Modern Marketers with Blake Beus and Greg Marshall

Modern marketing tactics that anyone can use to scale and grow

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Friday May 13, 2022

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript Greg Marshall  0:00  I don't know, where do we where do we start? Where to? Well, you know, yesterday, we're sending our text messages talking about tracking, right, and the importance of tracking. And you know, how tracking causes a lot of issues? Yeah, with knowing what's working and what's not. And you actually discover something as you were implementing, and you're a seasoned veteran, which, which tells me if a seasoned veteran runs into this, the rest of us people, yeah, are definitely not doing this. So why don't you share a little bit about what you read? Blake Beus  0:31  Oh, absolutely. So I had this question for a long, long, long time as to what's the best way to actually track conversions. From like a technical standpoint, whenever you set up a new campaign, or a new conversion pixel pixel, specifically with Google, it says, Hey, here's three different ways you can set up this conversion, it could be an imported goal from Google Analytics, you can set it up with Google Tag Manager, or the third option is you can set it to your developer and they will add the code directly on the page with what's called a global site tag. But they don't tell you which one of those is best. Now, I've noticed over the years, that specifically the Google Analytics, importing of the goals, never gave me as many conversions as the other ways of doing it. And it always seemed like the conversions got dropped there. And you were saying you've noticed the same? I did, right? I've actually Greg Marshall  1:28  tried all three of those. Yes. And the one without a doubt, global site tag works. Yeah. And I just, luckily, or accidentally plugged this in a website correctly. And notice that there was there was more conversions recording. Yeah, then the other two options. And so I just thought, and to give you full disclosure, I also had the other two versions uploaded as well. So I can't compare. Okay, so those numbers are completely different. Yeah. So as I spoke with the client, they would look into the, into the ads manager, and they would notice, how come these they're all tracking the same thing purchases, but how come there's three or four numbers? Yeah. And my thought was, well, this is the Google, you know, pixel on the page. This is the uploaded analytics. And then this is the Google time. And the problem is, it seems like there's some level of drop off right? Where, yeah, and so that actually helped my case to show you can always trust Yeah, the attribution 100% Yes, I'd be 100%. Accurate? Well, Blake Beus  2:34  absolutely. And the thing is, is like every Google Ads tutorial out there, I've ever seen paid or free on YouTube, or even like provided and made by Google never talks about which one of these is most accurate, they oftentimes will talk about implementing whichever one is easiest for you, based on your setup, whatever. But there's clearly some accuracy differences. So I was diving into some of the Google documentation for something completely different. And I was reading one of their documentation pages on setting up conversion events going through and there's this small little section that says outright, the Google site, global, the Global Site tag with conversion event, is the most accurate way to track any of your events, whether that's a lead conversion, or say a sale or anything like that. And it's only on this one page kind of buried in the documentation, whatever. But it there it is, like, there's there's the evidence, that's the proof. And that's even more accurate than Google Tag Manager, which a lot of people will say, well, it's it's easier when Greg Marshall  3:49  it's Yeah, tracks as well. I have found just from experience, that the global site is the most Yeah, accurate. And the other thing that I've noticed is, I don't know the documentation that said this, but the Google, did you see anything about enhanced conversions? didn't show anything about that? Blake Beus  4:10  I have seen some stuff, but I didn't see it in relation to this. Specifically. Greg Marshall  4:14  It wasn't in a doc. I was curious. I wasn't looking for it. Yeah. And all the ad accounts are that I manage only some of them have that option, and others don't really. So I don't know if it's a new thing. Maybe not rolling out. Yeah. Blake Beus  4:26  Yeah, um, I'm not entirely sure that'll that'll be interesting. We'll have to dive into that. Yeah. But I do want to take a quick minute to just talk about maybe why. And this is one of the things we've talked about before, if we want to take a big step back about, you know, why is this and we've mentioned over and over and over again, the easier you make it for the algorithm to know what's going on, the easier it is for them to for the algorithm to deliver the right kind of the ads in front of the right kind of people and we've we've talked about that this is true with Facebook ads is true with any algorithm based Yep, adds platform, you want to make it easy. And I think that's exactly why the global site tag is the most accurate. Because from a tech perspective, it's very easy for the algorithm to consume that information, it loads on page load. It's one script tag plus fires one event, one conversion event that's either like a, you know, a lead or a purchase or whatever. If you use something like Google Analytics, your analytics has to grab that information, it gets processed as part of the goal algorithm, and then it gets sent over into Google ads. And that's a lot of steps or something could go just a tiny bit off, and then the conversion doesn't get counted. It's kind Unknown Speaker  5:40  of like playing the telephone game, exactly what it is yes, it gets diluted, the more time it has to go through another source. And then Blake Beus  5:49  you you even have with that particular setup, you even have this option where usually inside of analytics, you have multiple people in there building reports doing all these things. And if someone makes a change that breaks that goal funnel, now you have human error on your team side, causing no conversions to get reported into your Google ads, and no way to be notified that that's what happened. There's no like change management system inside of Google Analytics or anything. So there's so many places where the ball can get dropped, their information won't get communicated back. The second one was Google Tag Manager, how that works is it loads some scripts, and then Tag Manager injects other events or other scripts or things in there for you. This is set up for marketers to be able to basically change advertising events and conversion events without having to involve a developer team. So it does make sense. But then again, you're loading one library script, and then you're injecting some other library scripts. And you're hoping that all of that happens in the correct kind of timing, and then things get get converted and sent back. It's Greg Marshall  6:57  a recipe for failure, especially at this moment where a lot of tracking is being taken away. Yeah. Now you're adding an extra step for it to not be able to track as, Blake Beus  7:08  right and then one thing I've noticed is every time you set up inside of Google Tag Manager, a Google Ads conversion event, it always to ask you do you want to add the conversion linker as well. And a lot of people don't know what that is, you can you can Google it and search on it. And it just basically says, this is something that helps link up your initial ad page view with the URL parameter that says GCL ID, and then there's that long string of numbers. It helps connect that with, you know, a conversion event that happens now in your funnel. And you're thinking, okay, cool, great. That makes tons of sense. But how that works is it has to set a specific cookie for the conversion linker with the Google Click ID, which is that long string of things when people click on it, and then it has to track that cookie through all of these steps. And then, and then finally, at the very last thing, it has to send that back. And the reality is, is that there's also a lot of places for it to get lost to, for it to get lost. So really, the absolute best setup is to have the global site tag on your page. And that is on every single page of your site. Yep. And then there's a different global site tag for analytics. And for ads. Yes. So that's, that's one thing you got to think about, you can actually combine those together into one tag, but you have to set a little variable that says This one's for analytics, and this one's for ads, that goes on every page. And then and then you just load the conversion event on your, on your thank you page, whether it's a lead, thank you, or like a purchase, thank you page or whatever. And that's it. It's very simple for a developer to do, or even a non developer to just copy and paste those those codes on there. But Greg Marshall  8:54  the moral of the story is simple. Just pay a developer make this simple communication. Yeah. So that the information doesn't get lost. Blake Beus  9:03  Yeah, in any literally, if it's something that you don't know how to do, that's fine. Any competent developer could literally do this in five to 10 minutes. Like it's not, it's really super simple. And so it's not a complicated thing for a developer to do. Just find someone that knows your, your platform, whatever your website's built on. And then any developer can make that happen in five to 10 minutes. Unknown Speaker  9:25  Well, here's the next question, then that leads us to what we were texting back and forth about yesterday, which was Greg Marshall  9:32  okay, so if we have to, let's see if we have the tracking on there. But what about our page site? Experience? Unknown Speaker  9:39  So you had mentioned that? Oh, yeah. Ah, yeah. Had a certain score. Yeah. For the mobile. Why don't we go and Blake Beus  9:45  yeah, and we can just dive right. We can dive right into that. So we were talking about the actual SM three group that I talked about on here, kind of at the end. We're running we're testing out a few new ads and things like that and, and the page has been out there for a while. Now And I was looking at the numbers. And not surprisingly, almost 90% of all the views, all the clicks. For our it's a YouTube ad and all the all the page views were from mobile devices. Yep. And that's not surprising because everybody has a mobile device these days. Yep. But the problem is a lot of people build for desktop, because you're writing code on desktop, or whatever. And I do the same thing. So I just quickly went over to Google has a couple of tools. And there's some other tools PageSpeed Insights is one where you can basically calculate what your quality score is for the page from a mobile experience standpoint. And Google does clearly say from ads, that they do take that quality score into account for for who your who's gonna see your ads, and it can actually lower your costs. Anyway, the quality score was not as good as I thought it was. And I'm a developer that pays attention to this stuff. So it's very easy to just kind of let these things go. Yep, go away. So. So anyway, there's gonna be a few things that will make few changes will make to that page to make it load faster. Make sure that it's responsive and a little bit better way. Make sure it's got a good hierarchy of data. And what I mean by that is, section headings are bigger fonts. Sub titles are slightly smaller, maybe different way, it just, it has to do with readability and easy to kind of like quickly scan through. And then the other thing I was thinking about too is on the mobile experience, some of our key language on the landing page doesn't show on page load, you have to scroll down a little bit to see some of the key phrases that that that we put in there to help get people to take action. So we're gonna kind of scrunch some of that up, maybe, maybe rearrange some things on mobile. So the, the key language we want people to see is right at the top right at the top, and they can see here's Greg Marshall  11:57  a question I have. What about, you know how they have accelerated mobile pages? Is there any value to that? Is there any pros or cons? Yeah. Oh, Blake Beus  12:09  yeah, absolutely. So Accelerated Mobile Pages or amp, you've probably come across these, everybody probably has. It's a it's a thing where basically, Google takes they basically, they basically scrape your website, cache that, put it on their servers. And then and then when someone clicks on that, from Google search results, it will load that fast version of the page. Can Can you directly send someone to an app page or No, you? Because I noticed you can say it was search. So only if they search? Yeah. Can that patient? Yeah. So how, how that would work. So by search, if you choose to opt into Google amp, then anybody that clicks on your links from search will get the AMP page. If you grab the amp URL, you can send that amp URL to someone and have them load that page directly. But it's usually the URL is usually something like My website, it would be like It would it would be a different looking URL. But you could potentially send people send people directly to that. What I don't know is I don't know if you can send ads directly to that page. I have no idea. It's actually never thought about that. And Greg Marshall  13:26  I was wondering, could we send traffic to an AMP page? And if an AMP page, because it's, I'm assuming Google owns that kind of platform? Right? AMP is Google? Oh, yeah. Unknown Speaker  13:40  So then I would think, if you're using Google Adsense or Google property, would that impact it? Yeah. Like, would Greg Marshall  13:48  they basically favor a little bit more, as I'm saying, Yeah, Blake Beus  13:50  I don't know your, your quality scores would be much higher. Because the, they're putting it on a really fast server. They're caching everything, but they're also scraping out some of the JavaScript you might be running behind the scenes. So oftentimes, you might not get some of the tracking data that you would expect to get, especially if you're tracking on a non Google platform. So if you're using something like I don't know, ad roll, or Facebook pixel, or some of these things, by default, those things are not going to track, you have to do some extra work to get an AMP page to track that stuff. Greg Marshall  14:28  And so there would be the con basically, if you used an AMP page, you maybe you're tracking for pixel reasons wouldn't be as as effective. Right, Blake Beus  14:37  right. But and sometimes pages, because they're guessing, sometimes pages don't load correctly, if it's if it's a page that requires JavaScript to render certain things. And I've seen this happen before. I'll click on a page and I'm thinking this something's not right with this page. And you can actually go up to the top and click a couple of links and get to the non amp version of the page and then it starts working correctly. So there is some trade offs. Greg Marshall  15:02  So yeah, good now. So we've we've talked about tracking, right, and the importance of making sure your, your tracking codes are on as clean as possible samples Mazal, a direct communication to the ad platform, that's going to be the most effective. One thing to kind of transition from that is I was sharing with you someone that is currently running ads, yes, I love this. It has zero tracking pixels, like none, literally zero, that's amazing. Nothing, no analytics, no Facebook pixel, no, Google Pixel, and he's running ads on these platforms really. And he had mentioned to me that he had, he's been making sales at a decent clip, by the way, purely with no tracking, right, which goes against a lot of what these platforms will tell you to do. So that actually teaches a very important lesson, which the lesson is the messaging is the most important than absolutely, because without the right message, he wouldn't get any of these responses. Now, you can make the argument that if he's making great sales with no tracking, that his messaging might be as tight as you possibly can make it. Which means if you implement the tracking, and help optimize these pixels, he may be able to see great results. Because if it's working with no tracking, and a straight old school, just put this ad in front of people and use your message to get them to buy, then that means your your message is probably on point. So I would focus, no matter how much tracking we do. Never forget that you have to make sure you're actually talking to the right person. And that you have a strong marketing message. Yeah. And that's, that's everything. Blake Beus  16:53  Yeah, it's absolutely everything. And when when people start talking about split testing audiences and stuff, that's a great place to start. And we've talked about that. But you really should look at split testing your messaging, yes. And not and that's not just your messaging in your ad. That's the messaging on the landing page. And, and if you if you're using video, the messaging on your video and and seeing what's working, and then when you find out what's working, work to align all of those. So they're all in line with one another. So the messaging in the ad directs people to the landing page, which has the basically the next logical step of that messaging and the content on that page is the next logical step of the messaging, because that's super important. Yes. Greg Marshall  17:38  And one thing that, you know, when I first started running ads, there, I don't think there was actually pixels that shows you kind of Yeah, how, how many years ago that was? I don't think there was actually any conversion pixel. Actually, there wasn't I remember, because at the time, it came out maybe a few months later, okay, I remember thinking it being a big deal. Like, wow, there's this there's that Facebook, is that were you saying? Yes. And so with, with Facebook with these, I remember focusing heavy on the messaging. And I was actually using engagement campaigns, at the time, because there was only traffic engagement, you know, there was no conversion. And so I was using engagement campaigns. And I remember spending so much time on the messaging and split testing the messaging. And by the way, this is before I actually knew what split testing was, okay, I just from a sales background, I just knew certain things work better than others in face to face sales when I just took the same logic, yeah, to the advertising. And I remember, kind of fine tuning a couple of messages that were geared towards personal trainers. And there were different hooks and angles that worked better than others. And when you put them all together with the right picture, the right words, the right call to action, and then the right at the time, their funnel was they respond, then you get them into a Facebook Messenger, then you get them to a phone call to get them into person that was actually the funnel but has no tools to support that. So we just did it all manually. But we optimized each part of that funnel. But it all started with the messaging, right? Because we noticed, when I tested a certain message versus another, it would attract a totally different person. And that's, I think, when you first hear testing your messages, I think, at least I know on my end, it's easy to dismiss. Yeah, like does the message really make that much of a difference, especially on who responds to the targeting says it's targeted to this person. So like, maybe you shouldn't have to work on that as much. But I don't think that's the case. I actually think the message is split testing the message is more important than I think a lot of us give credit to because it just seems like how could a set of words or a picture make that much of a difference? Blake Beus  20:07  Yeah. And if you if you think about, you know, the olden days, yes, you know, I always go back to direct mail marketing marketing back in Canada. Dang, seriously, you guys got to lightest of all, you got to look at Dan Kennedy. And you got to read some of the material from from people that did direct direct mail marketing back in the 50s. And 60s Because they didn't have fancy pixels to send data back in, in near real time as to what was working. And so they put a lot of effort into the messaging. And just because we have all of these fancy tools now doesn't mean that the messaging is has gone away, we're, we humans haven't evolved that much like we still we still want the messaging. And it's easy to get a little lazy with testing your messaging by saying, well, let's say free download on this one, versus instant download on that one like, that can make a difference. But that's not me that we're not that's not what we're talking about. When we're talking about the messaging, we're talking about, really diving in deep to, to who you're targeting, you know, what their hopes and dreams are, what their fears are, like, get that stick and carrot going? Like, how can we help them run away from what they don't want? And how do we help them run towards what they do want, and connect the dots very clearly between what the offer is and how they can get what they want. Whatever that is with it with fitness. That doesn't necessarily mean I want to shed 50 pounds, sometimes that's the correct message. But other times, the message is actually different. Maybe it's maybe it's I'm a little bit worried about my health, because I have family members that have X, Y and Z health problems. And so I don't, I don't necessarily want to shed weight, but I want to get in a good routine now. Yeah, that kind of an understanding, they need to take that understanding and turn that into a marketing message that you got to have dive in, you got to dive in a little deeper on things. Greg Marshall  22:01  I think we and we've talked about this before, but I think we've gotten so spoiled. And I I will be a part of this group. So I'm not saying I have never been spoiled, is yeah, I'm actually a part when I say we included Yeah, we've been spoiled. I've noticed a direct. This has been the iOS change. And less tracking has actually been refreshing for me. And I'll tell you why. Because for a good stretch of maybe two to three years, the pixels were so accurate, that you can just throw up anything, and it will convert, right, like literally anything because the target did all the work for you. Right? And what that I noticed that during that timeframe, there was less and less talk about ad copy and the importance of what you're writing and all that stuff. And it was more about the technology. Right, right. And what that actually train everyone to do was to get not as effective with their messaging. And what that means I look at it like this. We all know well, not we all but many people know how to ride a bike or drive a car or run or do whatever, play basketball. But what you find out is if you take two years off three years off of anything, I don't care how high level you were. When you were at your peak. You are rusty. Yeah. And you're not as good as you are until you get back to that. Yeah. And I've noticed that over time, I think the entire market has gotten to that point where they're relying so much on technology, that they stopped practicing their marketing skills. And now, it might just be a perception that things are harder now. But really, it's kind of like if you haven't played baseball in two years, that 95 mile an hour fastball hasn't changed. It just feels harder, because you haven't been seen. Yeah. Right. And so I think that's kind of what's happened with, well, there's all this tracking gone, it feels like maybe it's more difficult, but I would actually argue it's probably everything's the same. It's just that your skill set, you've let it kind of dwindle during these good times of Blake Beus  24:19  pixel tracking, or you hopped in when the good times were happening. And this This feels like the end of the world because you're only used to you know what, what things were, which is a little bit where I was I kind of hopped in to advertising again from like the software engineering side of things. And so tracking and all that stuff was exactly what I focused on. And I hopped in kind of at the good time before before everything kind of shifted. Yeah, before everything kind of shifted. Right. But I would say the one thing I did early on is I realized that that the message was super important. So I dove in deep on reading a lot of books. I haven't gotten a copy of it. You know what that what, what is that there's this one ad book that's not real. The imprint anymore instead of $450, written by this guy I know you're talking about, I can see the cover, but I need to, I can see the cover too. But we'll we'll figure out what it is until he goes next time, but I even have a copy of that, that I've read through and has some gold in it. But, but yeah, marketing messages is extremely important. And if you think Greg Marshall  25:19  about it, you know, I always go to Dan Kennedy, Dan Kennedy warned us about, I don't know, five, six years ago, where he was mentioning, you do not want to rely on these algorithms and this type of targeting because they're going to take away who you can target. Yeah. And he mentioned because of that, you're going to be susceptible, unless you get the direct response marketing techniques down. And once again, he was right. 100%. And, you know, what I found is, from people who've done it a longer time, you know, because he's older. They always know because this all works in cycles. Yeah, right. It's very similar to fitness. carbs are bad for you one day, they're great for you the next day, fat is good for you, then it's fats battery. It's just Blake Beus  26:10  It's a never ending cycle. But what never changes is the marketing message exact like is the psychology of people, right? Like maybe there's a different angle, because there's because the offer is something new that didn't exist a while ago. But we but that psychology and focusing on the message is always going to be a constant. So the good marketers are those that focus on understanding that understanding the customer persona, and it's honestly, it's hard work it is it's it's really hard work, especially when you have limited characters, you could put in an ad. So you've got to find a way to get that message in there. In a certain space or whatever, we only Greg Marshall  26:44  have so much time, that's the other thing with ads is you only have a couple seconds to hook them in. So you've got to be effective quick. And if you're not, the, your mark is just not gonna work as well. And we no longer have these mega advanced. I mean, we the pixels are still there. Yeah. And they're way smarter than we were 789 10 years ago, but they're not what they were the last two or three. Yep. So train yourself back up to, you know, working on your marketing messaging and thinking about from start to finish versus I'll just throw it out there. Let the targeting do the work and right. Blake Beus  27:20  Watch the money come in. Yeah. And so to kind of wrap things up, because people I mean, you might be thinking, if you're listening to this right now, you guys started off talking nothing about just about tracking everything. Now we focused into this. But they're, they're extremely, extremely related, right? Like, you definitely want to make sure your tracking is is as good as you can make it. And if there's a couple of simple tweaks you can do to make that really, really good. Great. And that's what we want to do. But then you got to spend time focusing on the messaging and getting that messaging, right. Because as you have shown, some people out there not knowing what they're doing, crush the messaging and still make sales. Yep. Which many marketers would think that's crazy, that would never happen. Greg Marshall  28:03  But it's definitely possible. And so you need both you need both the and the key to these tracking mechanisms is to help drive your decisions on what's working. But don't overly rely on them to do all the work. Right. So that's why you need Blake Beus  28:18  both. Yep. All right. So we'll wrap this up here, Greg, people. Greg Marshall  28:22  So if you want to go ahead and reach out to me, Greg, you can go ahead and book a free strategy session. I'm Blake Blake Beus  28:27  how to do get a hold, just like And there's a SM3 group that Greg's actually yes involved in now and helping with now where you can communicate with us, kind of directly with weekly Q and A's and all of that stuff. Greg Marshall  28:40  So join the SM3 group. You'll get more information like this podcast. Yeah, absolutely. Kate will talk to you later. Bye.  

