business, I was in the gym and fitness space, and people wanted to book a call to come check out the workouts or the gym facilities. And so I'm very experienced in the kind of book a call funnel. And what you need to do, and these are just, I'm just sharing the things that have worked consistently, for 10 years, that will get you from someone on the internet, to getting them on the phone call and turning a stranger to a customer, which is the goal, right? And I've never gone as in depth with this actual way of doing it. Because I sometimes assume that everyone knows that's how it works. But when I talk to customers that are trying to book calls, I noticed that there's a big gap. And like, kind of like you said, the ask that they're doing is too far, like you want to get married today. That's too much of an ask when no one knows who you are, it's more, do something smaller, you kind of work your way up. And that's kind of the same thing that you really should be thinking about when you're going to book a call Funnels is how do I develop the relationship? And how do I remove the fear of being sold to for too long, for something that I don't want to be in and like you and I and probably most people, we don't love high pressure sales pitches, it doesn't it's not a fun environment to be in. So people that's the core objection is like, I really don't want to hop on a call and get told why I'm making the biggest mistake of my life by not buying your product right now. Yeah, right. I mean, because I hate having to tell someone. Yeah, I just right now, it's not the right. Well, I thought you were serious about doing this or doing a lie. Now here,
Blake Beus 16:42 I have been known to literally just stop talking and walk off. Like,
Greg Marshall 16:46 I've done that, too.
Blake Beus 16:48 I just can't. Yeah, but so yeah, so So quick question. I know, we wanted to wrap this up, kind of kind of, we're gonna make this one a little bit shorter today. Say someone has a book a call funnel? And it's not working? Yep. What are some things that you would recommend they look at and do to try to diagnose and fix it?
Greg Marshall 17:09 So a couple of things. So this is good question number one go into? Are you getting people to fill out the form if not fix the form. But typically, people are not getting them on the phone. That's why I said that's the most important stage. So I would actually look and go, What are you saying? Or how are you following up once you get the lead? Nine times out of 10? People follow up with Hey, do you have time to do a quick call, they're not building the relationship and having a conversation before getting them on the call. That's, I can almost, I don't want to guarantee but high probability. Anyone who says booking and call funnels don't work for me. It's that stage right there. It's yeah, I get these leads, but they never respond or whatever. It's because they're not. They haven't fine tuned what to say, between form fill out and getting on the phone. Right? And so that's the number one place I will look at. If they're not getting for Philips, then it's through traditional Well, what's your ad saying? targeting the right person. But most people have that part down. It's it's the book getting them on the phone.
Blake Beus 18:17 It's like that transition from the cloud. Yep. to the real world. Yep, is a bit of a disconnect. Because people I do this to I feel like I can understand the cloud, I understand the real world. But like Bridging the Gap sometimes is a little bit hard. I just had a thought based on kind of what we were talking about before this. I have seen people do this, I don't see very many people doing this. But I've seen people do this with the right kind of offer is once they get the lead and everything and then they reach back out to try to schedule the time. I've seen people actually record a little video using a service, the one I was telling you about is one called Jump share which favorite serve. It's a it's a time saver. You could record a little video and say, Hey, I just made you. I wanted to introduce myself, so you get to know me just a little bit better. So here's some things about me my background, I don't know much about you and your business yet because you just barely fill out the form. But here's a quick little video and then you can dump that link into the into that and it could be a 32nd video introducing yourself. The one thing I've realized, and this is one thing I love about this podcast is and why we do this podcast is the single best way to build trust with potential potential customers or just people out there is video or audio. They get to know your tone of voice. They get to understand you they get to feel like they really do know you. Yep, as opposed to just an email or whatever.
Greg Marshall 19:39 Yep. Well, I agree. And I think I utilize that as part of my strategy. Thanks to Blake. You know, bringing me on to different software's that really help and because it's it really at the end of the day, it's all about building the trust and building relationship with the customer so that they feel comfortable to even talk to you. Right. So that's the key. Yep.
Blake Beus 20:00 Alright let's wrap it up well how do they people how do people get a hold of you just go to Blake beus.com and you can reach out to me there
Greg Marshall 20:07 and if you want to get in touch with me Greg Marshall Dotco and you can book a free strategy session call all right
Blake Beus 20:13 we'll catch you guys later bye
Wednesday Dec 21, 2022
Wednesday Dec 21, 2022
Blake Beus 0:00 Google Analytics. So I've been getting a ton of emails about me to the changes on this. And I've actually converted a few sites already, from Universal Analytics to GA for Yep. is what they're calling it. But you had some questions about that.
Greg Marshall 0:14 Yeah. So actually, I had a client asked me about it last week. And I said, I'm not really the professional and this particular aspect. So I knew I wanted to ask you. So I'm going to literally ask you, because I don't even know what the differences are between, you know, the Google Analytics, and then g4. Yeah. So what is the main difference? Why, why is this shift happening?
Blake Beus 0:39 Because Google sets up
Greg Marshall 0:42 the Google gods. Google said,
Blake Beus 0:44 so I mean, every This is, I mean, it's called G a four. So this is the fourth iteration of Google Analytics. And Google Analytics first came out in probably the late 90s, early 2000s. And so in that time, we've we've had four iterations. And this is the fourth one. As far as why Google decided the way they were doing analytics needed to change. And so they
Greg Marshall 1:11 think this has anything to do with privacy.
Blake Beus 1:13 I mean, probably, it probably, I mean, you're seeing a lot more things. So the initial way back when Google Analytics use relied heavily on third party cookies, right, and as new privacy standards, get updated, and things third party cookies aren't a thing. So the last version of Google Analytics, which was I believe, they called it Universal Analytics, relied on first party cookies. And essentially, I mean, for most people, third party first party doesn't really matter, most users, but essentially, first party cookies mean that Google Analytics is installed on my site. And when I set a cookie, which stores some information about my session, that cookie is stored based on a domain name. So it would be that Google Analytics cookie would be stored based on my Blake beus.com domain. And as I browse to other sites, those sites don't have permission to read that cookie. Whereas third party cookies, Google would set those cookies based on the google.com domain, and then as a third party cookie, and then as you browse around, all the other websites would be able to see the data stored, or at least some of the data stored in that cookie. That's a very big generalization. But we're starting to see, we've talked about this too, we're starting to see cookieless the future right? Oh, cookies go away. And again, we're moving to a different type of technology that that offers more privacy and offers better isolation of data. Yep. You know, probably, you'll probably see more data being stored in an in an encrypted state, on your computer instead of just in a plain text state. Yep. And this is this is I haven't read their specific why. But if I were to guess these are all the things that you're starting to see.
Greg Marshall 3:05 Got it. So essentially, for a business owner, what is it I know, I've gotten those emails? What do they basically need to do in order to switch over? Does it automatically happen? Or do they need to go through a step by step process? Yeah,
Greg Marshall 5:01 Got it? So are there any, I guess, new features that that are of benefit to a website owner or business owner? Or is it kind of pretty much the same? Just a different kind of layout or format?
Blake Beus 5:15 Yeah. So, um, I mean, if you go read their documentation on it, or their introduction on it, they're pitching all sorts of great new things. And honestly, I read through a lot of those, and it's just more of the same, okay. But you always got to put a positive spin on it, because because you're forcing hundreds of millions of people to change. Right? That's, it's a, it's a big change. of the people that I've worked with that are actively using GA for most of them don't like it. Really? Yeah, that and why is that? Well, first and foremost, the Well, first, you always have a learning curve. Okay. So the dashboard for GA four looks significantly different than the dashboard for the Universal Analytics. So it's a new dashboard. Okay. Second is an I agree with this. I mean, I like learning new things. But I agree with this part. They don't make it really very easy to say, what's the traffic look like on this page? Yep. You would think that that's in the old dashboard. And the old way of things that was, you would obviously, you looked at that all the time, you would just go say, hey, what's the look? What's the traffic, like on this page? And with this new version, they have it split up into different concepts that essentially talk about you know, we had this before, but But you have acquisition, you have different channels and things like that. But if I just want to look at what's a page doing, it's not easy. Yes,
Greg Marshall 6:52 you can still do it. But it kind of takes some work. It's really hard.
Blake Beus 6:55 It's like, they don't want you to do that. For some reason. I don't know. I don't know. It could just be that could be something that changes. Yeah. But again, most of the people that I've done conversions for they they needed the conversion, but they don't like what they're seeing. And, and and it's complicated to set up the reports and things got that that they used to, which has led to conversations with several people saying, what else is out there? Yeah, Google Analytics can't be the only analytics platform out there. What else is out there? So I've had some of those conversations,
Greg Marshall 7:29 which if you think about it, I don't know, I'm sure Google's done the you know, the benefits pros and cons. Because if you're gonna get a bunch of people feeling like it's too complex, or you're not getting the information that you want, it is gonna raise a question. Well, I've always used Google Analytics, but it's getting too complicated. So maybe I'll go use something else. And so they could lose, they could a lot of their data and our customers when it comes to that. So they
Blake Beus 7:56 really could and I mean, Google is a smart company, but also they're a big companies with lots of people making decisions. And when you have a big organization like that, it's completely feasible to make some decisions that impact a lot of people that are just not great decisions. That happens.
Greg Marshall 8:13 Well, what do you think about? What's a secondary option? Let's say someone doesn't feel like he's in GA for? Yeah, what could you use.
Blake Beus 8:23 So what I would recommend people do if you have a more complicated kind of setup, or whatever, I would look at some other options. But the first thing I would do is, because Google owns search engines backwards and forwards, Google is the biggest search engine out there. And if you find GA for too complicated, all I would do is I would put, I would create an account. And I would put the simple, simple tag on your site. And maybe don't even look at the dashboard at all, but putting it on your site, we'll help you rank better, because Google's going to know more about what's happening on your site, and, and all of those things. So I would put that on there. Even if even if you want to show up and be represented in Google Search, having that on there is going to help with them. Even if you don't look at that. So if you want to look at other solutions, other free solutions, you're limited gotta there's not as many free solutions out there. And oftentimes, the free solutions are going to require a little bit more technical setup. But I mean, let's take a step back and say why Google offers it for free. They offer it for free because it benefits them in their ad play or on their search engine. Yeah, out of the goodness, no, no, they're not doing it out of the goodness of their heart. They're doing it because it benefits their company. That's why it's free. It's it's actually kind of crazy that Google Analytics is free if it were a standalone product by some company. Yep. It's so complex and so many moving pieces and is updated so much and it would be absolutely insane for it to be free. You have to reason that they offer it for free is because of their ads platform and all these other things. So some free some free options out there. If you're looking at free options, if you have a high traffic website, I'm talking, you know, 500,000 page views a month, or viewer, or a high traffic would be that or more, you're going to probably end up paying because a free tier is not going to work for you. But if you have, say 500,000 or less, you can find some free options out there, right, because a lot of the other analytics companies will have a model where they want you to use it for free. But once you start using it to a point where you're making some money, they need to make some money because they gotta pay engineers, and all of these things to like, maintain it. And then there's some open source solutions out there. And open source solutions are oftentimes free with maybe a paid support tier or something like that. So one that I really like is one called post hog, that's an open source one they have, if you are a technical person, you can actually install it on your own server. So you can have your own analytics server, and your own code snippet that you can put on your sites, to look at how everything works there. And that would be free for you to do if you know how how to do. If you don't know how to do that, you can that you can use their hosted service, which is free up to I think it's like 500,000 pageviews, well, they call it 500,000 events is what they do. So a single page view is an event. But also if you're you can set it up to track button clicks nine. So every button clicked, every one of those would be an event. So a single person could have multiple events on a page view or a session or whatever. That's a really interesting one, it's a much simpler ad platform. But I I think most people would find that the the information in there is quite a bit more valuable. Got it. Because it's more consumable for a regular, regular regular user, I find it more consumable for me. Yep. And I find the data on that a much more actionable data because it's, it's simpler, and it's not superduper hard to set up, say like a simple funnel, and get a Funnel Report and things like that. But then you have some other platforms that are more geared towards enterprise users you have segment is one mix panel is another one, this is gonna cost you, you have Oh man, I'm I can see their logo, but I can't think in the name. Anyway, there's a bunch out there, you can just do a Google search for, you know, Google Analytics alternatives, and you'll find a list of them. And most of them are going to be paid. I think a lot of the paid ones start at 30 bucks a month. So it's not the end of the world. But they get more expensive. If you have more traffic, a large volume of traffic got it. But a lot of them will do extra things to they'll give you a heat map. So you can see where people are scrolling through on the page where their finger is pointing or things like that. So there's there's a lot of things a lot out there you can do above and beyond just what Google Analytics stuff got.
Greg Marshall 13:12 So I know we got to keep today's short. Yeah. Is there anything that were that were missing as far as the analytics? And what to look out for what not to do? Or any and maybe any pitfalls that people may run into? Anything like that?
Blake Beus 13:29 Yeah. So I mean, I think the biggest pitfall would be ignoring the fact that you need to convert the new, they're going to have a hard cut off. And you'll, if you rely on ads, Google ads specifically, or traffic from google.com, if you don't convert over, you're going to you're going to start seeing it to the quality of data, the quality of that traffic go down over time. So definitely convert over. Okay, if you do have a complicated install, and it's Phil's overwhelming to convert over, just literally copy and paste the code snippet on your site right now run them in parallel, and reevaluate if you actually needed that complicated of an install, got it, if you actually needed all of those custom events, and if you actually needed all of those custom reports, and actually needed those things, because most people over time, I mean, the old version of analytics has been out for over 10 years. So over time, you get all of these things. Yeah. And you're thinking, oh, man, we have all of this stuff. Now's the time for a little bit of housecleaning, yeah. Maybe starts from scratch and say, What do I actually need? And most likely, you only actually need one or two of those reports. One or two of those custom reports or custom events, covers probably 95% of the value you are getting out of the old thing. So I would use it as an opportunity to do some housecleaning and get that you know, getting that set up. And then remember over time, you can add more reports. It's not like you're not missing out right Now this minute, if you don't have all of the reports, and you have a gap in some of these reports, those things aren't going to impact your, your business dashboard much. Sure. So
Greg Marshall 15:11 So basically, in a nutshell, if you're not using it or haven't set it up yet, run them in parallel now, so that when the cut off period happens, you don't lose your building. You're building up some data. And I think that seems to me that's, that makes the most sense as far as what to do next. Because like you, I've been getting those email, Hey, this is going away. So I was like, Well, what exactly do they want us to do? So I wanted to pick your brain and see what should everyone do to keep their websites up to date? And so yeah, so that being said,
Blake Beus 15:42 I actually have one other smellies of advice real quick. The other thing I think you should do, you should take this as an opportunity to set up Google's tools. They're called tools for webmasters. Okay. And it's, it's an old school tool. Yep, I heard they still use it all the time. But basically, what it does is it monitors your site over time, and will email you alerts if it detects some sort of a problem, okay, for example, it will kind of get a baseline of your site, if your site normally takes two seconds to load. And then all of a sudden, next week is taken 10 seconds to load, they'll shoot you an email and say, Hey, we've noticed a couple of problems. And then you can go in there and fix and fix those problems. We have, oh, you know what, someone, someone changed our picture. And now and they didn't scale the picture down. So now they're trying to load a 10 megapixel picture on our homepage, and it slowed it down. Or it will alert you if you have a huge increase of like missing page errors or things like that. And then you can go in there and fix those, taking the time, once a month, or once every few months to kind of fix those things, helps. It's like a dental checkup for your your search engine results. It just kind of keeps everything good, fresh, make sure still in line with what Google search is expecting and with Google ads is expecting and all of those things. So I would take this as a chance to use this other tool, set it up set up a super easy, it's it's literally you just have to confirm ownership of the domain. And then it doesn't if you have Google Analytics already installed, you don't have to install any other code or anything. You just need to confirm I own this website. And you need to show me you know, monitor it for me and send me email alerts if there's Scott that's going on.
