Friday Jul 08, 2022

Offline data is still king and queen of paid advertising EP-033

We do this every time we talk about stuff, we just start nerding out before we even turn the camera on and start recording the podcast. And so today you were just talking about you've been testing eight or nine different accounts. Yes. With an old school strategy. Yes. It and it's not new. No, it's, it's, it needs to happen. Yeah, right. Off offline events, specifically for Facebook, Google does this a little bit different, but what we're gonna be talking about Facebook today, uploading offline events to tell, you know, tell everyone out there what that means.

Greg Marshall  0:33  
Yeah, essentially what you're doing especially like if you have a Shopify store, but you can do it for WooCommerce, or whatever is any whenever you you have your your buyers on your website, you would download your buyer list or export your orders. And then you would upload that information back into the offline events manager, which can be found in the Events Manager, you just have to create a new offline events account, super easy, and then attach it to your ad account. But what you do is you upload that information, and you just map the data, which is a fancy way of saying, just make sure each column is named correctly. So that when you upload the CSV file, or the Excel sheet, or whatever, it can then understand what it is it should be looking for. Okay. And with this, this has helped tremendously on getting better information and data back into the ad accounts. Because on the ads manager, if you don't upload, it seems like it misses a lot of the purchases, right. And I have a specific account that essentially only does runs ads to sell their product. So this is how I'm using it to measure to make sure that it's accurate. Basically, it's like its own case study, right. And so far, so good. It seems like it does catch all the purchases, where as before he was the challenge that I would run into, we would run the ads. And we know this is the only source of traffic. And you would look into the ad account. But it would say like, you only got a few purchases off this ad, even though we may have had 10 or 15 of this exact product. And we're like, and we know it's not organic traffic, right? Because this is a brand new shirt, we haven't even promoted it anywhere yet. Right? So the only way they could have purchased it was through the

Blake Beus  2:20  
app, right? So it's a brand new, this particular thing and brand new product, whatever, there's no SEO no zero for that, for that product, no email campaigns going after that product, no organic social media, whatever, for that product, it's a new product, you run ads for it. And in the back system, you're seeing, you know, 1020 purchases, but um, ads, you're seeing three for purchases, and you know, those purchases had to come from the ad because that's the only source of traffic for that page. Exactly. And so you start uploading off yeah, conversion, we start

Greg Marshall  2:51  
uploading off offline conversions. And what happens is, all that data gets fed back into the account. And it starts to show and match up with the amount of sales we actually have. And it breaks down per ad, which ad was doing it. Now the challenge that we had before uploading this was you will look at the cost for purchases if you had 10 sales. But Facebook Ads Manager on the front end is only showing like three, right? Well, your cost of purchase seems like it's outrageous, right? Even though your ad spend to revenue match what you need, right. And the challenge with that is you become tempted to turn off the the campaigns just because the front end numbers are like oh, man, those I mean cost per purchase $48. That doesn't make any sense.

Blake Beus  3:36  
So you're ending up turning off an ad that's actually working? Correct. Facebook's reporting? Yep. That is, is inaccurate. Exactly. Right. And it's tough to scale. Because

Greg Marshall  3:46  
if no, even though your gut is telling you that this is happening, it's still like, you just don't feel as confident, right? Making the decision of scaling something when it's showing when the numbers themselves on the ads manager reporting are completely off. Well,

Blake Beus  4:03  
it's hard. You gotta you gotta, you gotta trust your gut over trusting Bismack.

Greg Marshall  4:07  
Yeah, exactly. That's good.

Blake Beus  4:11  
But there's also an actual problem with that. Because if the ad account isn't tracking those sales, yeah, then algorithmically. They're going to, it's not going to keep performing, even though in the real world it is performing because the, those numbers do reflect what the ad account algorithm thinks it's happening. Yep. And so they know you're selling this product for $30. And if if they're only showing, you know, three purchases when you actually had 20. Yep, they're assuming that your cost per purchase is way more than your actual product. So then you lose, you think you're losing and so they're thinking, well, this is just a terrible product. Let's give it to the other things that are performing. So even though you know this ad is working, it's not going to scale well. Yep. Because you've got to fix the algorithm data problem. Yep. So you're uploading these offline conversions. And I know in the past, I've done this in the past in the past, we would either get duplicate duplicate conversions, it would over report revenue, or it would miss miss. It would tie it to the wrong campaign, or the wrong ad account and everything like that. But you were saying, that's, well, that's still an issue. Yes. But it seems to get resolved over time. Like check. Yeah, tell me more about what you're saying there.