Wednesday Apr 27, 2022

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript   Blake Beus  0:10  All right is pretty centered, right? Okay, I think we're good. Yeah, we're good. All right. All right. So we're going to talk about, Greg Marshall  0:23  we're gonna do unique, unique bundles. Okay. Blake Beus  0:26  All right. Okay. Okay. So we were talking about different ways to bundle things. And I was telling you about some something unique that I saw and I wanted to like, dive in deep. So everybody's probably heard have heard of NF T's right now. Yeah, but not a ton of people, like know a whole lot about them. In fact, I'm one of them. Yeah. So if you were to guess, like, what would you say? Greg Marshall  0:49  To be honest? All I think of NF T's is some Gary Vaynerchuk. itself. That's, that's honestly what I think. And I think I've seen Tai Lopez talk about it. Yeah. And the the standard guys that are out there that are using up on the trends. Yeah. So that's, that's my extent. And I haven't looked, I think I've seen one called board eight. Yeah, that's a Tai Lopez one. I don't know if it's Blake Beus  1:13  one like that. That's those, the board eight collection is the most expensive NFT collection out there. Greg Marshall  1:19  So yeah, but outside of that, Oh, no. Blake Beus  1:22  So here's, here's what I here's what I saw. Interesting. So recently, one of my friends was telling me they saw they saw this and I dove into it looked into it a little bit. But Russell Brunson offered an NFT kind of bundle for anybody that purchased tickets to to live in called funnel, hacking live or whatever that that that is, he also offered an NF T to people to watch like a free webinar, basically getting people to do that. And then, and then one person that claimed the NFT was going to get essentially, well, everyone's gonna get entered into a drawing. And one person with an NFT with with that particular collection of NF T would win, basically free access to all of his recorded courses for life got because of the NFT. Yeah. And, and what what I found interesting about this was, this was essentially, he used a trending topic, that not a lot of people know what they actually are, but they've heard of them, offered one of these things, which is a digital thing to people for free, attached to real world value to it. And along the way, basically taught people how, how to create how to sign up for and receive and kind of manage NF T's all along the way. And he did all of that to people that don't know what NF T's are. Yeah, it's almost like they're going after people similar, like me, Greg Marshall  2:52  have heard, you know, NF t, it must be of some value. Yeah. Because people keep talking about Yeah. And so my assumption is, well, this NFT must have some value. So maybe I would want that. Yeah. Right. So it's almost like it's marketed perfectly to someone like me, who has enough knowledge to know that it exists, but not enough to actually know like, once I have it, what do I do? Blake Beus  3:16  Right? Well, and that's what I found most interesting about, and I can explain exactly what an NF t is, in a minute. But before doing that, what I found most interesting about this was he was able to use a trending topic, to incentivize people by bundling this unique thing, and offering a chance to win something. And it probably boosted sales by a large margin. Yes. And it got me thinking about just unique bundles, which you've talked about bundles before. Yeah. But I feel like the greater principle here is not necessarily the NF T's. Yeah, it's, it's that you need to be thinking about how to create a an offer that is a bundle offer that's interesting and harder, hard to you know, turn your back on. And it's it's unique, and it creates urgency and value. That is what was more interesting to me. And I feel like more businesses need to really think about this, Greg Marshall  4:17  I think, excuse me, I think what we can learn from it is how to make your offer more sexy to the audience right? Sometimes we have offers that maybe you know, they go stamp right so hey, you know, come sign up for this come sign up for that only works for so long before people are like, Oh, I'm no longer interested in that because we all have the attention span of like 10 seconds, right? And we want the new shiny object syndrome. And what I think a lot of these guys do very well, especially Russell Brunson is they know how to they understand that people have shiny objects? Yeah. So they know how to use that to their advantage. Right, right. And there's nothing wrong with that. No, that's literally what marketing is, is be to finish the conversation or continue the conversation has gone on in the customer's mind. And that's what they do is they are able to figure out how do I make the offer that maybe is has not changed at all? And how do I kind of reinvigorate it by go ahead and putting something new and fresh and to write the offering? Right, Blake Beus  5:21  new and fresh? And, like, in a way that doesn't increase your overhead? Correct? Right? Because Because like NFT was something that it may be cost. Russell Brunson. 50 bucks to mint to mint some NFT. And then he gave them to I don't know, 1000s of people probably. And then some time, right? Because there's some technical knowledge and he's happened to create your own NFT. But, you know, it just gets me thinking. If you pay attention, you see this. In in gyms, you see this with, with, with lots of different businesses, horses and horses. And it's but it's easy to forget when you're creating your own stuff, because it's almost like you're too close to your own business. You're too close to it or whatever. Right. It's Greg Marshall  6:10  too. Yeah. So that's a that's a great point. Because that's a challenge that I believe everyone has. I've had this before, we all believe that just our offer alone, because we did it is special enough. Yeah. But we don't if we take like an honest look and say, Is this intriguing enough to get someone actually want to do this? Right? Usually the answer's no. Right? I mean, usually you do have to work on really kind of making it something that people want to, that they become attracted to. And one rule of thumb that I have found, is whatever, it's almost like whatever you dislike out there, as far as how things are being sold, is how you're gonna have to sell. Right, right. So we all hate or I hate ads. I hate this. I hate when one more special offer. That's not all. But that all works. Right? Right? And so it's almost like you have to make a deal with yourself to say, you know, I don't necessarily love to sound that way. But it obviously worth it. Because yeah, that's how these guys are making millions and millions. Yeah, absolutely. Blake Beus  7:16  And, like one of the things I think about a lot is, it's almost like you need it's almost like you need multiple multiple offers one to get people in the door. And then one to keep keep them there. Especially when you have a business that's maybe a service based business with recurring revenue, or or people come back or you have returning customers or, or some sort of subscription or membership plan, like a gym or whatever, whatever. Right. So like, we talked about gyms a lot, because you have a background, it's kind of an easy thing to visualize. But when you were selling gym memberships, I'm guessing you had something to get people in the door. And then once they were in the door, you did some things to keep them coming through the door. Greg Marshall  7:58  Yeah. Right. You always had, you know, people, these are this is the example of stay offers now, you know, the seven day trial pass free personal training session. So you know, free nutrition plan, you know, you had to find a way to make the same thing sounds different. Right. Right. And so that's exactly it. You always had like some kind of heard some kind of, you know, we've talked ethical clickbait in this in this instance, it's ethical walk through the door Bay. And it's, you know, you basically want people to try something out, and you have to do something that makes them say, I'm willing to exchange my time for whatever it is. Blake Beus  8:37  Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you can you can even see this in real estate, we were talking about real estate a little bit earlier, right? Like, there's 1000 real real estate agents in the local area here that I could reach out to any one of them. But why would I go with this person over this person? And oftentimes, it has to do with more than just the fact that they can show me some houses? Greg Marshall  9:01  Yeah, that's the most I guess. It's a very competitive space, because a real estate agent can't change homes to make their home better. Right? They're literally selling the same exact thing. So they have to figure out unique ways to stand out that has nothing to do with the actual product. And that's, that's how you win is because most of the stuff that we're all making is not new. None of none. Everyone has done what we most likely are offering. Yeah, it's how can we spin it to see different new, exciting, intriguing, and that's that's the name of the game. Yeah, right. Real estate agents are no different fact. They probably have one of the hardest jobs because you have to literally figure out how do I stand out from the 1000s and 1000s of people selling literally the same product in the same exact area and the consumer knows, no different, Blake Beus  9:58  right? And you can just mark everything off 20% Yeah, he Greg Marshall  10:01  can't give it this guy. Can I mean, I guess you could probably figure out ways to do that. But there's only so much you can do. Yeah, yeah. And Blake Beus  10:09  so you have ways to kind of like a realtor their way of bundling, is you're bundling basically, your service and your personality. And that's what comes with the purchase and whatever. And that's kind of a probably a harder place to think about bundling. But the bundling does work. It's almost like, the more common your product is, the harder and longer you need to think about how to separate, right, because they have seen your room, literally, yep, for 1015 20 years, the same sale offer, but the same exact sale offer so you have to change it up. You sell these tactics that a Russell Brunson uses where you take the same offer. And you make it sound like it's new by adding something that's trending. Yeah. Maybe give them an NF T for every house. Greg Marshall  11:02  Fine Art painting, you know, but one of the other challenges, I think in real estate and you know, financial markets is there's limits to what you can do as far as legal. Yeah, yeah. Right. Like there are regulations. You can't just do anything like can't say, buy this house. And I'll give you I literally will give you $5,000 back. Yeah, new cars. I mean, at least to my knowledge, I don't think do that. Yeah, absolutely. Blake Beus  11:27  Absolutely. Speaking of bundles, I know we talked about this one, and I want to keep bringing it back. Because in my mind, this was one of the more interesting bundles I've ever seen. But it was Gary Vee when he said when he launched his book back in August, I think is what it was. And the book had something to number 12 Like, marketing principles of stuff. I don't know. I didn't I didn't read it didn't work for me, I guess but. But he basically said if you buy 12 of these books and send my team that receipt will give you a free NFT Yeah, is what it was. And he sold like a million books at first 24 hours with that offer. And again, the NFT didn't cost him any money. Yeah, but what he did is he essentially convinced people to buy 12 have something Yeah, normally only by one. Yep. He 12x Yep. The average order number just by doing just by bundling with this, like free NFT or whatever. So but yeah, I don't know. We talked about NF t's a lot. Do you think it would be worth diving into a little bit of what NF T's are like you want me to spend a couple of years Greg Marshall  12:26  I don't even know to be honest. I am not I know it's like some digital and there's something that's a value I but I to be honest, I'm lost. I'm what entities actually. Blake Beus  12:37  Yeah. So I mean, NF T stands for non non fungible token, which really doesn't mean a whole lot. So it is non fungible means it's irreplaceable, right? So fungible means is replaceable. So the easiest way to think about this is in terms of $1. Bill. Yeah, if I give you $1 bill, it doesn't matter which dollar bill I give you. It's worth $1. Right? Now that that means it's fungible, doesn't matter which one it is, every time I give you $1 Worth It is worth $1. Now, something that's non fungible, would be something like a collector's edition dollar from the early 1800s that had a misprint and there was only like 10 of them. And nine of them were burned in the Chicago Fire and you have this only one one at $1. Bill, that $1 bill. It's It's irreplaceable. Yeah, that that is the the only one of those it's non fungible. Greg Marshall  13:32  So So NF T's are basically just collectibles, like Limited Edition type stuff. Yeah. If you think about him, like a limited edition of Michael Jordan, autograph card that I have. That's, that can be somewhat of an NFT. Right. Not. I mean, I practice some process to make this Yeah. And Blake Beus  13:49  it wouldn't be it would be non fungible, but it wouldn't be a token, it would be a non fungible thing, right. Like it's this collector's thing. So if you start thinking about NF T's like a, like a collector's thing, then they start making a little bit more sense on why this this board ape sold for 1.2. Guys. Baseball cards. Yeah, digitally. Yeah, yeah. Now the other the other aspect of that is if you have Michael Jordan card that signed or baseball card that's signed by Sandy, So sir, whatever. Typically, you need some sort of authentication certificate, certificate of authentication, right? Well, with non fungible tokens, it's a digital thing. So the certificate of authentication is on the blockchain, okay? Right. And blockchain, all blockchain is at a high level is a ledger of, of transactions essentially. So you think of it like a ledger book in accounting, you have your debits and credits, that's all it is at a high level. And so essentially, the transaction would be I created this NFT and then I transacted by giving it to you for however much you paid for it. And now everybody can look at the blockchain and say Greg's wallet Greg's wallet address, which no one else can face up. Greg owns that NFT. And you could sell that Greg Marshall  15:08  I can see now now that you explained that right now, okay, so it makes sense on why the younger demo is so excited about this. Because the instantly putting myself back into when I'm 1314 years old, how interested I was in baseball cards, and the value and trade I used to trade baseball all the time, I was a kid. And this basically just sounds like this is a new form, but real money involved in collecting baseball cards. I have this unique, you know, rookie card, or, you know, Michael Jordan, and no one else has it. And I got it and Don Ross's, you know, bag, one once upon a time. And so I was like hitting the lottery in a way you're like, I've Blake Beus  15:54  got this really valuable thing that Yep, people want? Uh huh. And, and there's only so many of them, right? And so because you have it, the value is super high. And you could actually transfer that and get money for it. Yeah, that's basically NF T's are is like, basically baseball cards. Yep. Now we can take it to one level higher, though. Now imagine that there was a special event that only people that had this limited edition signed baseball card could go to, okay, so now there's this real world, like, value for having it not just value that owning it, and I could sell it, but you're getting value out of, you're getting actual value right now by by being the owner because it's your ticket to get in the door out to this elite thing is the I see. So basically, it has like dual value, because now I can you sell it. But you can use it as a way to be part of Greg Marshall  16:50  a VIP group or Blake Beus  16:52  part of a club, right you can, you can attach some real world value. Now that has less to do with like the technology itself and more to do with basically saying, as the creator of this NFT. If you own this NFT, then I will provide this real world value to you. So there's no like, technical, you've got to scan your NFT to get in the door. It's just like, we're only going to send invites out to people. And you can verify that on the website before we give you the ticket that you're the owner of that NFT. And then you get into that or you get with Russell Bronson's case you get entered into a drawing, yep, right. With Gary Vee, he offered, he basically said there's going to be some events and things that you'll be able to come to, or you could offer people discounts if they're NFT, owner or whatever, right? So and that's where we're starting to see a little bit of a transition, where because, again, as a creator, I can create an NFT. And it cost me maybe $50, in what's called gas fees to mint those. But then I can give them out to whoever because they're there to create, I created them. And when I created them, I could say there's only going to be 100 of these. And once that's done, it's locked in, I'd have to create a new collection in order for me to Greg Marshall  18:04  can there be so something that I have a question about is could there be an oversaturation of entities? Oh, yes, it is. Yeah. So is this a hurry up and get in early now? Before it's too late type deal? Or is this? Like, it's still the value is still be based on who created the entity? And that doesn't matter. Yeah. Blake Beus  18:25  Right. More of the latter, because what we're seeing is a shift, right? The whole get in early kind of happened like 18 months ago. And that's where all of these that's more than a cent, all the others. The frenzy happened and everything and, and in order to play that game, you got to drop some serious money. Like, I think the cheapest board ape is maybe $50,000 or something like that idea. I Greg Marshall  18:51  do know that the board. That's why I remembered it because I I heard that it was extremely expensive. Yeah, sounds like wow, what is that? I don't even know what it is. But after this explanation, I don't know why people would pay that Blake Beus  19:04  right. And I think boarded gets you into some events and some other either some of the real world benefits for being an owner. But what we're starting to see now in my eyes is is a shift, where you're starting to see NF T's being given away. Because we want to provide some additional value or whatever, or that value can be bought and traded and sold and traded and sold in whatever Greg Marshall  19:31  country club. Yeah, so yeah, it's like having a membership at a concert. Yeah, you could, Blake Beus  19:35  you could do that. Or you could, you could launch a commemorative NFT for anybody that did this Krump commemorative event, or all of you the VIP members are the founding members of a particular group. Everyone gets an NF T and there was only 50 of those because there's only 50 members and now you're the owner of that and it's not really worth selling. But basically it's like a badge or a metal that you can wear or a ribbon that says that that was me. I'm the authentic you know, if the authenticate, you know what I'm thinking now that I understand NF T's now that you've explained it to me. And this manner, Guru marketing might take a whole nother level. Because the smart ones out there, the ones that are always on the newest trends, they're going to be able to utilize this as a way to make their guru status even more cemented. Yeah. Right? Because you can use this as hey, you know, you're at my country club now. Yeah. And if you want to be closer affiliated to, you know, buy this, or get this and you can create value just from being affiliated with you. Through these NFT. Yes, because you're the only one Yeah, yeah, I think we're gonna see a lot of creative use cases for this, where they're not necessarily being sold and traded as collector's items, but they're being used in ways that we probably can't imagine. But they're being used to basically say, Yeah, I was there, or Yeah, I did that, or, yeah, I'm part of this group. And I'm Greg Marshall  21:02  not saying that's a bad thing. No, I don't think that's so I'm actually saying the guru marketing. And I know guru sometimes negative connotation, but I guess an influencer or someone that is creating stuff or like you're using the creators, they could use it to build a more loyal following, and really create some cool stuff. I mean, if you think about it, if you've got a specific, let's say, an actor, right? Like, I love the rock, or the rock created one of these, and he saw an NFT. That was like, if you buy this, you have access, you could literally meet the rock. Yeah, at his next movie, Sean. But you know, it costs you $10,000 on this, and every time he rolls out in the movie, you can be there. Yeah. You know, now, that's interesting. Blake Beus  21:48  That's interesting, like, and that's something that could be sold down the road to someone else. And Greg Marshall  21:53  I can see that value. Because there's two types of value. One could be, you know, an acquiring and selling value, like a house, right? I buy a house and I sell it I'm making money off or it can be something that caseloads you. Similar to like, if an actor gives you this, it's almost like a cache on a way where it's like, I have unique access to this person. Anytime when they brigade something, and that's a value, I value that more than the transaction value selling. Right. Blake Beus  22:25  Exactly. Exactly. And I think I think it's ultimately good because of this is very approachable, because because a lot of a lot of tactics and strategies, and all of these things can sometimes feel like they're, they're not approachable, unless you're you've already made it. Yeah, right. But something like this is, is approachable, there is a technical learning curve. But it's something that your typical internet savvy person could probably figure out in a few days, how to mint, their own NF T's. And how to use those to provide value to again, their group, their club, their, their, their business is at a customer, thank you, whatever. And some of your customers will be like, Yeah, whatever. But some of them will think it's really interesting and amazing. You know, it's funny, I think, and I have a client now that I have a better understanding of who would absolutely dominate this. I'm not gonna say who it is. But I'm gonna bring it up to them tomorrow. Yeah. And mentioned, they really should think about this, this technology, because the nature of their business is actually in the collectibles space are real, and they sell very unique stuff. And so with that being said, and I don't think they're looking at this, the CEO, he's always on top of things. Yeah. But he's very, he's operations. He's constantly thinking of innovative operational ways to do things. I don't know if he's seen this particular trend, like, it's actually spent much time on this, and I'm gonna present it to him and say, you know, you really should consider since the nature of your business fits perfectly with this. Yeah, that's I mean, that's a I think that's a great use case. Another use case that kind of came to mind here would be you know, Russell Brunson has his two comma club for anybody that uses Click Funnels to, to sell over a million dollars of something you get to comment, you could do something similar like when, I don't know if you're, if you're in health and fitness, or maybe you're helping with weight loss or whatever. When someone hits their goal, they get an NFT, right, or when someone hits some sort of milestone stat, like, there's like an NFT that they will get out of that that they can again present as like this badge of honor. You can even create, like little like a landing page on some of these sites that will basically say, Hey, this is my page. It's cryptic, lat graphically verified to be mine. And here's all of the badges of honors as aka NF T's that I have, and you can display those off. Yeah. So I think NF T's you know, so So, if we round it back to how you can apply this to mark, and number one is, I mean, NFT sounds like it hits all the boxes as far as solid marketing, which is, you know, create some kind of community with your customer, create something unique, create something that's intriguing and exciting, new, innovative. I mean, it's checking off all the boxes, it's a different offer, right? Not everyone can get it, you can have some exclusivity. So that's basically the moral of the story of NF T's and anything that you do your marketing is, how do we make the offer, hit these check these these boxes, how they check off the boxes, so that people respond. So people are excited about what you have. Because at the end of the day, when people are looking to market their products and services, with the route when they say I want to market my stuff, what they're saying is I want to get sales today. Yeah, right. That's what they mean. And, or faster. If it's not today, it's if it takes me 90 days gives me how do I get it and 45. Right. And so this is how you do it, right? You create offers that are unique and different, exciting, creates urgency creates, you know, Country Club feel, Greg Marshall  26:17  maybe you can't get in so if I buy this, so there's different angles to use. So I could see how NFT is applied. Basically. Standard fundamental market. Blake Beus  26:29  Yeah. And if you're out there listening, and you're like, NF T's, I don't want to go down this tech rabbit hole or, or maybe you're not a technical person. There is a way you can apply the same principles in any sort of way. Like I guess it Russell Brunson is two comma club. Yeah, it's a plaque. Right. plaques are not new. Yeah. But it was a very sought after thing, because of how hyped up it was, and everything along those lines. And there's a lot of there's a lot of different ways to to please. Greg Marshall  26:57  Russell Brunson is a Blake Beus  26:58  marketing genius. And I have no problem saying that he's very, very skilled at what he does. And a lot of things that he does, is cutting edge. It's new, exciting. It checks all the boxes that we just talked about. And I think you can learn a lot from what he's doing, versus what people are saying, right? If you watch what he's doing, and try to mimic that in your own way. Greg Marshall  27:23  You know, you could you can win. Yeah. Blake Beus  27:25  You know what I'm most jealous of him about? It doesn't seem like he overthinks everything over things. So he's well, he's always like doing something when he throws a video out there. He just he just gets it out there. Yeah. And and I talked to people about this in my membership all the time. And I'm Yeah, I overthink a lot. Greg Marshall  27:42  Well, I think thinking of overthinking. Right, I think it's just because your skill set is a different skill set that he probably can never touch. Right. And so we all have a different way of how we think. And so what I mean for him, you know, he's he's like, he appears I don't know, but he appears to be creative, impulsive. So he could just sit here and think alone, believe idea and get it out to market within seconds. Right. Whereas some people may be someone that has a mindset of yours that knows how to build things. You're thinking, Well, how does that enter? Why would I launch that now? I just started like, two seconds ago, I can't just launch. I gotta think this because you're thinking of how will it you know, apply? And Blake Beus  28:30  that's everything. That's That's how like software engineers think. And again, that's my background. Yes. I love that. I came from software engineering over into marketing, because I feel like it gives me a super unique perspective and a lot of a lot of areas. But yes, that's a very much a software engineering like way to think about solving a problem. Greg Marshall  28:46  Well, and that's it's necessary, right? Because you can't just build something with no, absolutely no regard to everything else. Because they'll break. So yeah, I think that's, you know, that everyone kind of has a different skill set. And that's what I think he has that's really good is he's probably on the high level of creativity and impulses. So he probably, I'm assuming, you know, because he's from Idaho, I think he's LDS. So he doesn't have any of these bad habits. He should never get into gambling in Las Vegas. Exactly. We're proud for that search Blake Beus  29:23  to make to make you feel better and Russell's actually shared this video but he's got a video of him out there at his very first like sales conference trying to sell something. Yeah. And he's like fumbling with WordPress. It's terrible. It's terrible. It's awful. And and so if you're out there and you're thinking I could never be like charismatic. I definitely find that it's out there on YouTube. Some find that and you'll you'll think, oh, everyone starts somewhere. Everyone starts somewhere and but yeah, so hey, let's wrap this up. Everyone. Go go get it Greg. Greg Marshall  29:56  Yeah, you can book a strategy session called me if you need some help with tomorrow. think Greg Marshall Dotco What about you, Blake? Blake Beus  30:02  Like, like you stock calm and I have a membership on there where I help people with social media marketing. So well, great, Greg Marshall  30:09  I think hopefully enjoyed this session. I know I learned a lot about NF T's and I can see what's so attractive about it. Yeah. So thank you, Blake for educating me on that. And until next time, Blake Beus  30:20  we'll catch you guys later. Bye. Later.  

Wednesday Apr 20, 2022

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript   Blake Beus  0:01  Okay, yeah. All right, record. We are. We are recording. Okay, Greg, you're telling me that you've seen a lot of small, like small solo business owners people that were running their ads and things on their own. Getting more and more frustrated and stressed about ads. Yep. Now like running their own ads now and everything, like tell me tell me what you're seeing there. Yeah, Greg Marshall  0:32  what? So the overall vibe that it seems like that's going on as ever since iOS has changed. The tracking algorithms, all of the things I think you could kind of get away with is not working anymore. And I've seen a couple of people actually say that to a tee like things that used to work, no longer work anymore. Hmm. Right. Okay. That seems to be a theme that I'm hearing. And typically, one of the one of the other things I've seen with this is, there's a level of like, okay, what do we what do we do now? Like, so? If this isn't working? Now, what do we do? So it's kind of like, you mentally it's a mental game, right? So plays, it plays some head games with you? And you're like, alright, so if this old trick isn't working, where do we go now? And they're starting to feel, I think, a little bit pressured with the changes. Sorry about that guys. Just had some foul off the wall. But that's, that's the overall vibe that I'm getting. Are you hearing or seeing that and your space? And what are your thoughts on it? Blake Beus  1:40  Yeah, I'm definitely seeing. I mean, I'm definitely seeing that. The reality is, is like, even when I got back into running ads, four or five years ago, I've always been in marketing, but I never did the actual media buying. This has been a constant theme. Like everybody's like, the stuff that used to work is no longer working. And and so I feel like for some reason, we're always surprised that stuff that works two years ago is no longer working. But I think that's going to be the the constant is that we're constantly going to have, oh, what what worked last year, your your before is not going to work. But people keep getting surprised. I think where a lot of people where I'm seeing people get really hung up with this particular one is, is the iOS 14 really started a big shift. Yeah, that really impacted the capability of ad platforms, specifically Facebook, and their ability to actually track performance. And I feel like that is to bring us back full circle. We're seeing an impact the smaller businesses that that maybe are a little bit less established, or maybe don't have a full marketing team, or like a holistic we use the summer for a holistic marketing strategy that includes multiple channels, where they used to be able to rely just on like Facebook ads, yep. They are seeing their costs go up, they're no longer being profitable on those ads, the cost per leads are going up. And then people start panicking. Yes. And then they start just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. Yep. And and that's a really great strategy to waste a lot of money. Greg Marshall  3:27  Well, and here's, you know, here's something to kind of build on that, too. So the other thing that I'm finding, and I think this is what's causing the panic, or the feeling of like, I like to call out the walls are closing in is, not only is the tracking not as good, but the typical response. You know, we all have knee jerk responses, right? Yes. And we're going to do this. And what happens is the typical knee jerk response in the past would be well, I'll just go the organic route. Okay. But here's the challenge we're running into, are these platforms giving us more free organic reach? or less? Well, less, right. And it's and it's only gonna get smaller and smaller. Right? Yeah. And, and that's not necessarily because the platforms are like, Screw you Blake Beus  4:20  guys. Greg Marshall  4:21  They're purposely trying to hurt the business. It's it's mostly Blake Beus  4:24  because there's there's just more competition right there. Right. Like there's the the amount of people putting posts out there grows faster than the amount of eyeballs watching posts. Yes, typically. And so it gets harder and harder to kind of stand out and have have organic content that you know, makes sense. Now. Now, that being said, part of the holistic marketing strategy is the organic side effect. Right. But you and I have both seen that there's a lot of magic that happens when you're combining organic with pay. Yes. Right. And so you get those people that want to do just organic and that can work for a hand Full of PDL, that can work for the you get the people to want to do just, you know, just the other, you know, or gay just paid. And that can work as well. But when we take a step back, the businesses that are able to plow through the ups and downs of whatever is going to going to come? Are the the businesses that have this holistic approach that includes, you know, email or organic or paid ads on multiple platforms and everything, but the small business owner or the solo business owner, like they don't have time, sure to do all of those things. Yes. And so we're starting to see, in my opinion, we're starting to see a gap. Yes, right, a gap where established businesses can can take off and make a bunch of stuff happen. But it's, it's harder to start off as a solo business, or whatever, and bridge that gap to the point where you can, I don't know, have a team or have those systems in place or get those things figured out. It's like, I want to talk about some realistic theists, those people that are trying to jump from, from doing it themselves, or even just barely starting to the point where they can have a more holistic approach, or maybe even a team in place, like how can people bridge that gap? Greg Marshall  6:15  So here's something that I want to touch on real quick is the extreme on one or the other? Whether it be organic or paid. I always use the health analogies, that would be the equivalent of only eating fruit and nothing else, are only eating me and nothing else. Like it's there's no extreme way to do this. The best long term approach, yeah, is a blended approach. Right? So do both, right. Blake Beus  6:43  And that's a great analogy. Because even like even things like, you know, people can go on super strict diets to cut weight or whatever it goes super strict on keto, yep, whatever. But from a long term, perspective, five years, 10 years, whatever not gonna do that, it's, it's not feasible to stick with something like that. And it's probably not even healthy to stick with something like exactly more variety, or whatever. Greg Marshall  7:04  And so one of the things I want to mention is I've been doing in my past, I've been, I believe in whatever you have to do to generate the sales. And so I like to personally implement content marketing, paid, influencer marketing, email marketing, as many channels as you know, public speaking, as many channels as podcasting that you can use in order to generate business. Because, you know, I've been doing this for a while, and I've been in business on my own for a while. And I understand at one point, Twitter was the hottest thing ever. And now it's gone. I have seen that the ebbs and flows of how things change, right. And so change is part of the game. Yeah. And so this is why you want to focus on having multiple ways to do it. But I also understand the challenge when it's just you or a small group of people having to constantly maneuver things. Yeah. And so some practical advice I like to give is the following. So number one, go ahead and start utilizing, like, email marketing is something that we've talked about extensively. And yes, iOS changes will impact the reporting of open rates, on email marketing, but that doesn't mean that doesn't work. It just means you can't see as much detail as you used to write. And so I would definitely implement email marketing. And keep it simple. Write an email, it's, it's more about consistency, than thinking of some huge, elaborate thing that you have to do for email, like you're writing a school term paper. Blake Beus  8:47  Yeah. And odds are out there. Because you you'll hear, you'll hear, you know, other other people out there saying, Okay, you need a drip sequence. And it needs to take people down this story path where step one is this introduction. And step two, is this and this and this. And I'm not saying that's a bad strategy. But what I am saying is, that is an overwhelming strategy for some people. And if you're a busy business owner that has maybe just you and maybe one other person, that that can be so overwhelming that you just simply decide to not do it. You might be thinking, if I can't do it the right way. I'm not going to do it at all. Yep. But the reality is, is writing some sort of email, maybe start saying I can do I can do one a month or two a month, right? I can carve out the time and then you work up to like one a week or two a week and and you probably don't ever need to do more than that depending on your audience or your business model. But it's better to be consistently putting out email content than it is to follow some sort of elaborate story arc and your email because I don't know if you're like this, Greg, but I don't read every email that comes in my own notes. Like I don't really like having an email this emails that build off of one another. Kind of doesn't even work for me because I'm not there. The first night like I'm I read number one and then number six, and then maybe I'll go go back and read number five, if I was searching through my email popped up, but like, I don't read them in order. So just having like these little self contained emails that can be like three sentences long, yeah, have to be something elaborate. Greg Marshall  10:18  Well, and the other thing, you know, as far as what I always kind of fumble when I say this word, but deliverability. Right. So one of the things I found is, subject lines can't seem too spammy, like free or special sale or something like that, because that will hurt it. Having too many links, or too many pictures inside of the email also impacts whether your email gets into the promotions tab, or the primary tab, and then who you're sending it to, also matters. So you want to make sure that they're opting into your list. And you're not just like borrowing someone else's, and throwing them on your list. Right? Those are a few things that you talked about email marketing, you talked about, if you're gonna do organic, at the moment, excuse me, at the moment they have on Instagram, you can do that collaborators. That's a good feature, environmental averages. Yeah. And they created that because Instagram knows that reach organically is going down. So they have to provide some type of solution. Blake Beus  11:15  And if you're not familiar with that, with what that is, you may have seen it on on on Instagram. But it's essentially, if Greg and I wanted to post a collaborative post, it would essentially show up, and the identity would be both of our little circle dots. And the audience, the reach would cover both of our audiences. So it's a good way to cross pollinate follower lists. If if you want to collaborate with someone because you can get followers that way. And it's doesn't cost you anything. Yeah. And increases your reach. Yeah, it increases both both people's reach, right. So Greg Marshall  11:53  I mean, the other thing to think about is, I would and I know, there'll be some pushback on this, but there's a way to do it, I would seriously consider hiring an admin, some kind of assistant, and just pay them by the time that you're utilizing them and the beginning. So you don't have to hire someone that's doing, you know, 80 hours every two weeks, right out the gate, which is usually what people think, right, but they have to pay some salary, you can hire someone that can just work a few hours a week for you. Yep. But give them very specific, like tactical things to do for you. For example, writing the emails, gathering the emails, sending out text message marketing, maybe compiling some content to post for you, scheduling your content. These are, this is an investment that I think a lot of like smaller individual businesses really don't take into consideration, because they believe that they can't afford it Blake Beus  12:56  right. And like, I think we can pause there for just a second and talk about how to actually find, yeah, someone to help with this. So. So real quick, I have two kinds of shout outs, the very first thing I would do is, wherever you're at wherever you're living, I guarantee you, there's some sort of a Facebook group for local business owners, find that group, hop in that group participate a little bit, and then just say, Hey, I'm looking for someone to help me three or four hours a week, write a couple of social media posts, maybe write an email or two and just kind of helped me organize that effort for a few hours a week. And oftentimes, if the person isn't in that group, someone knows someone in someone in the group knows someone. And depending, depending on where you're at the price for that could range for, from anywhere from like 25 to $30, an hour to 40 to $50, an hour for a copywriter, depending on skill level and everything. But if you think about it from a business expense standpoint, that's, you know, two to three hours a week, yep. That's really not that big of a business expense for for, you know, a business that has steady revenue, or whatever is added can have a big impact on your online presence, and your ability to get some of these things done without having to come up with all of it yourself. Greg Marshall  14:19  Exactly. And I think that's if I were to boil down the biggest challenge an individual business owner has, it's, it's time, they don't have enough time to do all the things that they want to do to make the business succeed. And that's outside of like, when we start talking about having multiple marketing channels, you know, paid is only one kind of spoke of the marketing wheel. Right. And if you're not ready to do paid, you should be doing these organic methods. But if you can't do the organic methods, because you don't have enough time because you're either sir Losing a client or fulfilling your product, your business is going to slow down, I run into this with, you know, physical therapists, personal trainers, people that in the service industry have people that they're working with and so that it's like feast or famine. Yeah. And it's because they get so busy working with the clients, they stop marketing, they're no clients coming up is this big roller coaster marketing again, I get more clients and they stopped working. And it's just like, over and over again, versus having a consistent marketing going on at all times. One thing that you can never eliminate, ever is the marketing aspect of your business. Because I believe that who is it Peter Drucker, who says all a business's is marketing, and innovation, and everything else is an expense. Blake Beus  15:51  That's interesting. I've never heard that quote before. And Greg Marshall  15:53  that's to me, I've always taken that series, because what that's essentially saying is, the core business is your marketing message, and innovating against your competitors. And everything else is an expense, right? cost of doing business. And if you don't, you know, innovate, right? And this is, this is a good point right now, where people are challenged, you know, with the Facebook ads, and I'm being as effective. This is the time to innovate, this is actually an opportunity. Yeah, not a giant obstacle, Blake Beus  16:25  right? Well, and I like it, like calling it an opportunity, because this is where some businesses are going to, some of your competitors are going to going to fall away there, they might even shift to a completely different business model or something, or, or maybe decide it's not worth it or whatever. But those businesses that can innovate and can kind of think this through get get some things figured out, are the ones that are going to come out on top. Yep. So it is an opportunity, every time I hear about something like iOS 14, or whatever, like, oh, boy, here's another opportunity. We don't know exactly how that's gonna play out. But for those people that can innovate quickly and think things through, and it's, it's a time for those businesses to be able to come out on top. Greg Marshall  17:09  Yeah, and that's, that's the thing is what you'll learn from here, although, anytime you go through a difficult time or transition, or you have to do the change, right, air, quote, change, which no, you know, none of us really like, it's always beneficial and best for you, when you go through it. But at during that time, it doesn't feel good, right? Because now we have to get outside of our comfort zone again, and do some new and do something different. And that's part of the growth, right. And so you have to look at if you're running into, like, you know, Facebook ads aren't working anymore, or they're not working as well as they used to, or I can't run ads at such a low budget anymore, because the algorithms not as advanced. And that was your only method of getting new customers, then you have to think about how can you change? How can you adapt? And how can you start implementing these other strategies, which means it's an opportunity to innovate, because a lot of people, when they do run into adversity, they fall apart? Yeah, they just they either give up or think they can't do it. And so you don't want to be one of those. Right? Blake Beus  18:22  Well, and when you stop marketing, you start shrinking. Right. And, and it's like many, many, many business owners, especially the small ones, are those just starting out? They are a technical expert, not like from a technology standpoint, but like, they're a technical expert in their field, maybe maybe they I don't know, maybe one of my neighbors is, is an engineer who builds 3d models for prototyping products, and he gets patents and things like he's a technical expert at that, but when it comes to marketing his business. Yeah, it's, it's okay. Like, that's not saying that's a bad thing. It's, it's that it's a different skill set. Yeah. And, and a lot of people try and do that themselves. And sometimes you're in a position where you have to do that yourself. Yeah. But doing a few key things can make that an easier, you know, an easier thing to do. Like I said, outsourcing to someone for a couple hours a week, small bit of self promotion here, using something like my SM three group where we basically create the images and the captions that are editable for you so you're not starting from a blank screen, you just like grab one, fill in the blanks, coming up with another strategy I feel like a lot of people should do to simplify this is just repurpose the content. If you only have the bandwidth to write two or three posts a week, take those posts and edit them just a tiny bit and now you have your email. Yep, right like put them together and you could even just post your post as an email and link that back to people. That's so you're not have you have to come up with email content and social media posts content and video content and all that stuff you just use repurpose it. We do that with this podcast, a lot of these podcast episodes go out on YouTube, as well. Yep. So we have a presence on YouTube there, even though it's and we pull it and we plug them everywhere else. Greg Marshall  20:18  Instagram anywhere we can put it. And that's really what you want to be thinking about is how can you utilize different channels, different platforms, and don't stop or quit? Or think I can't do this, or I just I don't know if I can make it happen. If you if if your dream is to own your own business, and to be your own boss and to become successful, do not give up. All you have to do is push through the challenge that you have, and focus on where are the opportunities that I can take advantage of that maybe my competitors are not willing to take action on to do it. Yeah. And when you look for opportunities, and you can't, it's hard, I know. But when you look for opportunities, and the challenge that you have, you will find it. And you'll look back after you kind of overcome it and be able to go well, I'm so happy that I figured this out. And if it wasn't for this, quote unquote bad thing, we wouldn't have this good thing today. Right? But during that bad thing, it doesn't feel great. It can send you in panic mode, right? I've been there. Yeah. That's why I'm saying this is part of the game is like, when you sign up to build a business, you're signing up for both the good and the bad. Yeah. And that's what you have to understand. But it doesn't have to be those bad times, they'll have to, you know, overrun you or completely ruin you. They're they're there to help you learn something to take you to the next steps. And if you understand that, it business is a series of ups and downs. And this too shall pass, you'll be able to get on the other side of it and essentially get your get your business running and good things will happen. So that's kind of me on my motivational rant of understanding. Things will get better. Yeah, just keep pushing through. Blake Beus  22:20  Well, I think along those lines, one of the things that came up while you were saying that was like instead of giving up, ask yourself, How can I do this? How can I continue to deliver on these marketing channels, organic email, whatever, without me having to spend more of my time because time is oftentimes almost always the bottleneck. And we've talked that several times, several times already in this episode. But if you ask yourself that question, there's some really creative solutions that we've already covered a few. I'm sure you could come up with something that we haven't covered here. I did want to circle back to talk about another thing I've seen people do. And I think this is a fantastic option is is especially if you're like a solo business, maybe you're coaching consulting, you're just barely starting out, you don't have any staff or anything yet. You can get a business buddy. And you can help each other out. And you can say, okay, maybe we can trade some services, you're you're better at copywriting. And I'm better at maybe I don't know, building out a page on your website or something, right? Like say, Hey, do you want to maybe just kind of swap some services here. And then you work on the you spend more time with the thing you're comfortable with, you're helping out both businesses grow together. And you're you're helping each other out. But both of you are able to get the things done that you need done. And that's a great way to go about something like that. Plus, you can send each other business back and forth like it's, it's a really, really great situation. Greg Marshall  23:52  This is the time to get creative. And this is the time to negotiate. This is the time to get out of your comfort zone to start working the deals that you need in order for your business to succeed in the long term. And I promise you, if you do that, because I've got pushback before on telling people you should you should try influencer marketing, like it works guaranteed. But usually the pushback is this social media has spoiled us in a way where we are able to hide behind, you know our computers and our cell phones and everything else to avoid the fact that there's a level of entrepreneurship is a level of salesmanship. Right? And you have to sell Yeah, and reaching out to influencers reaching out to people and trying to work deals. The option of getting told no. is available and because of that, that's usually the spot people stay away from Yeah, right. But because most people stay away from that, that's also where the opportunity lies. Yep. So if you can just push yourself to go, I feel dumb. putting myself out there, someone tells me no or someone says a bad idea. And you can just keep going and try. You're gonna get some pretty sweet deals out there that most people will not get. Because 98% of people want to avoid sales like the plague. I want to do anything that has the option of you getting told no, or you being viewed as a perceived failure in front of other people. Yeah, right. And that's the key. And if you can just get over that, and push through that and train yourself to go, it's okay. If someone tells me No. And it's okay. If I reach out to 20 people and only to respond back that one deal can change everything. Yeah. So I'm here to say, get out the comfort zone. And it put the sales hat on and yep. And get it done. Yeah, absolutely. So let's, Blake Beus  25:58  let's wrap all this up in a in a nice, nice, neat package, and kind of just summarize what we've talked about so far. Number one, stick with it, stay motivated, changes like this, with iOS 14, or whatever, are an opportunity. And also changes like this are not going away, you're going to hear people next year saying, Gosh, the stuff that worked in 2022 doesn't work anymore. With advertising, ah, you're gonna, you're gonna hear that every time every year, you're gonna hear that so. So the, if you can stick with it, considered an opportunity, find a way to work through it, you're going to be better off in the long run. Number two, get creative with how you can get these things done, delegate some stuff out there, find a business buddy, reach out to a local group, maybe find someone that can help you for two or three hours a week. And, and help you kind of coordinate and organize some of these things. They can help with writing the posts, they can help with posting the posts, whatever is your bottleneck. Find someone to help with that. And there's lots and lots and lots of freelancers in just about any city that that can help you with that. You just need to test a few of them out, find find someone that works. Focus on like a holistic marketing strategy. Don't forget about email. If you're doing just organic, maybe dip your toes in some ads, if you're doing just ads, dip your toes in some organic. repurpose content. Yep. If you're posting stuff on social media, you can use that same content with minor tweaks or even no tweaks in email, or, or elsewhere. And then we talked about repurposing content, feel free to just repost that same stuff on LinkedIn, or Pinterest or whatever, it's totally fine to have the exact same content on multiple platforms, because the audiences are slightly different. And if someone's a fan of yours, they're not going to get ticked off exactly that. Oh, my gosh, they're posting the same stuff on LinkedIn that I saw on their Instagram account earlier. unfollow, that doesn't happen. But I feel like people are afraid. Yeah, it's gonna happen. Greg Marshall  28:04  Because Because that's like, a sales situation. Someone can tell, you know, and verify that you're a terrible person. Blake Beus  28:12  I think that's a good summary. Did I miss anything? Greg Marshall  28:14  No, I think I think that covers it. I mean, I think the biggest thing is just look at writing right now is a good opportunity to advance your business and different ways that you didn't think before, this is where the fun begins. And this is where if you push through it, 12 months from now, you'll say, Wow, I'm much better off, I'm doing better. And if I did I get forced to make these changes. I would have never got to the spot that I'm in today. Yep. So this is good. I know, if people are struggling with it. Just keep pushing through. Think creatively. Reach out to people to help you out partner with people. And I think you'll be good to go. So I think until next time. Blake Beus  28:55  We'll we'll see you guys next time. Absolutely. How do people get in touch with you, Greg? Greg Marshall  28:59  Go to Greg And you can book a free strategy session with me and what about you Blake Beus  29:04  just flip the stock calm. And you can check out my SM3 group in there that Greg's going to soon be a part of. And basically, the SM3 group can kind of help you with the organic side of things get you 80 to 90% there of yours with your strategy and help you create. We create templates and things like that, that that can help you with diversifying your strategy. So definitely check that out. Greg Marshall  29:32  Well, until next time, we'll talk to you guys later. All right, bye.  