Greg Marshall 17:22 So tools for webmasters. Well, I think, and is there anything else? So we've got? I know in a mess, his name walltime, GA for GA for tools for webmasters. And then if you want to look at other alternatives, do a Google search. Yeah, there's lots of them out there, try them out for Google Analytics. And then is there anything else? Are we missing? Those three key points, I think are the main things that the email or the store owners or website owners need? Pretty much. Yeah. And then what if they need help installing this, can they reach out to you,
Blake Beus 18:00 you can reach out to me just go to Blake beus.com. And I have a way for you to contact me on that site. And we can have a quick conversation about that. And I mean, a lot of this stuff isn't super hard. If you really if you really need to, and I don't have availability or whatever. You can actually hop on, say Upwork or places like that. There are experts if you've never used up work have used Upwork before,
Greg Marshall 18:26 I think once like five or six years ago, so I mean,
Blake Beus 18:29 I have a profile on there. I don't I don't do any do much with it. But from time to time. If I want to pick up an extra job or answer client or something I'll hop in there and, and whatever. But you can find an expert in there that has good reviews that has experienced with GA for interview them make sure they actually know what they're talking about. Get a Quote for most of them will will quote you an hourly rate to do a conversion. But for someone who's an expert, it shouldn't take too terribly long to get you converted over it would probably be three to five billable hours tops. Got it? I would say unless it's a really complicated install. But yeah, so that's another way to get it done, even if you're not a technical person.
Greg Marshall 19:11 Got it. So yeah, so if you need to contact Blake, go ahead and visit his website. And it's Blake beus.com. And then if you want a free marketing strategy session, you can go to Greg marshall.co. And fill out the form and we'll reach out so until next time, we'll we'll see you later okay, bye
Wednesday Dec 14, 2022
Wednesday Dec 14, 2022
Blake Beus 0:00 So I don't even know what we're talking about today. You wouldn't even talk with me about it before we started. Yeah, that's
Greg Marshall 0:05 because that's because I wanted to make sure we didn't miss out on some of the Golden topics. So, today I had mentioned to you just last week, and in fact, it might already be active, because in a couple ad accounts yesterday, I saw, so Google has decided to remove on Youtube Keyword targeting, over asking me yeah, all really are content targeting. So you can't you can't do placements, keywords or topics for conversion campaigns. What's just weird? Yeah, they just removed that. So like everyone, and like, the Google ads, YouTube faces like, This is unbelievable. Like, how are you supposed to actually target if you can't target the content, you know, contextual targeting? And I thought, well, that's interesting. I wonder why they would do that. I have a couple of guesses. I mean, my guess would be probably that, if they're trying to increase revenue, and you take away like, high performing, you know, campaigns, then you have to spend more to get the same result. Right. And so that's my guess, I mean, and it's probably accurate. And so yeah, there's no incentive for, if you think about it, if you own that business, there's no incentive and having campaigns where you could get like, $2 conversions, because then you never spend more, right, you know, your budgets really low. But if you have to spend to get, you know, $100, get a conversion, then you have to keep spending over and over again. And I think that's kind of the same thing that they did with forcing Display Network ads, on the video campaigns, I think it's the same concept, like just, it's a way to get more advertising. And in addition to that, I had noticed Facebook has this new feature that says, Would you like your ads to be a multi multi advertiser channels or something like that, what that means is, if you don't uncheck that box, they'll put your ads like on Instagram next to other people's ads. So it's just like an ad feed. It's not actually a feed. So it's like you're competing against other ads, it's like a, I was thinking about it, it's like, like a swap meet. It's like, everyone's kind of selling the same thing. And you're all in the same area. So it can devalue your ad, but it can make it seem like it's being seen by a lot. And I thought this is interesting that they're making a lot of these changes. And then another change that I saw on Facebook was they changed, at least on my on all the My Accounts, which is a lot. They changed the default setting, to instead of like, especially on conversion campaigns, instead of showing costs or conversion, or leads or whatever. The default setting is reach impressions and engagements. And you actually have to like, search out how to put the conversion as the default setting to see your performance. That tells me multiple things. Either clients are starting to like fall off, because they're not seeing the conversions that they want. So it's almost like they're trying to convince you of something else. Yeah. But having that as the default. Yeah. And so yeah, so quite a few changes happening. And I know a lot of advertisers are like, What is going on? Like you're essentially taking away all targeting, but in my opinion, I think the entire time targeting is going to go away anyways. Yeah, like, if you think about it, the trend is maybe six years ago, five, six years ago, you can get ultra targeted, right. And then each year, they've removed more and more, you know, due to privacy. And really, it's just, I think it's a money grab. Yeah, but at the end of the day, you're gonna have to play by these rules anyway, so you have to get good at it. No matter what, it's not like advertising is gonna go away. You just gonna have to play by those rules and adjust. And I think I have seen quite a few comments with people online. Right, saying like, this is, you know, terrible and, and, in my opinion, it's just as far as part of the game. It's like anything else? Business changes. Yeah. And you just need to always know it's not it's not going to stay like this forever.
Blake Beus 4:22 Yeah. Oh, man. That's That's it. I mean, I have I have so many thoughts kind of surreal surrounding this, because, because I haven't, I mean, I haven't paid attention to that. And so this is kind of news to me. But it brings up a lot of a lot of things. The very, the very, very first thing is and this is where I take a step back and I look at the just kind of the industry, just the tech industry or even just like the economy as a whole because I'm, I'm a nerd in so many ways and economics isn't another way in which I nerd. I study that stuff way too much. Um, But one of the problems we have societally or economically and I'm talking kind of specifically the United States, this probably exists in other places too. But is is the way things like venture capitalists investing stock market. And these operate. So whenever I say I'm running a business, and I, I take some VC funds, how I used to work, helping businesses qualify for investor funds. So I know a bit about the it's not a ton, I did it while I was in college, but I used to work doing that. And basically how it works is we say, okay, we believe your company is worth $50 million. Yeah, even though your revenue is not there yet, and you're tight on cash. That's why you're looking for investors. And that's fine. That's like normal. But we think your business right now is worth $50 million. But we do think in the future will be worth more if you have the right money. So what we're going to do is we will give you $10 million, right now, for 1/5 of your business and you run the math, that's like it's worth 50 million we're giving, so we're giving you a $50 million valuation for $10 million. We as the as the VCs own 1/5 of the business. Yep. But because of the venture capitalists, I want to protect that investment. So the other part of the deal is, you have to have one of our board of directors or a person on our team, they need to, they need to sit on your board of directors, and help guide the company so that our investment is protected. And on the surface, that doesn't sound like too too bad of an idea. But the problem is, is that once you do that, as business, you kind of your customer is no longer the people you're trying to serve. It's the VC because you want to round two and around three and around forecasts. And so you're always trying to make those numbers look good. Same thing with the stock market. If I go public, once I go public, and my shares are being traded on the stock market, my customer is no longer the people I'm selling my product to it's the shareholders. And so I have to continuously show certain metrics. Yeah, which make my business look good on paper, but maybe alienating Yeah, your, your customer base. So we have this problem with both Facebook and Google. And basically every big company out there. I mean, you see this all the time, you have a great product, a great service that takes some VC money, and then all of a sudden, they're jacking up prices. Or they're saying, hey, buy an annual plan right now. And you can be grandfathered in this happened with a service I use recently. So they can pump their numbers, their revenue numbers really quick and show good on paper and do another round of investment. And so we have this all the time. And so companies are constantly not just sitting there saying, You know what, we're comfortably profitable. We don't need to change things, things are working. But instead they're saying, we need to show an increase in profit. And there's only two ways to do that. increase revenue, and decrease costs. And so you have these decisions that don't seem super logical. So this is one of those ways. Google and Facebook are so huge that they have so much market share. How do you increase that?
Unknown Speaker 8:12 I mean, last I looked, you gotta make more money. Yeah, last,
Blake Beus 8:17 I mean, you can't get more customers. They're so big. They have all the customers. So how do you make more revenue? If you can't get more customers? Well, I can't wait for more people to be born. I got to do it this this year. Yeah, I gotta do it this quarter investors
Greg Marshall 8:30 are waiting for their return. Yeah, the investors,
Blake Beus 8:33 they're not going to wait very long. And and so you start thinking of different ways you can do that. One great way, this is a behavioral economics thing is changing the defaults. Yeah, if I change the defaults, then more people will opt in to the thing that I want them to do. So we change the defaults. Yep. Right. And then after you do that, every everybody that's going to do that, that hasn't noticed or whatever they'll opt in. The next thing you do is maybe you make your services a bit more generic, people have to still they have to keep using them. And so you make them a little bit more generic. So you can kind of spread the revenue out on some of these channels that aren't as profitable for some people, but give more metrics. And then you start looking at different metrics. What metrics look way more impressive. CPMs cost per impression or just number of impressions. Yep. Which that one with the grouping with other advertisers? They basically every impression gets to yeah, go to to 10 different advertisers. So one set of eyeballs gives them 10 impressions to make their numbers look good. And I'm like, What the hell
Greg Marshall 9:45 yeah, that's that. So basically, and it makes sense. I mean, when you're the customer, it's easy to kind of like get upset, right? Oh, yeah. Because you're like, Well, I'm the customer. But if you were to flip the roles or Round, right? And you own Facebook and Google and you've got investors breathing down your neck, saying we need to have a profit that's bigger than last quarter, every quarter, forever. And you only have so many resources. I mean, you have to find a way to go, Well, how do I make more money? Because that's the only way to do this. And and in advertising, it's the amount of space that they force people to use. Right? And so it doesn't make any sense to have people figure out campaigns that will get them huge returns where then then they don't have to spend more, rake and just say, well, I'll just spend, you know, 10 grand this month, because I'm getting a 4x. I'll just leave it at that. Yeah, that's good enough. Yeah, it makes more sense for for you to say they have to spend 10 to get 20. Yeah, then they have to spend, because double
Blake Beus 10:53 is on their side of things. It's it's not necessarily on Facebook, in Google's best interest for you to get a 5x or a 10x return on any campaign campaign that Miles doing amazing, so good. And they shut it down. Because they're like you, it's too good. You guys are cheating. Somehow we weren't, we're not we literally weren't just perfect messaging and fit and everything, it's in their best interest for you to get a 2x campaign because that means more more revenue to spend more in Yeah, you got to spend more, but it's enough for you to keep spending Yep. And it can be wildly frustrating when this kind of stuff happens. But the reality is, is that whole system is not going to change. VCs aren't going to change the way that's happening, the stock market is not going away, right? Like none of that stuff is changing. So you just got to understand the incentives of these companies. And that makes sense why they're doing the things they're doing. And then you as an advertiser or a business, you have two choices, throw your hands up in the air and quit, go back to a nine to five, stop running your business, or adapt. And there will be people that will throw their hands up in the air and say, You know what I'm done with this. There's going to be media buyers and advertisers that will stick with it, but not adapt. And so they'll struggle and limp along. And then you'll have those that will put in the extra work, learn to adapt. And for those people, it's an opportunity.
Greg Marshall 12:24 Well, I think there'll be some big opportunities moving forward, because you can already see what this is going to do is take out people that really have no desire to do any work at all. Yeah, right and overly rely just on the machine. And I think like anytime things change, you'll see like a huge drop off. I heard a stat the other day, where they said, like, you know, we're in a recession. And they said, there was like a very huge number of real estate agents that have dropped out of the market. Because prices, you know, interest rates gone up, you know, blah, blah, blah, the same stuff that always happens every eight to 10 years, or whatever that number is. And what that basically shows you is there's probably an oversaturation, which means it was very easy. And then as soon as it gets hard, all the kind of that extra dead weight leaves, and only the people that are truly committed to kind of stick around. And it ain't easy for people to really commit to it. But they just, you just got to work your way through kind of that storm. And I think that's kind of what you know, I think there's multiple things going on with especially the ad changes, right? Recessions here, it's also fourth quarter. So they have to make their numbers, they know that average, a lot of advertisers are cutting their spend. So they have to figure out a way to get this revenue to go up. So they'll lean on pretty much the winners to keep spending more, because that's what they're gonna have to do. Right. Yeah. And I even saw some interesting, because you don't, I never thought of it this way. But I saw like, I follow a lot of YouTube creators on Twitter, just because I enjoy their content. Like I like to see what they have to say. And one of them who's kind of an industry leader, a guy that I respect, mentioned, he said, Yeah, I'm getting, he sent out a tweet, like a lot of YouTube creators have been kind of talking about how their CPMs have dropped by 30%. And that they're making less money because they're getting paid off of CPM. And I thought, that's interesting. It probably has something to do with the removal of content targeting because if you think about it, if these creators are making like, let's say one channel has a huge channel, and they have a specific audience and you're removing their nonsense people's ability to target that, then you're gonna get way less views, you're gonna get paid a lot less if it makes your channel less valuable. And so that's kind of where I think this is all going is one thing impacts the other. Yeah, so you're gonna see creators and it's always interesting to see how the businesses kind of adjust because I wonder when you're these app platforms. At some point, something's probably gotta give though, right? Like, if if you start to see that you're losing people in droves? Yeah, at some point, you've got to like, make an adjustment, because I would think the short term gain you would get from doing this long term, though, will hurt you. Right? Because eventually people will be like, well, if I can't target these channels is key. What if I can't target at all? And I have a very niche product? How will I sell that? Yeah. Using your platform? Yeah. Well,
Blake Beus 15:38 I mean, what you see is several different forms of consolidation. Right? If we, if we look back 10 years ago, this exact same kind of stuff happened with blogging, yep. Right. 10 years ago, someone could have a very comfortable business, blogging and just running Google ad, you know, AdSense, AdSense
Greg Marshall 16:02 fact, I had a client yet lived off this. Yeah, I had warned them about what you're really about to say.