Greg Marshall  5:30  
So right now, and this has just been, you know, from just staring at this over and over and over again, to see if this is a way that I can utilize. So it seems like initially, there may be double reporting. Right. But I don't know of Facebook, because when you upload the events, especially when you first set up, it says, In the I don't know the captions, wherever the disclaimer, it says that the duplicate, right, you know, anything that was maybe tracked on the front end and the back end, and it takes it out, right. And so initially, when I tried it, it seemed like it was counting as two. But then I look back at it, and it seems like the values went down. Like they normalized, like somehow they went in and cleaned it up so that it's not over.

Blake Beus  6:20  
Okay, so what I'm understanding what you say is, clarify, if I'm wrong, what I'm understanding is, when you initially make that upload, it takes, I don't know, 30 minutes to an hour to turn through the offline data and attribute things. And then you can hop into ads manager, and it will show you how it did. Yep. So at first, it's still showing over reporting revenue and over reporting purchases. But what you're saying then is maybe after a few days, or after a week, you go look at that same time period, it seems to be much closer to reality. Yeah. So it's like it's over reporting for a bit, and then it normalizes over here, I'm in the DT. It's almost like the deduplication happens over a 72 hour period or a five day period, whereas the revenue reporting is almost instantaneous. After it does,

Greg Marshall  7:12  
yes, yes. So that's exactly what I'm saying. So that's what I've been really watching. To see if that is the case, if it actually is deduplicating. Over time, so that it is accurate. Because then if that's the case, then you would just if as long as you use the best practices that it says to use is as close to the purchase as possible, upload the data. So really, they say that, yeah, so I remember reading it somewhere, I think is when you first set it up, it says make sure to put the information as close to the purchase as possible, meaning, don't wait three weeks to upload your last three weeks of purchases and upload it because then your match rate will not be as good. We've been using daily. So every single morning, uploading the purchases from the day before, that seems to be working. And it seems to make it a little more accurate. And it's just given us better overall, like under at least understanding of what is working and what isn't because many times I've talked with clients, and they've, in fact, there's another client that I'm thinking of that said this, whatever ad you have running right now is working really well. And then when I looked in the ads manager, the purchase, the cost per purchase were like really high. But in their Shopify account, they were doing really well, like the ratio that I wanted from ad spend to revenue was 50% less than what I typically want, right? So like meaning, I typically want the ad cost to be especially for a product 30% or less of revenue. Okay, make sense? I don't want to ever spend more than 30%.

Blake Beus  8:51  
Yeah, with a physical product or a physical digital, you got, you got a little more

Greg Marshall  8:55  
flexible, but physical products, you have to, you know, take into account costs of product and shipping. And I never want to spend more than 30%. They were spending like it was a 15%. So it was 50% less than the maximum that I would even want to spend. Okay, which means it was like imperfect range. But the ads manager from what was being reported was way off, compared to what was in their Shopify. So that's why I was like, and there's got to be a way to figure out like, because it's you feel like you're almost blind making decisions that way, interest of your life. Yeah. So and the other thing we've talked about is if, if the ad account is only getting so little data, then it can't optimize as fast. So by uploading these offline conversions, and they imagine it essentially speeds up the optimization. That's where I found right that's my theory on why every single account that we're using this on, it has improved. Yeah, like their sales numbers have improved without massive increases and but

Blake Beus  9:57  
yeah, so I mean, I've gotten so many questions about this because, again, this is not a new strategy. Yeah. But I feel like people, media buyers, whatever, kind of forget about some of these these it's a tedious strategy. It's it's not. It's not cool. It's not sexy. It's not like this. But my first question is, what what data are you uploading? Right? I know you're you're using this with a lot of Shopify stores, you can use this without any any, any checkout process whatsoever. You can even use this for lead conversions that are don't have $1 amount attached to it. But But what data are you uploading in this CSV file? And what do you think is the most like, what is the critical kind of data for sure,

Greg Marshall  10:43  
so I think the most important date, alright, this is what we're upload, and then I'll tell you what I think is most important. So we're uploading first name, last name, order ID, time it was purchased, the value associated with that purchase. And then the city, state country and everything else that I can map, email address, email address, phone number, if you if you're gathering up if you have that, like literally everything as much as you can. And then I upload that, and then it goes as and matches based off. But the most important thing that I think that makes it more accurate, unless you're doing it every single day, the time purchase. That's what I think is the most valuable data set in their time is the time that makes a purchase. That makes sense, because there's lots of ways for