Wednesday Apr 13, 2022

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript Blake Beus  0:00  All right. Let's do this. Let's talk we're we're gonna talk about testing. Yes, yeah, yeah. And because we bring it up a lot, but we kind of realize we haven't talked specifically how to test and testing is one of those things, at least I've noticed that it's really easy to go way overboard on and stress about every little intricacy of the test, or to just say, Screw it, am I gonna test and I tend to be the kind of person that when I first started, I want to go overboard. Sure. But I've realized that's not helpful. So let's, let's just talk about testing. And it doesn't have to be just ads, you can test in other ways, as well. So so let's let's dive into well, Greg Marshall  0:51  here's a simple way that I like to use test it to not drive yourself crazy. And it's actually testing audiences. So when I say testing, I tend to think, test the audience testing the who, to me is more important than the what? Okay, so meaning, if I can figure out the right audience, that basically, the offer, and a lot of the other things on the back end doesn't have to be perfect. And without saying client names, we kind of discussed someone I showed you earlier. Yeah, before we hit record of how the ad is not even in the quote unquote formulaic way that all the Guru's teach. It's a very simple, straightforward ABA, because we're talking to the right person. It works. Yeah. And so when I, when I say testing, I'm referring to high levels of testing the audience. Because I know if I can make an audience work with a very average offer, or ad copy or ad creative, then it you just start digging deeper into that audience and then go, how do I make this offer? And I create all that better? Because now I know I'm talking to the right person. Right? Does that make sense? So that's how I like to view testing. How were you testing in the past? You said, you may have been overdoing it. What, what was kind of your testing protocol? Blake Beus  2:23  Yeah, yeah. So I have a tech background. And one of the ways we used to do testing was very scientific before I left the corporate world. And we would do basically split testing on landing pages, okay, or on home pages of our site. And so we would basically divert half the traffic to one experience, half the traffic would see the other experience, and then we would get our results. And we would measure that result. And we would get good, really good results. A lot of the time. For example, one of the results, we got a 20% lift for this financial institution, which extrapolated out to a year meant an additional $780,000 to their bottom line on this split test that we did. But when I hopped over into the small business space advertising space, trying to split up audiences to make sure there's no overlap and make sure the test was clean. And you're from a statistical standpoint, is is maddening. And it's not helpful. Like it's not getting you really great data. Because the because I feel like the audiences are shifting like it's, it's you're trying to hit this moving target all the time, right, because you've probably noticed this one test you can run last month will will perform different this month. Sure. And I think one of the reasons why testing audiences specifically is kind of like the main thing you should be testing, like you're saying is because of the the fluidity of audiences. And what I mean by that is, people are entering this audience and leaving this audience all the time. Right. And a lot of a lot of people don't realize that. Like, I didn't think about that, right. When I said, Hey, I want an audience that have people that are, you know, 35 to 45, and live in this area and are interested in a golf. Yep. Right. Well, new people enter that age range all the time. People leave that age range all the time, new people in that age range. express interest in golf. Yep. People stop expressing interest in golf. And so the audience is, is flowing. Yeah. Right. And so, when, when I was trying to do this very scientific test and make sure there's no audience overlap and all these things, I would get results, but then those results didn't scale or didn't perform. Again. Yep. Right. Like they weren't concern system. If I ran the test again, I would get different results. Yep. Greg Marshall  5:02  Well, and I think one of the ways to explain what it sounds like, what you're doing, and this comes from your engineer training mine, right, I think is, you know, one plus one should equal two. Yeah. Right. So you so essentially, what you're saying is like, when you're running tests, you are making the assumption that every time the ad is showed, it's always Blake. And Greg, yes. Yeah. And it's, and it's the same person. So that's the correct way to test if the person was the same. The problem is, because these audiences are changing. Is this kind of what you're saying is, yeah, because audiences changing your know, like, today's test is Blake and Greg, tomorrow's test, maybe, Joe and John. Yeah. And so it's, and we fit the same exact criteria, we're texting, we're not tackling the same verse. Blake Beus  5:54  No, you're, you're technically, you're definitely different peoples. Greg Marshall  5:57  And that's what you're saying, right? That's gonna apply as well. Yeah, you were trying to isolate it in a way that it can't be constant, because the people are interchanging. Blake Beus  6:07  And it was incredibly difficult and time consuming to ensure that that isolation was happening correctly, and ensure that the data was getting reported back correctly. And then it wasn't super actionable, because the tests weren't. You couldn't repeat the results. Like it didn't work. Greg Marshall  6:24  The other challenge that I have seen, and I've tested that too, with you many times, and you know, other clients, myself, one, because I believe in the testing methodologies, like you should always be testing always no matter what. And one of the things that I noticed is what anytime I try to put too many exclusions on it, it seems like the ad platform would have a hard time actually spending the money. Yeah, like, or a wouldn't spend it as quickly. So it takes a longer time to get the data Blake Beus  6:58  or your CPMs go through the roof or so. And so you're seeing for the amount of money you're spending, you're getting in front of fewer people, and therefore it's less significant data, if that's what you're aiming for. And so Greg Marshall  7:12  there's cost could be two or even three times more expensive, right? Doing it that way, which it would be okay. If it was like a consistent person, right, like consistent audience that never changes, but because it's always changing, it might not be the best way for that particular strategy. Blake Beus  7:33  In my opinion. Yeah, absolutely. And when and when you're, you know, one of the things I had to realize is when I was doing like, split testing on pages, for these companies I was working for the people coming to the page were literally the same people over and over and over again, because they would log in and, and it was in the financial industry. So they would log in and do some online banking and stuff. And so it was literally the same people over and over and over again. But when you hop over into the advertising space, and you're trying to get new people that you've not dealt with before, the the data is more fuzzy, and you need to start thinking instead of saying, Okay, what's working for? What's working for this audience, you maybe need to shift and say, How is the audience targeting with the platform's algorithm working? Yeah, is more what it is because the people are flowing through that audience targeting? So if I do this audience targeting inside of Google's ad platform versus, you know, targeting a versus targeting B? How does that targeting, you know, algorithmically perform, as opposed to how do those specific people perform? Because those people are moving in and out? Yep. Greg Marshall  8:48  So it's like a river? Yeah, it's just just flowing. And I think testing audiences to me, is, is what I like to test the most to discover winning people, or at least winning indicators in the algorithm, to then try to test new offers, once I figure out that this type of audience seems to perform for whatever reason, right? I don't try to get too deep into it just for whatever reason, these type of indicators, if I tell the algorithm tends to give me the result I want, once I figure that I keep getting the same result. I focus heavier on what I'm showing them. Blake Beus  9:31  Yeah. That I think that's a good distinction. You're You're essentially, when you're testing audiences inside an ad platform, you're actually testing how well those indicators work. Yep. And that's a much more important thing from like an algorithm based perspective. Are these indicators tagging the correct kind of people that resonate with this offer? I don't need to know necessarily necessarily, who the people are, but is this indicator of good indicator that they're my right kind of Yep. People Greg Marshall  10:02  Exactly. And I think that's, that's kind of an easier way. And even a long term way to train, you know, they say train your pixel or train your ad account, whatever they say, to train anything. Think is really just think of it as how do I give the right information like the competitor, I guess the what does it the analogy that I tell clients, when I tried to explain to them, what we're trying to do with their ad accounts, is I always refer back to real people. Yeah. And I say, look at your ad account as like an employee, what you're trying to do is you're trying to tell that employee what you want. And what a lot of people do is they're not training that employee to tell them, I want purchases, or I want leads or whatever. And they're not giving them any information. They're sending them out blind. So it's like if you had a business, and he said, Hey, I want to hire a sales rep, to go sell my products, but I'm not going to give him any information, I'm just going to send them out there and hope for the best. That's That's how most people were utilizing their ad accounts with not trying to find the right indicators and keep communicating that those are the right indicators to the ad account, so that they can actually find the perfect person. Blake Beus  11:19  Right. And I think I think that's a great analogy. Because what it's because that employee is basically interpreting what you say, into their own kind of internal dialogue. Yep. And the algorithm does the same thing. So I don't know, I know, You've trained people as well, I've trained new employees and things as well. And almost every time it's like, I'll say, This is what I want. But their interpretation was different. And that's not their fault, necessarily. That's because I'm making a bunch of assumptions. Yeah, based on what they already understand, correct. And so I have to restate thing. But that also helps me further understand, you know, what, what I'm wanting as well, but the algorithm is doing the same thing. It's saying, you're telling me I want this particular audience, and it's reinterpreting it to say, well, here, here's those people, but that may not actually be what you're getting at. And so it's this communication Greg Marshall  12:12  exam. And you know, the funny thing is, the reason why I made this analogy, is because it reminds me there's actually specific life situations that are replaying in my mind, as I explained this, when I worked for a big box gym early, like it was my think second job was 23, maybe. So they would send me out to go get people to sign up for the gym. But they would give me no information about what type of person Yeah, they just wanted me to go out there. So I'm in parking lots of target. And Walmart, Best Buy, I was that guy, like literally talking to cold strangers interrupting their day to get them in. And I think of it as because they didn't tell me who to talk to. It's highly inefficient. Yeah. And so when I was working there, I figured out a way to basically not do that, and focus on more referral generation, and more, trying to be more specific. So I don't waste seven, eight hours of my day, in a place with unqualified people, because I'm not being told who the best prospect is. So when I give that analogy, I'm literally thinking of, like, Whatever you do, do not send Greg out there to just random places and just say, make it happen. Oh, because it's just it's not as efficient as going out there and say, Hey, only talk to these types of people, because they would be the right fit for a gym. Blake Beus  13:39  Yeah, oh, man, you just use brought back some traumatic experience as a used to sell auto insurance. We would literally open the phone book. And we will open the phone book and check if they're on the Do Not Call list and then call them if they weren't on the Do Not yet list. And that's I would do that for hours and hours and hours a day. And I did that for several months. And I'm guessing you could guess how many people I got to sign up for car insurance, probably very little 00 literally got zero people signing up for you, Molly. And that's what I was told to do. And they gave me a script to read and everything and it just didn't work. Greg Marshall  14:21  Well. And here's the interesting thing. We can apply that to how people run the ads. They gave you a script, that's the equivalent of making the ad. But you aren't talking to the right person? Nope. So therefore that ad doesn't work. Yep. It's not that it doesn't work ever. It's that it's not going to work. If I'm not giving you a list of people that you should be talking to no. Right. And that circles back around. That's basically you're trying to do your ad accounts because you're looking for indicators of audiences or pockets of people that you can give positive reinforcement back to the employee, the Google ad or the YouTube or the Facebook ad saying, and you notice by training people, they get a result that you like, you better make sure you remind them and tell them, Oh, I liked this result. Yeah, keep go after more people just like this, because this is exactly what we want. Now that helps guide the persons who go after more of those people, and then the likelihood of you getting more is significantly higher. Yeah. Because now you're actually, you see, I'm saying that you're actually like, reinforcing the behavior. Yeah. So that's, that's essentially what you're trying to do with these guys. That's why, or in any ad platform. That's why I recommend test audience. Yeah, the indicators as you put it, Blake Beus  15:41  okay. So, before we wrap this up, let's talk about how you structure an ad campaign from a high level view. I mean, we could talk about specific ad platforms, Google, Facebook, whatever, to to test these audiences without driving yourself nuts, like I was doing. Greg Marshall  16:00  Yeah. So the way I like to test the audiences is very simple. I just have one campaign tied to one audience, as is essentially as simple as possible, like one ad group, one ad set, have the campaign, I like to label the campaign, the audience requires even less of me going deep. So I can quickly just glance and see like how it's performing. And then all I do is I don't worry about overlap. I don't worry about any of that. I just think of themes, and I themed. And then I just run the test. And I'll do really my goal is to do as many as possible, the faster I want to know what the results are the more campaigns on launch at once, and I'll do them at low dollar spend. So they're not like, obviously, you're not spent like 10,000 on low dollar campaigns a lot at a time to quickly get what works, what doesn't. And then I just take the winning kind of aspects of those audiences. And then I relaunch again, and then I have them go against each other. And then I keep doing that to figure out what are the right pockets? But essentially, I don't feel like I go crazy, because I just run a whole bunch of them with the with the intent. Number one, the budgets are low, so you don't have budget anxiety. Wow, a lot need to figure this out. And number two, I basically just say, give it three or four days before I do anything. Yeah. So I have to train myself. And I would recommend anyone else like literally, once you launch them, just pretend they don't exist for three or four days. Yeah. And then look at it. Yeah, that's that's how I keep myself sane. Yeah. Blake Beus  17:39  Yeah. See, and to contrast to what I was doing, I was adding exclusions or and Facebook has now has this split test feature, which guarantees the audiences are going to be completely separate. And, honestly, that's not for you. Unless you're spending hundreds of 1000s of dollars a year, you're gonna get worse results using the split testing feature, every time. Yep. Right. And so that's really only for big brands that have massive budgets. And so I wouldn't even worry about touching that. But that's what I was trying to do. I was adding these exclusions, I was trying to guarantee that we're testing a, you know, an audience, and I'm excluding when I'm creating custom audiences, and excluding them from one another to make sure that we're not overlapping. And and it was absolutely maddening. And then the results were all over the place and not repeatable. Yeah, and I think Greg Marshall  18:33  the thing that you're you're explaining is the thinking you're using is the right thinking, I believe, and the right setting, it's just that these algorithms, I don't think support that thinking because they're kind of unpredictable and then change. That's, I think, that's one of the reasons why exclusions and isolating things too much can be a challenge is because what works in the algorithm today, or tomorrow and Blake Beus  19:02  we've talked about this before, what it whenever you're dealing with an algorithm, you want to make it as easy as possible for that algorithm to do its job. And when you start adding in exclusions, and, and and things like that, you're making it harder for the algorithm to identify which people fit into your target your targeting audience. And, and therefore, if it's harder for the algorithm to do its job, it's not going to do as good of a job getting the right people and your CPMs are gonna go up, your costs are gonna go up all of that stuff. Yeah. And I think Greg Marshall  19:37  overall to the there is a trade off that and this I'm happy rather because there's like a, like a silent agreement that I make with myself, which is, am I willing to make this trade off? It's a question that I like to ask, which is, I could be absolutely exact, but then drive myself crazy. Yeah. Or I can just be a Little bit more loose and it's not 100% exact, but I don't go crazy. Yeah, that's that's like a silent kind of contract that I made with myself. Yeah, when I'm testing so that I know like not to get worked up about it because in the past I've had, it's where it's like if I don't get exact, I feel like this like I don't feel at ease. And that that can you know, we had this conversation before at a lunch once about the marketers anxiety Oh, yeah, it literally if if you're not intentional about what you're doing and paying attention to, you know what, what could trigger it what the risk are, you could literally just be like, in pure panic mode all day long. Oh, yeah. And if you'd like, drive you insane, Blake Beus  20:42  absolutely insane, especially when you're trying to scale and you're spending, you know, higher dollar amounts and things like that, like that anxiety is real. And it can cause you, your business, whatever to kind of choke, you know, and not not be able to function because you're so worried about this one aspect of your business, that it's, it's just not, it's just not worth it. Greg Marshall  21:02  So make the trade off the trade off should just be you want to keep your sanity while you're doing this. And so just understand Sakana be super exact. And that is okay, as long as like, from a high level, all the numbers are working, and your business is growing the way you want it to be okay with that? Yeah. So that's, that's my advice for, for testing is have a healthy trade off. That's what you're doing. Yeah, just so you don't drive yourself crazy. Yeah. Blake Beus  21:32  And then the other thing I'd like to say when it comes to testing, a lot of people don't think about this. But I think more people need to branch out on which platforms there are. So one thing you could test right now is an audience in Facebook. And that same same audience or as close you can get in in Google or YouTube or, or somewhere else, or tick tock or something. Right, like, branch out and see. And you you might you might be surprised. I mean, you were telling me just today about one of your clients who has traditionally done nothing but Facebook, yes. And you said, Hey, let's hop over in and run some YouTube ads. And they are floored with the results. Because apparently their audiences chillin over on YouTube. And yeah, so much on Facebook right now, higher quality Greg Marshall  22:20  leads, higher conversion rates, higher average order values, higher lifetime value, potential lifetime value. They've Blake Beus  22:27  been doing stuff in Facebook for years and years or whatever, right? They've been running Greg Marshall  22:30  Facebook ads for four years, four years. So they're not like, they did Facebook one month. And then they just decided to because it didn't work in one month, they switch. They've had success with Facebook ads for years. But they noticed that their CPMs are getting higher, and the quality of the person was different target with them. So I suggested to make a move, and at least test another platform. And he's getting great results. And I think the moral of the story is, that's why you should always test and never slow down as far as like testing for platforms and one platform and maybe revisit it a couple weeks later. But you should always be testing different platforms, different audiences, so that you can figure out if something changes, you're able to move, and it almost doesn't impact. It's like diversifying. Yes. Yeah. Blake Beus  23:25  All right. And then the last thing I really wanted to bring up and this this is my opinion, and I actually haven't actually asked you this before, but I feel like people when they're first hopping into ADS, one of the very first things they want to test is something like men versus women, sure, or age ranges, you know, 35 to 45 versus, you know, 76 or whatever. Yeah, and in my opinion, unless your business is very specific, yes. To the needs of an age or a gender. In my opinion, that is like the worst way. Yes. The worst way to cheat test audience. Yeah. What do you think? Yeah, Greg Marshall  24:04  I would say, and it depends, right? Because the type of product like if it's a women's product, right, I mean, obviously, you want to test women, and how many of you could have manicures met with goodbye for and I've done that. But typically, you know, whatever the product is the way you test it, you just got to figure out like, could both genders purchases? And the other question you have to ask yourself, and so this is why I actually test these types of things sometimes against each other is Am I making assumptions? That are incorrect. Yeah, I made the assumption before, like, on some of the ads were, well, I'm just going to exclude other placements or only have it mobile or only have a desktop or only have this or don't have it on TV or whatever. Right. I found that the more I kind of keep it open, the better. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like because I'm not forcing it's kind of a level of a exclusions. I'm not forcing you to, like, I'm not telling the employee to only do one thing, right? Yeah, I'm actually giving it breathing room and trusting like you should trust an employee for them to figure it out. Yeah. Right. And that's, that's what I found is, the more you can keep it to where it does include both genders. Most age ranges, the better. I've seen it. Blake Beus  25:24  Yeah. So yeah. And so what we're talking about specifically, here are interests interest based are a good place to start. Each platform has kind of their own unique things within YouTube, you can you can test based on what channels people are interested in, or whatever. So if there's a channel with a topic that's completely relevant to your product, or whatever, right, you can test based on that. Facebook has based on other interest groups and things you can test based on. You know, income, yep. Right. Facebook kind of sucks with that. But Google tends to be a better based on on in in, I feel Greg Marshall  26:03  like that's an understatement. Yeah, I feel like it's significantly more accurate than Facebook. Blake Beus  26:09  Yeah. And so, so look like literally look into those targeting options, and at least get familiar with what's available in each platform, and come up with some creative ways to test those. Greg Marshall  26:20  So yeah, so I guess to end this podcast, make sure you're testing test often. And that's the main job of a media buyer. Blake Beus  26:31  All right, well, Greg, how can people get in touch with you Greg Marshall  26:33  go to my website, Greg, you can book a free strategy session call. Blake Beus  26:37  And for me just go to Blake The SM3 Group for social media marketing is like a group kind of marketing thing where we help put together posts and things for you. That's the main kind of thing Greg Marshall  26:50  and be able to look out Blake and I got some cool plans coming out for that program. Yes, Blake Beus  26:53  we do. So yeah. Be Be on the lookout and we'll we'll let you know when those things drop. All right. We'll Greg Marshall  26:58  talk to you guys later. Okay. Bye.  