Blake Beus 16:09 But the money paid per eyeball on your site will continuously go down. And that's the that's the exact same thing that will happen with YouTube creators, the money that they're making will go down. And the reason that happens is, is two different reasons. First, more advertisers are constantly hopping on board and you think, Oh, that would be great. But there's more advertiser competition there. Yep. Second, more creators are constantly hopping online. And third, people sometimes are just eventually kind of get sick of things. I, I've actually had quite a few people recently say, I am so sick of YouTube ads. Yeah, like yep, in YouTube has definitely been putting more out they have
Greg Marshall 16:55 on it. And it's significant. Now they have the two ads. And you notice I have like one hat.
Blake Beus 17:01 And then if you keep skipping, you'll get some Unskipable ones next. And that's frustrating to people. And so they'll say, You know what? Screw this. I'll go watch Netflix instead. Yep. Right. And, and so you're gonna see people doing that. So the reality is, though, is these companies are so big, that what you'll see is some consolidation, because those people are going somewhere. Yep. So they'll buy up something else. That's why that's exactly why Facebook bought Instagram. Yeah, people were more putting more time and effort into viewing Instagram than they were Facebook, or they saw that trend. Yep. So Facebook just bought. YouTube was a purchase that Google made. Yeah, Google saw a lot of people using YouTube and not reading blogs so much and stuff like that. And they could they, they were like, You know what, we're going to do this. So they bought YouTube and consolidated that, you'll, you'll see more and more of that, I think a lot of the top. So I think five years ago, the top creators on YouTube, were almost all independent creators. Now the top 20 creators on YouTube, almost every single one of them is a corporate entity, not not a not a person on the independent person or you know, a person who, whose business started on YouTube or whatever. So you'll see more and more of that kind of consolidation. But again, this is the this is the world we're living in this stuff isn't going to change.
Greg Marshall 18:29 Because you want it because you want it to.
Blake Beus 18:31 The only way this stuff would change is if we have some sort of government entity involved in saying, Alright, you guys need to do this and this and this, because of these reasons, which might happen, but we don't know. And if it does, it's going to be a very long process. And you can't, you can't wait and hope and hope that that that will change. Because it probably won't.
Greg Marshall 18:56 And I also think too, like, this is the nature of you know, because this is where I'm starting to feel old. You start seeing these cycles, and they're like, well, this happens to be you know, this has happened. I've seen this happen now like twice Yeah. Or it's like you there's a major powerhouse, the powerhouse goes away, then it's a new powerhouse. And then it always feels like that powerhouse will be there forever. But they're not. They get overtaken or something changes or they get bought out or it's just a cycle, right. And they I remember like when MySpace was came out, I thought that day was never going to end. And then Facebook came and I thought there's no way Facebook can take over and the Facebook did and now you thought there's no way anything could ever be faced with an Instagram shows up. And so this is a cycle and it's essentially like, you'll do yourself a huge favor. If you just assume that right now i will be doing this. And in the future I will be doing something else. Yeah, right because that will change and it's kind of the St. Like when you're talking about and you know, this is a marketing podcast, right? So we're talking about marketing, marketing principles stay the same always. It's just what platforms you use. Right, right. And you just got to know like platforms are always going to change, but the fundamentals don't. So it doesn't matter what the next thing is, you're still going to have to use same fundamentals that we've used for. I will,
Blake Beus 20:25 I would say the fundamentals become more important. Yep. And when we talk about fundamentals, and when we talk about it a lot on this, we talk about message to market fit. We talk about offer fit fit to the audience. Yeah, because here's the thing, people change much slower. Yeah, then these tech platforms change, right. And so as long as your messaging and your offer is, is good, and in line with what people actually want, you just got to get it in front of those people. And maybe that's getting it in front of those people is different now than it was a year ago, maybe you have fewer targeting options than you had a year ago. But you still just need to get it in front of the right people. And if you get in front of the right people, you've you've got a winner. I mean, 50 years ago, it was sending direct mail. I mean, that's still as a family, and still get mail, I still get junk mail in my mailbox all the time. And they literally wouldn't send it if it wasn't making them money. So it's still working, even though that was a way of doing it 50 years ago. Yeah, it still works. today. I'm not saying you should to hop over into that space, necessarily. But
Greg Marshall 21:41 I think what you're saying too, is skill set, right, like so, the people who are really good at direct mail, continue to use it, because they're very good. But the people who maybe if you hop on an opportunity early, right, you can kind of get away with like, not being very good. Because the opportunity is so new, it's fresh costs are down. As soon as those costs go up, though, you cannot afford not to be good. Yeah, like you have to think things through and actually say, like, instead of just throwing anything out there, I have to make a good app, you have to think like who is this? How do I make sure I repel the wrong audience attract the right one? How do I get a good ad? Copy out hook? How do I have the right offer some that? Sometimes I feel like is almost overlooked? Yeah, is having a good product. Right makes a big difference. If you're marketing, like a product that's bad, then you're gonna have best ad copy in the world, but you're just not gonna see growth. I mean, you have to have a good product. And so I think with all these changes, it's inevitable. And it's interesting to like, because I'm, you know, I follow all these people on Twitter and LinkedIn and stuff, just to like, keep a good pulse of the markets. I feel like that's my job. And just kind of looking at all that it's, it's interesting to see the reactions, the almost not victim mentality, but like, yeah, in a way, like, this is unfair. And it's like, it, there's nothing's gonna, you can't, you could call them 1000 times a day and say, This is unfair, it's not gonna change. So you might as well just adjust, you've just got to adjust to what it is and what the new way is. And anytime there's tough changes. I always see. It never feels good. I can't remember who I was talking to the last week. But I always feel like this is relevant, and never feels good. While you're going through the change. That's actually good for you. Right? It never feels good while you're going through. But usually, if you hang in there, and you kind of adjust things, nine times out of 10 It's actually a good thing. Whatever is happening. Yeah, it feels very inconvenient the moment. And so that's because I still remember during COVID times, yeah, I honestly, I was scared when that first hit because my first thought was, oh, no, everyone's gonna cut budgets. Business is not even open, how am I going to advertise? And I remember being really, really concerned about that. Because I was like, Man, this is such a change. And what ended up happening was the opposite. Yeah, things grew because everyone cut their spending and as became cheaper. And so I was able to take advantage of that. So that's kind of my rant is anytime something quote unquote, bad happens, it doesn't feel great while it's happening. But usually, if you focus on the opportunity, you can find a way to make it work better than the current way. Yeah, we're working on that. Yeah.
Blake Beus 24:43 Yeah. It's interesting, interesting to think about. I'm going to shift gears just a little bit because I just have this weird thought I, I think about I think about this kind of stuff all the time. From an algorithm perspective. This would never happen, but Oh, you were you were talking, we were talking earlier about how it's doesn't make a whole lot of sense for them to, to see that you're making 10x row as or whatever like that. I oftentimes wonder what would happen to their algorithm, if all advertisers agreed to report zero revenue back to Facebook and Google, he would throw their algorithm way off, and it would be very interesting to see, to see what would happen, it wouldn't that would never happen. But part of me thinks that that would be interesting. Maybe they don't deserve to see my revenue numbers. Yeah. Because when, if I can't target for conversions anymore, then you don't get to see my revenue numbers. And
Greg Marshall 25:37 I think, yeah, that you know, now that you say that, too. I wonder sometimes I wonder, because, you know, they're taking, aren't they taking cookies away to 23?
Blake Beus 25:48 Is it Yeah, but that's a that's a, that's a privacy thing. That's kind of more of like a regulation? Well, kind of a thing. But yes, that will impact advertisers. And these third party cookies are going away, even first party cookies are probably going to be going away so
Greg Marshall 26:01 well, which makes me think like, should you just prepare to like, conversion campaigns? We've talked about this before, but like, do you think eventually conversion campaigns, like selecting it as an objective could actually go away? Because how else would you track conversions? If you can't? It would have to all happen within platform, right? Because if it's going to happen on a website, if first party and third party data is going to go away, yeah. Then how would you track that?
Blake Beus 26:34 You would use something like their conversion API? Which sir, which is server to server communication, which doesn't rely on things like cookies or tracking pixels or anything like that. And so there will, there will still be ways to do it, you might just need to make sure you're on a tech platform that has an integration with Facebook's conversion API, or Google. I don't know, they don't have a fancy name for it. But Google has an API for the same thing. My
Greg Marshall 27:01 question, though, would be this. So for the lazy person who doesn't do that, not only does it impact that person, but wouldn't impact the platform because they're getting receiving less data. It would be advantageous if they want their conversions to basically make sense and use algorithm based to have everyone using this API then, right? Yeah. So if people aren't connecting their API's, what did they be losing a significant amount of data?
Blake Beus 27:31 They they would, my guess is, is that they probably don't care. And well, let me put it this way, they probably don't care about those advertisers. Because they're probably not the advertisers that are spending the money to make the real money. Right? The people spending the real money will take the effort and have resources to hook up to the API, which isn't that hard if you're a tech person, or you can hire a tech person. But if you're not a tech person, and you're doing this solo business thing, you're not spending enough money for them to progress even care.
Greg Marshall 28:09 Well. And I was just thinking not even necessarily, from that aspect. Meaning how, how accurate? Like, wouldn't even if you had a bunch of low spending people, and let's say that's like 70% of your advertisers, then you could potentially lose 70% data, does that make the machine less smart?
Blake Beus 28:31 I guess it depends on what kind of data you're looking at. And considering. So right now, the data you get from the pixel is pretty unreliable, anyway, yeah. Because it's not guaranteed data. And it's just because of how that works. So for example, the pixel is say, I'm on my computer, and I'm browsing on my computer, and I go to 10 different sites that have the Facebook pixel installed, I don't purchase anything or whatever, but I'm just browsing sites, that data gets sent back from my web browser, specifically, to Facebook. Yeah. And there's a lot of problems that can happen. My my ISP could be glitchy, or my Wi Fi could could be whatever, and those packets could get dropped. And that data could get dropped, or I might have an ad blocker installed, or something along those lines. So then that data doesn't get reported back reliably. And so unreliable data is hard to make the data meaningful at predicting, this person is going to be the next person to purchase your xyz, whatever. So having more perfect data, even if it's less data is probably advantageous to them. So it was it's less muddy, it's more accurate, even though it's less so they can rely on it better.
Greg Marshall 29:56 So I always think to Is it possible we've all become overly reliant on conversion campaigns? Like sometimes when you use conversion campaigns, you really are like leaning heavy on an algorithm? Yeah, right.
Blake Beus 30:14 Yeah. I mean, probably, but if it's working, it's working. Yeah. No, no, no saying you shouldn't do it. Yeah, just probably. But I would hazard to guess, conversion campaigns are going to become less and less in fact, effective. As as we kind of go on, you're probably not going to have a conversion campaign, that's going to be a 5x or 10x. Row as anymore, you can still get that. But it's probably going to be part of a larger marketing funnel with text messages or email marketing kind of mixed in there. And the campaign all by itself probably won't be getting the 5x row as the 10x. I was just thinking like that.
Greg Marshall 30:52 When do you remember what year like because I remember running ads, where there wasn't even a conversion objective. Do you remember what year?
Blake Beus 31:01 That was? Actually, before I started running ads, okay. Because yeah, yeah, I started. I mean, I had I had done so he
Greg Marshall 31:08 tried to make me feel.
Blake Beus 31:12 I mean, I had done some, some Tech Data integrations, from like, a software engineer side of things. But I wasn't actually running ads. I didn't start running ads until 2018. So wow,
Greg Marshall 31:27 that's Yeah, it's crazy to think because I think I've been running ads. And I never really think about how long I've been doing it. But it's, I was running ads, when you could really only get like, you could buy the right hand space. That like the desktop. And the only campaign objectives. At the time, if I remember, there was only like, have like two or three. And the highest level one was like engagement. Yeah, like you can pick the engagement objective. And that was like, and that was like next level, you pick that as like, wow, you can get people to engage on that. And then conversion campaigns came by, and I just, it's funny, because I don't remember what year, but all of a sudden, it became like, this huge game changer, like, people started using it, and it will get you these huge returns. And it was just just interesting how the evolution of all of it. And I wonder if there's like, there'll be this window and time, just like I'm talking about only doing desktop newsfeed or desktop, right hand corner ads, as like, remember that time conversion campaign. And I wonder if we're like living through that, like little window where like, it's a shift to something else, because it does change and it changes quickly. And I, you know, I just now that we're talking about these conversion campaigns. For the good old days, it's like, wow, that's, that's cool. So I think, you know, marketing, like, like we said, fundamentals don't change. For the most part, human behavior doesn't change that much. Or if it does, it's very, very slow. And the core motions, humans, I feel like will always have the same core emotions. And if you tug on those emotions, people react. And so I think if you just get good at the fundamentals, you know, selling for emotional, have people just find a logic, have a good offer, and then just adjust these platforms. Everything's gonna be just fine as long as you're willing to do the work.
Blake Beus 33:31 Yeah, I think so. All right, let's wrap it up. Greg. How can people get in touch with you,
Greg Marshall 33:35 Greg marshall.co. You can book a free strategy session with
Blake Beus 33:38 Blake beus.com/sm3 is the best way to get in touch with me.
Greg Marshall 33:41 All right. Well, until next time, I'll talk to guys later today. Bye bye.