Blake Beus  11:32  
the data ball to get dropped, and then the attribution data ball to get dropped. But a point in time only happens once. And unless you're doing 10s of 1000s of orders every hour. The odds are that the time of purchase is extremely unique to that one event that Facebook knows happened, but maybe doesn't know

Greg Marshall  11:53  
who that was exactly, exact. Okay, so that's what I think is helping the matching of all this kind of in my mind, my thought process is these offline advances, whatever the pixel doesn't get on the front end, by uploading their first last name, email, and most importantly, the time of purchase, and what they purchased like the dollar amount, that's where I think they're able to go and backtrack and go this individual was on this time. This is the email associated with them. They did click on an ad they did see this. That's That's my theory on what they're doing. Yeah. Is that Is that what you think? You're more? You're more of the data guy that understands all this?

Blake Beus  12:34  
Yeah, I would, I would definitely agree with you on that, like, I'm just thinking through how that would work from a data matching perspective has taking a big step back, let's just look at the flow. I'm scrolling through and I see one of the ads for for, you know, one of your clients, and I click on it inside of Facebook's app on my phone. Facebook knows exactly who I am. And the exact time that I click on that ad, yep, from there, the data starts to get kind of fuzzy, because we're going over to someone's website, if have iOS 14 14.5, or any of those others, data tracking starts to get kind of fuzzy and kind of mushy, but they know for a fact who I am. And when I clicked that ad, what ad I clicked on what campaign that came from, and what ad group that was from has its own platform. It's on platform and they know all of that data. But then once I move past that point, that data starts to get a little fuzzy, there may be only getting certain bits and pieces, there may be there may be getting anonymized some anonymized data or hashed data from the pixels sent back to their servers. But they know that I clicked on that. And they kind of know what time those other events are happening. So if I click on this, and 10 seconds later, there's an Add to Cart event with a couple of other identifiers, ie a browser that's similar to the browser on my phone, the operating system, homophone that's similar to that they, they start being able to piece those things back together, but maybe the ball gets dropped on the purchase event or something like that. So when you're uploading a purchase event time, with a name, and an email address, and $1 amount and all of those things. It's almost like they can connect the dots. If you think about those connected dot drawings you have do you have your kids do right now? Yeah, you know, they have dot one, two, and three, and then dot 24 and 25. The offline Conversions can say, Okay, here's dots, you know, 478 1250. And from there, you can definitely draw straight line to to that conversion and more accurately pinpoint that purchase event, to the AD, AD SET, campaign and person. Yep. And then from there, once they have a complete data picture, algorithm optimizing should be much cleaner on their side for predicting who to put the ad in from.

Greg Marshall  14:55  
So next, based on how you're explaining it, this is my interpretation. And that that what you're essentially doing is you're taking Facebook's data on platform, which will never go away because it's their platform. Yep. Yep. And then you're taking your first party data, which is yours to own? Uh huh. And you're removing the middleman of iOS 14, or any other Google Chrome or anything else and get in the way, right? ad blockers, whatever, and you're just matching. So you're basically taking the middleman out, right? And putting more of the control in your own hands. Yeah. This is why I think this is a great strategy, because now you don't have to worry so much about can you get better data? If you take the middleman out, because what's the one variable that has ruined a lot of this? It's the middleman of iOS and ad blockers and other browser tools that have gotten in the way of event

Blake Beus  15:55  
network problems, right. I don't think a lot of people realize this. I do. Because I'm a massive nerd. But at any point in time, when you're browsing your phone, and everything, there's a significant number of data packets sent from your phone between your phone and the server that get dropped the go to a dead end or whatever. And there's this error checking and everything built in so that you as the user, you don't notice, yeah, but it happens all the time. It's messy behind them, like network internet, it's all messy behind the scenes. And that little tracking event could just get just go off into nowhere yet or land. Right.

Greg Marshall  16:25  
Which, which makes sense. So it's like, so this is almost a safer way to match your data to get it to be as accurate as you can. Yeah. With what you have, you know, around.