Thursday Mar 31, 2022

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript   Blake Beus  0:01  And we're good ready to go? Let's do this. Alright, so I'm going to start off with just Yes. Just asking you asking you this directly. Blake Beus  0:12  We've all had this clients come to us say I want the cheapest traffic possible. I like where can I get my cost per click as low as possible? And and how can I spend the least on ads as possible? And that seems like a simple question with a simple answer, but it's not. We were talking about that and why? Greg Marshall  0:35  You just told me. Yeah, this may be not a good idea to look for the cheapest traffic it Yeah. So in fact, I think it's a, in most cases, it's a bad strategy. Not every case. But most and the reason for and I think it also depends on your industry, but usually there's a direct correlation with the costs for traffic or cost per lead, and the quality of leads. So think of it like this, if you want, because I get this from clients a lot. And I know you have to where clients will say, I want to only target people with money. Right? Okay. You go. Yeah, well, of course, so does the rest of the world. Yeah, business. Everyone wants that client that will spend the most money without thinking about it. Right. So what what does that mean? That means everyone's going after that person, which means all these work and auction, you're going to be spending more money, yeah, per click. And your CPM, your cost for the actual impressions will be much higher. With that being said, you should actually look at that as a positive side. Yeah. Because if you can make those higher cost per clicks, higher CPMs work, you're going to I mean, your conversion rate is going to be high. And if you have a good lifetime value and customer is going to be worth it. The math works out. It's just a lot of times we become obsessed with the cost per whatever we're doing right? At almost at the detriment of how quality those are. Right, right. If I got you 100 leads for $1. Or I got you two leads for $50. You spent 100 bucks on each, but one of them gets zero conversions, and the other one gets one for $10,000. Which, which one would you prefer the one for $10,000 every time every time but what happens and this goes into something that we've talked about? What happens is businesses don't know their numbers. And so they actually just use other people's kind of results to like gauge them on what they should be doing. But they don't even know their own business numbers. Yeah. On whether they should be trying to scale or if they're winning if they're losing. Blake Beus  2:50  Right. Right. Well, I think one of the key things I want to pull out one, one phrase you said in there is, you basically said if if you have a high lifetime value for your customer, and that's, in my mind, whenever I've had this conversation with any clients, or anybody talking about advertising, it always boils down to lifetime value. And usually, people aren't thinking super long term when they're when they approached me with this specific question, I want the lowest cost traffic, lowest cost per click possible. They're not, they're usually not thinking long term. And I oftentimes will tell them, well, it's usually easier, more profitable and less stressful to increase the lifetime value of your customer base than it is to go try to find the cheapest traffic possible and make that profitable. Yep. And, and so people tend to have that backwards just a little bit. So one of the things I liked to talk about with them was depending on the model, how can we increase that lifetime value, so that we can spend the most per click out of anybody out there out there in the industry? Because if we can be insanely prospect profitable to a point where we can spend more money than anybody else on each click, then you win every pain out there. Greg Marshall  4:12  Well, and the other thing is this, the competitive advantage is, everyone else doesn't have the stomach. If you do to pay that cost per click yes, they're focusing on how do I get a lower cost per foot versus how to get a higher lifetime value. So what ends up happening as it almost becomes a game of like, who can outlast the other? So it's like, can I deal with a $30 cost per click longer than my competitor can like, does that make them nervous? And they stop? Yeah, and I keep going right? If I keep going? I win. Yeah. Yeah. Because I know they're going to be thinking about how do I get cheaper cost per clicks, which that's really the wrong question asked and this what drove me to this thought was actually I had a conversation with a client yesterday. And he was he right now he was getting, he was slightly profit on new customers coming in. And he was actually asking, which is good, right? He was asking me, How do I get more customers? My response was, spend more No, right. But he was well, I don't know if I want to do that I want how can we get the cost per purchase? To go down? Right? And I said, Well, why would you be worried about that? If you're not? Like, if you're actually slightly profit on the front end? What is your concern? Your real job is not to be profitable on the first time customer, right? Your real job is to build a business. And there's a difference between customer acquisition and a business. Right, see a business's think of Starbucks, Amazon, you think they you think they're trying to get new customers for $1? And trying to make money off that? Absolutely not? Because that would actually cause them not to be some of the richest companies in the world, right? Because their lifetime value, they want you to buy coffee forever. They consider customer acquisition and expense. Right? They don't plan on making money on customer acquisition. All of their marketing and advertising campaigns are not to make money on new customer acquisition. Yeah, in fact, anyone who tries to make money on new customer acquisition will be small and stay small forever, right? Because there's basically it's, it's, it's a myth, it's a fantasy. And what what actually triggered this conversation, which I thought was funny, because I was like, Okay, this gives me a glimpse into the mindset of how some businesses or maybe many businesses are actually viewing this. So he had told me, yeah, I spoke to someone and like, shouldn't we be getting cost per purchases? And this is on a $75. Okay, shouldn't we be getting cost for purchases at like, $3 $2? Maybe? And you laugh, because he could see how ridiculous That's right. Yeah. And I was like, in my past, I'm trying to get better at this. Basically just telling people, no, that's not gonna work. So can we get it for two or three? I mean, instead of and right now we're paying off of purchase at 25. Blake Beus  7:29  Okay, for 75? For seven, yeah, I'd Greg Marshall  7:31  be I'd be thrilled with those results. That's, that's, that's a 3x return on the cold new first. That's insane. Like, that's really good. So that's working right. Now. The question was, well, how do we get it to $3 a forearm and basically says we don't, right, and it won't happen? Or if it did, you can't scale it. So I said, whoever is telling you that you can do that is probably only sharing the numbers of like how much you can get an existing customer to reconvert. While simultaneously using a tiny budget. Yeah. So if you spend like $5 a day, you can do that. But Blake Beus  8:11  but it's not sustainable. You might have one day where you do that. But the next day, you might not you might have like four or five days, because you're just not reaching enough people exact right. So if you do get one purchase on that one day, they will be like, Hey, I got a $75 purchase for three bucks. Yep. But that's not reality. Greg Marshall  8:29  Well, and something that the light bulb went off in his head when we were speaking, which I thought was like, Okay, I need to keep it actually helped me because I was like, I need to communicate this harder to people. So they understand that they're actually missing out on opportunity. I said, So, if you're spending $5 a day, you're getting that return. But you know, you're only reaching What 500 People was on 300, maybe? Maybe 1000, Blake Beus  8:56  maybe, maybe 1000. It may got really good CPM, right? But most likely not. No. I said, there's absolutely no way you can ever scale that particular result that audience because it's too small. So you couldn't spend $5 a day and jump it up to 50. Because then it would just, you would have no return or negative returns because you'd be spending way too much for that size of audience. And for me, I always think, okay, so you want let's make the numbers easy. You want you're getting a $25 cost per purchase on a 75? Well, let's make it $100 product. Let's just make this really easy. Okay, so $100 product, you're making 20 $25 cost per purchase on $100 product, and you want that down for let's say $10. Yeah, right. What you're really asking is how can I get a 10x return on this investment? Not how can I get a cheaper cost per purchase? The real result is How can I 10x my money here? Yeah, and the answer that is well, let's come up with some additional products and service Just to offer people that have already purchased, you already paid the $25. Yep. For that $100 purchase, if we want to Tenex that, how can we turn that, that customer now into a $250? Customer, and now we've text, exactly, we didn't compromise our customer acquisition? It's right. And so that's really what people need to think about. And a lot of people look a lot of businesses there, this is maybe falling out of vogue right now. But there were a few years ago, there were all these, like, find my $1,000 course. And we're going to show you how to how to how to how to, you know, 5x, or 10x your ad spend on a product or whatever, right? And, and the reality is, if that's all you're thinking about, you're not building a business that's going to last and you're building a business that's completely dependent on this one advertising strategy. And as soon as the algorithm change, or as soon as some competition hits, you're going to struggle, because real businesses focus on customer acquisition, and then long term sustainability, revenue, sustainability and customer value, then just the initial sale, the initial sale is like I said, an expense. It's not a business. Yeah. And the other thing is this. And he made me think of a phrase you could tie with that. So if you're wondering, how do I get a cheaper cost per purchase? What you're really asking is, how do I make my business smaller? Because what in order to achieve that you would have to niche your audience down so small, that you're only talking to the absolute, hottest audience, which is only so big, right? And you'll burn through that audience pretty fast? And and then where do you go from there? And to kind of expand on that? If you have any aspirations of doing $10,000 A month or award sales? On your online store? You can kiss that goodbye? If you're trying to get 10x. Yeah, trying to get on Excuse me, excuse me, you're trying to reduce your cost per purchases to a number that's so low, right? You could forget about ever exceeding $10,000. Absolutely. Now, that being said, it's still a worthwhile exercise to say, can we find a way to take this existing campaign and get a little bit better cost per purchase. And that's where split testing comes in, where you start testing different creatives, headlines, different videos, maybe change up some wording on your landing page, or something like that. Or maybe you tweak the offer just a little bit to sweeten the pot? Yeah, all of those things can reduce your cost, cost per purchase. But it's also a realistic thing. Basically, all you're doing is you're playing around with your customer acquisition costs, and trying to onload onboard as many people as you can into your business. But you got to be reasonable, you're not going to get those cost per purchase for a buck. And you're able to spend, you know, $20,000 a month on advertising issues and maintain that you can't it's just really, I've never really been one to say something's impossible. Yeah. But I feel pretty confident about that one. To get, you know, $5 $3 purchases on especially anything 24 hours or more, at a big scale is going to be very challenging, right. Borderline boss. Yeah, that's, that's basically what I want to say is, if you want more stability, Greg Marshall  13:37  don't play that game. Yeah. Play the How can I increase my repeat purchases? Faster? More regularly? How can I get one customer by every month, several times a month? In three days? Buy more? How can I upsell them at the point of sale, play that game, right? Instead of lowering cost per purchase, because that will be literally like a hamster wheel. You will just be running on this wheel in search. It's like you're in search of gold, right? Like you heard that there's a treasure map somewhere. And that there's gold that you can find the promise it might be out there, but it may take your whole life to find it. Blake Beus  14:15  And you might even hear a story. You might even hear a story of someone that did that. Yep. But the thing is, is oftentimes those are the statistical outliers, the anomalies that that they themselves probably couldn't even repeat that it's it's, I wouldn't say winning the lottery or whatever. But it's you said Gold Rush, right. Like you had a gold rush. You had all these people had out to you know, California looking for gold. And the reality was, is that a handful of people that were there at the right place in the right time. did make a ton of money. Yep. But the people that made consistent money were the people that sold the shovels. So the equipment provided provided the tools and things for long term sustainability on They're on their business. So yeah, I mean, I did want to talk really quick about cost per click on Google search results within, if you want to move on, I would love to talk about different ways people can expand maybe a little bit more detail, their average customer value. So cost cost per click, like a lot of people, especially when they start hopping into Google Search Ads. They're blown away. They're like, I'm spending how much per click in Facebook, I'm spending it to $2 per click. But in Google, I'm spending 20. What what is with that? And it's it's a different methodology. And we've talked about this before, where we've talked about intent, yes. And Facebook is, if you see something while you're scrolling through your feed, your intent is passive. Like, you might have a passing interest in whatever is going on there. When you're doing a Google search, and looking for something specific, and you see those click Results, your intent is very high. If I'm hopping in there, I'm searching you know, roofing guys in northern Utah. Yeah, I'm ready right now to get some quotes on my roof speak to some Utah roofer. And that intent is good and, and the profitability for roofing company. I mean, I had my roof done a couple years ago. And it was almost $20,000 for them to do the roof. And so you're thinking, okay, yeah, they have some overhead material, whatever, but the profitability on that is easily worth a $50. Click. Yep. Right. Like if they can get their $50 Click for a free consultation, they'll drive around out there the same day. I mean, we had someone come the same day, I scheduled a consultation. And they showed up and gave me an estimate, looked at everything showed me the damage took pictures. I mean, they really treated us Yeah, because they knew that that would be a profitable thing. So the cost per click is extremely relative based on intent, and profitability and things like that. Greg Marshall  17:03  Well, the other there seems to be a correlation also, with, and I've tested this a lot. So the cheaper leads seem to not like I've heard people on Facebook, right? But hey, when I do Facebook, lead ads, I can't ever get ahold of people, or I'm getting leads from Facebook, but for some reason, they're not working. Right. And you hear that, and you and you go Alright, well, they're usually getting leads at $5 or seven $8. Right. But then if you get the leads that cost 50 100. Those people almost always answer the phone and agree to do an appointment. Yeah, almost always like not kind of, almost always. So you can almost make the correlation that the more money you spend to acquire the lead, the higher likelihood that person will get on the phone. Or meet you in person. Yeah. And the lower you spend, right, so the Blake Beus  18:10  you know, let's say you get the $2 leads or whatever, you're not going to get all in because that's almost like a direct reflection of how committed that lead probably actually. Right. Right. And I've got a personal experience with this. Right, like, so I have my SM three group, it's a monthly membership. And then the the very first product launch was my social media content plan. And I used to sell it for almost 50 bucks. And and we just ran cold traffic ads to that, Greg, that's when you and I started working together brought you in because I was like overwhelmed and stressed about everything. And, and that was going good to competition, hit algorithms changed all that stuff. So we kind of switched up the offer and came up with this monthly membership, which is super great. But then I took that $50 product and switched it over to a free lead, right to just get people on my email list and try them and try to market to them. And I was getting leads for 50 cents lower than my cost per click on the purchase outs. Yep. And I didn't have a single one of them convert. I spent several $100 to test that out. Not one of them converted they and in fact most of them unsubscribed after everything. So it was like okay, well, that didn't work. But it's it's true. Sometimes the cheaper it was it was a really juicy lead. And I think that's why I was able to get it so fast. But none of them converted over to the monthly membership. My other customers that paid me the $50 and then I email marketing to them. They hopped over and join the membership. And so it's all about kind of playing around with that and making sure you're getting the people with the right intent and align up to the correct people. But that initial offer was one that people were like, well, I just want this I'll just put my email in here and then get this thing for free and it's good enough and I don't need to do anything else with it. You know, Blake and this or whatever Greg Marshall  20:02  I think to to, and I fallen victim to this thinking just like anyone else, right? Where initially you think you talk to clients and everyone, you want to give them what they want the cheapest lead the cheapest color for this. So you go okay, well, we'll do that versus saying, getting their mindset to change to go. Are we here to build a business? Are we here to try to, you know, try a fad? Yeah, right? If we're here to build a business we should be looking at these are, how we're doing everything different, right from the quality of the lead up front, to how we can upsell them to the lifetime value verse and let's not worry so much about a cheap lead or cheap foot. And let's worry more about a quality, the higher quality leads and the higher quality prospects because I can tell you right now, I remember acquiring a customer I was talking about right for him. I believe his acquisition cost was about $600 to get him. This is like four years ago. Yeah. And he's been with me since Yeah. So for four years, and he's been paying me a lot of money. So that $600 was well worth it. I've gotten leads where they were well, cheaper than that. Yeah, that they stay on for one month, or they're not that serious or whatever. And they're done. Right. So there's a Yeah, you get what you pay Blake Beus  21:33  for bases. Really, it really is that and it is interesting, one other anecdotal thing, and then we can move on to how to increase the lifetime value. Or do you remember when we decided to do a flash sale on my $50 product? Right? We did this flash sale for three days, and we bumped it all the way down to seven bucks. Yep. Right. And on cold traffic at a $7 price point. We did a 2x row as on cold traffic. For those three days, this flash sale. And I was thinking great. Well, maybe this is something we could do. Yep, long term. I had way more my my refund requests, as a percentage went up by about 30 or 40%. Because, frankly, they're just cheap. Yeah, customers. Yeah, they're, they're not the quality of customers that I wanted. So people were spending $50 for this thing, but those that converted at seven, were way more picky. And only it picked every little thing about it and said, Well, I didn't like the design or whatever. So refund me. And it says it was a Digital Profit got to keep it for free. So I had a lot of people do that way more than I did when I was selling it for 50. Yep. And so honestly, a lot of the times the cheap customers are the worst customers. Oh, no doubt. It's not even a lot of times, I would almost be like 99.9% of the time. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah. And it was a headache, trying to refund all those requests, and everything was just like, oh, my gosh, this is a customer support nightmare, because I went after the wrong people. Yep. Greg Marshall  23:05  And so that's really, so really the goal is to think about maybe flip flopping. How you design your business, right? So designed to where the acquisition costs is moderate, to hire. So you can because what that would be communicating as you're targeting a higher quality product or prospect, because the higher costs are going to come from, hey, I want to reach, you know, a woman 35 to 44, who likes to exercise and it makes this much mind. That's very expensive to reach him. Right. And that's good. Because we want that person, right? It's versus a lot of advice. And like I said, I've fallen into this too before, a lot of advice people are getting, how do we keep driving costs down? Well, here's a simple way just broaden your audience. Yeah. And you'll lower your costs. There you go, right, just have no charge. But the problem is, what type of persons actually coming in? Are they the right fit for your business? Or your product? Right? Probably not. Right? So. So just don't fall into that trap? which like I said, I have been guilty of this before. Blake Beus  24:10  Yeah, it's easy. It's easy to follow. And it's easy to look at your ad expenses and think, Geez, especially when you have like two or three days where some oil changes and you're you're not you're not even making money on ads, yes, to make money on. It's easy to freak out and say okay, what's what's, you know, let's, let's lower the cost. It's easy to shrink. Yes. So easy to shrink. Absolutely. And something that you just pointed out to me which could almost be like a philosophy would be almost the higher your costs for acquisition and CPM. The more I guess, stable your business can be Yeah. Because what that basically means now is that the prospect and buyer higher quality but the other thing is when you have it set up that way. Greg Marshall  25:02  Like we talked about earlier, it other people aren't going to be they're not going to feel comfortable paying that. Right for a long time, most people, right. And so you can almost say like, if it's costing a lot, I mean, a safer space. Yeah. Then if it's costing really cheap, because if it's really cheap, the gold rushes are all going to come in and be running, you know, products and things and offers exactly the same as yoga. And then all it's going to happen is now the market of people that you're going after are going to expect unrealistic things. So then becomes a race to the bottom. Yes, well, my product is cheaper. Well, this person said that they give me 10 programs for $7. And you're only doing eight, and it becomes this race to the bottom. It's, in my opinion, I don't believe most business owners get in the business to be to join that race. I think they have the opposite. That's what they do. Blake Beus  26:00  And I think it's like a panic reaction like a reactionary, reactionary thing. And let me pull what you said in a different way. If you want to be able to run ads and sleep at night, without getting stressed about your margins, find a way to be profitable at a much higher cost per acquisition, because then it's like, okay, you're you're profitable, long term, on a $50 cost per acquisition. If it goes up to 55, no big deal. So good, you're still fine, you're still fine. But if you're profitable at a $5 cost per acquisition, a little tiny profit, and if it goes up 10, you're you're losing money, and you're losing your shorts, and it's game over. And so you're waking up in the morning, and I've been here you wake up in the morning, the first thing you do is you check your ads manager, see how it performed overnight, see where you're at. So you need to make adjustments and everything. But if you want to if you want to be the lazy marketer, put all your time and effort into building that long term value. Yep. And then it doesn't, it doesn't matter so much. So you can check your ads every now and then. And and just kind of see if you want to refresh your creative or something, or maybe run a couple of split tests every now and then. But yeah, at that point in time, you're a lazy marketer. Yep. But you're making more money. Greg Marshall  27:15  I actually like how you just said that, because I think that's what everyone's aspirations actually are. You start a business not to just like live and add accounts, and market and spend 99% of your time doing it. Yeah, you start a business because really your aspirations like I want more time. Yeah, more freedom, haha, so that I can do what I want. So it would make more sense to do the exercise of what's the highest my acquisition costs could be and be sustainable, meaning you should do the exercise of if my acquisition costs doubled. Overnight. Could I still make that work? And how, yeah. And then when you get to that one, do it again. Yeah, I keep thinking like, Could I pay? Like, you know, I'm using t shirts, for example, right? Could I pay? Because I know my numbers. So well? Could I actually afford to pay $80? An acquisition? Yeah. And make that work? Yeah. And if you could, how would you do it? Well, I would bump maybe myself, you know, or maybe I would have an email sequence that gets that person that bought get 50% of my new buyers to purchase in seven days. Yeah. But play that game. And if you do it, you'll be able to relax more? Because they'll be like, well, Blake Beus  28:29  it's gonna take a while before your acquisition costs literally double overnight, right? Because that means the CPMs would have doubled, which means competition would literally have to double overnight. Well, if you're like, yeah, if your cost per acquisition is 80 bucks, right? And it doubles to 160. Something is seriously wrong. And yeah, good place, right. Like, that's not gonna happen. But if it's five and doubles to 10, that's just a glitch in the system. Yeah, like that could happen in an hour. Easy. Oh, yeah. And so. So let's take the last few minutes of us. Let's talk about a couple of different ways, realistic ways that people can increase that long term value. We've kind of hinted at them, but I think we should just draw them specifically. So you, let's start with E commerce. You just were talking about T shirts. That's an E commerce business. He talked a couple strategies. Let's dive into that for just just a little bit longer. Greg Marshall  29:18  So how do you increase lifetime? Yeah. So the way you do it, I precice. blue in the face is text message and email marketing. So making sure you're capturing customer information, so that you can go ahead and give them another offer? Right. That's number one. Some that's very close to as far as up there in the scale of importance. Making sure you have consistent email and text message marketing campaigns. Yes. happening immediately. So that your objective is to get them to purchase again. Yeah. All right. And then the third thing that I would recommend is, if you're an E commerce Make sure you're constantly coming up with new products to offer. If you only have five products, and you just stay with those five products, you're not going to last. And the reason is because your ads can only do so much on that front end, right, the more you scale, the higher acquisition costs. So if you're not coming out with new stuff consistently to sell to that person that's related materials, not unrelated, you're not going to be able to be as profitable you can. So make sure you're coming out with new products consistently to sell those people that are buying your front end offers, right? The other thing would be, you can increase your prices, right? You can create bundles, to get people to buy more at once. You can also create flash sales. And if you uniquely put them together, you don't have to discount your product so much. But it increases people's buy ravier, right. So these are things to really think about is making more offers to the customers you already paid for. If I simplify at all, that's how you do. So instead Blake Beus  31:04  of spending time in the ads manager, just making everything, spend time on improving bundles, coming up with email and text message content consistently, constantly building that email list and coming up with new product ideas. That's it. So that's where you should be spending your time now, honestly, most business owners that I've run into, that's where they would prefer to spend their time. Yeah, they get distracted by all her advertising stuff. Because those numbers are addictive. Well, not only are they addictive, but people have different beliefs about money. Yeah. Makes them afraid. And that applies everyone, not just somebody. Right, right. And so when you think about that the ads manager is the one thing where you can where you feel like you have the most control, because you can just turn it off. Yeah, your problems are solved, but at least I'm not losing money. Yeah. Where people tend to get caught up. And this is where I think Greg Marshall  32:05  this is where I think the real opportunity is. When I talk to clients about how easy it would be like every single time I've told a client to do this. It's work. Yeah. The customers you have if you give them another offer, your offer will be immediately profitable. Yeah, guarantee. Yeah. And every time they do it, they see these huge spikes, like, wow, I'm getting all these sets. I have one client in my mind, I'm not gonna say her business brand, so you don't copy her exact strategy. I have one client right now that whatever I tell her to do, she executes it. And she executes it. Well. She is literally she's cut her Aspen in half, just because there was an issue with her add a cow, and some frogs and stuff from someone hacked. But she cut her adspend in half. But, but I told her in order to make the main difference. You're not doing text or email. She started doing that. She's actually on pace ever biggest month this month, while spending half on Rakoff. And I said, Well, what why is that? She's coming out with new products. Oh, she's living far. Exactly. Yeah. And if clients spent more time just like, they usually get caught up, and they don't know what to say. Or what to make. Right? And that's usually why doesn't happen. But if you just take any action, you're likely your likelihood of succeeding with the current customer is super high. Yeah. Because she's not making anything like, you know, game changing. Yeah, they're just like maybe a different color of the shirt. Or instead of a T shirt is lost, or the hoodie is now available or create the same phrase at work into a dress. She's not doing anything like some huge innovation. Yeah, it's just it's incremental. Yeah, it's just give something new. Yes. Something something. Anything. Okay. Makes sense. I love it. Blake Beus  33:58  Okay, let's let's really quick talk about like consulting coaching professional services, what are some ways that people can improve their customer lifetime value there? Yeah. So the fastest and easiest ways to make it a recurring model, and then focus on your customer retention on that recurring model. So that's number one. Number two, could be you could raise your prices. Number three, could be you have supplemental programs to sell to these people that are related to the product that you're serving them with. Number four, could be improving your referral rate, because those referrals come in at a low acquisition cost was increases the lifetime value of the actual customer who refer a lot of people don't think of it that way. Yeah, but one customer is paying you That refers you to another person, that customer now has doubled their worth. Yeah. Or if they sent four or five now there were five times more. Yeah, because they're showing referral behavior, right. So encouraging your current customers to send referrals and then you know, You could, you could do partnerships with other people that have different products to do an affiliate that sales to your current customer base. But that's, that's essentially how you would do it is controlling pricing, putting them on recurring model, making sure they're sending referrals and then having kind of complementary programs to what you're selling. Right. Awesome. Awesome. And then let's see what's up. What's a model we haven't talked about here? I mean, those are kind of the two everything kind of lumped into one, commerce or service. You know, the other thing maybe you could talk about, you know, brick and mortar, like restaurants and things like that, which I see almost, I don't see very many restaurants using advertising. Yeah, my thought is, I've had very limited experience with restaurants. But here's my thought, restaurants are a low margin business. And so the likelihood of how they're viewing the advertising is tougher, because they're not looking at it as a lifetime acquisition, even though the lifetime value of a food customer. Yeah, have actually be super high, as long as your food is good. Yeah. Right. Because they would just keep coming. There's some restaurants I go to, over and over and over again, there's one restaurant that serves a meal that I like, you know, it's a rice of steak meal. I go there at least once a week. So think about what they're making. All right. And if they acquired me through advertising a front, it would make no sense, right? Well, if it costs you $30, to get me to come in and buy that first time last month, but if I stay with you forever, yeah, then technically that $30 is compounded Yeah, as a return. So I would think that they just need to focus on like the fundamentals of long term things, and then treat, add, create treat ads, as if they're kind of like, a billboard or something that you can't really attribute back to, because the only way you can really attribute that back to is if you give some sort of a discount coupon or whatever. So you're already low margin. So it's most like hey, just kind of do some saturation in the local market here. But focus on customer service and retention and getting people to come back, you know, once they show up in the door. I think the moral of our podcasts on the story is build your business don't only worry about acquisition and have everything else falling apart. Yeah, right. You want to make sure that you have strong systems in place a long term strategy give you a key by awesome All right, well, we're this is one of our longer podcasts let's let's wrap this one up. Unknown Speaker  37:29  Greg, how can people get in touch with you Greg Marshall CO and they can book a free strategy session call you can go rocking out Blake Beus  37:36  just like me stock calm. You can see my membership on on the page there and and we can connect through them membership. Great. Well Till next time, we appreciate it. Okay, later  