Wednesday Nov 09, 2022
Wednesday Nov 09, 2022
Blake Beus 0:00 Okay, so we were just barely talking about. I mean, everybody talks about data driven and all of these things. But we, we were talking about some unique situations where a lot of business owners, they've been through the the brand voice message, the customer avatar thing that they they put in that work, which I don't think is a bad thing. But then it's almost like they get a bit locked in, in that area. Stubborn. And and convinced that that that because they did that work, which is great, that that's what we need to stick with when the customers are voting with their dollars in a different direction. Maybe you can clarify what I'm what I'm getting at? Yeah,
Greg Marshall 0:45 well, I think one thing, and you know, I've think we've all fallen prey to this before, but being too overly focused on like, what you want the message and the image to be versus what the customer reacts and pays for. Yeah, and some examples that I would use is, oftentimes I see. And it's normally the individual that's very brand centric, right? Especially if they want to present a high end brand, right, they become so obsessed with how everything looks and feels to them, that they're actually focusing on the wrong person. Yeah, you need to focus on the customer who's going to buy it. And where this is coming from is actually I've run a bunch of campaigns where I've seen where the business owners is like dead set on the vision and the brand, and everything has to look a certain way, yet those campaigns perform very poorly. And then when we switch it up and do it more in the way that the customer responds to, the business owner is unhappy with how the image brand and voice looks. But the customers are responding and
Blake Beus 1:56 buying and buying. And so they're, they're happy with the money coming in. Yep. But they're not happy with the images or the video because they're not pro quality. Yeah, or, or any of those
Greg Marshall 2:09 are, they don't look as a very specific way, maybe the way they envisioned and I go back to, when I when I first started doing my fitness business, we initially wanted to go after like this high end. And I think a lot of changes is high end highly motivated, willing to spend a lot of money type of client. And we kind of just kept pushing that over and over and over again. And we noticed we had no customers, no one would pay us even though we were like we deserve the high paying customer we deserved this is the best product out there. No customers where we had people like beating our door down, saying can you help us lose weight? Can you help us get fit, and this is the exact thing we were trying to get away from. And we finally caved in because we're like, well, these people are literally like throwing their money at us asking us can we help them? Maybe it's time to make a pivot and make a change. And when we did that, we started seeing great success. And so I say that because it is very common, in my experience, especially if it's a newer business owner. Or maybe someone that has the habit of comparing themselves to other bigger brands, where they get so locked in on how everything needs to look that they don't do enough testing, to see what gets the customer to buy. And then how do I do more of that? Right? And that's kind of the point of this topic is to almost tell you make sure you're not making this mistake where you're doing it a certain way, because you want it. But the customer or the market is not actually even paying for it.
Blake Beus 3:49 Yeah, I mean, this is when I went to college, I have a degree in Business Information Systems. And I had a bunch of business classes with that. And it was it was one on one, it's like, marketing one on one, you are not your customer. Yep, you are not the one going in there and buying this thing to fix this problem. You've already solved the problem. Yep. So you are a completely different person than your customer is. And so the best way to figure out what your customers want is to ask them and let them vote with their money. And this is where, you know, free market forces and we want to start using some economic terms free free market forces. This is this is how that stuff works. And you see this all the time in, in restaurants, right? If you have ever been to a brand new restaurant that just opened up in a dance, they have a menu and that menu is the chef's best guess what people might like right and and I've I've helped open restaurants before when, you know when I was working at the ski resort. And it is we have there's lots of meetings about you know what kind of food we want to have your meeting with the general manager of the resort and everything and, and I was in a lot of those meetings mostly because I'm I'm a tech guy, and I've got to be able to make sure their systems are selling and all this. But all of it is this big guess. Yeah. And then when people start showing up, you see what they're buying? Yep. And then you drop the things on the menu that they're not buying. Yep. And then you add more things to the menu to see if you can find a few winners. Yep. Right. But the ones that are selling, you know, get rid of those. Yeah, you never get rid of those. And in I don't know why in business in like, a more a non food business. This concept is, is is harder for people to grasp or something. And I think one of the things you said really drove the point home in that they're comparing themselves oftentimes to much bigger brands. Yes, right. Um, my, my wife, and I watched the house of Gucci, okay. And I have never owned any Gucci Mane, we've never. But you know, there's this this high end fashion brand with a specific look, and whatever. The thing is, if I were to launch a clothing brand today, it would be absolutely crazy for me to try to dump so much money into the photography and the videography and everything to match that brand. Because I'm not Gucci not yet. Like, if I wanted to be as big as Gucci, whatever, I think that's possible. But you, you aren't at that stage yet, where that even makes sense, you need to come down to this lower stage. And I think the waters get one last thing a little even a little bit muddier in that was social media ads, people want to see the types of ads that they expect to see in their newsfeed. Yep. So when you have a very organic looking photo of, you know, someone modeling something, and it's clearly not a pro photo shoot, that oftentimes can resonate better with your customers than a high fashion, very professional, highly edited, perfect photo.
Greg Marshall 6:48 Yep, I would agree. And in fact, not only will I agree, I can just tell you just from looking at data, that seems to be the case, the ones that are like very organic, and almost look like they're not an ad, are the ones that perform the best and what the way you can take that information is to essentially let yourself test different ways of communicating to your audience. And then focus on doing more of what works and remove your emotion from how you wish or want it to be. Right. Like, an example would say, like, I sure wish I was 610 and was in the NBA, but I'm not right, right. So I can't behave like I'm a six foot 10. And expect things that a six foot 10 NBA basketball player would expect, when I'm not any of that, right? And that's kind of how you have to view your businesses, you have to go where am I at right now? What is the customer really looking for, and then grow your way into a lot of the big brands that you see, or you know, aspire to be or emulate? Do the things that they did when they first began, for example, selling sneakers out of a trunk, selling CDs on a street one to one, actually knocking on people's doors to sell their shampoo. These are examples of billionaires that have a lot of money, that they have very extravagant marketing campaigns now, but that is the wrong stage for you to be following. You need to do what they did when they're at your
Blake Beus 8:21 stage. And you're always going to be frustrated if you try to follow the stage of a large brand. Yes. Or follow the strategy of a large brand, because it's frankly, impossible for a small business to do that. Yeah, why money? Like these, these, these large brands have marketing departments that are hundreds of people large Yeah. And then they have entire departments that are just for media production. Yep, where they have entire studios and everything to take all of these photos. And I know you can get a $2,000 camera and a nice lens and some decent lights and get kind of close. But this waste of your time to put all that effort into a couple of photos. It's just not worth it, you're much better off, snapping some photos, focusing on your brand message. And figuring out which of those work and in scaling up the things that work
Greg Marshall 9:12 exactly. I think messaging is more of because you can always fine tune photos and videos and things like that. But it's the messaging that actually matters the most because if you can resonate with the customer, then you can start making much more because you figured out what message works, then you can start making much more prolific type of campaigns with better pictures and better video and you can kind of upgrade that way. And that's exactly how the brands that maybe you aspire to be did it. They figured out what their market is what the message is, who's their actual customer and buyer figured out how to give them more that stuff and then build campaigns around that the messaging instead of guessing and doing these elaborate photoshoots or video shoots I have another big brand without even knowing what message works.
Blake Beus 10:03 Yeah, yeah, it's um one of my, one of my favorite brands on Instagram is a good example of this. It's, it's a brand that's targeted towards middle aged men, like myself. And the brand is called Sharpies, and they started off selling just swim shorts. Okay, yeah. And when they first started off, and their swim shorts are kind of like bright and loud and everything because traditionally, swim shorts for dudes have always been I don't know, camo. Yeah, we're blue with some stripes. Yeah, nothing crazy. And, and so these, these guys did this. But their brand messaging has shifted over time to apart a point where now it's pretty professional, but their messaging is dialed in, and people know who they are, and everything. But their messages are funny. They'll oftentimes take photos of actors in the 80s, like men, with their hairy chests, and whatever, and wearing really short shorts. So they're like, it's time to bring back the short shorts, you know, stuff like that. But it's, it's just a funny brand. But they didn't start off that way. If I were to launch a short brand a day and try to emulate what they're doing, it would fall flat, because there's already someone kind of feeling that knee. Yep. And but they had to, they had to go into that they didn't know exactly what they needed to do. They had an angle. Yep. But but they didn't know exactly. And then it took them several years of consistent marketing effort to do that. And now Now they do really well. The same thing can work with products too. But go ahead.
Greg Marshall 11:34 No, I'm sorry to cut you off. But I want to I don't want to forget this point you just made. The point Blake just mentioned is this company was testing and giving what the customer wanted. Yeah. Like they didn't say we sell shorts, this way. And that's the only way we're gonna sell. No matter what the customer says there, they adjust to what the market is telling them they want. And so that's, that's something that I wanted to interrupt and make sure you hit on that, because that's a great point.
Blake Beus 12:03 And that's, that's kind of like the whole point of a business in general. The great thing about owning your own business, is you can make your own products and services. Yep. And so because of that flexibility, I think a lot of people kind of forget this point, because of that flexibility. You can literally adjust your products and services to match whatever the customers want. And theoretically, this is super simple. Like, it's like, people like this t shirt. Let's maybe ask a few of them why they liked that T shirt. And then let's make some more that have those qualities in there. Yeah. Is it? Is it the quality of the fabric? Is it the funny message? What about the message? Is it the design is that the colors, whatever those are, and then launch some similar to that and see, see what people resonate with and then drop the duds and or bundle the duds. Yeah, bundle the duds to get rid of is a special flash sale
Greg Marshall 12:54 offers. Yeah, you buy this, you get these for free,
Blake Beus 12:57 for free, or whatever, you know. But you, you need to going back to what you said about removing your emotion. I heard this phrase this week, and I loved it. Some points in time, you just need to be a stone cold, professional, right. And I like I like being loosey goosey and running a kind of a casual business and things. But when it comes to ads and emotion, you got to be a stone yelled professional. And you have to look at which ones are working and which ones aren't. Because if you keep turning off the ads that are working, yeah. Because you don't like the picture isn't super professional, you just have a feel or you have a feeling. You're constantly you're literally shutting off your revenue sources. It's like I'm thirsty, and you keep turning off the water, the water spouts that are given me the most water. Why would we do that? Is it it's because of oftentimes your own post personal insecurities or visions or whatever?
Greg Marshall 13:59 Well, it's funny that you mentioned that. So just just yesterday, I had a call with one of my clients. And there's, they have a unique setup where it's kind of three owners and they're they're all very open minded and willing to try things, which is great. So we spoke yesterday. And it's funny how it was a good lesson in emotional decision making versus the data, right? Because two of the people of the three were felt that the ads were performing exceptionally well. And then one of them felt that the ads weren't performing at all. Which is interesting, right? So they were both trying to figure out why do you believe that the ads are not performing well at all and they're like, Well, I I just been here that people sales. And so think about this, she said I just been hearing about other people's sales and the sales or or this and that and you know, maybe it's a tough time And the other two are just looking at the data from the ad account and saying we're getting what we want. And they got 500 subscribers to see, you know, for 300. Something bucks targeted US Canada leads not, that's cheap. Yeah. And sheep it and it's to the exact targeted audiences that they want. Yeah. And so after we went through the numbers, she actually felt like, wow, this campaign is doing really well. We literally almost turned it off, because she was like, I just don't know if it's resonating, or this, this and that. Yeah. And so that's, to me a perfect example of how you can have, you can feel an emotion. And if you sometimes follow that emotion, you can make the wrong decision for your business.
Blake Beus 15:47 It, I think it's a bit of a catch 22 situation, because when you start, if you're a business owner or whatever, and you suddenly start diving into ads, you want to start learning about ads. Yep. And so you start learning about it. But then you start, there's no shortage of people out there willing to tell you how to run ads, many of them disagree with with one another. And guess what, we're here on a podcast telling you about how to run ads, right? Like everybody in their dog is going to tell you that. And you're going to have people that are going to say this is the only way I would run out right now. Because you hear that messaging all the time. And then you so you, you start knowing and learning more, and then you start second guessing what, what you know, is work is working? Yep. And so at some point in time, I'm a big believer, at some point in time, you need to kind of shut off the gurus, and trust yourself, you know, trust, like trust yourself, and the things that you've learned that are working with you with your, your business and everything. It's okay to learn a few things here there. And I think, I think in our podcasts, we're not super, super opinionated about, absolutely do it this way, do this one structure, if you do this one structure will work because it's not really sustainable. Things change too much. We talk a lot more about principles and things. So that's my hint that you should keep listening to this. But trust yourself, and what's working for your business and maybe shut off some of these other channels with these loud voices to trying to teach you how to run ads. And
Greg Marshall 17:18 well. And the other thing about you got to be careful with how much you can get information overload where one person will say, I mean, look at anything in life, how to make the most money, right, that's a subject everyone's probably looked up before. You got some people will say you should focus on one business. And he got some people say you should have 20 streams of income. Right? Which one is the correct way? Well, it depends. If you're already a millionaire 20 streams might make sense because you've already have a million. And you can diversify. If you have $10, it makes no no sense to have tried to attempt to do 20 different businesses. And so it really depends on each person. And so if you take information and you almost like just think, Okay, this is the way no matter what versus saying, How can I apply some of these principles into what I'm doing, you can get very confused. And what you're going to do is just be in a cycle of starting and stopping over and over and over again and gain zero momentum, right. And then because you don't gain any momentum, you're keeping yourself in the hardest stage of anything, which is the very beginning. You're literally keeping yourself
Blake Beus 18:29 going in the hardest, hardest part and you're getting burnout, because you you you're you're stuck in this loop where you don't get out of the hard part, you
Greg Marshall 18:39 still in the hard part. And the worst part is you're the one doing it yourself. You're actually resetting and restarting your progress over and over and over and over again, instead of looking at how can we build some momentum. Let the momentum work for me. And let me make adjustments as I go along. Instead of start, stop, start stop. And that's, that's something that I also see a lot is the starting and stopping you hear people say, Well, I've tried this, or I've tried that, and then you go, but for how long? Well, you know, I ran for three days I spent, you know, 50 bucks. And it's like, there's no I mean, you never gave anything a chance to build the momentum. The people who see the best results in any aspect, making money running ads, exercise and fitness, marriage. It's all the same long term, build momentum fundamentals. There's no tricks Yeah, to start and stop over and over again. Because if you get overly fixated on that, you literally will keep yourself and the hardest part of the journey over and over
Blake Beus 19:46 again. This is this is Greg's marriage counseling. We've We've turned it into this is no relationship.
Greg Marshall 19:56 This is marriage counseling.
Blake Beus 20:00 But it's true. Like, these are the reasons we talked about principles a lot is because a lot of these principles carry over into many different aspects and can be applied to to many, many different things. And, and it's so easy hung up on a lot of these details and everything. But when it really boils down to it, running a business, at least principles of running a business is pretty straightforward. You just need to give people more of what they want. Stop doing what's not working, and follow those numbers. That's the end the podcast. Well, there's that's it, you know, we're shutting shutting everything down. We buy, we buy our course. Yeah, that one sentence. Like unless of what they don't. Such a simple statement, but it's so hard to do. I don't want to minimize it. Like, I've definitely struggled with that. Right? Same here. We're emotional beings, like, yeah, we do that I've been so hung up on my emotions before, with various different aspects of my business and everything, I get it. So it's easy to say, and I know it's hard to implement. But it's one of those things that you should constantly strive to maybe gut check those emotions. Well,
Greg Marshall 21:06 you know what, speaking of emotions, this is why you have you should before you make any decision, take a step back with with, what am I feeling right now? And does this have? Is it real? And I'll give you an example. Let's say, you know, not that this has ever happened to me. But let's say you didn't sleep for a few days, because you're babies. And you're extremely exhausted, right? Well, sometimes when you're very tired, you start, like the little things that maybe don't bother, you will start to bother you. Right? Yeah. And but you could really make some really dumb decisions. If you let that portion impact your decision making instead you have to go, Well, this is probably fake. None of this is really that bad. It's that I just haven't slept for three days. Yeah. And so let me I actually exercise this a couple of days ago. And it was, I was like, I wish I knew this like 15 years ago. But it was. So I didn't have a great night's sleep. And then I found out some information, like some changes that we needed to make a certain campaign. And I felt like, you know what, I'm just really tired. And I don't want to say yes or no, or make any adjustments based on how tired I am. So I'm just gonna, and I would have never done this 1015 years, I'm just gonna not do anything. I'm just gonna go to sleep tonight. And then tomorrow, when I wake up, I'm gonna think what's the best decision, I waited one day and made the correct decision. And it was the decision that I would have made the day before. So even that taught me the importance of taking a step back, right, let's, let's say you're very tired from exercise or family, or maybe you had someone pass away in your family, or you've just got outside life factors. Sometimes those can transfer into, like, the one thing you can control your business, you're looking for a sense of control. So you control that, versus taking a step back and going. Is this real?