Blake Beus  16:38  
Yeah, well, I'm glad you talked about first party data, because I know that reminded me and we've talked about first party data. And I've been I've made the perfect prediction, you made the prediction, I will continue to make this error addiction, that first party data will 100% be the most important asset your business owns, as in the future. And the only way to really have that good first party data is to own more of your own platform, like own more of your own server stack. All of these things. We've talked about server side, Google Tag Manager, that's, that's putting first party data into your hands. And I guess, to circle back that, it's not surprising that Facebook behind the scenes is probably massively improving their ability to match first party data from advertisers to their own first party data in platform and quietly behind the scenes probably dumping millions upon millions upon millions of dollars to improve that matching to make this work way. But I

Greg Marshall  17:46  
think, you know, I think there's going to be just a shift. And they'll probably be by a new solution that comes out that makes this process more seamless with first party data and offline events and attaching it to ads. I personally don't know how to make that.

Blake Beus  18:08  
Well, they already are working on it. That's essentially what the conversion API is. Yep. Right. And so in, that was the other thing I wanted to kind of circle back to really quick, there's kind of three ways you can get data into the ads manager, that's the pixel. That's the old school way that's been there. And that's the way that's been hammered lately, with privacy, whatever. You have this offline events, and that's been around for a long, long, long time, but seems to be getting massive improvement in optimizations. And the third way is the conversion API. And I know people have heard about that. But if you're listening to this, and you don't know what, what the conversion API is, Greg, what what, what is the conversion API?

Greg Marshall  18:51  
Because I was gonna ask, Well,

Blake Beus  18:52  
I actually what you think and then I'll, I'll answer a mine.

Greg Marshall  18:55  
My understanding is that the API is connected within Facebook, that then gets more information that matches to what's happening on your website. That's like, My interpretation is more accurate than, like, browser pixel information. Yeah. Is that correct? Like, that's how I understand. Yes,

Blake Beus  19:17  
so from from a tech nerd standpoint, you there's lots of layers to this. But I'm going to talk about two kind of main layers to how our technology and internet infrastructure is built. The the layer, the first layer I'm gonna talk about is the client side layer. So that is your browser. There's actually code that executes in your browser, right? And then there's another layer, which is called server side. And that is code that operates that executes on the server before anything gets sent to your browser. Okay. Okay. So the pixel is all executed in your browser. So that means me as the user, myself as the user I have a lot of control over what the client side does, because that's my browser, I own it, I can install a, an ad blocker, I can have a firewall, I can have an anti virus that I can have all of these things, I can have a virus on my computer that monitors my traffic and blokes, that kind of stuff. There's lots of things that could go wrong, intentionally or unintentionally, on my side, but I have a lot of control over them. The server side is is the owner or whoever runs that server has kind of control over how that operates. So the conversion API is essentially talking from the server side, directly to Facebook's server side. And we're cutting out the client side altogether better. So there's less data available. On the server side, I don't necessarily get access easily to say, mouse clicks and things like that on the server side, because those are client side events. Yep. But there are things on the server side, I do have access to a purchase event that has to go through my server, right? You know, or add to cart Events Add to Cart events, because that goes through my server, and that gets updated in my servers database, adding a lead, that's a server side event. And those are hard events that we know, not only when they happen, but we know the data that was submitted and sent to us. And so you're pushing that data. So it is more accurate. But there's kind of less data to go with gotta go, right? Because the pixel can capture a lot more client side events. So you're gonna get a lot more accurate. So this is what I have aggregated events. Yes, yeah. Because it kind of starts to merge all of that answer

Greg Marshall  21:43  
together. That's why they limit how many events you can do. Yeah, because they only want so many. Because from what you just said, server side, it takes some of the, you know, the other pieces of data, you kind of lose that on the client side, right? Yes. So So server side, that's why you have aggregate events of give us eight events. And aggregate events are just events that you set up within Facebook. And once again, I use them and understand what they're doing. But I don't know how to explain that. Yeah, on the technical side, just know what they're doing. Right, right. But it's a way to essentially allow Facebook to be able to optimize for the events still. Versus if you do just browser, the warning that I see that they get is you won't be able to target people that have the iOS 14 setting. Right. Right. And so that pretty much will reduce your reach. Right? Absolutely. Right. And so with those three, we have offline events, we have conversion API. And then we have the pixel events, where when we give all three of those channels of data to the ads platform, are basically feeding the ads manager, fertilizer, like you're planting a field, you're just you're just giving it all of this good, good fertilizer for it to work with. And