Thursday Mar 24, 2022

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript Blake Beus  0:06  All right. All right. So Greg, I want to dive in, I just start asking you questions. So you brought up this thing to me, that was super, super interesting. And I feel like this is a really important topic. So I'm glad. I'm glad we're covering it. So it's no secret that Facebook specifically has been under a lot of fire for the last few years over like political advertisements, or politically charged narratives and their ads. And so one of the things they've done is stripped out some targeting options, made a bunch of adjustments to their algorithm. But it seems like there's an unintended consequence. That is, is impacting certain business. Yeah. So tell me what, tell me what you've been finding? Greg Marshall  0:50  Well, certain segments. So I mean, the main one, I have a lot of African American clients that target the African American audience right now. They're selling cultural items and things that are going to resonate more with the African American than maybe a Caucasian. Right, right. And one of the things that I've noticed with a lot of the changes, and I think this has to do with there were so many issues politically, just a few years ago, and you know, people may be profiting off things that they shouldn't be, is Facebook kind of did the knee jerk reaction. So my guess could be they might bring it back. But anyways, what I mean is, Facebook took away a lot of targeting options that would go after or be able to target the African American community, or other, you know, other ethnicities. So you can kind of target your ad. So it's been a progressive checkoff from maybe what, two, three years ago, you could actually target. People like it was a target option, people that are most likely African American, most likely Hispanic, or whatever those options got taken away, then they slowly started to take away some of the interest targeting that you can go after that would imply that the audience may be of a certain race or ethnicity. For example, they took away a lot of the publications that were used for targeting to target the African American community. And they have taken off, I've even seen, I've got other clients that some other even deeper niches that they've taken away those interests that would target that culture. And so what's interesting is, during these changes, the knee jerk reaction seems to be over time, they're taking away more and more targeting towards those types of groups, which I think is a little bit challenging. If you're trying to sell cultural items. And broad targeting may not be the best option. It may be it could be right, but it may not be the best option, because you're not able to start to talk to the people that you're scientists or culture. Blake Beus  3:07  Right. Right. So, so, um, I find this super interesting, because I mean, I'm also seeing publications in, you know, just broad publications. Well, let me let me talk about what we mean by publications, right? A lot of people may or may not realize this, but you used to be able to say, target a magazine, and say, you know, I want to go after people that are interested in this magazine, or target, even like a TV show or something like that. And those targeting options have been kind of removed. But when you started talking with me about that, I knew that those targeting options had been removed. But when you start talking with me about that, I didn't realize how much of an impact that had on, you know, special interest groups, minority groups, ethnic groups, because I, I've never targeted like that. It's, it's one of the things that I bump into, because, you know, I'm white, I don't I don't it that stuff doesn't come across my awareness a whole lot. Because I'm, I'm white, but yeah, do you have a lot of other people in those ethnicities targeting specifically to those ethnicities that are being deeply impacted by this? And they've had to change their marketing strategy more than someone like me? Yes. Who, who? Who has much more general audience? Yep. That, you know, and so you've had to kind of help people through this deal with this, whatever. Like, tell me a little bit more about that. Yeah. So Greg Marshall  4:38  basically, there's you know, there's there's some workarounds around this, yeah. It makes you it requires you to think deeper into how to still reach that person, because it's not like these people have gone off the internet, right? Like they've been removed from the right, it's just getting the ad in front of them has become a little bit more challenging. But There are some ways to do it right. And so if you do a deeper thought, it just requires a lot more research than maybe what you had to do in the past. In the past, you could literally like, within five minutes, you could figure out how to reach this person, not even five minutes, maybe less than that. But now it's, it's more like, you know, you have to switch things up, you have to think deeply on, what else would they do? Where do they live? What else are they watching, you know what I mean? It's almost like you have to become this high level research to reach them. So that is a little bit more challenging. But there are ways around this. And one thing that I've noticed with a lot of my customers that fall into this bracket of selling culturally is a lot of their old assets that they have saved and used in the past, are being automatically turned off by Facebook, to no longer run because it contains some of these interest or targeting options Blake Beus  5:57  that are no longer available, right? So you kind of can get grandfathered in for a time Correct. With you know, if you had an interest based targeting on one of these targeting options that got removed, you can get grandfathered in for a time. But it looks like they're turning those off at some point in time. Exactly. And then they're okay, exactly. So So when someone has a happen, and they're talking about, you know, we need to target a little bit better, we need to find people interested in these products. What can someone specifically do? Yeah, so Greg Marshall  6:27  this is this is kind of where I've almost seen the opportunity. So because I've had a lot of pushback with a guest. And it's funny, because I've actually have run into this, personally running my own ads. So I understand the thinking with this is what, you know, before we started recording, we were talking about, I wanted to challenge us to see is there something to it. So the pushback I will get is, and you know, you say quote unquote, old days a year ago, two years ago, but that is a lot of time for digital marketing. You could, you know, there's a lot of people teaching Facebook courses on, you know, layer your targeting, put your ad in front of the absolute perfect person, and that would work. But now she's now that doesn't work anymore. Because a lot of those targeting options are gone. Right? Blake Beus  7:23  And so what what you mean by layering, just to clarify for any, you know, if you're listening, and you're not sure what he means by layering, that was when you would pick an interest, and then you would say, okay, and they're also interested in this interest as well. And they're also interested in this interest as well. So you're, you're layering those interests and making the audience small, smaller and smaller, but hopefully more relevant than I used to work. Like when I started ads, that was like the thing you had to do. But now, you're talking about going more broad? Greg Marshall  7:54  Yes. And here's the thing, all these changes hurt the advertiser that has a lower budget. Hmm. Okay, so this is what happens. In the past, these courses were very attractive to people who had, I guess, lower AdSense available, because you could literally enter the market, do your layer targeting, get in front of the absolute perfect person and spend five or $10 a day and actually have a positive return on investment? Right, right. And this was a strategy that was taught a lot, especially to the culturally driven community. And now this is not really available or viable strategy. Because number one, a lot of interests taken away. Number two, it the extra lane with all the data that Facebook no longer gets, doesn't work. But here's something that's interesting. So there's a couple of techniques that I've used. For example, I have a client that sells to sororities. Right. And they specifically were selling to African Americans or okay. And they had a specific ad group that they had built to have worked like magic for about two years. Okay. They're like, we'll just use that one. And explaining that is no longer available. Yes, it makes logical sense to do that, and I get it, but it's no longer available. So we have to figure out a way to reach these people. Not using that, that target, right. And one thing that challenged me a little bit was one I used a look alike. Audience customer list connect actually has worked well. Because not every ad accounts look alike audience isn't working as well as they used to. But then the other targeting that we did was pretty broad. So I went after people who are interested in fraternities and sororities targeting women, okay, and that one's working better. better than the old ad set that they used to have. And that's a bigger audience. And it's a much broader and I got a little pushback initially, from doing a saying, well, that's not targeting the specific because they were very specific. Right. That's not targeting them. And the interesting part is the two ad sets that are alter, I guess you'd say Ultra broad, we are giving the album some guidance are actually working better than the old ad set. Okay. Which brings me to, like our conversation we're having before we hit the record button, about maybe broad targeting is kind of the new way. And it requires a level of trust on the AI the algorithm to actually know who you're going after. And I think that's a difficult thing to to embrace brace. Yes. Blake Beus  10:56  Let me ask you this, what I've been thinking this for? Well, I actually haven't told you about this thought. So I'm asking this question tell you where I'm going with this. Okay. So this was an ad targeting sororities, as best you could using the targeting options, specifically African American women that participate in sororities? Right. Yep. What was the ad creative and copy? Okay, Greg Marshall  11:23  so like, you know, I Blake Beus  11:24  don't know, specifics, but you might know about this, because I actually was going to ask, okay, okay. Yeah, let's talk about it, then. That's okay. Greg Marshall  11:31  I believe, after, I don't know, probably spending, like $5,000 Over the last little bit of testing, that the ad creative and copy figures out how to reach the audience you want moreso than the interest? Blake Beus  11:53  Okay, that's so did you have intentionally or unintentionally? Did you have keywords? Yes. In the copy? Yes. That would resonate with African American women interested in sororities, the Greg Marshall  12:05  picture and was the QRP, the creative guy link that they go to the language on the landing page? All of that speaks to that, saying, This is made for blank. Blake Beus  12:18  Yeah. Okay, so we're beating around the bush a little bit. But let's be very direct, I believe. I don't think Facebook has come out and said this. But I believe they're using the keywords in your ads to generate a behind the scenes interest group targeting. And they're using machine learning a lot of people call AI to look at the image or the video to determine who that is targeted towards. Yeah. And they can do that based on cultural or ethnic cues. Yep. In those things. So people don't may not realize, but like, we can read images now. So if there's a picture of two people, yes, on an image, Facebook can determine with, you know, a fuzzy level of accuracy, the ethnicity of those two people, and probably even the gender of those two people. Greg Marshall  13:11  And I think if you combine it, so if you give it enough information, through the images plus the words, you're using your ad copy, plus the landing the landing page to Yeah, I believe that by that combination, the AI can figure out, okay, this, they're trying to reach this person. And they've given me a guiding point, with a relatively broad enough to tell me what they're trying to do. Right. And I think they're pretty accurate. Blake Beus  13:45  Yeah. I will be very curious that. So here's something I would love to see. Tested somehow. So you tell me if this is something so if I remember, right, there was a particular magazine that you were using, yes. Test. Greg Marshall  14:01  Do you remember what the name of that magazine was? For the African American? Yes. Yeah. Essence magazine Blake Beus  14:05  Essence magazine. Okay. I would be curious if you put Essence magazine in your pocket, we like something like, I don't know, if you find yourself hanging out, like home reading Essence magazine, like work it into the ad copy on natural way. I wonder if behind the scenes, Facebook is still doing interest targeting based on those cues. It's just not available for direct selection. Yes. I don't know if that's the case. But I would be very curious. I would guess that they probably are because the reality is, is they dumped years. Yeah. And billions of dollars into developing algorithms to target those interests. Yep. And now that they've removed those from selection, I'll bet they didn't dump that data, but they didn't dump all of that work. I'll bet if you work those keywords into the language in it In a not in a keyword stuffing kind of way, Greg Marshall  15:04  just a natural, staying natural, where you're building where you have where you're almost thinking backwards to how you use Foros targeting, like ultra precise targeting. Yeah. And then put her any ad in front of you even have to be good. Yeah, just any app. Yeah. Now it's reverse where you're thinking, How do I make the the ad creative, the ad copy and the landing page? Yeah, help build what I'm trying to attract. Blake Beus  15:34  Yeah. And let's talk about landing page for a minute. A lot of people don't think about this, that when you put the Facebook pixel on a page, you're basically giving them permission permission to scrape and index all of the information on that page, just like a search engine does. And, and you're giving them the ability to do that. And then Facebook knows that landing page is the next step from this ad, and then want to make sure that everything's aligned. So you can put those keywords and that information in there as well, even video language because Facebook has the ability to, to, to transcribe language and videos, and then use those words as part of their algorithm to determine who specifically would be best to see this ad even on the landing page, like URL content on the landing page, Greg Marshall  16:23  I think and this is where I believe the shift in mindset, including myself, I'm not excluding me. Yes. The mindset shift needs to go into making those ad creatives and landing page experiences as a way designed to attract the right audience. It's almost like fishing. I love fishing. It's like, you can go into, you know, a lake that has a ton of different fish. But what is it that causes you to catch a specific one? If you're looking to catch it? It's actually the bait. Mm hmm. Right? Yeah, you could say is the offer is the Blake Beus  17:05  creator is the landing page, the Greg Marshall  17:07  ad creative, that Blake Beus  17:08  whole like combination right there, Greg Marshall  17:09  it almost doesn't matter. Like if I went, let's say, if I went to, you know, this could be a bad example. But let's say we're using fishing. And I'm like, Well, I want to catch a trout. But I use everything. That trial hate. Even though my targeting is perfect. Yeah, if the you're in Blake Beus  17:30  the right fishing hole, the right time of year, the right time of day. But the lure that you're throwing into the water is something that you know, trout don't like to eat, it's Greg Marshall  17:41  not going to work, it won't work. And so that's almost kind of how you have to think about now that the targeting is kind of gotten you have to use the number one thing that is that works all the time, which is the bait itself, is what matters. Because if you have the bait that they absolutely love, particularly in the season that they're in, at the time of the year that they're in with the right weather and all that the right depth, we have that bait, you don't have to be so perfect, because it's going to attract them anyway. Yeah, you see what I'm saying? Yeah. And so I'm almost viewing the ad creative. As a way to tell these advertising platforms, this is my bait, you should be able to figure out who I'm trying to go after based on, you know, your historical knowledge of when people use this bait. You know, what type of fish catches Yeah. Now, that's Blake Beus  18:33  that that was something we haven't talked about before. I'm glad we're talking about this. Now, because this is shifting. I've always said, especially for the last since iOS 14 change, I've constantly told people, the you need to do your final bit of targeting in your ad copy. But I didn't really consider this level of like depth to that even including the landing page. And the fact that Facebook can index all of that language and use it as part of their algorithmic targeting to get in front of the right people. I always just kind of considered the last bit of target, you go broad, but the last bit of targeting is in the human mind, and they need to self select Yep, based on the ad copy. But it's more than that. I guarantee you the algorithm is using that as part of its Who am I going to show this to Oh, Greg Marshall  19:23  and this is where we came up with this theory. It's actually from talking about Google's in market audiences and custom affinity audiences. Yeah, we're I was explaining to you how I have a fitness club. Yeah, that their ads are absolutely crushing it on, you know, on YouTube, but we're targeting in market people that are interested in multiple results for fitness. And then when I look at the ad placements 99% of the results are coming not from fitness channel. Yeah. Which made me wonder that's interesting, because I would have thought they're watching something about finance, and then they would go to this offer and purchase. But that's not the case at all. It's actually the opposite. Right? And this is where we came up with this conversation. Well, how are they? How is this? Ai? Putting it in front of the right person? Even though Yeah, it's not on a piece of content that has anything to do with fitness. Right? And that's where this conversation started. Because you're like, well, they have to be figuring this out somewhere. Yeah. What do they know? Right? How much do they know where it's still possible to get the results you want? On unrelated channels? Blake Beus  20:41  Yeah. So we dove in, in deep on this last week, Mike, not on and then this weekend for return the Mycoskie, the mic on our podcast would be like three hours. I don't know, maybe people want to listen to a three hour long podcast of us. But and, and but before we go too much further down the Google YouTube rabbit hole, I wanted to focus really quickly. We've talked about ethnic groups, but it also includes Greg Marshall  21:09  LGBTQ letters, I can never say, Blake Beus  21:13  I'm partially dislike, mostly with numbers. And so I do mix those up. But it does include if you have a product or a service that's specific to that, you know, that interest group as well, we're starting to see worse results in in Facebook, specifically with targeting that used to work really, really well. But then, when you hop over into Google, yes, Google seems to have really great targeting options on a bunch of different levels for ethnic groups, minority groups, LGBTQ groups, and interest based things like that. So you've seen a lot of success. Yeah. And we were talking about circling back to what you were saying a lot of the conversions are coming from channels completely not related to the subject or the offer at hand. And how do people get there? Yep. So I don't think people realize it's easy to forget just how big Google is. Yeah, we talked about this a little bit in our podcast last week about just how much more volume Google gets over something like Facebook. You and I, I spend all day in Google looking things up all the time. And YouTube, right? And, and I spend way less time inside of Facebook, researching or looking things up. That happens in Google, but I never do mean either. Never, never, ever, ever. So Google has a much clearer picture, just from its search engine. And from the pages you're landing on, because basically every page on the unit runs Google Analytics. Yep, they have a much better picture about what you're interested in right now. So then, when you hop over into YouTube, which is a Google property, the ad targeting can take that history that maybe you are searching for, for, you know, something specific over in Google and then you hop over into YouTube. Let's just take your fitness example. Right, so so your fitness example, I'm researching fitness gyms locally, in my area, I'm using Google Maps to see what's available. I'm maybe even looking for a gym, that's, that's friendly to one of these, a minority group, I guess, you know, African American people or women or, or an intersection of those groups, or LGBTQ people. There are maybe I'm looking for Jim friendly for one of those. And then I hop over into Google. And I'm also interested in playing guitar or whatever, right? So I'm looking at a guitar video, but now they're taking that search history, the websites I've been viewing into account. And I'm doing something different in YouTube. But but now I'm seeing relevant results in YouTube, even though I'm not on a channel relevant to what the offer is. Yep. Greg Marshall  23:56  Yeah. And that's what and that's what's interesting is because that's what triggered this whole more in depth thinking about the Acrobat. Copy what you're saying what your landing page says, Because another thing I always forget is, these platforms have pixels. On my website. Yeah. So they're able to read everything. Yeah. Right. So they already know what my website's about and what I'm trying to accomplish, right. And so when you take down the county, your ad copy these pixels, also know your landing pages, say it's almost like you should be guiding it that way. And worrying less about the targeting that you're telling them to go after. Mm hmm. Because they're smarter than us. Yeah. Like the the machine is smarter than me. Blake Beus  24:46  Yeah. Well, they have a lot of data points. Right. And I think from a high level, we maybe need to nudge the ad campaign in a direction. Yeah, right. Because Google is notorious for this. Yep. There have been times I've I've launched an ad and all of my budget on the completely wrong. Yep, wrong group. So it's almost like we need to nudge them a little bit and give them some high level indicators on what this particular offer is for. So the algorithm doesn't just completely missed the mark, trying to figure it out. Yep. But from there, maybe keep it high level? Greg Marshall  25:21  Well, just thinking more being okay with a more broad audience, right. So you just give it like an indicator, similar to the sorority example. Right? Where it's like, it's pretty general, right? Fraternities and Sororities that's like, Blake Beus  25:38  and is it a product that's relevant? nationwide? Yes. Okay. So it's not like relevant to a specific geographic location. So you can go really broaden them, Greg Marshall  25:45  you can go broad. And if you think about it, it's almost like I'm trying to challenge myself, as well to think we'll be okay with going broad, almost like, look for broad, right? Because you'll get more volume and the sense of like you, there's more people that may be a market for what you're wanting to do, that you might not be thinking about. Yeah, Blake Beus  26:07  well, even let's take the sorority example, for instance, right? The temptation might be to say, Okay, I only want to target women from you know, 18 to 26, whatever, right. But many parents, help their children get into college, help their children maybe get involved with a sorority, or a fraternity or whatever. So targeting just that age range, might eliminate an entire audience segment that helps get people lined up with the right kinds of things Greg Marshall  26:42  you just made. You just remind them another point, another client that I have that sells product to, you would think only women would buy it. But then when I looked into the Google Analytics, or excuse me, the Google ads and the conversions, it's, there's about a 30 to 40% purchase behavior from men. Blake Beus  27:07  So if you excluded men, you would basically drop your revenue by 3030 to 40%, which is a massive drop, Greg Marshall  27:13  and to be 100%. Like, open, there was no chance that I thought, in any way, shape or form that a man would buy this product. Blake Beus  27:25  Mm hmm. Greg Marshall  27:26  literally zero chance. Blake Beus  27:28  Do you think they're buying it as like a gift for someone or anything? Now when I look at it, Greg Marshall  27:33  it makes total sense why they would buy, but I was not thinking yeah, so it's a hair product for mixed children. Okay. Well, of course, a man would buy if he has, like, for me, yeah, I have a son. He's mixed. If I saw this product, I go, Oh, my wife would probably love this. And I would buy it. Yeah. So it's like so, but going, so you have to be careful going into campaigns on pre determining who you think will actually purchase your product? Oh, I Blake Beus  28:03  think that's a good point, too. Because we all have kind of an entire set of biases. We all do. Right? But I have three daughters. Yep. And I'm constantly brushing hair. And I'm braiding hair, I do it. And my wife is his a 20 year veteran hairstylist like she does a better job than I do with the braids. But I know how to I know how to braid. I know how to blow dry my kids hair and everything teach me it's fun. I love it. That's actually good times. But But I don't normally buy products surrounding that. But I totally could. Sure I I sometimes do buy hair bands and things like that. And at first I didn't know. I didn't know there was a difference between types of hair hair bands for you know, doing hairdos and things like that. But now I do. Greg Marshall  28:56  And so if you saw an ad that let's say you were running into an issue of like, let's say you're you're brushing your your daughter's hair, it's super curly. And you can never figure out how to like get it to go straight over. I've just made I have what Blake Beus  29:10  I would have known that would be a problem, I would need a solution. So yeah, I would see an ad and that would be relevant to me, even though I'm a guy. Greg Marshall  29:17  Yeah. So like, that's basically the point here of like, this entire podcast is essentially also taking a look at broadening who could buy it and giving just indicators on who would be interested in this product. But then letting the machines kind of find that in person. Blake Beus  29:44  Right. Yeah. And then you could probably refine later, right? Yes. And I would want them one of the things I would probably refine would be placements. Yeah, right. Sometimes all the all of the platforms do this, but sometimes they put the ads and a placement Whether it's like a sidebar placement, or whether it's a channel placement, that's just spending money and you're not seeing the elixir results. So you can then just go narrow that down to not include those places. Greg Marshall  30:12  Right. So and that, and that's where I think it's almost like you should start broad. First, you know, budget, will it and then start chopping things down to like refine it. But I think a lot of times, you'll be surprised. Some of the results, you'll get where you'll think I never would have thought initially, that my buyer could be this. But the data is showing me that they're buying. Yeah. And so I should start maybe thinking about either expanding that segment, or being more open to different audiences that you just feel like would never be interested. But they are. Blake Beus  30:55  And even taking the time to test out ad creatives using different keywords, and landing page landing page keywords and things like that, and not going nuts with that, because you could go down this rabbit hole that just consume a ton of time. But, you know, once every few weeks say, Okay, we worked these keywords in there, and they seem to be working well. But let's come up with a related set of keywords. Yep. Everything else the same. Just swap out some of the copy, throw in some of these new keywords and see right. And then you said, you said budget willing, right? I think it's easy to think I may not have the budget to go abroad or whatever. But some of these campaigns you're working on. Some of them are 510 15 $20 a day to start. And then if they're working, it's easy to say, Okay, well, you know, these ads are working, then I can definitely put some more money into it because they're making me money back. Yeah. But you don't necessarily have to have a massive budget to go broad either, right. Greg Marshall  31:56  Yeah. In fact, you almost can make the argument that it could be cheaper, especially for testing, because the more expensive placements are the ones where you try to get to Granya. So when you're like, target a 27 year old female who went to college and makes $100,000 a year, in loans, a house who lives in this city, it's like, you're gonna, you might get like three clicks. Yeah. And span $100. Right. So reach out for Blake Beus  32:25  Yeah, your your CPMs, which is how all of that platforms charged are going to be really expensive. That might not even be the best buyer. Right? For your mind. You just assume you. Yeah, you might. Yeah. So you're making some assumptions? Greg Marshall  32:39  Yeah. And that's one of the things that, you know, you always have to challenge yourself as you're doing marketing and trying to get in front of the right customer. Because at the end of the day, it's you want, whoever, to me, the golden rule is, whoever is beating your door down for your product, is your customer? Versus Who do I just want? Or who I believe who do I believe, right? It's my customer. Right? And that's, this is a good reminder, when you do targeting to think not, who do I just want. And, you know, it reminds you of my initial business that I launched way back in the day, which we want to, you know, high level rich athletes who wanted to train five days a week, and we're all in just getting better. And it's like, unfortunately, although that's best for us, because it's more fun, more profitable, you know, XYZ, the market for that is exceptionally small. And so it's tough to build a business off of that. Yeah. But the people who were absolutely beating our doors down, was the woman who had two kids who was overweight, and had no way to actually, like didn't know how to lose the weight and get in shape. Those people were literally beating our doors now. Right. And so eventually, we caved in and said, You know what, these people just are dumping money out of their cars to say, please take us as a customer. Yeah. Why don't we just focus on that? I lean into that. Yeah. And so it's a good lesson to remember. You can do the same with targeting, which is, I want only people like this. Versus there's a whole segment out there that might just beat your door down. Say, Please, help Blake Beus  34:31  me. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, let's, we're this is one of our longer episodes. Yeah, let's let's wrap it up. But I think this is one of the more important ones we've talked about, because I think we've identified identified an issue that maybe has flown under the radar with the removing of targeting options and how it's probably impacting minority businesses, businesses that that cater to minority audiences. It's impacting them negatively, more so And then other businesses, but I feel like we've identified you through testing and through some other things, some things to try, which, you know, work on the ad copy, try YouTube. If you're not in YouTube right now, try just try YouTube. It's, it's maybe feels a little intimidating, but give it a shot. Because it's it's not as intimidating as it seems. And there's a lot more room for growth. Greg Marshall  35:28  If you're especially if like if you're a service based business, you 100% should be at least trying to, but at the Loris expecting YouTube to provide great results, but Blake Beus  35:43  yeah, and you don't even like just on YouTube really quick before we talk about the next things like, your video does not have to be crazy, flashy, whatever it is, like, I can't tell you how many Liberty Mutual ads I've seen in the market for for insurance. Yeah, but they have these flashy, catchy, clever ads, which you might think you need to do. Yeah, but some of the best performing ads, you've seen, and I've seen very, very simple, literally, someone may be holding a camera with decent lighting, and it's quiet. So the audio is not distracting. And just talking about what the offer is. And, and sometimes that's all you need, you got to realize a company like Liberty Mutual, is trying to get hundreds of 1000s of more customers. But most businesses out there, they just need a few 100 more customers, a few 100 More customers is a big win for many businesses out there. So you don't need flashy ads or whatever. Just make sure you've got okay lighting. And the sound is easy to hear your voice is easy to hear and just be authentic and and speak. Greg Marshall  36:48  Yep. And that's that's literally it. And I think, you know, if your E commerce, definitely look into utilizing Google, I've moved over a couple of clients that are doing Google soli that are seeing tremendous results. Blake Beus  37:05  And these are minority. Yes, they're focusing on a minority target. Right? It's right. Yeah, yeah. Well, some you have others that are but some, some of them are and they're and those that's a good place to be. Greg Marshall  37:15  Yes. It's I think it's ultra underutilized. It's it's a it's an area that can get you great returns. So if you're not doing some Google, you know, the performance Max coming out? Well, it is technically album, it's going to get better and better. We performance Max, I haven't heard about that performance. Max is Google. And what it is, is it takes all the different ad placements. So YouTube, discover display, Gmail, you know, anywhere shopping, anywhere you could be and you create a bunch of different marketing assets. And then Google's AI then pushes it in front of the person that you want, based on the conversion goal row as Gaul Blake Beus  38:03  interesting. And they puzzle piece those assets together, right? So you have individual headlines, like a list of headlines, you'd have a list of images, a list of description tags, or whatever, video different videos and then it will puzzle piece all of those together. And that's interesting. We should talk about that more on our maybe on our next episode. Greg Marshall  38:20  Cool thing that I've tested with that so far. That's pretty give you a lot of good information. They actually tell you what combination of picture headline ad copy is getting you the best result. Which if you think about it, you can use that information for your ads and other platforms. Blake Beus  38:40  Yeah. Oh. All right. Well, that's a little I think that'll be our next talk. Yeah, I Greg Marshall  38:48  would love it. Like five hours was Yeah, absolutely. So Blake Beus  38:51  Greg, how can people get in touch with you Greg Marshall  38:54  go to Greg and you can book a free strategy session and what about you, Blake Beus Blake Beus  38:58  calm and there's the social media moneymakers, SM three group, that's the main way to to get some of my time. And we'll we'll see you guys there. Greg Marshall  39:09  Talk to you next time. All right. Bye.  