Blake Beus 23:13 Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I get that all the time. Right. And I feel that way, a lot. It's and not to get too much into you know, mental health or whatever. But when you're in like a mental health cycle, which everybody, everyone, I think more people need to talk about mental health. It's not it's certainly not a bad thing. We all go through stressful moments, or were moments where things aren't going right. But it's very easy to kind of get stuck in a cycle. And and when I do me personally, I get an inner dialogue that is negative. Yeah. And, and I have to gut check that, and my wife helps me gut check that which is great. But I have to gut check that and say wait, or is this inner dialogue actually reflective of reality? Yeah. Most of the time is not a couple of times. It is but it's too harsh. Yeah. Because obviously we have things to work on right? Yeah, every everybody does. But my kind of point in sharing that is we have that but a good way to kind of check those things is to have someone else you can talk to Yep. And I'm telling you right now most the time with Greg and his clients he's he's honestly more of a therapist but but no, you need to gut check yourself. And that's why it's that's why having I don't know a media buyer on your team or or a business partner or an associate or if you're just starting out. I don't know just someone that's maybe not just anyone that doesn't know anything about ads, because that would be frustrated. Maybe someone that knows a little bit about marketing advertising just to bounce some ideas off of them, and to gut check yourself, or whatever, but it's totally okay to think am I am I thinking About this correctly or do or whatever. And when in doubt, just follow the numbers. Yeah,
Greg Marshall 25:04 and I think to the importance of having an outside eye on things, or someone to bounce ideas off of is important because the likelihood that both of you are feeling the exact same emotion at the exact same time is highly unlikely. Right? Right. So if you're, let's say having, you know, problems at home, or you're having problems at work, or you're at work, you're having problems with your health, whatever that is, most likely, the other person you're talking to, is not going through the exact same thing at the exact same time. And so they don't feel as emotionally kind of boxed in as maybe you are. So they're able to give a little bit more constructive feedback on like, You should do this or try this or take a step back. And so that's where I see the value of having other people to bounce ideas off of, and really talk things through. And I know for me, anytime, you know, we're going into the emotional side of things, because that's probably the most important thing you can do for making the best decisions for your business long term is controlling your emotions and understanding them better. Because if you know your tendencies, right, like for example, I know if I don't sleep that great. Sometimes I get a little more anxious, more antsy with things. My maybe my, my fuse is shorter, right? Why know that? So if that happens, I know to go, Well, I'm going to back out of some appointments. I'm gonna go do something completely unrelated and relaxing, so that I can prevent myself from even putting myself in the environment of making a bad decision. Yeah. Right. Because because I know that's how I behaved Yeah. If I don't get any sleep, or or I'm just physically exhausted. And so do you have any kind of tactics that you'd like to use? When you kind of know you're at your threshold? And you're like, Well, before I do anything that I'm not going to be happy with? Let me go ahead and start with.
Blake Beus 27:04 Yeah, I have lots of first and foremost, one of the most consistent triggers for me to be grumpy is I'm hungry. Because I focus on I focus on work. Like when I sit down, I usually work really hard. And I've got, you know, juggling between a couple of different things. And it's very easy for me to forget that I need to eat and have water. Yep, drink water. And so first and foremost, I kind of prep for that. Yeah, I don't, I intentionally don't eat like snacks and things at my desk, because it's too easy, just cram and food. But I have them like away from my desk, and I'll go up and grab a handful and check the time. I try to be pretty consistent with meals. Like I'm like a little baby fat on time getting whiny. But the other thing I've been doing recently is I, I work in a remote office. And I have set up this cozy corner. Yeah, with a chair and an ottoman and some plants and a blanket. And I sit down. And I call it meditation. Yep. Sometimes it turns into a nap. Yeah, I set a timer because I don't want to sleep for like a month meditate. But it's it's I basically my the point of it is I sit there and I try to just kind of clear my head of thoughts. Because I, I have a lot of thoughts going on a lot of the time and, and there's a bunch of different techniques, people can like in their head, chant different things or whatever. What I do is I just count backwards from 100. Yeah, I need something more than just saying the same thing. Because my brain can think about things. Yep, saying something happened going autopilot. But if I have to count backwards, I have to think about the focus just a little bit. But I don't want something too complicated. But something that makes me have to focus enough so that I'm not thinking about this software engineering problem, or this customer problem that I'm dealing with, or whatever, I don't want those things to spin. And I do it for 2030 minutes. And it it sounds I don't know, it helps a lot. I think it helps a lot. I
Greg Marshall 29:00 think it's important to prioritize time like that in your day, particularly if you're running ads, or you've got anxiety about running ads, or you've got anxiety about just anything else that's you know, going on in your business. Because if you don't take that time out, you're setting yourself up for massive failure, because you're going to start to feel these emotions and they'll start to compound. So the anxiety starts to go into the depression, and the depression starts going into anger. And then it becomes well I don't even know if I should do this. And then before you know, it's like, but nothing in your business has actually changed. It's all your motions that have changed, right? And it's it's funny because there's so many times where you can you know, from running my own stuff for for quite a while now. I've learned a thing or two about self management for me and how I behave and I just try to really go alright, I have felt This emotion before, and the decisions I made in the past weren't always the most productive, right? And so, knowing that, what can I do differently? When this comes up again, and you just kind of like step back and try to learn from previous mistakes or errors, and at the time, you don't know better, but now you do, right? Like, now you understand how to improve these. I feel like, if you spend more time, here's, here's something that I don't know if I've ever actually revealed, but I try to spend more time, quote, unquote, like having fun than working. And I consistently try to keep that unbalanced. And the reason why I do that, because I have a tendency to want like, if I don't stop myself, I want to work the whole day. Oh, that's and and all day, and that's unhealthy. So because of that, I switched my thinking, I just said, I need to actually focus more on having fun, because I've run into the opposite problem of almost working yourself to death, right?
Blake Beus 31:06 Well, that's my default, my default answer to every problem is to work hard. And I don't love that. I mean, I'm glad I'm a hard worker, but I don't love the the older I get, the more I realized that's not a healthy trait. Now, you got to have you got to have a good, a good balance. And, frankly, I'm trying to teach my kids that as well. It's, it's hard, right? Cuz a lot of aspects of life. Yeah, in a lot of aspects of life like school and things. When when my kids are in school school is pitching it as this is the most important thing, you got a bunch of homework, these grades matter, especially my son is in high school, these grades are starting to really matter. Yep. And, and they're not wrong about any of those things. And I absolutely am a huge fan of being as educated as you can. Sure. But sometimes I feel like there's so much emphasis put on working hard and putting in all of this extra effort when our quality of life isn't there. So we get into these habits, college was very much stepped out for me, I was working full time doing school full time and had a family and, and that was you know, a few years ago, basically just kind of, I did it. I just didn't sleep a whole lot. But it kind of set this stage where my default solution of a problem is to work hard. And it's not fun. Yeah, when you do that, like it's not enjoyable.
Greg Marshall 32:26 Well, I think too, you can get a lot of the wrong messages from you know, making things quote unquote, matter. One of my things that I've learned over time with making things matter is when you attach too much of a meaning to something, I find in my own experience that it creates a negative thought pattern, a negative cycle, you're no longer doing things for enjoyment, or to improve yourself, you're now acting out of fear, right, and you're acting out of fear that something bad is gonna happen. And then you're basically robbing all the enjoyment out of your life. And because you make something matter more, doesn't mean you will actually perform better. That's kind of the irony of it is as a good point. A lot of times you perform worse, yes. So you're making you're increasing the meaning of something with the kind of thought thinking that if I make it matter more, I'll perform better. But the irony is you don't you perform worse when you make it matter
Blake Beus 33:35 more. Yeah, there's a lot more stress, anxiety, you know, mental energy needed to to this thing that's like super, super, super important. I think that's, we're getting philosophical. I think. I think that's, uh, yeah, I do. I think that's one of the reasons why I struggle with a lot of when, like, someone who's wildly successful, writes a book. And they're like, here's how you do a startup business, or whatever. It's like, you don't have a lot of the anxiety and stress because you have this massive cushion, shirt and blanket and everything. And so I don't think your information is actually that relevant shirt to your average everyday person, because they have a different set of circumstances. And of course, you can run 2030 businesses because you have a team helping you with this and, and all of these things and payroll of $20 million. Right, right. And that's all fine. Like, I'm not saying that that person is bad. I'm just saying, I really struggle when someone who's up here is telling people down here, how to get up here because most of the time, I don't think they actually know how to do it. Yeah. I think they know how they did it. Yep. But I don't think they know how to teach others to do it because the circumstances are so different. Yep. So I my very first example of like, really this thought thinking sinking in is when I read Elon, Elon Musk's autobiography and it was written back in 2015 and He's much more famous, famous character now than back then. But the book was talking about how he, you know, he was one of the founders of PayPal sold that had a lot of money. But he dumped it right back into starting three different businesses, if SpaceX Tesla and solar, solar city or whatever the solar one is, and slept on people's couches, because he did. He dumped all the money in there. And he was working 130 hours a week and all of this stuff. And I was thinking, Well, that just sounds terrible. Yeah, that sounds absolutely absolutely terrible. And and I, I just didn't think that that was realistic for literally, your any average person. And that doesn't mean that someone like Elon Musk that was able to do that is has more mental strength and more grit or whatever. It probably means that that aspect of his life was quite unhealthy. Yeah. And people that have a more healthy, well rounded aspect of life, probably would choose to not do that. I know, it doesn't mean you're weak or whatever. You'd be like, I don't I don't see that. Well,
Greg Marshall 36:12 and I think the you have to want you have to make agreements with yourself. Right? One thing that over time I've come to, I guess peace with is not necessarily okay, what are you willing to sacrifice for your life? Not for someone else's? Or to impress someone else's right? Meaning? Yeah, we can also you're not weak. If you say you know what? I am, Greg. And that's Elon. Okay. Ilan is wired to want to do that. Greg is not I have no desire to run $3 billion companies, because you know what that means? No free time, a microscope only 24 hours a day. No privacy. That just sounds horrific to me. I would much rather do a whole lot less, and have massive free time, financial freedom, not so much in the public eye, and just be able to live my normal life. We only live once, right? So it's like, I don't want to create a jail for myself. Because a lot of things that people may not realize is like, imagine being someone like Elon, or Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg, where your every move is calculated, you can't go to the movies, and watch a regular you can't go to the grocery store. You can't do a lot of things, right. So there's a price for this. It's not all you know, all good with nothing, you know, being taken away. A lot of your freedoms are taken away. You think Mark Zuckerberg can just walk down the street with no security, go play bass, all people just start shaking hands with people just go to random church and hang out. There's no chance in the world. He could do that. No, he has. He'd have to call his security people and set up all of these schedules and time to do so. So there's a price to be paid. And I think growing up I always thought I have to be willing to pay the biggest price no matter what or that means. I'm weak. Right. And I don't think that's true. Like now that I'm getting older. I'm looking at it like, well, that's actually not true at all. Yeah, it's, you decide what you want to do. Yeah, sacrifice.
Blake Beus 38:32 Yeah, it's, um, you know, I had a ton of thoughts while while you're going on that rant, and I, you know, we'll we're kind of getting long winded. So we'll definitely wrap this up here. Just a second. But I think I have a question for you. Do you know the name of the person who started my MySpace?
Greg Marshall 38:50 Oh, yeah. Tom. Tom, right.
Blake Beus 38:54 Do you want to know why most people don't know Tom's name? Because he sold his business and retired I Yeah. I've never seen like, once. Yeah, he's just like, he he sold his business for I don't know, it was a lot of money at the time over I want to say over $100 million, where he sold MySpace to YouTube. I think they drove it into the ground. But but whatever. But here's the thing is like Tom got to this point. He's like, I think I've made it. Yeah. And I think he does personal projects and things. He's a tinkerer. I wouldn't be surprised if he's out there under some pseudonyms on I don't know, Reddit, or on GitHub writing code, because he likes to do that kind of stuff. But he's not in the public eye. That guy is the genius, right? Like, he did the thing. And the thing is, is, you know, gates, Bezos, Zuckerberg, all of those guys, they all could have done that. Yeah, they all could have done that, but they chose not to. And so I really struggled, like Holding, holding a lot of those people up into high esteem. And even really even listening to their tweets or what they say like ever because I just They are so much different than me my core values are so different that let's say we wave a magic wand and and Blake Beus started Amazon in the 90s. Yeah, I guarantee you, I would have sold that business way sooner and then you would have never heard of me again. And I would have had a peaceful life. They just like dads, I probably would have, yeah, would have done philanthropy or whatever. And there's so many things in my life that I would find much more fulfilling than trying to take a business from being, you know, a $200 million business to being a $200 billion business. I like that doesn't even sound fun to me. So I don't want to like listen to what they have to say all the time, because I just don't think they are even close to sharing my values. Yeah. And
Greg Marshall 40:46 I think, you know, it's funny you brought up Tom because I just remember him because he was my friend for so long my space. And but that's, that's a great example. And I think, you know, overall, pretty much this podcast episode, we wanted to go over something that I think a lot of business and or marketers don't really ever talk about, because it's like kind of that taboo subject, which is looking at your emotions, and kind of really making quality deals and agreements with yourself. Not because you feel like you have to do something because it matters. What matters
Blake Beus 41:24 or you're emulating this person. Yeah, it business that's up here. Like literally put in the work. Trust yourself. Don't over exaggerate the worth of something. Follow the data. Be a stone cold professional. Yeah.
Greg Marshall 41:39 Do it, do it your way, do your way. Find what works for you and do that versus trying to do what you're supposed to do. Right. So I think outside of that, right, we got long, hopefully was wrapping up. This is valuable. So Blake How to Get a hold.
Blake Beus 41:55 I just got to Blake beus.com/sm3 and
Greg Marshall 41:59 get a hold of me at Greg marshall.co and you can book a free strategy session with me. And until next time, we'll
Blake Beus 42:04 catch you guys later.