Blake Beus  23:04  
we've talked about sending positive signals back to the algorithm, we've talked about what types of signals we want to send. And even though you're sending the exact same signals in the conversion API, as you are your offline events,

Greg Marshall  23:17  
and your pixel, especially those that are all very similar datasets, they can use those to make a statistically significant, you know, guess, much more accurately, because you're giving it a lot more data. Yep. So I think those So with all this kind of, we're talking heavy about data. The reason why we tend to talk about data so much, is because the date of data runs everything. Right? No matter I mean, right now, we're talking about advertising, but you can you can talk about weight loss, you're talking about data and school, data's data runs everything, and you can't make smart decisions. Unless you know, unless the data is correct, right? And then even more importantly, what to do with it. Right? So it does, you know, good to, like, have all this data, but then not know what decisions right you need to make. And so that's why we're talking about data's, you want to get that all figured out so that you can start to figure out what drives your business performance, which is everyone wants increased sales and profitability, right? This data will give you that, but you have to work hard to get it all in a way that you can make actual business decisions to you're maximizing the return on your dollar. Right. And that's, that's what all marketers are business owners really want the end of the day is, how do I make sure that if I spend the dollar that at least a second one comes back? Right, exactly. Well,

Blake Beus  24:46  
in and out. I know I talked about data and we're both nerds in our own way and I'll fully admit that, but this doesn't have to be insanely complicated. Like if you're a business owner solo business owner Small Business sonar whatever. I would say this does not have to be super complicated because most of the work can be done for you if you pick the right platform to kind of run your business off of. And I know this is a big decision and a big, big question mark that a lot of people have. But it's one of the reasons say in the E commerce space, why Shopify is the gold standard. While they're not perfect, yep, they do put a lot of effort into making sure they have tight integration with ad platforms. And they spent years and years and years doing that. And I wouldn't be surprised if Shopify has an entire team dedicated to basically being a liaison with Facebook and making sure the ads and making sure that we're doing things the way Google wants it done. And we're doing things the way Facebook wants it done so that a person can sign up for Shopify store, they can literally click a button and turn on conversion API. Yep, which implementing that yourself behind the scenes is a lot of work with Shopify, you can click a button, there are other platforms that make this easy. I use a cart software called Pay kickstart for a lot of my subscriptions and things. They have that integrated, I can just click a button and handle the authorization and boom, it's done. But you need to make sure you pick a platform that allows you to do two things. Now that allows you to have the conversion API and allows you to export your order data with timestamp, and all of that stuff, so that you can then upload that if you have those two pieces in place, this is very easy to do. And it's very approachable. If you don't have those two pieces in place, it can get really complicated.

Greg Marshall  26:29  
Well, and you know what, I'm happy you brought that up. Because one of the things, you know, just running a lot of different accounts, different clients use different software's. The software's that used to work really well before you needed aggregate events, and server side and API and all that. They don't work as well anymore at the moment, because there's no way to kind of update, right, the new way of doing it. Like for example, I'm not going to say the company's names. But an example would be what you used to be able to do is like just take your pixel ID, and plug it in to these platforms where people can use forms. Yeah. And the pixel itself would just figure out all the events. Yeah, that's all you needed to do, right? But now you have to verify your domain. Well, now you can't use that domain unless you verify and there's multiple ways you have to do that. And then if you have multiple websites, you have to figure that out. And then the other thing is the actual conversion events that you want it to track. Well, you have to be able to put code and now specific pages versus before that just that Id alone would fix that for you. Right? So there's multiple steps that are now and if they're purchasing through these platforms, a lot of them don't have the time that they purchase. Like they're not recording that or at least they're not giving it to me, right, yeah, they're not allowing you to export that. And so because of that, then you're off on events won't be as accurate, then it would if you're using platforms that are more up to date, like a shop, right? Well, and this is this is you talked about verifying your domain. And that's a really important piece that not a lot of people think about when they're picking a platform. So, five, six years ago, the