Wednesday Mar 16, 2022

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript Greg Marshall  0:03  All right. Well, Blake, I guess I got a lot of questions for you. Yeah, let's let's go deep into I think this this episode is gonna go heavy into E commerce. Yeah. And, you know, I'm just gonna open up to you to essentially start the questions. Blake Beus  0:18  Yeah. So all right. So most people when they think about e commerce is like a business or whatever, almost everybody thinks, well, Amazon's out there. They're, they're doing this thing. And Amazon's his whole ecosystem and everything. But I mean, in my eyes, I feel like we're seeing a shift of companies moving over to their own platforms. Like it's like, it's like, what things were 1012 years ago, companies seem to be moving back towards that, because they're kind of getting sick of having things on Amazon and dealing with everything that's going on there. But I wanted on that, on that high level, what are like, are you seeing the same thing? Is that just me reading into things? Like, what are you thinking? Greg Marshall  0:58  Yeah, so I am seeing the exact same thing. And to explain why I believe people are doing that is people that own these shops, are learning, you know, they don't want their payments frozen or controlled by another third party. But most importantly, I actually just had a conversation yesterday with one of my clients, saying, even with the Facebook, Instagram, check out they're being treated similar to Amazon, which is they're not able to get their name, email phone number, they just check out through Facebook, Instagram. Blake Beus  1:31  Okay, so people are making sales, but they're not able to make repeat customers, because they can't continue to market to them correct. After the purchase? Correct. Greg Marshall  1:39  And I was actually unaware of that part. She she brought this up to me. And I thought, okay, so it's similar to Amazon, what basically, the short answer is, people are kind of smartening up and realizing, well, yeah, it's great. If I can sell on these platforms, the problem is, I don't have any control, and I don't own my customer, therefore, I don't own anything, right. So I don't really have a business because the business is all about you owning your customers. And if the other platform, Amazon, Facebook, Instagram, makes you check out and doesn't give you that information, then they still own your customer, therefore, you don't have a real business. Blake Beus  2:15  So they're basically just consolidating all the customers for themselves and giving you basically giving you some of that revenue for their customer. And essentially what it is that they're basically saying you have you have products and all these things that you're selling, but these are our customers correct. And so we'll we'll let you make purchases and things and we'll give you some money. So it feels like exactly, you have a business, but in all reality, you're just giving us customers, and we're using your products to gain more customers for us. Greg Marshall  2:42  Exactly, exactly. So that's where I think there's there's a big shift, because people are realizing, you know, 3456 years down the road, especially if you're selling like on Amazon, all these other platforms, is when they sell on there, they really end up feeling stuck, like how do I grow my business? Because I don't have a customer list. Right? So I literally have to rely on these third party platforms, Facebook, Amazon, Instagram, to generate my sales, Blake Beus  3:10  right? And if they change anything that could be have a huge impact on the business even just like Amazon changing the algorithm for their search. Correct, right? Like, or if some big player comes in and says, Oh, hey, I like that this company's this small company over here selling widgets, they're selling a bunch of them, so are going to bulk order from China a whole bunch, drop them on Amazon for half the price. And now, you know, a small to medium businesses struggling to keep afloat because someone's basically undercutting them on Amazon. Exactly. I mean, they're listed right at the same day, it's the same listing, like it's not a different listing on Amazon, this Greg Marshall  3:45  is I'm seeing this also with Etsy, Etsy store owners, as well. All these platforms initially sound super attractive in the early stages when you don't have anything. And essentially what it does is you get tied into the platform, and over time, you start to realize that you're trading in your sales at a cost. And that cost is you don't own anything, right? And that's you're essentially renting a business. And so if you're if you have any aspirations of either growing or even selling, you don't have anything to sell, right? There's nothing there because people aren't going to want to purchase a business with no customers, or no actual control. Just the sales channel. Blake Beus  4:31  Right. Right. Right. Right. Okay, so having having said all of that, I think one of the biggest hang ups people might have with launching their own e commerce Store, whether that's on Shopify or something like that, which I mean, from a technical standpoint, point something like Shopify makes it really easy for someone to to launch their own e commerce Store and actually own those customers, even though you're using Shopify. In that ecosystem. You own those customers, the email address, you get everything you get, you can market those. So I think one of the biggest hangups is with with people doing that is they're they're thinking, okay with Amazon, I have all of this built in audience. And so I'm launching my own. I have my own e commerce Store, maybe I've had it for a few years. How do I get an audience? And this is where you come in. This is where people reach out to you. And they're like, Okay, Greg, I need help with this piece of things. Yeah. Greg Marshall  5:20  So essentially, what you're saying is, how do I build an audience? If I'm running Shopify? Yeah. What would you recommend people? Yeah, no high level. So number one is utilize any kind of channels that you already have as far as followers or people that understand who your businesses, that's number one, right, so use those to start building awareness to drive them back to your website. Number two, and this is the fastest way to do it. And if if people execute this, it will work, the fastest way to do it is just to start reaching out to people who have access to your customer, and negotiate a joint venture deal with them. Mm hmm. So for example, if you're selling personal training, products online, find people who are talking to people about nutrition, or maybe if your target demo is women between 25 to 54, find an audience or a business that has access those customers already work a deal and say, hey, I'll give you a percentage and affiliate percentage, or we'll split the revenue, or I'll pay per customer that signs up. And this I'll track it with a promo code, but go that route. Those are the to me, it's just start there. If you just focus on that, you will start to build an audience. Yeah. And then you'll be able to generate customers. Blake Beus  6:41  And and a lot of E commerce platforms nowadays make make that pretty easy. Yep. Right. Like, you probably have seen some influencer in whatever space saying, hey, click, go over this website and use this promo code to make a purchase, and you get a 10% discount, that promo code is what then the company can use to say, okay, all of these purchases came from your social media efforts, and therefore will pay you a percentage of that revenue based on whatever agreement we have. So it's not like it can sound intimidating. But it's not that hard to Greg Marshall  7:14  execute it is, in fact, it's really, it's surprisingly simple. If you just do it, if you just reach out to people, this is where, you know, salesmanship and negotiations. And if you're not good at this and find someone who is to help you do this, yeah. But basically, all they need to do is reach find the people out there that have the audience, and negotiate a deal. I don't want to say guarantee, but a super high likelihood that if you were to make a list of 20 3040 people, and then execute on that list that day, within two to three days, you can have a deal. Blake Beus  7:52  Yeah, I would say it's pretty fair, because most of the people that have larger audiences, they, they've put time into scooping up people for this exact reason for other companies to reach out to them and say, Hey, we want to do some sort of a partnership where you get a revenue share on all the traffic that you send over the the one thing I would say is I would not pay someone to just post no talking about you, it needs to be some sort of a revenue share or something like that. Not only does does that mean that the influence or whatever could actually make more money, but they're more invested in getting people to actually come over and make a purchase. And you actually can see Greg Marshall  8:34  the model and to actually clarify something have you brought that up, the one thing you want to do and in order of value is actually if you reach out to a company, an influencer or a business, you actually want them to if they have an email list, that's the most valuable. So that's the first offer you want, Oh, good point going second would be on their social media feed. Third would be on their story reels. That's the value ladder. So typically, when you reach out to an influencer, they'll try to sell you on the story, not the feed, or their email list. So the influencer, the business that you talk to will try to sell you in reverse. What you want to do is negotiate in the order I just told you email feed store story and you pay accordingly. So if there is a price that they want you to pay, the highest price one is should be the email and the lowest price one should be the story. Right and it should be in that order. And if they try to do it the other way. That's that's not good. Yeah. So that you don't want that because the exposure and click through rates are not as high on stories as they are an email. Email marketing list. Email still number one best highest converting sales channel. Hands down, no doubt about I don't even have anything else to say, when it Blake Beus  10:03  comes. I would hazard a guess if an influencer hasn't if you ask them about that. And they say, well, we don't really have an email list, that influencer probably hasn't put the time and effort into getting the type of people that actually purchase, follow through. So that may not be that may be a sign of a partnership. That's not that great. Yeah, Greg Marshall  10:21  it could be that. Or you could also try to essentially teach them or groom them on how you would like them to post. They might just not be as business minded. Right? Right. So there, they understand how to build a big audience. And they understand algorithms and things like that. But they don't understand the business side. And this is an opportunity for you. This is why you want to have written down strategies on how you're going to pitch. Because you could say are the campaign I want it to look like this. It needs to be on the feed it nice to have these types of words, the ad picture or creative needs to look like this. In order for us to get the biggest one. Blake Beus  11:01  Yeah. Okay. Okay, so we've we've done the low hanging fruit now let's talk about ads. Because yeah, before we turn the microphone on you were talking to me about some unique ad strategies for E commerce. Sure. It's no joke. It's no secret that E commerce and ads have gotten together. I mean, I see I see E commerce ads on Facebook all the time. And yeah, Instagram. Google Shopping. Yep. Uh, you've been using YouTube? Yes. E commerce, which I feel like not a lot of E commerce businesses do. Yeah. So Greg Marshall  11:31  with YouTube, what I'm finding is you can target so there's some audiences that I've been testing with that have been working well. And they're pretty targeted. So the custom intent audiences, which is different than keywords, or in market audiences, custom intent is basically you put in a bunch of keywords of people that would have searched out these terms on Google, like, for example, like, pizza place near me, you would put that in a custom intent audience, instead of a keyword audience, okay? Because what you're you're actually piggybacking off the previous search history on Google, which makes it more relevant. Then if you put it in the key words, that means the meta tags and YouTube video is tagged that way instead of what they've searched. Oh, okay. Okay. So that's the difference. Now, those audiences are like really targeted, I've been looking at the the ad placements worth, because usually, that'll give you an idea of like, how targeted the ads are, okay, is if you look at where the ads are being placed, if you see like in a bunch of kids channels, you know, then you know, it's not very targeted, right? Kids are seeing your ads not right actual people in market. Blake Beus  12:44  And this is this is a not really a unique thing. But a lot of people that have run ads on Facebook, this is kind of a new concept. Yeah. Inside of the Google ads platform, you can actually see which channels your ad showed up on right. You can see which websites Yes, your ads showed up on if you're using like the Display Network to show things outside of Google, which apps which apps like us, because because Google owns, you know, the Android ecosystem. So if your ad is showing up in apps, and on a quick side note, I had one, one client that was helping with the did e commerce software as a service for E commerce companies and and our app ads were showing up in all these kids games. Yes. And they it was just, it was wasting our budget. And we could so we had to adjust our targeting to make sure that didn't happen. But you couldn't you can't really do that in Facebook. So that's a new concept for people coming from Facebook over into Google. And it's a helpful bit of information. Yes, really helpful. Greg Marshall  13:44  Well, and the cool thing is it also itemizes where the conversions happen where the clicks happen, so that you can expand on the strategy. One thing you can't do, like on social media platforms is you can't really tell like, where or when the person saw the ad, like what their kind of mindset was, right? Right, because they're scrolling. But if you use Google, it'll show you channels on intent, like they clicked on this ad, while they're watching another ad. That's similar to what topic you're talking about, which means the intent is higher, right? And you can kind of use that to build out strategy, right, which is great. So this is something that is, in my opinion, stronger than just social media ads, because you can you get more insight on what people are doing, and what is working and what's not. And then you can double down on strategies that work. Blake Beus  14:37  Right. And I feel like Google is probably of all the ad platforms out there. Google is by far the best determining intent. Yeah, mostly because of the Google search engine, right. And so you have the Google search engine and that information and that intent can pull over into YouTube because they're owned by the same company that are they're very hot. integrated. And so that's one of the reasons why it feels like you're saying the in the custom intent. That right? Is why that's working inside of YouTube. Because you can say, Okay, I want people with this intent, and Google take all of that data from their search engine, and then show that ad to the read those people in YouTube. Exactly. And so that's one audience, another audience and I, I always get this backwards. So though, you know, Greg Marshall  15:27  don't quote me exactly on the name of the audience, but it's where you create the same type of a custom intent audience, which is similar audiences to URLs. Okay, so that's another good one. Blake Beus  15:40  Interesting. I've never actually heard of that one. Yeah, and I've run a lot of YouTube ads. Yeah. Greg Marshall  15:44  So basically, what you do is, when you're creating the audience, you plug in a single URL of the type of customer you want to go after. So for example, you're selling dog food, you'd find a dog food website, find that website, especially if it's high trafficking, and then you'd plug that in. And then Google finds visitors that you know, quote, unquote, match. This might be the same visitors but quote unquote, matches those website audiences. And then you target those people. What first thing that basically saying is, people who are shopping on those websites, you'll also get in front of Blake Beus  16:21  interesting interesting and so the, I would have to say the the, you know, you might be a listener out there that's thinking but wait, wait, wait, didn't the iOS thing make retargeting or whatever, based on website views, less effective and, and yes, but you got to remember they Lupul Google's search engine is the biggest search engine ever. So maybe Google can't track quite so well, once people are on that website. But they know who's searching for that website. And who's going to that website, regardless of what Apple is doing, because you're using the Google search engine? Greg Marshall  16:53  Plus, Google is so much bigger. Yeah, Dan, all these other social people don't realize that they're way, way, way bigger. Yeah. So even if you took away 20% of the data, Google could have got that 80% is still significantly larger than any social media site has on anyone. Right? You don't I mean, and so that being said, it's tough to and unless Google decides to shut itself down, then it's gonna be pretty tough to eliminate. Right? All that data. So therefore, Google, longterm wise, I feel like has the best chance of you running into those issues of the iOS and apple on third party because they actually own the other. The other main competitor? Yeah, right. Yeah, Android? Blake Beus  17:41  Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we're talking about using YouTube and people are thinking, Okay, we've talked about targeting, what does like an E commerce YouTube ad look like? Right? Because there's different ways. Yeah, put an ad inside of YouTube. And not all of them are video? Greg Marshall  17:55  Sure, sure. So on if you use if you do use video, the ones that work the best are the ones that are similar to the TIC TOCs, with a really, really quick explanation kind of highly engaging, quit fast, choppy to keep the attention of the buyer. Blake Beus  18:12  So you've got like a cut happening every second second or half something like Thank you. Greg Marshall  18:16  That's the word. I was like, Yeah, cut, right. So you've got cuts kind of happening. You're showcasing your products? And then obviously, you're telling them where to go. Blake Beus  18:24  Okay. Okay. And then we've got the, you were talking before this, you were talking about the discovery ads? Yes. So tell everybody what a discovery ad is. And so using Greg Marshall  18:36  those, if you use like YouTube discovery ads, what that basically is, is it's it comes up in the suggested on the right hand side, or under video that someone's watching. And essentially, what what's good about that is you can build audiences with those types of videos. And then retarget, the people that watch that video as an ad, so then, you know, they're actually really targeted, because you put the initial targeting end, right. Okay. And so that's a, it's a really, like, effective way to, you know, do an air quotes, like, organically, it's more of an organic click right? So they have to actually click it to watch it versus an in stream AD, the ones that show it right before you're watching it, it's more interruption, right. And so the quality, not the quality, but the intent of that user is not as high as someone who saw your video, and then chose to click Yeah, to watch it. Right, right. So there's a difference. And so that's a good way to build high quality audiences is by using the discovery app. Blake Beus  19:42  Okay, so a discovery ad. It shows up on the sidebar or under a video and I choose to click on it and that takes me to a video correct. And that's a video ad of mine. So someone chose to click on that sidebar link and now they're and now they're sitting there watching my ad correct. And then you were telling me the watch times Greg Marshall  20:00  Yes, so wash times are okay, on Facebook and most, you know, social media platforms, the watch times are only like three seconds. Right? And so, because of that, even if you run video campaigns, it's tough because on those platforms, you're you're paying for people just to watch some three seconds, which we both know to watch something three seconds, there's no intent, right? It's literally, you know, I saw it skipped it wherever. Right? On discovery as both well in stream and discovery. On YouTube, just in general, the average watch times are significantly longer. So we're talking 3040 50 seconds, a minute, two minutes, sometimes even more. Yeah, right. Think of how much more of an intent and how much more someone is kind of being, you know, indoctrinated into your brand. By watching that much. Right, right. 30 seconds is a pretty long time for someone that didn't expect to watch you. Yeah, right. Right. And a minute even more. So the watch times are much better. And if if you're using In Stream Ads for conversions, which is when you tend to use those, the industry matters, you don't pay unless they watch 30 seconds of your video. Which is way better, right? Paying for if someone watches 30 seconds, I don't Blake Beus  21:23  think people realize how powerful how big of a difference that is. That is an absolute giant. If on Facebook, you're paying if someone just sees the video, like not even if it's like three seconds sometimes, right? Exactly. Like if if someone scrolls past your video you got paid for you had to pay for that set of eyeballs looking at it. Yep. In YouTube, you know, you don't pay unless someone watches your in stream ad for 30 seconds or more. Yep. That's a huge dummies Greg Marshall  21:52  that here's here's the difference. Example one, three seconds. Hey, what's going on? My name is Greg Marshall, Skip, done three seconds. Right. Here's the other one. Example number two. Hey, guys, guys, me Greg Marshall. I'm going to talk to you about Social Media Marketing ads and how they can impact your business. And why you should really be thinking about using Facebook, that and that wasn't even 30 seconds. Blake Beus  22:15  That was 12 seconds. I kept an eye on that you there's so much more information in there and so much more opportune and grab someone's attention if you Greg Marshall  22:22  hit skip at 27. I didn't pay for them. Yeah. As the advertiser I don't pay for but you still saw and heard all you still Blake Beus  22:30  Yep. Yeah, someone still saw and heard and everything. But you weren't. You weren't charged that. So? I mean, look, I feel like moving forward, with all the things that are happening in the ecosystem and everything. I think we're gonna see a ton of advertisers, the good advertisers, shift from, you know, 80 to 90% of their marketing used to be on Facebook. Yep, I think you're gonna see that shift, and maybe see 80 to 90% of their marketing is on Google, Google Google system, and maybe even YouTube, just specifically. And then maybe just to maintain a presence. Maybe 10% of their marketing is on Facebook, or Instagram or something like that. Greg Marshall  23:08  Well, and I agree. And the other thing with E commerce too, that you should implement Google Shopping, you should definitely implement Google Shopping, because you can get just as good a results that you were getting on Facebook years ago, or better. And those are the ads that show up in Gmail on the side of YouTube, under certain videos, specific websites. Same thing, you can go after custom audiences and market audiences, things like that keywords. You should also implement, the more traffic you get, you should be utilizing brand search. Oh, interesting. Brand search does extremely well. I have one client that we got, um, I want to say 300 conversions in the last maybe seven or eight weeks, just on the branded search, really. So explain what branded searches branded searches, like let's say you run an ad, let's say your your pizza hut, right. And you're running YouTube ads, and you've got blog posts, and you got Facebook posts and all that. Well, what happens is we all we all do this, which is if we see a brand we don't necessarily know. But we're seeing them everywhere. We tend to go to Google and type in who that is. Right? So we would type in pizza. Now, if you don't have the branded search ads will show up at the very top of the Google search, like ecosystem. And your ad will pop up for pizza be triggered and it's a guaranteed way to be number one. Now this is why it's important. Number one, you want to capture those. Some people say why would you do that they want to convert anyway. No, that's not true. Because if if you got other campaigns running, and you're really building brand awareness, people that don't really know you but want to know more about you're going to type your name. Yeah, right. If you do that, if you're not like basically buying that key term, your brand name, then you're going to lose out on that traffic because maybe your website is not ranked number one on Google or could be another website, right? And the other thing is, competitors can bid against that name, and knock you off your own brand name. Right, right. And so what you want to do is you want to go to Google search ads, and basically pay for anytime someone specifically looks up your brand name brand, so that if you have all these ads running, you're able to capture everyone that is looking up your brand name, because you should own that because it's your brand name. Blake Beus  25:42  Right? Yeah. So to deviate from where you were going with all of that? I know a lot of people out, you know, you might be thinking, Well, I've heard search ads are really expensive now. And that can be true, sometimes based on industry, lots of things. But branded ads are generally relatively cheap. They're Greg Marshall  26:02  so they're insanely cheap, just customer, his average order value, as is about $80. His cost per conversion on his brand search terms is around five. Blake Beus  26:12  So yeah, see, that's, that's insanely cheap. Because I'm sure you know, people think well, sometimes I have to pay 1012 $13 per click on search ads, but branded ads, it's, you're charged based on relevance. And if this is your brand name, it's hyper relevant. And anybody else out there any competitor that's bidding on your brand name has to pay sometimes five times the cost to get above you. Yep. And so you can hop in there and do a branded search with a low dollar amount, and still be number one, whereas all of your competitors would have to bid, you know, like I said, five times 10 times more. But if you're not in there doing that with search, then your competitors can get up on top relatively cheap, because there's no competition because you aren't doing that. And that's why it's so important Greg Marshall  26:59  to do that. So essentially, what you want to do is you want to make sure you have branded search campaigns to capture all the traffic that is even coming from other traffic sources. Another thing I like to use, I don't know how many people use this, but I know I like it as a marketer to think I prefer changing the attribution to first click, versus last click okay. And the reason for that meeting, the credit goes to the ad that they first saw, okay, the reason why I think first click means more than last click is because that would give me a better indicator of first time exposure. Right? Because if if they saw if this is the ad they saw first, and then they bought, to me that's more valuable than an ad that they saw last. Because last click feels like it's eliminating credit from every other marketing activity, which is not true. There's no such thing as like, there's one ad only that convinced someone completely, especially if you have multiple channels, right? So instead, I like to do first clinics a lot of sense to make sure if they saw this ad first and then they convert it. To me that's what that weighs more than an ad that like you know, let's say do retargeting ad and, and you do last click, all that's going to do is just take the traffic that probably would have converted anyways, and give the credit to that right versus first click. It's like, this is the first ad they saw before they did all the other activities are bought. That makes a lot of sense. That's that's what I really never Blake Beus  28:40  I actually never did that. And the default is last click last right? So you've got to make sure you go in there. Greg Marshall  28:44  And yeah, you have to change that you have to change it. But that's as a marketer, and even as a salesperson, that's I look at it because I'm like, if I see an ad for the first time, and I know Oh, wow, that's, that's incredible. I gotta click that. But then I don't purchase for a few days. But I I've seen all this other stuff that first as should get the credit. Because if if it if I did not click that, then I most likely Blake Beus  29:09  wouldn't have triggered all of the other I would have triggered everything right. So therefore Greg Marshall  29:13  the first click matters more than the last click in my opinion. Yeah, there's probably other people that would argue that Well, they'd be wrong. And I'm not saying they're, they're wrong. Yeah. But I'm just saying in my mind, the way I think about it is the most important interaction when it comes to Martin, because that's what everyone wants to know. Is that first one, what got them in? Okay, what got him into the ecosystem? So, Blake Beus  29:38  yeah. So if I were to take a big step back, while we're wrapping this up and look at a high low level view of what you're talking about here, it seems to me that Google and the whole Google advertising ecosystem for E commerce, once you hop in, there's a lot more breathing room to grow. There's a lot more ways you can take your ecommerce strategy to the next level. So say you maybe only have the bandwidth right now to do some simple YouTube ads, whatever, but that but once you get that going and get those processes in place, you can open that up to branded search, which is super easy, right? Like you can tack that on. And you can open that up into Google Shopping, you got open that up into Google search, and even the display ads and everything like that. So there's like, a lot more breathing room because I I would guess that a lot of E commerce businesses right now that are still trying to advertise heavily inside of Facebook, are feeling suffocated. They're feeling the pressure, they're feeling a lot of pressure I ceiling, they're feeling a little called claustrophobic want on what they can do. Whereas hopping over to Google, you've got a lot of areas to expand. Greg Marshall  30:49  Well, let me to simplify what you're even saying. Remember, on social media, everyone is competing for the same exact placement, the feed? Yeah, or the story, right? On Google, that's not the case. If you're doing branded search terms, you're only competing with a certain amount of people, right? For your brand name. If you're using YouTube, you're only competing with certain amount of people for that particular website, or that particular keyword search. Right? Not the whole world. Right? That's the part you have to remember is in social media, you're competing with real estate agent for the same space, as someone's on dog food. Blake Beus  31:27  Yeah, because I only have one newsfeed, right likes to Facebook, I only have one news feed, and I see a couple of cat videos from my friends. Yep. And then the first ad there is, whoever is trying to target. Yep. Whereas inside of Google, I don't necessarily have a YouTube feed correct, per se, correct. I go to YouTube to look at some things and based on what I'm doing there is then what I'm going to see. So Greg Marshall  31:54  unless people are bidding against the exact same intent as you right, then you're really competing only against a much smaller audience versus on a newsfeed, you're competing against every advertiser in the world. Because if you think about like Blake, Blake doesn't just have one interest. Right? Right. He has multiple hitches, therefore, anyone that's trying to target Blake, listen to Blake likes, music, he likes fishing, he likes, you know, marketing, he likes creative editing, right? All these advertisers that are trying to sell to that particular pocket, are still trying to reach Blake. Yeah. You see what I mean? So it's like, so you're competing with a lot more people than you actually think on a newsfeed because there's only one placement versus on Google, you have multiple placements that you can go after Blake. And it doesn't have to just you're not competing with everyone in the world going after that exact Blake Beus  32:52  intent. Right. And in general intent. And this is where Google is great is the intent is oftentimes relatively singular. Yeah, if I hop into Google, I have one purpose. I'm not hopping into Google and typing in the search bar. I need to find some new dog shampoo. And I need a real estate agent. Yep. And I need to find someone to clean my carpets. And my car's been making some weird noises. So I need to find a mechanic. I'm not doing that I'm searching for one of those things at a time. And then that intent can pop up whatever those ads are. So I'm not competing against all of those other things. Greg Marshall  33:25  Exactly. And so that's, that's really what why I think, big opportunity comes kind of like in that Google ecosystem that a lot of people don't use. I know in the E commerce space because of intimidation. The ads feel harder, like scarier because they there's so many within the app platforms, there's so many things to like, click on gotchas to like, you know, yes. Oh, Blake Beus  33:51  we've we've experienced, we've bumped into some gotchas. And maybe maybe we can have a podcast because this is getting kind of long, where we talk about some of those gotchas on Google. They're not hard, but you just need to be aware of them. Because there are ways that you can accidentally waste waste your budget Greg Marshall  34:05  and fortunately, I've done that Blake Beus  34:09  too. So anyway, let's let's wrap this up, Greg. How can people reach out Yeah, so Greg Marshall  34:15  you go to Greg and book a call you can do a free strategy session and what about you, Blake Beus  34:20  you just go to Blake Beus calm and the big thing I'm kind of pushing right now is my SM three group it's targeted towards people between you know if you have 100 or 100,000 followers on how to essentially use us marketing strategies how to post consistently how to make that work for you, instead of making your social media strategies take over here. Oh, I Greg Marshall  34:40  exactly. So alright, well outside of that. Hopefully you guys enjoyed the episode. I will talk to you guys next time. Bye.  