Unknown Speaker 42:04 Bye bye
Wednesday Nov 02, 2022
Wednesday Nov 02, 2022
Blake Beus 0:00 It's been a couple it's been a couple of weeks. Yeah. You've been traveling. I got COVID. Yeah. And then we're back. But yeah. So you you read something on Facebook's documentation. Yeah.
Greg Marshall 0:14 And I surprised you and I never redacted.
Blake Beus 0:17 Yeah. Because usually their their advice is bad. Yeah. Every time I've talked with a Facebook rep, the advice has been at the grid has not worked and when I've tried it, but so I wanted to pick your brain on what this was, well go over it, it
Greg Marshall 0:32 almost. So basically, what it was, is, in the documentation, I was just making a training video for our clients to help educate them. So when they onboard, they understand what to expect when they're running ads, because a lot of our clients either have run ads a little bit in the past, or none at all. They've just started running businesses, and then know that they need to advertise on social now. So what I looked up was interesting. So the in the documentation, I read it said, you should only have one ad per ad set. What? And I so I had to check a couple times, because I was like, this is facebook.com documentation. And I had never seen this before. And so when I was reading it, I thought, well, this is interesting, because a lot of the accounts that I've had the most success with, I've always used this tactic, but did horizontal scaling, while using the existing post IDs, we even did this with you. Yeah, yeah. And the interesting part was, in the documentation, I should find the video that I created. It said like, the problem, especially when you're running the ad is, the more ad you have, the longer it takes the algorithm to learn, because it has to it just has that many more testing points. Sure. And so what I thought was interesting about that, though, was when I first started that, I was like, okay, that's the opposite of what I've heard, in many ways, cases, where they say when you're testing ads have multiple ads running to see which one works. Give it enough information. So the algorithm has something to work with. Right. And I thought, That's interesting, because that's essentially mostly what I thought and mostly what you hear. Yeah, right. And so this is like a contrarian thought. And the funny thing is, as I started analyzing a lot of the accounts that have scaled really big, we actually used the single post id and did heavy horizontal scaling, with no multiple ads in the ad sets, only one. And so at one point, I remember getting yelled at actually by a client, because they didn't like how I set it up. But it was working, which is I had a campaign. And I had like, 20 ad sets in there. Yeah. But all the same ad. Yeah. And it was running, and it was absolutely crushing it. And I was, but they're like, well, people are gonna get tired of seeing this ad or whatever. And they were overly concerned about this. And so I stopped doing it, right. And then the account starts and not, you know, goes well. And the sad part is this has happened multiple times where clients have this same objection. And then we try it, where you got a bunch of ads in there. And it just, I've just never seen it work when it's like a ton of different ads.
Blake Beus 3:31 First of all, it it always kind of blows my mind when something's working. And the clients like, Oh, I'm afraid it might stop. Yeah, maybe work. So instead, let's turn it off in advance some
Greg Marshall 3:41 all. Let's make sure it doesn't work.
Blake Beus 3:45 Make sure because the most surefire way to make sure your ads don't work is to turn them all off. Yeah. Right. Like, and I just don't get it. Taking a step back with with messaging. I know a lot of people are concerned Well, what if What if people get sick of it, and they get annoyed? And I think that's a very common thing that business owners think they constantly think I don't want to be that annoying advertising person. And we take a step back. I don't know if you've you've probably seen these, but in Utah here, there's this one legal firm that has this phrase, one call that and they've done it on radio, they have have it on billboards. And they've done that since the earliest time. I mean, I moved it to Utah in the 90s. Yeah, they were doing it in the 90s. Yes, same phrase. Yep. And we're recording this in 2022. So we're thinking, you know, this is 25 years of the exact same catchphrase. Yep. And is it annoying? Absolutely.
Greg Marshall 4:48 But do we remember it?
Blake Beus 4:50 Is it working? Absolutely. It's working. You've
Greg Marshall 4:53 moved here. You said at the 90. Yeah. I'm not even from Utah. And I knew that Fraser
Blake Beus 5:00 Uh, it's, it's it works. And and so I think I would probably say first and foremost, just just from a business owner perspective, you're listening this, you're thinking about running your own ads or whatever. If the ad is working, don't worry about being annoying, especially with online ads. If people find it annoying, they can actually go in and say, Don't show me this ad anymore. Yeah, because and they're not going to be your ideal client. Anyway, people have control over seeing those ads online now. And so I wouldn't even worry about that I would worry about is this working. And if you're running an ad, and it stops working, maybe at that point, test a few new creatives, and then scale those new creatives. But if it's working, yep,
Greg Marshall 5:46 let it let it work. Well. And here's here's the other thing. So that was one. And then I'll go into the theory, kind of what we started talking about the theory of why people always do the opposite. But the second thing that I saw on the documentation that I had never read before, like I said, I will be a front. I never really read documentation, I just test to figure things out. But I was just doing this to help the clients was it said, whatever your target CPA is, make sure the budget is 10x, for your daily budget of that CPA. Oh, really? I've never seen a specific number. And I remember in the past, I used to look for that. Yeah, and I've never seen it before, but in the documentation says, multiply your target CPA by 10. And so that your deal so let's
Blake Beus 6:34 let's break this down using like, just kind of regular folks language, CPA, cost per acquisition, what does that actually mean to someone that's just new getting into ads.
Greg Marshall 6:43 So So means every business is trying to do two things, one of two things, when they're running advertising, get a lead. So someone's name, phone number email, or something like that contact info, or get a purchase someone to buy. Now, most people really want that purchase, right? Because that's why we're running ads. So if your target cost per purchase was, let's say, $20, then your daily budget should be $200. Right?
Blake Beus 7:09 So cost per purchase, purchase cost per acquisition, they basically mean the same thing, except for acquisition could include a lead, if that's the your ad objective, what you're trying to get out of the app.
Greg Marshall 7:20 Yep. And so they basically said, that's the recommended recommended daily budget for when you're setting up your advertising, which makes sense. That's what made me kind of go deeper into like, the whole single ad thing, because then I started thinking, well, when we're duplicating ad sets, we're still running more money towards that ad. Yeah. And there must be some level of learning on just an ad level. That it the more you invest in it, the more it knows exactly who put that ad in front of. And so I noticed when we were really scaling at one point, we were spending $1,000 a day with one ad. And it was like, previous, or at least not even at the time. I just knew it was working. So I just kept doing more and more of it. Yeah. But I didn't actually have the answer. Like, why is it that there's a single ad, and it almost didn't matter who I targeted? He just was generating buyers? Yeah. And now I look back at it. And it's like, okay, well, that makes sense. Because that ad is getting funneled so much money into it that it has it just figures out who put that in front
Blake Beus 8:31 of well, not only that, if you think about it, you're also generating some social proof. So we were doing this strategy back with one of my products. We had the one ad you remember this app, it had 135,000 likes on this one app. And so you're seeing this ad and it pops up in your in your feed. And it instantly grabs your attention because it had 135,000 likes. Yeah. And that ad was just absolutely crushed it and that was our number one moneymaker. It was it was and it was a super simple ad. There wasn't anything unique or particularly inventive or creative about that ad. It just it just was solid, straightforward language clear offer. The coloring stood out in Facebook's coloring that was maybe the only really super creative, social proof and had tons of social proof.
Greg Marshall 9:22 And I think I've heard Molly Pittman talk about this before where she says social proof is a very big it's very important for the ads when you're running on Facebook. But you can never like see, like, well, there's no real explanation like why or how or whatever. You just kind of have to come up with your own theories. But when I saw this in the documentation, that's where I thought like, Okay, so there's there's something to that. Yeah, right. And even right now, a couple of clients that are really scaling Well, there's one in my mind right now that she's up 16 100% Since the iOS changes happen, year over year, and she's not doing small numbers, and everyone that's like part of her group that she's, they've all dropped big and sales. And there's one thing that I know about what those people in that group are doing versus what she's doing. And what she's doing is, without giving away the whole formula, what she's doing is getting good at letting them run, and then showing them to more and more people. Yeah, right. And it's gaining stability. And there's obviously other strategies, we're incorporating with that. But to me, that just shows iOS or not. Here's our theory that me and my immediate buyer were talking about yesterday, we started saying what so then why, why is it recommended? Because I'm thinking there's a specific I'm not gonna say their name. But there's a specific credible, so I'm not saying they don't know what to do credible, like Facebook ads expert, right, that would say, Yeah, we test hundreds and 1000s of different angles, and hooks and images and stuff like that. And I just thought like, Well, how do you do that? Because it seems like, I remember trying to do this technique before, for like a week. Yeah. And I saw some of the worst results ever got,
Blake Beus 11:23 I think, if I were to pinpoint it, if someone's a really well known, advertiser with courses and things out there, and they're well known, they have a big following all of these things, I think they're playing in a different sandbox than the rest of us, then people, they're, they're spending less. So for example, if if it's a particularly unique challenge to say, I need to spend $100,000, this month on ad campaigns, yeah. And I need that to be profitable. That's a very different sort of problem with a different set of solutions than someone that's saying, I need to get up to spending $1,000 A day profitably, those are very different problems. And I feel like a lot of times these bigger advertisers that have courses and things, they maybe forget a little bit that there are stages to this, and the solutions are significantly different. But if I'm spending $100,000 a month, and I only have one ad, yeah, depending on the size of your audience, you might not be able to spend $100,000, with one ad, unless you you set your settings in your campaign to show that to people, three, four or five times a day. Yep. Were the default setting, if I remember correctly, cuz it's been a while since I played with these things. The default setting in Facebook specifically is to only show that one ad to someone twice a week or three times a week. I think that's the default.
Greg Marshall 13:01 So the default and there's mold, and it changes. It changes. Yeah, yeah. But But yeah, that so? And that's, that's my point. My point is, what's communicated out there is based off stages. Yeah. Right. And what they're saying, is the message to the market they're talking to, is not incorrect. But a mismatch. Yeah. So they're teaching this, but the people that are doing it are not spending 100,000 hours a month, right, therefore, the vise is going out. It's not applicable, right to the audience that they're actually targeting. Right. Right. And so that's where I'm saying like, because in my mind, I'm talking about the regular business owner, that is going to spend, yeah, maybe $30,000 a month,
Blake Beus 13:54 right. I mean, we kind of gear this towards people. You know, we when we talk about who we're making this podcast for whatever, we're kind of gearing a lot of this towards people that want to get up to spending $1,000 a day, because that's a significant spend for a lot of businesses. And so that's what we get a lot of,
Greg Marshall 14:15 and that's what most businesses, most businesses are there. If you were to look at the whole market and slice it up, I bet it's 80% 85% of the people are not really ever going to exceed spending $30,000 a month, right on campaigns, because they're just not at that level. There's only a select few that are like, you know, they run into the problem. You know, Coca Cola. Yeah. And this, this, this guy that I'm talking about? He ran one of the bigger if not the biggest advertising budgets for tech, a very well known tech,
Blake Beus 14:50 right, so he's playing, he's playing in a different, a different realm, and he's probably really good at that and that's great. But that advice doesn't translate down to someone who's, who's spending three, four or $500 a day. On ads, the the advice is a mismatch. That's a really great way to put it.
Greg Marshall 15:12 And the interesting part about it is I'm looking at so all the people, this is funny, because I've never questioned this. And so I read this, all of the advice that I see out of the marketplace, and I'm sure there's things I'm missing, but the main ones I see is almost like they're only talking to their it's like rich people talking to poor people about rich problem. Does that make sense? So, so that's like, that's like the comparison. So like, for example, someone who just started off their business is not gonna understand, like, you know, my private plane just broke down last week, and I'm really trying to figure out how to, you know, like, not pay as much or lease it this way, or whatever it's like, well, that's not really applicable to most of the people. But I say that as kind of an extreme example, to be funny. But most of the people that are pushing out the content in the content creators that show you how to do that, yeah, they're really almost speaking to a whole different market than what the normal business owner is going to write their business
Blake Beus 16:18 like, especially if it's someone that has consistent content on multiple channels. So let's say, I'll pinpoint Neil Patel, he's been around for a long time. I like a lot of his content. But he has new blog articles every week, multiple times a week has consistent social media posts on basically every single platform out there. He's constantly a guest speaker at different things like that. You can't do that unless you have an entire team behind you. And I don't know how big his team is. But off the top of my head, if I were to guess, I would say his team includes probably 20 full time staff. Yep. And maybe up to 50, maybe maybe even more. And that's fine, great. Literally nothing wrong with that. That's fantastic. But you got to understand that some of the advice he's going to give may not apply to you, when you're setting up your very first Facebook ad campaign. And you're and you're, and you're going to spend $100 a day. Even if he says, hey, if I were to spend $100 a day, this is what I would do. The reality is, is he and his team probably haven't started $100 A Day campaign in years. And so he's been too rich for too long, right? And, and it's fine, like, Look, I'm not saying oh, it's bad, don't listen to anything he says I mean, either, but I'm saying is it's a mismatch for what you're trying to do. And he might be missing the point because he's lived in this realm for so long, that things are so easy to him. But he's also got this entire team behind him and a lot of momentum and name recognition. But if you're starting off, and you don't have name recognition, you don't have, you know, 100,000 million plus followers or whatever your your set of circumstances is, is going to be different, a lot different. And I feel like well, when I first launched my very first product, it was a product on how to post consistently on social media. And I launched it knowing I don't post consistently on social media, and I only had about 150 followers at that time. But I am really good at creating systems. And so I made this system and put it out there. And the first month I sold it, I did $37,000 In sales, which was fantastic to me. But those problems that I faced in that, you know, growing that and everything was significantly different than you know, Neil Neil Patel's problems, he's got great advice, listen to his stuff, read his books, but filter that through, okay, how does this translate to me? When I'm just starting out and take that advice and say, Okay, maybe this is great advice, but not for me right now. Maybe, maybe in a few months, when I've grown things up, or I have a little bit more recognition, or I'm a little bit more advanced or something like that. You have to constantly filter that stuff.
Greg Marshall 19:06 Yep. And I think I'm also thinking of like, for example, you know, the content can Gary Vaynerchuk. Yeah. Or there's another gentleman that does organic, basically, the, the interesting part about so when they talk about content, right? There's several people that have great advice, Gary Vaynerchuk is one Yeah. And a couple other guys that are very credible, and I respect big time, but the advice that they give to maybe the beginner beginner business, it's not going to work as well. For example, one was like, Yeah, I've grown my my business using pure organic content. And then you find out you hear like through an interview, well, how much is that worth? You know, organic content costs? Well, I have a team of editors and a team of this people and I spent $45,000 a month so they need it well done. How does the small business who doesn't even make $45,000 a month. Take that advice at that stage, right? Because they don't even have their their revenues aren't even what you're spending just on editing alone. Yep. Each month and so sometimes it gives not and I'm sure it's not intentional, yeah, it's but it gives the wrong maybe idea or expectation where someone's like, Well, I'm a one man show. And I'm gonna start doing some organic content.