Blake Beus  28:16  
standard was for a very easy kind of funnel situation was to sign up for a service, I would have my domain name, Blake, or whatever, I would be able to associate that with, you know, the funnel builder, but then when it came to making the payment or something, the domain name would be something like something that you know, something like, I don't know, payments, start payment, or whatever. And then that's how you would make the payment. Well, I can't verify that domain, because I don't own that exact payment platform owns that exactly. And so now Now, that's a problem, because I am required to verify that domain in order to capture purchase events through the pixel Exactly. So you have to, you have to own those domains name now. And so a lot of these companies are having to shift. They did that for a reason on purpose. And it wasn't a bad reason. It was a security reason there. That way, they could own the security certificates to make sure the payment was sent securely and encrypted. But now there's this layer of complexity. Yeah, it doesn't have to be crazy though. There's, there's some, there's some ways to make it happen. But if you pick the right kind of platform, they will handle creating the security certificates for your domain. That's easy. Now, it used to be hard. It's easy. Now, it's easy to do that in a secure way. But you have to get a platform that allows you to do that. So do a little bit of research on how they handle payments and things. Because some of the ones that used to be big a few years ago, are behind the times and don't allow you to do this now. And they need to play a little bit of catch up. And some advice that I actually would give is if you're on one of these platforms. In fact, I'm talking with a client after this podcast, see if we can do this but

Greg Marshall  30:00  
If you're on one of those platforms, and you're wondering, is it worth the change, I would say yes, even if it's a headache, initially, I would switch over because whatever, you know, getting that data back into your ad accounts is more important than I think a lot of people understand. Because if your ad platform can't optimize, and you're using ADS to grow, then you're you're basically already starting at a disadvantage, right? And you're keeping yourself at a disadvantage. You will, I don't want to say never, but you will rarely outperform your competitor, who maybe has the right platform. And the same same everything, they will outperform you just because that data will get fed into their accounts faster and more efficiently than yours, and therefore they will win. So you can have a competitive advantage could be having a better cleaner platform being the data versus your competitors.

Blake Beus  30:56  
Yeah, yeah. And we keep kind of circling back on onto this. As business owners, you're going to have to take more ownership over your platform, it's, it's where the future is, as agency owners, you're going to have to probably have some sort of tech, nerd contact or whatever, that can help sort out some of these complex platform issues. And make sure that the reporting and everything is, right, this guy is why you're gonna, you're gonna need more and more of that. And some people might be able to say, well, I can do both, and that's totally fine. But realistically, you know, media buying, and that tech side of things are quite different or appeal, set weight, and quite different expertise. And so I would recommend getting a good relationship and sending work if you're small agency sending work back and forth between one another from the media buying and, and just build that relationship. If you're a little bit larger agency, get a platform specialist in house that can help sort these issues out. Because if you're going to bring on a client and they have a platform that's not quite right, you either need to do a platform conversion, at least for the payment side of things, or you're going to need to build some sort of custom solution that can overcome the platform limitations. Exactly. Because it's, it's, it's the future, where having the wrong platform is going to completely kill your business is not that far down the road.

Greg Marshall  32:16  
Yes. And it matters like back, you know, when I say back in the day, we're talking like just like a year and a half. But even you it matters so much, that I can just tell you from experience running ads with similar products, just on different platforms, the performance is night and day. And trust me, if you if you want to see a better performance, you want to take your data collection, and I'm putting all this together very seriously. Because if you do, trust me, you'll make better business decisions, you'll have better results. And you'll you'll gain an advantage over the competition who's not willing to invest in these types of strategies. So, Blake, I mean, I know we covered a lot today. Yeah. When I wouldn't

Blake Beus  33:03  
say a data. Yeah, let me just wrap all this up into some sim because I like to simplify the apps because it's easy to go down this rabbit hole. The simple, simple, simple thing you should be doing right now is upload offline data daily. Yep, that's it. If you're doing everything else, even if you have the conversion API all set up, upload that offline data daily, do it every day, just if you do that every day, and it can you can get it down so that it's it's a few minute job, it doesn't have to be this crazy, difficult thing. Do that every day, I guarantee you, you're gonna start seeing more interesting results. And you'll be able to make better decisions on your ads. Oh, no, by doing that one simple thing everyday for you, your business or your clients.

Greg Marshall  33:47  
So I think, you know, wrap this up, I think, take your data serious and build a system that can track and monitor and use like Blake got me on this. Make, you know, business intelligence, business intelligence to make the right decisions and to grow. So with that being said, Blake, how do people get a hold of

Blake Beus  34:10  
Blake And there's the SM3 group there that Greg and I are both involved with if you have any questions surrounding marketing, organic, social media, marketing, any of that stuff, we have a bunch of tools to help you do all of that stuff. It's a great place to be when

Greg Marshall  34:23  
to reach me, you can go to Greg, you can book strategy session if you have any questions and until next time, we'll see you later. Bye.


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