Wednesday Mar 02, 2022

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript Greg Marshall  0:02  Okay, we're good. All right. Blake Beus  0:06  So it's funny you You and I both had an idea to talk about something today. We hadn't talked with discuss before. And it was the exact same topic Greg Marshall  0:16  as the same top 100%, the same topic. And I was curious, because I was going to actually ask you if you heard about this, right, yeah. So why don't you reveal what this topic was? Blake Beus  0:28  Google announced, what they call privacy sandboxes. And and Greg Marshall  0:34  what's the translation for that translation log interactive? Blake Beus  0:40  Well, they're kind of light on detail. But let me let me just talk about sandboxes really quick, because this is not a new concept. This is a concept that's used quite a bit from, like a security standpoint. So quick, super simple example is there's there are people out there security experts that research computer viruses, but they don't want to infect the computer with the viruses, but they need to run that virus on a computer to see what it's doing and see how to write their software to remove it or detect it or whatever like that. And so they put it in what's called a sandbox, which is basically a walled off area of the computer, that when something is inside, that it can't escape and get out. So that's like what a sandbox is. So Google, Google's privacy sandboxes would be would be something along those lines where things would run in isolation. And it sounds like I mean, they're kind of light on details, but it sounds like, they're going to either give people the option or enable the option by default to make sure that your apps are running in isolation. And so what you're doing in the app is stays within the app. And then the tracking doesn't bleed over out outside of the app or data aggregation or gathering data doesn't, doesn't, you know, can't get into the the app from outside the sandbox or whatever. So yeah, that's, that's the topic well, and Greg Marshall  2:03  essentially, what that means, you know, the what caught my attention, because, you know, always good headlines always fear tactics work. And I saw the picture of the head of Mark Zuckerberg face. And I said, you know, something along the lines of like, you know, Facebook's in serious trouble, because now Android is doing what Apple did, which is taking away. What is the third party tracking? Is that what it's technically called? What is it called? Blake Beus  2:31  Yeah, it would it would be called third party tracking, basically, Facebook's ability to track information outside of the Facebook app. Yep. And and apply that information to advertising strategies inside the Facebook app. Greg Marshall  2:44  And what do you think? So what are your thoughts? I have a couple of thoughts, but I'd like to hear yours. What are your thoughts on how this will impact digital advertising? Particularly? Facebook? I feel like it impacts everyone. Yeah, like every platform no matter what. Yeah. It seems like Facebook, for whatever reason, is like the target. Blake Beus  3:03  Yes. Well, I mean, a report came out last week or the week before that talked about how iOS his privacy changes, impacted Facebook's bottom line by about 20 billion in the last 18 months. Wow. So clearly, I mean, that's a number big enough that everybody, every executive, Facebook is worried about it. Yes. So this could also have another massive impact. Because what is something like 95% of people that use Facebook, or the time spent on Facebook happens inside of a mobile app? Yeah. And the two platforms are iOS and Android. Yeah. Right. And so this clearly is going to be causing them concerns. What it means from a practical standpoint from advertisers and things like that is that most likely Facebook is only going to be able to use reliably use data gathered within the platform for for targeting data interest based targeting data and things along those lines. So historically, if I browse something on my computer, Facebook could track that back and then deliver me ads on my mobile device. So things like that are going to be less reliable. Yep. I think moving forward. But we'll start see some some additional things happen. So one thing that a lot of people don't really notice. You see him inside of Facebook, and I click on a link inside the Facebook app on my Android phone. It opens it up in a browser. And you probably notice that's not your web browser. Yeah, that's a Facebook web browser. So you're still inside the Facebook app. And so they're still gathering that data, being able to attribute things but if I close Facebook on my phone and open up Google Chrome or Firefox on my on my phone or Safari, if you're on iOS Do some browsing there. Facebook's not going to have any any knowledge about what he did what I'm doing, what if I'm looking at, you know, dog beds? Yeah. On him. Greg Marshall  5:11  Now, let me ask you this. How much of an impact does that really make? So meaning is it mostly due to what I've been hearing a lot of just like within like forums or Facebook groups or whatever, Twitter, Twitter's a place that I actually see a lot of information from advertisers, because I follow them. And what I'm hearing is they're they're basically saying that you can no longer really rely purely on the algorithm. And so you actually have to like be a marketer. Right? And, in my mind, that's kind of good luck. Do you believe that's true? Is it most because like, I always felt like I saw courses all the time about hacks. Yeah. Right. And I don't see those anymore. Yeah, my guess is those are going to be completely gone. Yeah. So what are your thoughts about that? Blake Beus  6:04  Yeah, absolutely. I was gonna mention hacks. And like back in the day, you probably you probably remember this more than 90, but four or five years ago, a winning Facebook ads strategy was to have have have your ad with a couple of catchy phrases a catchy image, and then you just duplicate that ad set, like a bajillion times targeting different very tiny, tiny audiences? Because because that would that would essentially trick the algorithm into delivering your ads, more that those types of things are just not going to work? They probably I mean, they don't really work now. Yeah. And they're probably going to work less. So what people are going to have to start focusing on is product market fit. Yep. And the language and things will stuff read the language needed to to get people inside that target demographic, to take action to take that next step to click on the link. And, and it's going to go back to traditional marketing strategies. I personally think we're gonna see a lot of these small Facebook ads, ad agencies kind of go away. Yeah, right. And when I say small agencies, I'm talking like a single person agency that watched $1,000 course and his business has been target has been running Facebook ads for people, I just don't think many of those people have enough passion or drive to really dive into the core principles of marketing. And and to put in all of that extra effort. They were relying on the tricks, right, you set up your campaign like this, use this objective. You you you do this, and this and this, and it all happens inside the Facebook ad platform, and you win. Yep. I don't think that's going to work and video Greg Marshall  7:46  game has passed. Yes. Yeah. Well, and what am I here? My thoughts? So if there's less tracking? I mean, theoretically, it shouldn't necessarily matter, as long as you have good messaging and good ad creatives. And a good product. Good. You know, just like the fundamentals. Right? Yeah. What do you what do you think about? How well do you think do you think it shifts? As far as how Facebook and these other ad platforms show an ad? I've been hearing a lot about what your ad copy and ad creative becomes your targeting? Is Yes, what I've been hearing a lot of explain to me, my understanding of that is essentially like, if I write an ad, let's say I'm targeting people who own dogs, yeah, it would still be somewhat broad targeting. But then you're saying, Hey, if you own a dog, I got this dog food is the greatest thing ever. Blah, blah, blah. And that somehow, the algorithm or Facebook or Google, whatever, figures out who to put that in front of is that? Is there any accuracy to that? Blake Beus  8:55  I would, I would hazard a guess. And it's honestly, it's all kind of guesswork at this point. But in my mind, I would say yes, in and that's not a new concept either, right? Like, interest based targeting has not always had as the number of interests that are available in there, right? That's always kind of fluctuated, so. So you probably remember, and I know I've done this before, especially, this is especially useful for small geographic areas. You can only target so small geographically, but if you want, like if I'm running some ads for dentist's office, yeah. Or something like that, you would target as close as you could. And then and then you would say something like, you know, hey, Hill City resident Yep, target to call them out, because then you're the last bit of targeting is happening in your ad copy. You're basically telling people to self select, oh, they're speaking to me. Right. And that's, that's a totally entirely not creative way to do the targeting the ads, but, you know, with dog owners, you could really speak speak to the dog owners. Talk about the very First line could be something catchy that resonates wholeheartedly with someone who has owned a dog. I'm not a dog. Yeah, so I don't know what that would be I own cats. Yeah. So probably the very first thing for me would be like, you know how that cat keeps scratching your favorite piece of furniture? Yep. Right? I'd be like, yes, yes, I do know, that frustrates me that that gives me an emotional response. And it makes me want to read further. Greg Marshall  10:24  Well, here's a question for you then. So as far as the delivery, and maybe I'm looking at this different, or incorrectly? So as far as delivery of the ad, though, how would you would you still rely heavier on interest targeting to guide it? Or would you just say broad, and then somehow the platform would have to figure out how to put that in front of someone? Because hypothetically, if I launch an ad, and you launch an ad, and there's no targeting, how does the platform decipher what pocket of people to show that? Blake Beus  10:58  Yeah. So in my eyes, this is where you, you got to just test, I think this is going to be different based on on the the product, the industry, the market, whatever, because some some industries or interest interests are going to be easier for and, you know, a Facebook ad platform to identify than others, right? Like, if it's something along the lines of does this person like dogs? Yeah, Facebook could determine that based on how many dog Facebook groups they're in. Yeah. Right. That's the pictures they post. Yep. They're scanning the pictures to see if those are pictures of dogs. And yep, like, they have access to all of that information. But if if it's something along the lines of, you know, is this person interested in? I can't think of something right now. But something there's not like a clear face like roof or like, like fixing my roof. Yeah, if I'm, if I want, yeah, that's a good example, something that I need right now. Like, I there was a hailstorm and I need my roof fixed. Face. I'm not following roofing groups on I have a followed roofing group for years and years. And Facebook, this is something that I kind of need right now. And so Facebook is probably not going to know anything about that. Right? And so it's going to be one of those things you'll have to target. But when you say if I target something broad, how does Facebook know who put in who to who to put it in front of this is where historical ad account data kind of comes into play in my eyes? Yeah. So what they do at first is say I have $100 daily budget, and my target audience is 50 million people. That's super broad, right? Obviously, they can't show it to all 50 million people to get a good sampling of data. Yep, on my $100 a day budget. So they're going to pick a pocket of people to show it to. And then And then based on how those that pocket of people react, whether they're clicking through whatever, and who clicks through and what attributes they have, they can then expand that to larger pockets of people. That that pocket of people is probably picked based on historically who has clicked on things in your ad account. And they're going to try to show it to the best people first, to get kind of a good idea on that. But again, Facebook doesn't publish this stuff. But yeah, if I were to write algorithms, and if I were to write a platform to try to figure this stuff out, it's not just me, other people that are in data science and everything. This is how it would probably most likely work. Yep. Greg Marshall  13:29  So here's my thought to that, then, if you had something like roofing, right, that you would have to then you made, my thought is you may have to rely more on research, and then plug in the kind of the demos that would match that. So one thing that I know from selling, you know, even like some T shirts and specific areas, yeah, remember that company that would sell shirts that were based off of where you're from. So that that's a good example to like, in the past. If you were to try to just target like, let's say, Baltimore, or Atlanta, or New Jersey, whatever. It seemed like that audience was always like, too small for Facebook to like, really scale to anything, right. Only spent so much money. Yeah. But I wonder now, if you were to do targeting based off cities like that, if it would start to work, because at least it gives you a better direction. You know what I mean? Like, there's not as much interest targeting, for example, like, if you're doing roofing, you would go like, well, what places have the most storms? Yeah, right. And you and you would plug in all these cities? Yeah. And then target the cities. And then you would say, well, homeowners usually are like 30 Plus, right, right. And you'd have to use more like logic like that. Is that what you think would happen or is that oh, yeah, the wrong direction? Blake Beus  14:57  Definitely. I think I think the market is Make it are going to be the marketers that are good at high quality research of identifying those things and figuring those things out. And then taking the extra step of doing that extra targeting inside the ad copy, which you and I both know, those are two totally different skill sets. And not a ton of marketers have both Greg Marshall  15:17  both either really strong and one. Right. The other but both, Blake Beus  15:21  not both. And it's hard to be an expert at both. Because there there is, I don't know, using different parts of your brain I Greg Marshall  15:28  like it's just, it's just different. It's different patterns. Like it's like doing math and painting. Yes, that's the way you think about that is not the same. No, not to come up with some No, not the Blake Beus  15:41  same. And so if you're doing it as like, you know, a career or whatever, you're spending some dedicated time focusing on the one piece, while at the same time, you're getting worse at the other piece, because you're ignoring exactly you're ignoring working that muscle. So I mean, now that we're talking about I think a good combo for an agency would be to kind of basically pair up the analytical research person with a an emotion based copywriter. That's flexible. Yep, that would be in my eyes, a pretty killer combination. Greg Marshall  16:12  That's essentially what you need. Right? And, you know, I feel like with the question, I have them moving forward, as, as I guess, targeting becomes weaker? Right? A lot of the optimizations were done, because there's so much data being fed back into it. Mm hmm. How do you think that's going to impact like? Or would you even need to be using conversion objectives? If you're doing because the point of conversion objectives was to like, get the algorithm use all this data it was getting Yeah, or to get a result? And then it needs a certain amount events in order to optimize? Yeah, well, if it's not getting all that data, you may never reach that unless you spend like $10,000 a day. Blake Beus  16:53  Yeah, I think I think we're going to need longer runways, when you first launch an ad for conversion objectives to get the right kind of data or you're using conversion objectives for that are super simple conversions. So for example, a conversion objective on a $500 purchase May in the past may have been fine. But now, that's that's too far down the road, people have to think about it, because what would happen in the past is people click on the ad, that maybe 500 bucks is not something a lot of people just buy on a whim. So they maybe come back and think about it, maybe bookmark the page and come back in a couple of days and then buy, well that that conversion, a couple of days later probably won't get communicated back and count towards your ads. Whereas historically used to if so, I would say we would like to use conversion objectives that can happen in a single session. Yeah. So So you're still within Facebook's browser window, you click on the ad, you're in the browser window, I make a gut decision right now in the first 30 seconds, I'm going to go for it. Yep. And I make that purchase, then that conversion objectives will probably get communicated back just fine. Because you're still within the ecosystem, you're still inside that same sandbox. Yep. And so the data in there can be shared. And that's, that's what I would think the the other thing to think about is you can use conversion objectives for like, percentage of video views and things like that, and then retarget, and follow those people up with just a general, you know, general targeting that just blast it out to everybody in that group. Because, again, that information is still all within the sandbox, if someone's watching a video on inside the Facebook app, and they're watching two minutes of this four minute video, and you're targeting people that watch two minutes or more. Facebook already knows that like that, that data is really available to the algorithm and you can retarget based on that very easily. Greg Marshall  18:47  Well, here's two things that I'm seeing currently running ads. Number one, there's been two ad accounts, where I almost shut the campaigns off, and then they picked up. But both of them had the same exact characteristics. It took 14 days before actually started to opt interesting. And then it picked up interest and then it's become consistent. What kind of a daily budget. Were you looking at? 100. So one is 150. And the other ones 200? Blake Beus  19:17  Were they at least like break? They were making some Yeah, it was breaking even so it wasn't like you're losing $150 a day for Greg Marshall  19:24  now. So it wasn't like $0 Yeah, it's just you were you were probably like at a point eight row ads. Blake Beus  19:31  So you lose a little bit of money. You're, you're losing about 20 bucks a day. Greg Marshall  19:35  Yeah. And so you're like, well, if it's not hitting you the temptations to relaunch. Yeah, but then after the 14 day period, now it's been consistent. Actually one of the other accounts the one account name talking about has actually jumped to 3.6 and the recharge 3.6x rose on cold traffic. Dan five on retargeting, what, but it's taking literally weeks weeks like enemy he was not interested in at all Blake Beus  20:04  interesting. Greg Marshall  20:05  And so what as I saw that I'm thinking, I'm wondering if and same thing, same budget $100 a day. Yeah. I don't see any of that with anything less than that. Yeah. So if you spent 2050 bucks there's there's literally no stability whatsoever. Yeah, it's almost like now before a lot of people that would get in like smaller companies, they could spend $20 or 10 or whatever. And in my experience, try testing those budgets is has an hour Blake Beus  20:31  interest. You have to be spending a budget or you putting into retargeting. Greg Marshall  20:36  The retarget on this one, I Blake Beus  20:38  believe is only 10. Okay, so targeting was pretty small. Yes. Okay. Greg Marshall  20:43  So yeah, sorry, I left that part. So the retargeting budgets. I always think of cold traffic. But yeah, the retargeting budgets, our website visitors, they haven't bought last 30 days using $10 A day budget, Blake Beus  20:54  interesting website visits. So I would say in my eyes I'm guessing retargeting website visitors is probably going to get worse and worse. Yeah, over time. Yep. And retargeting based on in app events is going to get is Greg Marshall  21:10  going to be the agent like Facebook or Instagram and gays in our video views. And so Blake Beus  21:15  one of the things I wish they would do, you can do this with a video you can do with a post is I wish you could retarget people from a specific post yes, that have interacted with a specific post? Because then you could you could build up some some things with image ads, you could do that with a video people have watched a portion of the video ad or whatever, but not a specific post Greg Marshall  21:36  or even like people who hovered over specific posts. Yeah, a certain amount of time. Yeah. Is that were expanded the comments. Yeah. Because that takes at least give you like, an insight on how qualified they are. But the other challenge you always run into is like the size of the audiences, right? Like, if you have something where let's say you're in an ultra niche market, it's a lot harder to build a retargeting audience than it is for like fitness or yeah, how to make money or more generalized topics. And so that might be where Facebook becomes more challenging is for highly niche audiences. That just, there's just not enough people. Yeah, to actually like, reach. That's where well and hit before I even move on to the next thing. Here's the other thing that I've been running a lot of tick tock ads. Oh, yeah. Early testing of the same. Like. So here's, here's something. So we spent let's see what campaigns $100 a day and others at the next Rama test is $200 a day to see a budget determines anything. Here's something that's super interesting about tick tock. You know, on Facebook, when you run, like, optimize for add to cart or view content, it tends to not do that well. So far on tick tock, if I optimize for purchase, it does horrible. Uh huh. But then if I optimize for Add to Cart, it does great, really. And it's very odd, because you're like, that's an easier conversion to get to add to cart. But I get more purchases optimizing for Add to Cart than I do for payment. And here's the thing, I changed no variables, same audience, I didn't have any competing. So I turned off the add to cart one. So like there's no overlap. I had multiple the same exact ads, everything the same, the targeting was the same, same budget, but no purchases on the one optimizing for purchase after three day period. And then the other one is $100 a day. And then the other one had I want to say was six purchases within the same timeframe. Same budget, same audience, but I was optimized for Add to Cart Blake Beus  23:46  interesting. In my eyes, that probably is an indicator that their algorithm is still young, it needs to be refined some more, because it's easy. Like that's an easier thing to capture algorithmically. I guess you help them it Greg Marshall  24:06  says add to cart. So I was I was curious. The other thing that was very interesting was, I like to look back at the data as far as accuracy. So so far, I'm still in like the early stages of optimizing for purchase, right? So I've only had around 30 purchases or so in the last few weeks. What I'm seeing though, is the accuracy of the ad, ads manager and the conversions are 100%. Really, so every single purchase that came in through Tik Tok shows on the ads manager 100% accuracy. So it was there was none off because I went to went and I'm using a Shopify store. I went into Shopify, look through all the traffic, the traffic actually says tick tock, this person converted from there, and the exact number of tick tock buyers showed up on the ads manager, which I thought was. That's interesting, really unique because i How are they getting? Blake Beus  25:08  The same with Facebook and Google? It's always all over the place. And I might just be because coincidence. I mean, maybe I guess it's gonna say might just be because traffic from Tik Tok is very specific, right? Google's this massive ecosystem with all of these different platforms and everything. So it's, it's probably, there, there's so many different ways people can get to a particular landing page inside the Google ecosystem, sort of that that it's it's probably hard to identify even for Google or Shopify or whatever, where you know how to attribute that. Whereas with tick tock, it's like one path. Yep. So so that was my that would be my guess. But I really don't know. Greg Marshall  25:53  Because I was, I mean, well, to me, it sounds like a great guest. Because I was looking at it because I don't understand the the data science part behind how algorithms all work. And I was just looking at it like, wow, this is incredible. It is 100% accurate, like, how is and it tells you exactly how many events it separates it out to how many events have happened that the pixel has captured. And how many events came specifically from ads, which is different from the Facebook events manager? Yeah. Which clumps them all together? Yeah. And you have to use the ads manager to see yeah, here. It actually has a lineup, it almost feels like Tik Tok is looking at all the weaknesses of Facebook and what Facebook advertisers complain about. And are giving you those. Blake Beus  26:36  Yeah, I would guess, and this is all just a guest. But I would guess over time, that's going to get worse. So one of the things tick tock does, and this actually drives me nuts get like absolutely nuts. Excuse me, if if you click on a link in tic toc and go somewhere else, you're open, you get opened up in tic TOCs. Browser. Yeah, there is no way to get out of that browser. You you can't like all the other browsers, you have to you can click on a button, say, you know, open in my my Firefox browser or chrome browser or whatever. Or and I'm talking inside the app on web yet, but very few people use tick tock on the web, like so few. I can't even copy a link inside of the TIC tock browser by long pressing on it, copying it and opening it elsewhere, which, which I do that's part of my regular flow, because I like to keep certain tabs open to come back to them later. But within tick tock, tick tock, if you open up a link, you can't do anything other than go straight to that link. You are stuck inside their app. So maybe that's how they try and they're forcing that but I'm guessing over time due to pressure of people saying This sucks. Yep, that's going to go away. And you're probably going to start seeing less Greg Marshall  27:53  got it as the time to get accurate database. Yeah, Blake Beus  27:57  I guess. It tick tock tic TOCs an interesting one. Yeah, sure. So anyway, well, I don't have anything else to talk about on the subject. I think we've covered really well. Did you have anything else? Greg Marshall  28:08  No, I think that's okay, that covers it. That's where we're at. All right. Well, Greg, Blake Beus  28:13  how can people how can people chat with you? Well, Greg Marshall  28:15  if you want to chat, go ahead and go to Greg Marshall co book a call. You can talk strategy. And what about you Blake Beus  28:20  just Blake Beus calm? I kind of have everything on there. Greg Marshall  28:24  All right. Well, thanks, guys for listening, and we'll we'll talk to you next time. All right.  

Friday Jan 14, 2022

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript Greg Marshall  0:03  And ladies and gentlemen, we got our audio is actually working on this one this last time. We forgot to double check it. And and I thought it was a good one. Blake Beus  0:13  Yeah. It's good. It's it's good to be back. I think this is the first one we're actually recording in the new year. I mean, we've recorded some Yeah, before the new year and they launched after the new year, but now we're actually recording in the new year. So all of the holiday season is over now. 2022 Yeah, especially for us. And advertising is going to, I think advertising is going to take a big bunch of changes are going to, and you were just telling me right before Yeah, yeah. This this big, big admission? Greg Marshall  0:46  Yeah. Facebook, I couldn't believe it. That's why That's why I think I had to like do a double take, because I thought I was like, Is this real? So there was like a big notification on one of the ad accounts when I when I went on there. And essentially, it was Facebook saying we understand that tracking is not is accurate. And you know, and I'm paraphrasing here, basically, that you're you're seeing worse results tracking wise than you ever have. That's essentially what it was saying in a very nice, nice way. Blake Beus  1:17  Or they ran through a whole team of PR people or something but not opened ourselves up to any sort of legal acts. Yeah, having a terrible product. Greg Marshall  1:27  And that's, you know, and that's basically what it felt like, right is I was reading it, and I was saying, but we're working very hard to fix this. And so, with that being said, I think a lot of customers and people that are using ads are are coming to the realization, which was something that I felt like, I will communicate with clients a lot, which is, and we've done this for years, right? Where even when we thought Facebook was super accurate, it still wasn't no 100% accurate. And so it's just now less accurate. Which, you know, is, you know, what are your thoughts on that? Like, for me, I know what I see. And like, it doesn't really bother me that much. Because there's there's a way around, then yeah, it actually makes it a little bit more, where you have to, I guess be a little more skilled at what you're doing. But what are your thoughts? Blake Beus  2:21  Yeah, I'm gonna have a couple thoughts here for first and foremost, I feel like it's a little bit like Reagan in the Cold War when he said trust, but verify. Yeah. Except for I don't even know if I would entirely trust reported data into ad platforms. In fact, none of the ad platforms, right, just just the nature of how data works. It's never 100% accurate. So you always need to kind of verify it with with some hard data, right? So if, say hard data, yeah, if Facebook is saying you got 10 purchases, you look into your actual purchase system and see did you get 10 purchases that day, right. And so it's hard to pair up those purchases with a Facebook ad from your, from your purchase system, unless you're maybe dumping some traffic tracking codes into your purchase purchasing system, then you can but but you just want to kind of double double check. The second thing, the second thought that comes to my mind is, is I think we're gonna start seeing a lot more companies turn more and more to good media buyers and advertiser advertisers, because Facebook used to be a very easy platform for an entrepreneur to hop in there and kind of do their own thing. But so many things are changing with how tracking works, and how everything works, that media buyers are going to have to step up their game and the media buyers that are fastest at learning, the new things and fastest testing things are going to be the media buyers that are going to succeed in 2022. And beyond. And more companies are going to hold their media buyers to higher standards of communication and talking through what's going on and explaining those things. And more companies are going to look for media buyers to help them with this because it's becoming more and more time consuming for them to manage it themselves. Greg Marshall  4:08  Well, I what I'm seeing just from an inquiry standpoint, I'm definitely having more people reach out needing help with their, their Facebook ads. Yep. And what that tells me is it is becoming harder and harder meaning the the novice, were in the past, you could literally just go in member like even you can even set up your picks without having to do website domain verifications and doing all and setting up your aggregate event. He didn't do any of that, right? You get a piece of code or a number. And you put it on your website and you started running ads. And essentially, the pixel algorithm did all the work right? Right now it's actually you have to do most of it. And so because now there's More people reaching out needing help. That right there tells me that it's just getting harder to track, it's getting harder to track and you can't get away with like, the easy stuff that you could have back in the day. Now, it's actually, you have to think this through and come up with a real strategy, right. And one of the one of the things that I've been thinking about recently that may change, and since you understand the back end data more, you can verify this, but in my opinion, I don't see any of this tracking that we've had in the past ever coming back. I don't think there will ever be a time where you can track every piece of behavior. And when I say track meaning off platforms, right, right. So like, with if you're on Facebook, or on Google or on YouTube, I believe that's not going anywhere, because they like own that. And they can track all that but meaning the behaviors that you made when you went off of the platform. So Blake Beus  6:00  and what we talked about what Greg means by that is, when you click on a link to take you off of Facebook, now you're on say, my website, Blake Beus calm. Yeah. I used to be able to track and send a lot of data back into Facebook, using their pixel just kind of did it automatically. Now that data is limited. Facebook doesn't see as much of what's going on when someone's going around on my site. Yep. That that they did 345 years ago. Greg Marshall  6:28  Yep. So I feel like one of the big changes that will happen, or strategies or moves that you'll have to do is get really good at in app. Just you know, retargeting tracking, setting up. So the fundamentals are always the same, right? build awareness, engage with them, and then convert them. Yeah. But instead of you could just a few years ago, not even two, three years ago, you could actually skip a lot of that you could just go straight for purchase, like just just buy. Yeah. And you didn't have to warm people up and use kind of the quote unquote, old school methods. But I feel like it's gonna we're going to be forced to do that. Yeah, to be forced. Go back to that. And that's where it becomes a little more challenging, because you're, you're losing your teammate base. Blake Beus  7:17  Yeah, and like, I think what a lot of people realize is, is, well, I think about it this way. This is going to make lazy advertisers drop the platform. And unfortunately, businesses that are a little bit less sophisticated with advertising are going to maybe just drop online advertising altogether. But what that means is you're going to have more sophisticated advertisers on platform and everything like that. But to talk about your point, when you start talking about off platform versus on platform, what I'm going to what I'm going to guess is going to see a lot lot lot more improvement a lot more use is retargeting based on on platform events. Yes, right. And you brought this up, you taught you right before this call, you brought this up talking about retargeting based on video views, which is not a new strategy. Yeah. But but to to explain to you how this works. You know, you who out there is listening. If someone is watching a video on the Facebook platform that you uploaded, Facebook knows and can fully track your behavior, your customers and visitors and viewers behavior on that. And then you can retarget those people based on those, those events, the events where we can't retarget as good anymore. With it with as good of accuracy is the events that happen on my website. Yep, yep. Right. So that so basically what that means is, Greg Marshall  8:50  you'll have to, I feel like this is what's gonna happen is you'll have to be very good at enap retargeting and thinking about the entire, like flow of them. And I also think that there's a couple of changes that are happening on these platforms that are going to impact that. So number one, did you see the update with Instagram? That's gonna roll out here soon. We're gonna change the option to do chronological. Yes, based on I did, I did, I did. I think that's a big indicator that the algorithms are gonna have to switch. Mm hmm. Because now since they have way less data, they now need to, I feel like they need to focus heavier on making sure people don't jump ship completely off the platform. So now they actually are like going backwards. So making because if you need to do in app ads, you need people to use the apps you write. And people have been complaining about the algorithm saying I don't see any of my friends posts. I just see what you're feeding me. Yeah. And that's something that I believe forces people on other platforms? Yeah. Because they're seeing stuff they don't really, they're not choosing to see it's their Facebook is dictating. Yeah, what they see right now they're offering that option back. And I feel like that's going to be a big That, to me that communicates a shift. And they understand they're probably gonna have to do a lot more in app conversions type model. So they need people to stay on. Blake Beus  10:23  They need people to not leave the app. And to be fair, that was the goal. That's been their goal all along. The longer people are on their app, the more money they make from advertisers, the more eyeball inventory, yeah, they can, they can sell advertisers. But I did see that I mean, Instagrams feed used to be chronological, and then they switched it, claiming, quote, it's going to be better experience, we're going to give you posts, that's nice, that's corporate, that's a marketer speak for we're gonna make a whole lot more money by showing you the posts, we want you to see and not give you a choice what you can see. But I feel like Instagram has been feeling the heat from things like tick tock, oh, there's, there's, and they're and they're reverting back to the old way of things on the for their people's feed, or at least giving people the option to view their feed that way, and giving them the option choose how they want to eat. Am I in a mood right now to explore content that I may not be aware of? Yeah, or am I in the mood right now to only see the content of people I know and, and want to see that content. And so they're giving people that option to keep them more interested in the platform. I ultimately think that is a good move for most people, though, because I hated when they got rid of the chronological feed. I Greg Marshall  11:39  was like, I love the craft. And here's the thing, kind of the irony of all this is, there's a there's a podcast I like to listen to, and he talks about this all the time, which is competition is good. Instagram, and Facebook would never do this. If tick tock wasn't the number one visited website last year. Growing, right. And that's, this is a good lesson to show you can never believe you're bigger than your customer base, because they will leave the second a better experience or service comes out. And this you know, tick tock right now, like I remember, just two years ago, there was almost no one using tick tock. No. Blake Beus  12:20  I used to think tick tock was stupid. Me too. And I use it a lot. Greg Marshall  12:23  And I'm on there. I mean, it might be to be honest, it's getting close, you choose my favorite platform, but tick tock is getting very close, because there's a lot of fun stuff on there, and cool content and and that's the thing. That's that's where I feel like these changes are being made to enhance the user experience on their platforms, because they now feel threatened. I feel because this other platform is gaining so much momentum. Yeah. Blake Beus  12:50  Yeah. Yeah. So I completely agree with you about you know, the the competition being good. What is is interesting, though, is the players are having to play different and one of the things that I find very interesting with with tick tock versus all of the others is from like, a, a business perspective. And I don't know if you're still seeing this, but from a business perspective. I'm still seeing people are struggling big time to monetize tick tock. Yeah, I I listened to an interview of a guy that has nearly a million followers on tick tock, and he was talking about, you know, how many views and things he gets on stuff and he didn't talk about hard numbers, but I kind of went through and, and looked through his sales funnel from his home screen and everything. I I can't imagine this guy is making more than a few $1,000 a month off of his following. Whereas on Instagram, as someone has a million followers, I know a few people that have a million followers. And again, they they don't tell me how much money they make. Greg Marshall  13:53  But another day, Blake Beus  13:55  I mean, I trade up houses every couple years to bigger and bigger, bigger homes and they're driving super fancy cars, and this is literally their full time thing. They do nothing else other than this. So So Tik Tok is a platform is is fantastic, but it's not super mature from the monetizing perspective just yet. Yeah. But I definitely want to keep an eye on and I'm sure it will get figured out. Someone will. Someone I'm sure a few people have figured that out. Right. But But the other thing I found interesting about the Tick Tock platform when we can dive back into tracking and we wanted to talk about server cookieless trucking, but the one thing I found interesting about tick tock with this guy that has a million followers on Tiktok he'll have a video that will get 10 million views and then the next video will get 5000 Yeah, and then the next one will get 500,000 It's it's almost like the number of followers you have is has zero indication as to what you're going to get view wise Yeah. And and that all has to do with how their algorithm works and everything. But the number of followers you have is a flex yes does give you authority to people's eyes, and can be leveraged to monetize in ways and just say, well, this person has a million followers. So they're selling washing machines. And I saw this guy, he's got, like, 500,000 followers, and he's this local appliance seller in Canada. Gog. I love his video. Yes. So good. Yeah. And I'm sure he's the best seller in that area, because he has 500,000 followers on Tiktok. But anyway, we wanted we kind of got off track, but we want to talk about tracking the track Greg Marshall  15:45  because we have to talk about if you're going to go the cookieless world, then an app experiences is going to play a big role a big role. Yeah. On content, what's what type of content is being put out there. And I do think one of the advantages at the moment that Tik Tok has, and this may be a strategy of theirs is they are making it easier. There's, there's less limitations to what you can put, like what you can put out in order to get more views. And the regular user that doesn't have a lot of followers can still get a lot of views. Right. And so I think that is what hooks more people in is because the opposite is true. Instagram face. Absolutely. Greg Marshall  16:31  If you have 10 followers, there's no way you're going to get well not no way but the likelihood is very small, that you'll get a lot of views versus on Tik Tok, you can literally have like five followers come up with a video. That's pretty good. And you can still get 10,000 views. Easy, right? Yeah. And so that's why I think that may be a strategy of theirs is to help people get seen more, because they know the biggest complaint that people have on Instagram. Is no one sees anything. Blake Beus  17:00  No, yeah, if no one sees anything, and they tried to fix that with reels. And you can on rails, if you've done rails you can get with you know, so you have 1000 followers, you can get 10,000 15,000 20,000 views. Yep. But it's not as it's harder to amplify that then than it is on Tik Tok. But it's easier to turn it into money on Instagram. So there's there's like Greg Marshall  17:26  those a trade trade off? Well, let's let's talk about cookieless. Tracking, right. So cooking is basically meaning not being able to track people all over the internet. Yeah, so Blake Beus  17:37  let's just real quick tech, deep dive on on cookies, right. So when someone comes to my website, you're going to have a script, set a cookie on the browser, it's literally this little tiny piece of data that sits inside your web browser that can then be sent consent events back to your server. That's not how it really works. But that's how effectively it works for a technical person. So but the thing with cookies is they're very easy to block, right? So you have ad blockers, iOS 1415 plus whatever, they're they're just blocking any sort of tracking cookies. And, and they, they can just have errors with network problems, right? Because the internet feels like it's pretty great. But there's a lot of dropped data packets behind the scenes that can cause problems. So yeah, Greg Marshall  18:27  I heard Google Chrome's taking. Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be taken Absolutely. But Blake Beus  18:30  Google, Google as an advertiser, Facebook as an advertiser, and a few others have announced that they are going to be moving forward with cookieless. Tracking. Yeah, so it is going to be the future. Yep. And what does that mean for people? Well, well, what what that means is, for many people is you're either going to have to do your tracking in app, or using an in app browser, which tic TOCs in a browser. pisses me off is not good? Well, it won't let you leave it. Meaning meaning so on on Facebook, if I click on a Facebook ad, it opens up in their web browser. But I can click on that and click on the buttons that say, Hey, open this up in my phone, whatever, right? So if I'm looking at my phone, tic TOCs phone browser, you can't do that. They force you to stay in there. I can't copy the URL on any buddies profile pages and open it up in a different browser. So you have to use their browser and I guarantee that's because they want to force their tracking. Oh, yeah. Cuz on it's gonna be it's gonna You're still in app at that point. You know, you're maybe on my websites gonna be the new way. Yeah. And so it's frustrating, but I think that's what they're doing. But But then you're what you're gonna see is you're gonna see a lot of people, right? You're going to probably need to have a better website hosting server infrastructure to send data back to Facebook and Google whatever. And what I mean by that when when someone lands on On my website, their own web browser on their own computer sends the the tracking code and information back to the Facebook's ad platform. But the new way is going to be your web host, will send it from server to server send that tracking information background. But that was going to require your that you are on a web host that has those capabilities. So we're going to start seeing that pop up and become more and more and more interesting because most web hosts don't support that at all right now. And that is going to give us much more accurate information. When we send this data server to server. both Facebook and Google already have that capabilities. It's just that most people are on a server platform that doesn't support it. Got it. So we're gonna see more and more and more of that happening. And so it's not super urgent right now. But people are going again, this is one of those things where I said, people are going to need to reach out to media buyers, because it's getting more sophisticated. Well picture, people are going to need to reach out to more sophisticated hosting platforms, or even companies that do managed services with hosting to set this up properly and manage it properly for them. Greg Marshall  21:17  What do you think? Here's a question for them. What do you think? All right, so a lot of the reasons in the past with pixels. And what made it effective is not only the targeting, but the optimization, right? So the more data you fed back into the account, typically, the lower your cost per purchase will start to become Yeah, what do you think will happen with an app? Essentially? How do you do that? If there's no real information really getting pushed as effectively in the past back into your ad account? Because that's where all the optimizations happen. Blake Beus  21:55  Right. So I think, I think what people are going to need to do more and more and more is leverage the offline conversions features that is both in Facebook and Google. And what that is for for you that may not know is, if I have a list of customers that purchased yesterday, I can essentially upload that list in a CSV file, or write some software to push it manually push that over there with a couple of unique identifiers, their email address, maybe the NPC ID that they would that gets appended to the URL when someone clicks on a page, send that data back into the Facebook platform. And then and then you'll you'll be optimizing that way. Also, you'll have server platforms that can optimize. And so you might the net effect, if you're doing both of those, you might actually get more optimization data than you were with the pixel. Yeah. But there's more setup more, it's hard. It's hard to say it's harder and logic. Yeah, it's just not done for you. Right, the pixel was he so you copy and paste some code on your site, and it's done. This is another level. Greg Marshall  23:07  One, this is like, what some of my clients to like, some of them aren't even aware of what a CSV file is. Yeah. Right. Blake Beus  23:15  And where should they have to? Like they do, they don't necessarily need to know that to run a successful business doing, I don't know, plumbing or something like that. Right. In and, you know, that's why they outsource to people like you or whatever. But, but yeah, it's Greg Marshall  23:33  well, here's Okay, so here's another question for you from the data side. So like companies like a high growth? How does this impact if it becomes cookieless? How does that impact a business like that? Blake Beus  23:46  So Hieros, and companies like Hieros, they all claim to be able to handle cookieless. But none of them really do it. Okay. iros runs into the exact same problems. And the reason it worked really well, at the beginning was because the cookies weren't noticed as tracking cookies, and they weren't blocked yet, because they were a new player out there. And they weren't big enough for Apple to care about for ad blockers to care about. But they still they still are using cookies and everything. And so what Hieros if you look at setting up Hieros, or some of these other platforms, what they have you do for their quote, unquote, cookieless support is either build some way to push data directly into their platform from your server, yeah, or upload a CSV file of your data into the server. So it's the same, it's the same kind of thing, right? Offline conversion, essentially the same kind of thing and they handle the conversion tracking, a little bit different and probably a little bit better for some use cases than like Facebook does or whatever. And it's probably a little bit easier to integrate into their system from server to server than it is to maybe Facebook or something like that. I don't know, I haven't actually done an integration. I've looked into it. But they're, they're going to bump into the same problems. And I have looked at their site and I have seen when I run an ad blocker on on Hieros website is a blocker, it blocks any site that I know that that is running Hieros, it will block those transactions. So they're bumping into the same problem. Greg Marshall  25:24  Again, too big, Blake Beus  25:26  they're getting too big. And they wanted to push the easy button because they needed to onboard enough clients and copying and pasting some cookie tracking code is the easiest way to get more clients. If you have a sophisticated integration process. You can't onboard a bunch of new clients. If you're a brand new startup, you need to onboard a bunch of clients before you start becoming cashflow positive. And so they push the easy button. I'm confident they'll they already have plans in the works to have deeper integrations and things for those people that need it. But they're bumping into the same problems. Greg Marshall  25:57  Well, here's a question, you know, just from like a super high level. Alright, so why why is there such an anti tracking issue? What meaning Why is it such a big? Like? It seems like one of the challenges with digital marketing is attribution we've talked about? Yeah. And it seems like, anytime a solution comes out, it eventually gets blocked. Yeah. So my question is, from a high level, philosophical reasons, why do you think there is such an issue? With the tracking when it comes to the marking? Meaning? Why does each company want to stop or block it? Blake Beus  26:43  I think it's a big question. And then as a big conversation, I think there's a couple of different reasons. Reason number one, I feel like that it's, it's so that these big companies can try to gain a competitive advantage. So a lot, a lot of people know this. But Apple has its own advertising network. It's specifically for apps in their app store, on iOS devices, but they have an advertising network platform. So they very conveniently blocked all of Facebook's ability to track and then came up with and then came up with rules that Facebook had to follow in order for them to be partially tracked on the platform. And, and but conveniently, Apple still allows their own tracking cookies on their own ad network. Strange, right? And so So, so that's one of the reasons and here we have to, I don't know what they're worth trillion dollar companies butting heads, and the consumers are over here saying, I just want I just want my shit to work. Greg Marshall  27:49  I just, I just want my business. Yeah, no, it's working. Yeah, that's it. Blake Beus  27:54  Yep. And then the other part of why tracking is because in the past companies, specifically Facebook, we have the whole Cambridge analytic a thing, and 2016, where they were very clearly abusing the amount of data that was collected, and giving it to their advertising partners to a scary level. And so protections, new new legislation came out. Europe launched a whole bunch of new legislation. That's why there's the GDPR, California came up with its own, like cookie tracking registration or stuff. So there's all these new things that came out, because of the abuse of data collection. And really, most people, most people don't know how much data is collected about them by advertisers and then sold to other average other advertisers. And if most people knew how much data was collected about them, they would probably not be not feel comfortable with that. Sure. But you and I know how much it is. And I'm like, Yeah, I'm like, I still want to use Facebook. Greg Marshall  29:05  But yeah, what's my alternative? Right? Well enter the cave and have no internet and no, yeah, access to the way the world right now. And sometimes Blake Beus  29:12  that sounds nice. But it's not in reality, it's not sustainable. So so that's kind of the two the two sides of it. The other thing is is like a matter and this is a little bit of a deep, deep and going off the deep end here, but it's a matter of custody, right? And what I mean by custody is, is who owns that data? And are they taking good care of it? Right? So if Facebook knows a whole lot about me where I'm going because they have GPS enabled on my phone, what stores I'm at, I know who I'm talking with, because I'm sitting next to Greg right here for for an hour and our phones are right next to each other. So clearly Greg and I know each other so it's gonna show up. Hey, do you know Greg Yeah, next time we see each other, like, like, they know a lot about me and are they taking good care of that data and and making sure that it's secure? Yeah. So that Hackers can't get to it, are they making sure that they are doing with they are being transparent about what they're doing with that data, and a few other things because people have a reasonable right to privacy. But with digital, that line is lousy. And the laws kind of don't catch up with how fast technology advances and how fast how technologically knowledgeable the general population is. And so there's this like gray area where Greg Marshall  30:29  they're really smart people can be steps ahead. Yes. And he's right. And yeah, bad, bad actors and bad people could could abuse that kind of like a sporting event where you know, the play of the other team. I don't know that you know that. Exactly. So you can't exactly easily win. And I guess, so I guess that's probably the biggest thing. And so I think with this with this episode, the, the key changes that I believe will be made from from a marketing standpoint is get really good at in App Tracking, get really good at coming up with true media buying true messaging, and you're just gonna have to do things differently. And the same at the same time, right. So like, you're gonna use the same thought process and concepts that you were using before, when you had access to all of the tracking outside of the platform, but you just are going to do it within. Right, right. And so I just got to get really good now, being able to understand what's happening, who to target, and what behaviors indicate that this may happen. So you're going to use a lot of the same thinking patterns. Yeah, it's just mostly going to happen within that, right, Blake Beus  31:46  you just need to maybe shift how you're handling retargeting and shift your understanding of how tracking works. And I would say, take a big step back. And if you're going to dump a ton of time into something surrounding your marketing, I would spend that time and energy on your marketing message and your offer. Yep. Right. Because you're at the end of the day, you're speaking with people. So you want to trigger those, those emotions that are going to get them to take action, you want to be very clear about not only what features your product or offer has, but what benefits and what what that actually means to to them and what they want their hopes and dreams and helps them run away from their fears and anxieties, and focus on those things. So that's where I would do my time and then I would maybe look into kind of outsourcing or offloading some of the technical bits Yeah. To a consultant or a media buyer or someone that you can do some brainstorming with and then can help set up the tracking and everything that demand Greg Marshall  32:46  is gonna go up I think big time. Yeah, I Blake Beus  32:49  think I definitely think so. Greg Marshall  32:52  Well, I think outside of that, I guess we will Blake how to get how do people get a hold of you if they need to? Blake Beus  32:58  Yeah, just go to just go to Blake Beus stock calm. And you can you can see a couple things I have going on there I have my SM three membership, which help. It's like it's like a group membership where we do 90% Done For You kind of content creation where you kind of puzzle piece the things together. And then trainings and community and challenges and stuff like that. That's the main offer I have right now. And you can just find that at Blake calm. And what about you, Greg, Greg Marshall  33:23  you can just go to Greg And if you need help with any your marketing, you need a strategy call. Just go ahead and book one and we can hop on and talk about how we can help you so outside of that. Thanks for listening and we'll talk to you guys next time. Yeah, Blake Beus  33:37  we'll talk take we'll catch you later.  