Blake Beus 20:29 It kind of reminds me of, and I don't I want to say this was Warren Buffett that says I'm probably not, but some some person that had done really well for themselves, had basically said, and you see people make fun of this all the time, but basically saying, hey, the younger crowd needs to maybe stop getting avocado toast and buying that $5 latte every day. Yeah, and start hustling so that they can be successful. And it's like, okay, yeah, maybe we need to save some money, avocado toast and lattes, that's 10 bucks a day. 30 days, that's 300 bucks. Maybe I could save 300 bucks by by, you know, making my own avocado toast or whatever. But that's not gonna make me a wealthy Wall Street. $300 is not gonna do it's, it's not it's not right. So that that advice, while maybe that can help me save me a couple 100 bucks a month? That's not going to like set me up for life. Yeah, it's really kind of unhelpful. And yes,
Greg Marshall 21:25 it truly is. Because you do hear that, you know, like, one of my favorite phrases that one of my mentors. I used to say, as you can't shrink yourself to wealth. Ooh, I like that. It's it's very, like, it's powerful. Because really, what he's saying is, you know, saving money and avocado toast isn't gonna make you millions. No, because the because the message implies, if I just don't spend money, then I'll accumulate all of this wealth. But if you think about it, if you don't spend any money, and let's say, let's say you make $3,000. And you figure out a way to live off $100 a month. Are you really gonna get wealthy just saving $2,000 a month for the rest of your life? No, no, no. Because what is that? That's like, $24,000 a year, 10 years, that's 240 is still not a millionaire. And you're living off $100 a month? Yeah, you've
Blake Beus 22:18 got, yeah, you've got you got nothing. Now, if you're bootstrapping, you've got a product, you've got a business, you've got a landing page. And you need you're pretty strapped, and you need a couple 100 bucks to run your first ads, skip some avocado, toast and coffee for a few weeks, and put that, you know, said save up that 10 bucks, and actually put it towards something. Right. That's, that's helpful advice, because that that ad budget could change your life, literally, a good ad campaign, and learning how advertising works, is a skill that can have massive impact on your ability to earn money over time. Yep. And I think so that's what worthwhile
Greg Marshall 23:04 and I think, you know, so kind of this, this episode is going into knowing where you are, at what stage and then doing the activities that are necessary just for that next step. Yeah. Right. Just like, you know, I talked to one of my clients, we refer to Nike. And we said, well, if you ask Nike, now how to market and yes, Nike, well, how did you get started? marketing plans a lot different, right, waited for the marketing plan, in the beginning was selling sneakers out of a truck, and just driving the places and pushing it. That's the marketing strategy. Now that they've grown using marketing strategies, build a $10 million commercial, and put it out there in the whole world see it right. Now that both work. But both are different stages of your business. And so I just found that interesting. It because it stuck out to me, because I like, you know, consistent self education and learning from other people. And it dawned on me when I read that, I was like, Wait a minute. All the advice that you get, though, are from people that are saying to do the exact opposite of what that just says. But then you have to take into context like, but where are they saying At what point of their journey they saying that from? Yeah. Because when you usually hear the examples, when they start asking people like, here's another one, I heard, yeah, we, we ran some ads, you know, we didn't spend that much. And we figured out what ads work the best. And then we started, you know, teaching other people how to do it. And that's what we did every month. And we spent anywhere between 50 to $60,000 a month to figure that out. And you're like, and the communications like, so you just need to figure out what ads weren't really. But you kind of left out you spent $60,000 to figure that out to figure that out. Well, first you need $60,000 to do that. Right?
Blake Beus 24:52 And, and not a lot of businesses have a $60,000 per month ad budget to just figure that out, even if there are Successful business. That's, that's hard. And frankly, I wouldn't even recommend that. Just saying, okay, are we're stepping into ads or very first ad campaign, let's slot 60 grand this month in ads, I wouldn't recommend it, we got to figure a few things out. So let's, let's circle back to kind of the initial talking point, a one ad in an ad set, pair that with a CPA of whatever, 10x. And then you want a 10x that as your daily budget? Yes, that's what it says. So let's say I haven't run any ads. I don't know what creatives work. I don't know what audiences are work work. But let's assume that I know how to set up ads. How would I go from there to having one ad, in a campaign scaling horizontally? And like, what what would you be your process to go from? No ads to? I've got a winning ad. And I'm running one ad. And I'm scale.
Greg Marshall 26:00 So once again, I think there's context left out even in the documentation. Yeah, I think they, the assumption in the documentation is you have figured out what ad,
Blake Beus 26:10 you figured out a creative and you figured out an audience match for that creative,
Greg Marshall 26:14 right. So I think that's like, the small details left out. So you know, start there, right? I would say, and you're not actually done. In fact, just yesterday, my mind, I'm thinking, I've been using this process for this one client, and it's worked out beautifully. You can start off as low as five $10 A day still optimize for what you want. Understand, you're not going to get these huge results from it, you're just trying to prove proof of concept with that accurate. Let's say you create a campaign, you create an ad set targeting that you think would work the best based on the ad, and you run one ad, and you run it for a week, you see if it ends up getting either leads or sales. If it gets you a couple of leads, or sales, and you look at the click through rates and all that it kind of looks like it has promise, then take that post idea, that particular ad and then now moving into trying to scale it up.
Blake Beus 27:08 Okay, that's, that's basically, you got to run some tests. And if you have, if you have the budget, you can maybe run a few $10 a day with maybe some different audiences, or maybe a couple of ad creatives, and you're running 30 bucks a day on three, yep, three campaigns to just kind of see, which is the best audience to add to offer fit. Yep, focusing on alignment, and the metrics that can show you the alignment, like click through rates CPMs, which is your cost per 1000 impressions,
Greg Marshall 27:40 add to cart carts, whatever any type of high level metric that tells you you're on the right path. But just
Blake Beus 27:46 don't expect at that budgets that you're going to see a 3x 4x 5x return because, as we've talked about a lot on the show with algorithms, you've got to feed a lot of data into the algorithm in order to get some significantly significant results. But you can run these, run these ads and say, Okay, I'm gonna slot a few 100 bucks to testing this out whether it gets some sales or not, I'm going to come up the other side of this with some knowledge about which target which targeting and audiences seemed to work best and which ad worked best. Now I can combine that together, and run it and run another test and then see if that's good to scale.
Greg Marshall 28:19 And that's, you know, and it's funny, because as we talked about this, in my mind, I can see a lot of these campaigns where reviews the structure, unintentionally. So it's not like I knew from some level documentation, some that it worked, I just was figuring out that it was working, and was just doing more of it now. But now after reading that, it starts to make a little bit more sense to me. Now why it was written, I actually knew the why. So the theory that we actually talked about today. The other thing that I think is important is if you get the recommendation of running like a bunch of different ads, sometimes that can cause you to make bad ads. Yeah. And this is where I mean, it's almost lazier, because although you're doing you know, technically more, you're not putting the necessary thought of how do I get the audience hooked? Yeah, because you have the, like, luxury, I guess that's what we call the luxury of like, I'm not paying a magazine or TV or whatever, you know, 20 grand is gonna show one ad, you pay a lot more attention what you're gonna say, yeah, when you do that, versus on Facebook, I can just spend, you know, 100 bucks, throw out a bunch of stuff and just see what works, right. And I think it would be in our best interest to just pretend like you're buying ads, to where like you're doing direct mail piece, like once you submit it, there's no changes. And it just, it's gonna go out there, the money you spend is spent. And now you have to hope that you get the results that you want. You think a little bit differently. Yeah, as far as like Well, let me make sure my that hook is good. Put a bit more effort into that. Yeah. And I think that part can't hit, you know, I don't know, I feel like that part maybe has gone away. Because we have the luxuries of technology where you can do so many things and test where you can almost use testing as a way to not think through what you're doing. Yeah. Well,
Blake Beus 30:20 I think it and we've talked about this before, we've had multiple podcasts recently on messaging. Yep. And with iOS 14, and now 15. And Google has announced that they're going to have an advertiser sandbox, where they're going to start blocking third party tracking on Android phones. The messaging, the psychology of the messaging, your ad hooks, your creatives, that part is going to continually become more and more and more important. And you're going to need to spend more time learning how to write good ad, copy how to write a good video script. And it doesn't have to be sophisticated, but it has to speak to your target audience. And you're going to want to spend more time studying ad messaging, and maybe looking back at the old school ad copywriters, Dan Kennedy, greatest of all time, plugged into that guy. And studying that, that kind of stuff, and focusing on your messaging, and then looking at the advice that is aligned with what stage you are in your advertising journey.
Greg Marshall 31:28 Well, and the other thing, I think that you'll want to spend more time on this, this is like how it makes you feel like you're going back to old school. researching your market. Yeah, right. Like the other thing that you kind of, can get almost lazy with because of technology is and algorithms do everything for you almost. It's almost like your mom does everything for you. And then one day, you're left alone. They're like, well, you need to clean your house wash it is no insurance, know what to do. And this happens. And you're kind of like, what, yeah, that basically that's my scenario, and I'm 70 years old. What am I supposed to do? Right? Yep. It's almost the same with algorithms, right? They have like, spoon fed us this whole time. And now, as they start to take away these things, you have to now you figure out like, okay, so I can't overly rely just on all these targeting options. I have to like, now know what I'm doing. And I
Blake Beus 32:20 think it's a good thing. I think it's a really good thing. First of all, I've it's weird coming from someone who helps advertisers, but I'm a big privacy advocate online, I feel like we need definitely more of that. And these are moves towards more online privacy. Yep. And then the second thing is, I think it's weeding out. A lot of the people that are gaming the system that are that are flash, you know, flash by night stealing ad copy, doing doing whatever, knowingly shady things, it's filtering those people out and making it so that the people that are passionate about their product, their audience, advertising, this kind of stuff, are the people that are going to shine and the other people that were just lazy and they knew a couple of tips and tricks to game the algorithm are going to go well. So I think ultimately, this is a good move, but it's changed and we you know, you raised
Greg Marshall 33:09 you just reminded me so I don't know if maybe my algorithm hasn't hit or what but I haven't seen any luck of those like guru type ads that I used to see all the time. Oh, really? Like I there's one guy but he probably actually knows what he's doing. Right? We'll just say his name Dan Henry. Oh, yeah, but he's
Unknown Speaker 33:31 legit I don't see his stuff anymore.
Greg Marshall 33:33 I see a lyric lyric well yeah, lyric I see I see his stuff a lot so he's great. I just like he just seems to be very excited. But But what I mean is like the pool has shrank like more than people that act like you know that they've actually made money you still see them but you don't see the almost like the no name or random people you're like who's who these guys?
Blake Beus 34:00 It was like what two three years ago you would see also I would call them dude printers Yeah, these guys that are just like standing in front of a Lamborghini they probably rent it and yeah, I'm going to show you how to do all this it's super easy Amazon FBA business was was a big one. I don't see I don't see many. I don't see very many of those anymore. I see. I still see a few of the quote gurus out there, but they're probably a bit more knowledgeable understanding Dan Henry his ad copy while some people I think maybe find him a little irritating. Yeah, I feel like his ad copy and his video scripts always get me sucked in. Yeah, I think he's does a really good job with the content in his ads. And I think he's done a really good with that for a long time. And I think that's maybe why he's still rocking it.
Greg Marshall 34:50 Well, that's why I said you see the same like, I've seen a Laird for years now. You know, I feel like I know, you know, I've seen some I
Unknown Speaker 34:57 know I feel like if I saw him on the street, choleric who was Gonna
Greg Marshall 35:00 go to my end.
Blake Beus 35:01 I know we've talked about this before we'll we'll sign off after this but one of my favorites with a lyric, because he kind of follows you all over. But it's not super irritating either, but I remember on one he's like, Oh, but you didn't think you'd see me. That's my favorite. And it was like a new retargeting ad. And I thought it was hilarious.
Greg Marshall 35:19 But But I think he has a true passion for I think marketing and stuff. And so that's why I think, at least for me, I don't get annoyed because I'm like, Hey, he's trying new things. He's always trying to get better. And so how can you not like that? Yeah.
Blake Beus 35:33 All right, let's, let's, let's wrap this up. Greg. How can people get in touch
Greg Marshall 35:36 with you, Greg marshall.com. And you can book a free strategy session. And me,
Blake Beus 35:40 Blake. beus.com/sm, three, four. The best way to get in touch with me.
Greg Marshall 35:46 Yeah. So until next time, we'll talk to you guys later. Bye.
Wednesday Oct 26, 2022
Wednesday Oct 26, 2022
Blake Beus 0:00 scaling like everybody, every client there, they always get nervous. Yeah, anxiety when they when it comes to scaling, right? So you found something that works. You're spending maybe 100 bucks a day or something. And now you're telling them alright, let's do 200. Let's do 300. Let's, yes, let's do this. And then they have a ton of questions as they do do that. So what happens? Yeah,
Greg Marshall 0:22 so, and it's normal to be nervous. I don't think that's abnormal at all right? Right. Because no one wants to like spend more money and risk losing. So typically, what happens? So number one, scaling, all that really means is do more, right, get more sales than you're currently getting, or more leads that you're currently getting. And typically, what happens? So here's usually the concern or the misconception of scaling. So let's say something is working really well, like $50 a day, right? Really, really low spent, and you're getting a good return. Let's say you're getting a four return on adspend. No, nice, right? So let's, let's just pretend that's happening now, if you haven't scaled before, or you're new to it, and I have made this mistake, okay. So I'm not like excluding myself, it is very easy to believe as well, if I spent 50, why don't I just spent $5,000, and I should get the exact same return of what I'm currently getting now of a Forex, right? Unfortunately, that is not how it works. And it pretty much I don't want to say it's impossible, but close to impossible to keeping maintaining that ratio that return as you spend more. And the reason for that, and Blake can probably attest to this is the audience, right? So the way these algorithms work, is when you're spending low spend, you're like forcing the algorithm to work harder to find that little pocket. That's a perfect match for your offer. But then what happens when you expand that audience?
Blake Beus 2:01 You will you start, you start having to boil over into the the people that aren't perfect for the fit, and that's fine. Yep. There's more of those. And that's a good thing. Yep. Because there's, that's a much, much, much bigger audience. But instead of finding the people that are ready, right now, you're finding maybe people that are going to be ready, tomorrow, next week, or even a few or even in a few weeks, or maybe the offer is not exactly what they need. And they're comparing a couple of alternatives. And it takes them some time to make a decision. But all of that drives your costs up. Yep. And so people, in my experience, people start seeing the cost per acquisition go up, yep. Which means their row as return on adspend starts coming down, and they start panicking because they think this is a trend, that's eventually going to mean, I'm losing money. So I'm spending all this money and I'm losing money. But in reality is a good thing.
Greg Marshall 3:04 Yep, in my eyes anyway. Well, and one of the things you have to keep in mind is, in my experience, okay, so I'm just speaking, in my experience, when you scale you actually, so people, I think incorrectly focus on the wrong part of the scale. And you should be thinking about the second sale, you're gonna give them the upsell, how many more orders they can make, and really focusing your energy on that. Not the the advertising part. Because it's inevitable that the cost per purchase, and the row ads is going to go down, the more you spend, but if you if you only focus on the advertising part, what's going to happen is you're going to get scared every single time it goes up, and you're going to retract or, you know, go back to what you were doing. And you're not ever going to be able to grow that and get more customers that you're looking for. And so that's the mistake that I see constantly is when they're trying to scale going, what worked out for x and 50. How do we make it work at $5,000 a day for x? Let's just keep looking at the ads over and over and over again, which is actually the wrong place to be work. You actually should be working on how do I increase the average order value or get them to buy sooner or get them to buy more often. That's how we
Blake Beus 4:23 come up with more offers, like follow up offers, they bought this one thing, what's the next thing they should do? It was thing after that was the thing after that, if you have two or three layers of different offers, oftentimes they're going up in price. Exactly. Then you you actually have legitimate business there.
Greg Marshall 4:41 Well, the advertising tends to work out right then you're not as concerned. But there is a transition where you have to almost practice going through this. Because every single time I've gotten I mean, I can't think of many phone calls and conversations of this sense of panic. Yeah, that scaling brings to the business owner, once again, not saying it's not warranted. It's just because you start seeing, Oh, man, I'm spending $1,000 A day 2000. And what makes it scary? Okay, this is a psychological game. What makes it scarier is when you keep seeing the receipts from Facebook or Google or any platform, hitting your account, reminding you how much is going out it almost couple times a day, yeah, when you're scaling, you're seeing your account being hit over and over and over and over again, one day, and that. So without looking at revenue, the client will just keep seeing these, because a lot of them have notifications set up when they get like a spend on their credit card or something like that. And so when you're, when you're spending $2,000 a day, which we've we've been,
Blake Beus 5:51 and I think Facebook the most you can have it set out and unless you have an account, like a big account with them or something is to charge you every $1,000. So you're gonna see $1,000 purchase twice a day. And most people were thinking, Ah, and I'll spend 1000s of dollars, you know, $1,000 Twice a day on anything. And you see that, but then you don't see the revenue numbers come in. Yep. And, and so it's easy to panic. Well, and I've been there, and
Greg Marshall 6:18 I think it's totally normal. Yeah, we're not, we're not like downplaying, like, you should just let it happen and not be concerned or worried. We just want to prep you on, this is what will happen and make sure you This is like a psychological thing, to where you make sure you're not turning things off. Because I've had this happen before they are getting hit, we've got up to $3,000 a day, at at their threshold was $900. So that's three or maybe sometimes four transactions on Facebook a day. And what ends up happening is their return was working, everything is working, the numbers are working out. Nothing's really changed. But they shut it down, turn it off, turn it off. We're spending way too much. We gotta like reassess, yeah. And they lose that momentum that they're building. And they're constantly starting and stopping, not because of logistics, or looking at their numbers to see if it's working. But just because of the fear of seeing anxiety, the money come out over and over and over. And
Blake Beus 7:17 that's, that's real. And it's normal. I think about it this way. So a few years ago, I got into my wife bought me smoker, and I got into smoking, you know, briskets. Yeah. And pork butts and things like that. And there's a saying for anybody that that that gets into this. If you're looking you're not cooking. Yeah. And I remember the first time I cooked something that was long, it was gonna take 16 hours. Yep. So I put it in the night before. I didn't sleep that night, I have thermometer in there I will. And I had the thresholds on the temperature set. so close that it was going off every half hour, and I'll go out and look at it and tweak things. But every time you lift the lid, the temperatures, drop, drop and change. And it turned out in there. But now, when I do that same cook, I get the get everything up to temperature, I throw the meat on I go to bed. Yep. And it is what it is in the morning. And it turns out great. But if you're looking, if I keep tweaking, you, you lose, you lose all the heat. Yep. Right. Yeah. And so you're constantly cooling things down and resetting the algorithm benefits and, and things along those lines. And so I'm not saying that doesn't mean, you can't turn things off. But as part of a proper scaling campaign, you shouldn't really have these surprises. Because you're not gonna go from 50 to 5000. Overnight. Yeah, you're gonna kind of you're gonna make some incremental changes. And then you'll pause, not necessarily campaigns, but you'll pause scaling for a minute, sometimes if something doesn't seem quite right, and you'll massage at that point, but you don't want to keep just flipping things on and off swapping out things all the time. Because you're you're gonna stop cooking at that point.
Greg Marshall 8:57 Well, that's a recipe. That's a great analogy, because that is true, right? When you're smoking things. What we're really saying is, it's more about trust. Yeah, trusting the process. More so than trying to control too many things that ultimately because you're trying to control them makes it worse. Right? Not because of the intent that you have the right intent, I want to make sure everything works. But sometimes you have to let things run. And you know, they gotta cook, you gotta you gotta let them cook and you don't let it cook. You're gonna end up having not so good. Finished product and I think scaling is one of those. So here's, here's the base what you want to do number one, if you want to scale you should months before start mentally prepping and preparing what you will, how you, you will behave when these situations happen. I think it'd be very helpful because if you plan out mentally like okay, if I'm spending this much What are my by my logical cutoff points? And only measure of that and nothing else? You have to remove the emotion when it comes to so I recommend saying, what's the maximum amount of money that I will spend? And what does that ratio have to look before and a timeframe, how, you know, seven days or 14 days before I make this judgment call, so that when you go in, you're only you're doing it in a non emotional way. And you're just saying, if I spent $1,000, and I don't get at least $2,000 back and it's like, 1500, then I'll cut it off, right? Or if I spend $5,000, and I don't get 10,000. Back, I'll cut it off having specific numbers that you can just look at, and just say, Okay, I hit my threshold. And what typically helps I will have clients do this drill is to go if you were to spend, what X amount of dollars, you're not losing all the spend, right? That's the part that people like our minds trickers. So if you spent $1,000, and you get 1800 in sales, you didn't lose $1,000. Right, you may have just lost a couple 100. Yeah, based on whatever business model, and that's, that's the thing, like think about it that way. It's it's hard to say, Oh, we
Blake Beus 11:22 lost money. If I spent $1,000. And I only sold $950 with the product. I lost 50 bucks, and it's not even a lost, you learned a lot and gained a bunch of customers. Yep. Right, you gained a bunch of people on your email list and everything. You can't keep doing that, because you're gonna run into some cash, cash crunch problems. But if you have a day like that, that's not the end of the world, because I've blown $50 In a day on stupid stuff before. And didn't get any customers out of it. Because it was 50 bucks on I don't know, I don't know, food or something. I mean, it's cool toy at best bought by or something and then didn't make me any money back. I didn't get any customers or anything. So think about it that way. You are going to have some fluctuations. You can't have consistent days where you're under Yeah, where you row as is under one. Yep. But if you have a single day like that, but all of your other days are good. That's not time to panic. That doesn't mean things are going south. That means I don't know, maybe there was a big news story that day. Or maybe something happened in the lives of a lot of your your audiences, like those things happen if you had I mean, if you had a massive news story, like a war started or something like that the day Russia invaded Ukraine, I guarantee you everybody's ad spent was way less effective that day. Oh, yeah. Then then or other days?
Greg Marshall 12:48 Recession? Yeah, right, the talk of a recession. People cannot even I mean, everyone gets impacted by that. But some people may not even really have to worry about that. But just the fear that comes now we're going into recession will make people shrink. Right, right. You know, maybe I shouldn't buy that even though I can't afford it. Yeah, it's a natural, like knee jerk reaction, which, you know, I saw quite a bit with buyer behavior for like two weeks when it's just being pumped on the news every day, gas prices to all time high. The cost of meat is this and the cost of food design, and everything's gone up, you could see a shift in consumer behavior for a couple of weeks. But now, it seems like people are realizing oh, it's, it's hard to live, it's okay.
Blake Beus 13:35 There's, there's all there's always fluctuations. And oftentimes, like with a little bit of creative thinking, without turning off your campaigns, you could use those new stories, or use those concepts in some new ad creative and see how that works, right? There's lots of ways you can kind of manage that, but you're not losing money, per se, if you spend $1,000, and you only made 950 back, you gained a bunch of people qualified people for your email list for your next product. And that's not really a bad thing. Obviously, we you want to be profitable all the time. But if you have one of those days,
Greg Marshall 14:07 I'm glad you brought that up too, because the other almost unrealistic expectation is that every single day will have the exact same ratio of returns, which that's why I typically recommend look at seven days minimum, but more like 14 or maybe even a month to let it all kind of average out and go, What was our return? Right? Because if you do it day by day, what's going to happen is maybe one day at 5x And you're like, This is unbelievable. Then the next day dew point eight, you're like the sky is falling and you just turn it off. But if you just let it run and then another day three and others two and a half and others for you average that all out. It's actually a pretty solid campaign. But if you're looking at it like the stock market like your day trader and your cost is saying, Oh, we just lost money in the last hour. It's you're not going to get anywhere, because you're going to constantly starting and stopping. And that's not how it works,
Blake Beus 15:08 right? And I would tell you if you're going to put effort into something like if you have this nervous energy, and this is like stressful for you, and you're going to, like put the effort into coming up with a next product. Yep, that once they've purchased this offer, yep. What's the next thing, and that next thing doesn't have to be a big step up in price it can be. But it could be just a little mini add on that you can follow up with a quick email campaign, that will make you more money than trying to watch your ad spend hour by hour, minute by minute, and keeping an eye on all of that stuff. So put your effort into that. I would also look at shifting gears just a little bit. I think a lot of people look at the wrong numbers, advertisers, media buyers, we talk a lot about cost per acquisition row as return on adspend CPMs. Those are important metrics. But as you scale the the way those metrics should be interpreted changes. And so what I think a lot of people should look at is instead of looking at those metrics, because those metrics will get worse as you scale. Because they have to get worse as you scale. But I would look at the total profit amount. Yeah, not margin, not percentage amount, but like total profit amount. So for example, let's just say I'm spending $10,000 a month, and I'm making $10,000 a month on that ad spend. And so that's my row, as is a 2x. And that's great. But next month, we spend $1,500. And I make, you know, 12,000 13,000, on profit, my row as is less Yep. But the actual profit in the bank is more, and your overhead didn't go up other than that ad spend, it's not like you had to hire new staff to deliver or whatever, you just have that ad spin. So your actual profit dollar amount is more. And I would like to make $12,000 in profit, more than I would like to make $10,000 in profit, that's a bigger number. And so you want to kind of look at that, as well. And if you're and then you also gotta realize that's just the first part of your marketing machine. And we've talked about this several times, but you have email follow ups you have next offers, you have all of these different things. Where as we focus on this one piece, because that's where everybody gets started. And that's fine. But when you want to start building out the full business, the marketing machine, you have these other products, these other offers, more bundles, more promotions, holiday promotions, all of those things. And putting effort into those things are what take your $12,000 a month on your 15k ad spend and turn that into $24,000 a month profit on the 15k ad spend is that extra stuff that you're you're adding on because the profit margins on those things is significantly higher, because you didn't have to acquire through paid ads, you've already acquired them, you've already spent the money to acquire the customer you have
Greg Marshall 18:13 now. So that's the secret that a lot of the people out there that are scaling and scale big. That's what they're actually focusing most of their effort on. Because I've heard this before from clients like yeah, I talked to this one guy. And he you know, he he spent X amount of dollars and got a gigantic return right sounds like some outsize return. Did you go to find out? Well, he sent emails, and he's hitting a huge list of people that he already acquired. So that's why he's able to get such a outsized return, because he tells me already bought those cars. Yes. And so the numbers are gonna be skewed on that. And so you have to think that's how they're doing it. They're not, there's no secret way that you can unlock, you know, like a video game, or like a cheat code where you can go, Alright, there's a secret audience out there that if I just tap into it, I'll be able to get 1500 row as some that I'm doing unlimited. And if I can just find the pot of gold, that at my life will be saved. just doesn't work that way, no
Blake Beus 19:22 matter how many no matter how many, just this one quick tip or this secret or how many, you know, whatever secrets books, you buy it, those are hooks to get you to buy. But But yeah, just there's no magic code to that. And the people that are saying they have this massive row as they're using that as a hook to kind of get you in. Fine. But oftentimes, I was watching one where the person said, Oh, the row as was, I don't know. 10,000 Yeah. And when I dug into the story a little bit, they will Were running some ads to a small geographic area to get people to come to a seminar to buy condos in a new condo complex. Yeah. And so they needed, you know, they had 100 people in the room, they, they they ran ads, maybe they only ran $1,500 in ADS. Yeah. And they sell to condos. And they're low as $1,500 to a million because they're $500,000 condos. My row as was crazy. Here's the secret, but they
Greg Marshall 20:28 don't like, yeah, most people aren't selling condos.
Blake Beus 20:31 And that's not a pure row as because there's all this overhead and selling condos. Like, there's all of these construction costs and real real trophies, it's just not accurate.
Greg Marshall 20:42 So we recommend, build a business. Don't listen, anyone who says you're gonna get some outsized returns, it's not going to happen. You can get very solid returns from the business fundamentals, which is, of course, what most people do not want to hear. Just like exercise and eating healthy. There's no secret, there's no nothing. It's just basic fundamentals, you just got to do the same thing when you're building your business. So we really apologize to laying down that there isn't some secret trick or hack to get everyone. But if you just stick with the process, you can have a very successful business, trust me. Amazon is not hacking the system with some secret ad campaign. They've got a very strong business model. That's a well thought out from the acquisition all the way to fulfillment to return customers. If they do it, you probably should do
Blake Beus 21:37 well, and they didn't do that overnight, exact, right? Like it's gonna take you some time to get there. They built out they're still building out big sections of their fulfillment arm of the business. Right? And so you build those parts and you optimize those parts as you go. That's why it's called building a business. But anyway, let's wrap this up. Greg, how can people get in touch with you,
Greg Marshall 21:56 Greg marshall.co, and you can book a free strategy session. What about
Blake Beus 22:00 Blake beus.com/sm? Three is the best way to get in touch with me.
Greg Marshall 22:04 All right. Until next time, I'll talk to you later. Okay, bye.
Unknown Speaker 22:06 Bye.