Wednesday Jan 05, 2022

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript   Blake Beus  0:00  We're recording now. And it is moving now. Greg Marshall  0:03  All right. We just had a wonderful experience where we record a beautiful podcast for you guys. But for whatever reason, technology just paused on us. So Blake Beus  0:12  I was the best one. It's, but it's gone. It's it's gone forever. But But we got this and we'll, we'll do it again. And I think we'll we'll make it even better. Greg Marshall  0:22  Oh, yeah. 100% agree. So basically, our last podcast was about essentially, you know, when people people want to change, what they do that's already working? Well, you shouldn't write like, a challenge that I have, with a lot of clients, as I actually talked to them about, I have to talk them into not changing what's already working, because they're becoming bored with their own marketing campaigns. And so they want to, like, shift them, or let's try something new, or everyone in the whole world is seeing this, or my customers are too bombarded, which that typically is more about, we're thinking about ourselves too much right thing like, because I saw this 20 times, because I'm on the back end of my business that everyone else saw 20 times. But trust me they have. Yeah, because you got to spend a lot of money. Blake Beus  1:13  Yeah, well, and what kind of sparked the whole conversations before we started recording the first time that didn't record correctly? You made a statement to me that kind of just really caught my attention. You said, I can't tell you how many times I have to have conversation with clients telling them not to change things not to make changes that that things are working. But they they want to like keep switching steps. Right. And we went off on a big tangent about why people do Yeah, some of that is never going to never going to be heard ever. Yeah. But I do remember some some bits of it. And one of them we were talking about? Well, let me let me tell you, you have some great ideas on why you think people want to change something that's working. They're spending, you know, $500 a day and they're getting $2,000 A day back. Yeah. And they want to shut the campaign down and try something. Greg Marshall  2:08  Yeah, yeah. So those are basically the reasons why people want to do that. It's fear based, right. And we all run run into this, we're not excluding us, we're just saying, this is something that we all have to constantly, you know, be aware of, are we making decisions based off fear, or actual data, a lot of times, people present data in a way where they think it's data, but it's actually fear based. And they've just come up with a great argument, right. But really, it's two fears of fear. Number one is the fear of kind of looking like played out, like people see your stuff too much. Or like, you know, they've already done that there's no creativity in that. And, you know, creators pride themselves on having new stuff and coming up with new ideas. So it goes against their internal kind of makeup, to keep showing the same thing over and over again. And so one is they don't want to look like, you know, they're played out or going out of style, because they keep doing the same thing. And number two, is the fear of lack of resources, right? So they believe that, well, if I add on to what I'm already doing, I may not have the money, the mental capacity or the time to actually do this. So they want to cut things off. And another kind of reason for that is, when there's more things happening, there tends to be a feeling of loss of control. So the fastest way to kind of feel like you're back in control, is to stop something, or cut it off. And so that's, that's where I think a lot of that comes from, Blake Beus  3:29  yeah, do you? Do you think that sometimes there's like this pressure from peers, or even a perceived pressure or pressure that doesn't really exist other other than something we put on ourselves, or the business owner puts on themselves? That, that I want my peers out there that are also business owners to, to respect me and think that I'm innovative or think that I'm always reaching certain levels or doing things and I'm worried that they're going to think I'm boring and lame, if I keep selling the same T shirt over and over and over again, even though it's making me loads of money. Yes, Greg Marshall  4:03  yeah. So I think that definitely comes into play, especially when you have, you know, I had this situation happen to me before, where you have an outside adviser that doesn't actually have the experience yet. In this field, they're very skilled, but they don't have the actual experience yet making suggestions that are the right decisions, and another business model, but not in this one. Right. Okay. So I'm not saying this person does not know what they're doing, or that, you know, their their advice is, like, done with ill will or even not credible, I'm saying is the advice is applicable to that particular industry, but it doesn't transfer over 100%. So, my example would be like, I can't say because I understand, you know, digital marketing that I now know how to do heart surgery. Because I've had success of digital marketing, right? My advice might be keep doing the same thing in the digital marketing world. But that may be terrible advice. If I'm like, operating on someone's heart, right? I mean that that could be, you know, catastrophic. So what I mean is, typically what happens is, outside noise definitely impacts how people can behave, particularly if they're tied emotionally, to what the product is like, they made it, they tend to, they tend to, if anyone kind of goes after, they will actually take the criticism and try to change it. Mm hm. Because they're like, Oh, I can't be I can't have people viewing me this way, or thinking about things this way. So I need to change it. So you're absolutely outside forces all the time. And of course, if you're someone who communicates with family and friends, and they see what you're doing, people are always going to give you that sideline advice on how to do things they've never done. We've all run into, right, where you have family members telling, you really shouldn't do that, like, well, how many businesses? Have you started? Yeah, because I haven't seen a single one. So how Blake Beus  6:19  are you if they do, you know, do on a business, or whatever, your business might be totally different. And it's totally fine. I, I do understand very, very deeply the stress that comes from creating something yourself, yes. And then running your own ads. And that's something that I ran into. And that's really, that's literally the reason that you and I started working together. And we had met before that, but that's the reason we start working together. Because I had created my kind of initial product. I was running my own ads, and like, everything was so insanely stressful for me, because it was my thing, every time a negative comment would come in, I would be stressed because it was hard for me to not take that personally. Because this was all I had done. All of it. Yep. And delegating that to you. Took a lot of took a lot of stress off of my mind you didn't you say you had clients literally this week, reach out? Yeah, I can't take it anymore. Greg Marshall  7:19  Yep. Yep, I've had in the last two months alone, I've had a couple of new clients come in, where they know how to run ads, they have run ads before they were running them before they reached out. And they've taken all the courses and everything. But when they when they get in the game, as I call it is a lot different. Because you're not actually if we were all cold and emotionless, then the it wouldn't matter. You can step in and do anything, right? The problem is, when you're practicing, and you're not in the game, yet, you don't feel the pressures of when you actually have to go at your product. Now you're spending your money, and people are commenting, or not buy or buy and whatever. And now that you feel like that's a reflection of you as a person on your character. It starts to play games with you when you run an ads because you start to get emotionally tied to you know, is this going to work? Am I doing the right thing? Do people hate my products? Do I need to do this, I just switch it up. And it reveals a lot about how you handle a lot of other problems in your life, right. And I can speak from personal experience where it's like, you take these and you're like, if you have a tendency to go, if things aren't working out, you just scrap everything and you start all over again, that's essentially that's going to show up when you're running your ads. And that's not the best strategy. The best strategy is not to act, overly impulsive. And emotionally, the best strategy is to kind of like, change course, slightly, slowly, don't take anything personal, and make your decisions off data. The problem is when you get too close to it, your emotions are tied. We're all susceptible to this. This is like I said, we're not excluding ourselves. It's just now delegating it out will help because it allows you to stay in your strong space, and, you know, event essentially not ruin the part that needs to be run a certain way by getting overly emotional about it. Blake Beus  9:19  Yeah. Yeah, so one of the things and I liked your response to this in our previous one that no one's ever going to hear ever. But But I asked you, you know, do you do you feel like there's some sort of daily spend threshold are some arbitrary number different for everybody where, where they hit this certain spend and all of a sudden the anxiety goes goes through the roof, right? Because and I said this last one, I have worked with people where they think you're spending $100 A day in ADS. That's crazy. And then I've met other people worked with other people where they're like, I don't Don't even turn on a campaign if it's not at least 150 or $200 a day. And then, you know, and then you have people that are comfortable spending 1000s a day. Yep. Right. But you feel like people have some sort of threshold that they don't know about. And all of a sudden they hit it and, and shit hits the fan and anxiety goes through the roof, and they're freaking out? Greg Marshall  10:19  Oh, absolutely, there's no doubt about this. So every single client that I work with has their own threshold daily, that they can operate under and be just fine. Even though the number that they're deciding is not actually accurate. Okay, so for example, you'll have because it's all based on expectation levels, and the thing that will kill you, when coming up with a budget, the thing that will absolutely destroy is doing the what I'm spending today, times 30 times 12. And what that means is, if I'm spending $100 a day, if I spend that in 30 days, that's $3,000 a month, because what happens is you overly focus on that number, wit and what you're actually doing subconsciously that you don't realize is you're actually making the assumption that you're going to spend this money and get zero sales bet. That's actually how you decide you're not deciding, oh, if I spent 3000, I get like 2900 and sales. And I have 50% margin that really only spent like $1,500 out of pocket. It's $1,500 loss. It's not a $3,000 loss. Blake Beus  11:26  Right. Also, you're not going to keep spending a loss day in and day out of the campaign is literally just turn it off, turn it off, turn it off, because it's not working. But you're right. We like mentally, consciously. We're making the decision based on zero sales. Yeah. Why? That's why the hell do we do that? Like, I know, that's what my brain I've done. My brain does. Greg Marshall  11:49  And I know and that's why you laugh. I said, what you do is you take the daily times 30 times 12. Right, because you understand exactly, yeah, Blake Beus  11:57  I mean, in the last one you asked me, you know, cuz we hit we hit about three grand a day in sales on not in sales in spend on mine. And, and that's when like, I got it, I got ridiculous. Yeah, Greg Marshall  12:10  it was? Well, of course, because that's that's, you know, you you shared the story of like, you know, you're spending $3,000 a day and what does that mean? You're not actually taking it day by day making assessments or even week by week, what you're doing is you're saying, well, 3000 times 30 times trial, that's a million dollars, Aspen, I don't have a million dollars, right? Well, of course, you know, because what we're doing is we're running ads to grow that and if it doesn't work, we turn it off. Yeah, there's always a way out. And that's, that's the thing, but we play this game of like, I'm going to spend this much. And then assume I'm actually going to get zero sales back. Yeah, which is totally false. Unless you're a store that has like just started, that's not going to happen. And if you've got long history of like, you're always selling $10,000 a month, I can make the argument you should be testing more aggressively, trying more, you know, more things harder with your ad spent to try to ramp that up. Because your goal really should be to spend as much as you can. But the reason why you're not is because everyone has a bad experience or something that causes them to not be able or okay to spend it. Right, right. And so I think in that last episode that we talked about, I shared an experience that I ran into which I almost can guarantee, you are also running into this without either acknowledging it or not realizing it's even there. I had experience in the past where I couldn't spend more than $50 a day and ad spent, like I literally, I couldn't get myself to press the button, to even at 51 I couldn't do it. It was literally like a mental block. Because I had an experience where when we were spending ad dollars, we were making great returns great profits, everything was going great. But the people that I was surrounded by did not feel comfortable. They had their own spent number that made them feel very nervous and anxious and scared and kind of go into survival mentality. And so what happened was, I would get on the phone after this and just get hammered about, well, why are we spending this money? Well, and then when sales go down, because we spend less well, why don't we get as many sales? Why do we stop spending that much and it was a constant roller coaster? And it's because there was emotion tied to that. And what what basically the reason I'm sharing that it's because it took me a long time to be able to kind of release the brakes to that because I understood the reason why I can't get past this level is because I need to be spending more but the reason why I can't spend more is because I've internalized as negative experience as truth as a can never get around that. So therefore I had this like this little block or ceiling that I put on myself. That shouldn't be there should be removed. But on the one actually key was older. So that's the experience of how most business owners that are running as are having some level of success, they could reach the number that they have in their mind, or that they're idolizing someone else for reaching, they could reach it right now, if they just removed that block of doing the daily span times 30 times 12 in their head, they could get rid of that, they will be able to reach the goal. And I can almost say this. If, if if I could convince a client, let's say that was just like, you know, I'm going to take a risk. And I would say, I'm going to be the analytical person, I'm going to not allow you to see what's going on in the ad account. Okay, at all. I'm just going to run it based off of the numbers you said you need to achieve. I'm going to block you from being able to see what's being spent, and I'm going to maintain that number and grow it. I bet you would grow way faster. Because you wouldn't know what's going on. You would just you would just be like, Oh, well, sales more sales are coming in. And then numbers are working out. Yeah. But because you can't see it. You will freak yourself out. You'll spook yourself by just looking at it. I go, Oh, man, what if this happens? And he started playing whatever game? Blake Beus  16:23  Right. I think there's a caveat to that. Because with you definitely. But I think and this is something we don't talk about a lot. I think a lot of business owners have tried hiring someone to help them with ads. I'm guessing you are oftentimes not the first person they've worked with. I never have. And and many times you get someone that talks a big game. I mean, a lot of agencies do this. They they say yeah, we can definitely do this. They run ads for six months, blow other money. And then they say, well, it didn't work out. Sorry. Why? Right. And, and so and so I wonder if that's and this we have not talked about the last one. But I think I think that might be a reason why a lot of people are like, I need to see the numbers. Yep. Because they've been burned in the past. I know, when I was doing agency web dev stuff. Literally every person I talked with had been burned by a developer that had promised them they would get this thing done on time. And they didn't. And they were all super hesitant to hire me because I was way more expensive that I was like, I'm expensive because I deliver. Yeah, you know Greg Marshall  17:30  exactly, exactly. That's, that's actually a good point. Because every conversation that I've had, I won't say every but 90 out of 100 they either ran ads themselves, or that they hired another person an agency or took a course all kind of the same, right? Where it's like, we can get you, you know, these unrealistic results. And that's the problem is, a lot of the issues that people run into, is there being sold on unrealistic objectives or goals. For example, you see the, you know, the course, if you if you do these hacks, you'll get a 10 return. So, this is a conversation that I actually have often happy brought this up, because we didn't talk about this unless there's benefits to this. So there's an assumption because of bad players out there. They, their programs say that you should be getting a 5678 10 return on adspend on your dollar. And not only that, when you scale up, it should be the same. Right? So the belief is, well, if I spent $10 a day, right, and I got a five return on adspend. Then if I spent $10,000 a day, I should be able to maintain that near five return on investment, which is absolutely false. Correct. But a lot of these programs they teach that they kind of leave that part out, like oh, when you scale up, you should get that. So a lot of the conversations I actually what have with people that are new that used to work with someone else, is they they like to say this? Well, yeah, if I if I spent 100 And I'm making, you know, and they'll throw a ridiculous number. If I spent 100 I'm making like $5,000 Then why would I not spend 1000 and make like 50 And I know that's because that's not gonna Blake Beus  19:33  happen. That's because that's not realistic. And whoever told Greg Marshall  19:37  you that's lying, right? 100% Instead, what you need to do is think more realistically, how because if you could do that, then why is it the person that taught you how to do that? Why are they not on the cover of force is the richest person in the world. Right? Because then all they'd have to do is just go, well, I'll just spend a billion dollars and then I'll be worth 500 billion Don't be rich and everybody, I'll be richer than all the people. Right? But that's not how it works. Right? So what you have to think about is do it more or less thinking, if I put $1 in how do I get like, you know, a 50% return on my dollar? Not, you know, 20,000% return, because that's just not that's not gonna happen. That's just greedy. Right? That's, that's, Blake Beus  20:25  and you, I mean, maybe you get lucky, you spent $1. And you make one sale, and that's worth $100. So your return on investment is 100x, or whatever. But when you scale that up, it doesn't work. Yeah, it doesn't work that way. Because you're reaching more people. It's just how it's mathematically how things scale in the ad world. But like we said, and all of all of you know, we'll say this, again, I'm sure. But the companies out there, you're seeing running ads all over the place, the big companies, right, they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on ads. And in many times, they don't have a direct way to monetize those ads, think of like Pepsi and Coke, right? Like, these are massive brands. Yep. All of their marketing campaigns, you still have to go into a grocery store, buy, buy some and buy some coke, or some Pepsi, right? I'm not seeing a Coke or Pepsi out on Facebook and clicking it and buying coke to get delivered to my let me get a 12 pack delivered straight to my house right away right away, you know, let's do a try and ask me what's the return on adspend, I don't calculate return on adspend the same way you do, right. And so if you're comparing a company that's making, you know, $10 million a year, and your company is making $100,000 a year and you want to get to those levels, and you want to maintain the exact same row as you have right now, versus then it's not going to happen, you've got to explore other channels, and some are going to be more profitable, you got to scoop up a much larger market, and probably launch some new product lines, or some new product offers or something like that. You've got to explore these other things. Greg Marshall  21:57  Well, and I think, you know, speaking with, you know, how to manage your your psychology when you're doing that, if you okay, here's here's why you become stressed out, is number one, the fear of losing money, right? But you're not thinking rationally that's only emotion. Like if you spent 100, and you only sell 80, he didn't really lose $100. Right, that but you think you did, yeah. Or your mind will trick you into believing that that's not actually what happened, you may have lost $30, right? 40 bucks, right? Because you've accounted for all the cost and all that. But your mind will make you panic and keep doing going into survival. Right? The other thing is, if you go into running ads with unrealistic expectations, you're actually causing your own anxiety. Because if I went on a weight loss plan and said, If I don't lose 100 pounds, and the less and the next 14 days, something is seriously wrong, then every day, I'm going to be stressed out to the max because my expectation is unrealistic. I'm not gonna lose 100 pounds for today. So therefore, I shouldn't be thinking about that. Right? Right. I should be thinking about just lose two pounds a week. Yeah, eventually I'll get there. Right, right, that's how you should be looking at your ad account is if I can get a 20 3040 50% return on my dollar. And I can do that over an extended period of time. That's how I'm actually going to become wealthier than if I try to hit homeruns. And go, I need to spend, you know, $100 and get a 1 million return back, it ain't it's just not going to happen. So that's what causes your own anxiety is your unrealistic expectation of what should be happening. And I don't blame anyone, because they just don't know. But my goal in this pocket is to explain to you how this actually works, right. And the way it works is you got to look at your ads as a way to get decent returns on the front end. So on the back end, your email marketing and your new product launches and all that can make you all of the profit because you've acquired those customers. Right? Right. If you look at it that way, you would be a lot more aggressive with your advertising versus thinking, my advertising suppose if I put $1 in, I'm going to get $10 back for ever at unlimited spend scale. Right, right. Blake Beus  24:19  Yeah, so it's, I mean, we we talked about this in the last one but essentially two things. I think this episode should be named Zen in the art of advertising because it really is this this mental game and people talk about a mental mind shift whatever a lot, but I feel like a lot of the Guru's kind of missed that. Like, everybody has some sort of hang ups when it comes to running a business running ads, whatever. And this kind of exposes those things. And so the best media buyer is one that's also a good, a good therapist, and you know, so hat make sure you have those realistic expectations, make sure you're you're not doing something to try to just get rich and the next 30 days, the the courses and the people telling you that that's that's what they can help you do. It's it's a statistical anomaly, right? Like, that's not realistic the people that have the good businesses, the successful businesses that are working long term are those that grew steadily, slowly made smart decisions and kept doing what was working. Yep. And didn't just throw that out the window to manage their own anxieties to try to start something new. To bring us back to kind of our initial topic, I really do feel like a lot of people, if you're getting sick of running, selling the same coffee mug, even those make you so much money as a business owner, you delegate that out, delegate that off have, have your media buyer or your other team members work on that. And you work together putting another offer, whether that's a new product, whether that's a companion product, or maybe that's some sort of bundle, we've talked about bundles, we love bundle, yes, yes, they're the best. But come up with some cool, unique, interesting angle to then say, okay, media buyer, Greg, here's this new bundle I've worked with, you know, I've reached out to a lot of my customers, I feel like this is going to be the next kind of interesting combination to put things together or interesting companion product or whatever, let's test this while also keeping all that stuff running, because you've already got that stuff figured out. Yeah, well, we'll leave that going. And that's how you scale up a business, right? With stability, maintaining stability, without the fluctuations and, and into the long term, you know, kind of success? Greg Marshall  26:36  Well, and the thing, if I can emphasize anything, there is a benefit of delegating as well is you can protect yourself from yourself. Because the worst thing you can do, when especially when running ads, but same in business and everything, you never make your best decisions at your highest emotional peaks. Right? You actually make terrible decisions, the more emotionally stimulated you are, right, because you're no longer thinking rationally, right? And you go into survival instincts. And so one of the things that, you know, I'm thinking of a couple scenarios that I've run into where things are working really well. But because we've surpassed that, like threshold, that daily budget span, threshold, the stories and falseness that we tell each other, while this happens to get out of it, just because we feel uncomfortable, we'll start manufacturing stories. This isn't profitable anymore, even though the numbers are showing that it is, it's just that you're trying to escape the discomfort of doing something you're not used to. Right, and you're going to the next level. So what we do is we come up with a story I like we try to nitpick it to say it's not working, but not really because any data showing that it's only because I feel very uncomfortable, I want to get out of this. Right, right. And I want to go back to where we were, where we can, you know, where I felt comfortable. Blake Beus  28:03  But then I'm also not comfortable with how with with what our revenue numbers were right? So so there's this push and pull. And that's why the conversation needs to be had. And, and and I've said this before, I'll say it again, I'll always say it. I'm a big fan of therapy, there's occupational therapists out there that actually help deal specifically with professionals in the work environment, and how to manage some of these uncomfortable things. I think that's fantastic, too, to pursue that and explore those options as well. But, Greg, I think we should wrap this one up. And unless you had anything final you had to Greg Marshall  28:40  say no really what I would say the final message, work on your emotional you know, your emotional intelligence, I guess, or focusing on how to manage your emotions, and be truthful to yourself when you're making decisions on if you want to grow, you're gonna have to do things outside your comfort zone and you will feel discomfort. So you have to do everything in your power to fight against the desire to go back to your comfort zone. Whatever it takes to not do that if you want to keep growing and so with that final statement if you want a free therapy session go to Greg Marshall Dotco book a free call with me But all jokes aside if you need help growing your business and you're not happy exactly where you're at and you'd like to grow it in a business minded mindset go ahead and book a call me Blake Beus  29:32  late How to Get a hold he just go to Blake Beus calm I've got a membership on there where I basically help coach train people with social media marketing specifically like organic marketing. But I do answer questions on ads when those pop up. And or you can just reach out to me contact me and we can have a chat on whatever I just like chatting with people. Yeah. All right. We'll talk to you guys later. Bye. See ya  

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