Modern Marketers with Blake Beus and Greg Marshall

Modern marketing tactics that anyone can use to scale and grow

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Wednesday Dec 22, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes       Transcript   Blake Beus  0:00  Okay, we are live. Greg, I want to start off first and foremost, asking you about you. You said you had some some, some feedback, some results based on what we talked about, in our last episode about success signals, soft signals. I can't remember all of them. But Greg Marshall  0:18  well, basically, it was an idea of remember, and I'm gonna make sure I give them credit. Depeche. Yes. And I don't know how to say his last name correctly, man, Dahlia Blake Beus  0:26  maendeleo. I think I think that's what it is. Yeah. Greg Marshall  0:29  But basically, he was talking about a concept that I've thought of before and have tried and had success with. But everywhere you go, and look, you're told to not do right, which is, if you're not getting enough conversion events, which Facebook says you need to get 50 or more, then in a week, in a week. They, they're maybe you should optimize for the next highest step that's closest to what you want. And in a lot of cases, you know, the Facebook, you know, gurus or experts will say, Never optimize for those, because that's just poor quality traffic. But in my experience, I've never had that really happen. It's more so of it seems to give me better results when I'm optimizing for softer conversions if I'm not getting enough of like, let's say the purchase version in that week. Blake Beus  1:22  Yeah. Well, and we even talked about optimizing simultaneously. Yes. For softer conversion, yes. The the the purchase conversion, the add to cart conversion, and the view cart conversion, at the same time with different campaigns. Greg Marshall  1:38  Yep. And one of the campaigns the the account that I'm utilizing it on right now, in fact, that day that we implemented it, they actually did end up getting, what is it, we spent 50 and got $200 back, and I optimized for each event, the day that we implement it, which was kind of interesting, because then two days later, they almost repeated not to $200, they got to about like 170, or whatever, when previously on that particular like product that they're trying to push, we're spending 40 $50 a day and getting virtually I mean, just maybe a couple add to carts here and there, and no sales, Blake Beus  2:18  really, so a huge increase in ROI from zero to 200. Correct. And I'm assuming you're only spending $50 a day because you're testing strategies to before you ramp it up. Greg Marshall  2:29  Correct? Correct. So obviously, we don't want to go there, you know, dropping three, four hours a day on unproven right, you know, tests, right. And so then the another account that I've launched is with, they also so they stopped advertising for like about a month, which we all know, when you do that. It's almost like you have to like revamp your ad account. So what we did was we optimize for add to cart, and now simultaneously optimizing for purchase. Now previously, we launched a campaign just for purchase, and was getting $90 cost per purchase, whatever very expensive for the for the product, because it's the, the average order value is only 35. Okay, so Blake Beus  3:12  now I need to look at cost per purchase is not is terrible, that's not sustainable. Greg Marshall  3:17  So what we did was then I used the method of RM optimize for add to cart and then I'm going to go ahead and simultaneously once we get enough Add to Cart, duplicate the ad set, keep both of them running side by side and optimize the next one for purchase. And lo and behold, that day we got a $20 cost per purchase, the very day that we launched those simultaneous account wide, right? Because account why? Because Facebook's not going to give you this blended cost per purchase or if you're running multiple campaigns, correct. They're only going to give you a cost per purchase on each campaign. Correct? Correct. And so basically by duplicating that, that that goes against what they say, you know, remember we've I don't know, we've talked to this ad nauseum about audience overlap. Yes. And how real is that? Actually? Because what by duplicating? I'm literally targeting exact same audience. Yeah. And the first example I gave you same thing, the exact same eyes, it's one interest, the same interest on every single optimization. So I did not change audiences, nothing. The audiences are exactly the same, same. I'm just changing the conversion optimization event. Blake Beus  4:29  Okay. And then the conversion optimization is a campaign level set. Correct. So you have three campaigns? Yes. All targeting the same audience. Yep. One is optimized for for purchase Correct. One, the optimization objective is Add to cart, and one is view content. And if you're not familiar with view content, that's essentially a page load. Yep. For but it's a conversion of a page load. Well, and Greg Marshall  4:54  what's interesting about running those simultaneously is the more I'm talking about There's more. There's another ad account. So I'm actually doing the same thing with, we're optimizing for purchase, because they have enough purchase data for all we've done is duplicate the same audience look alike. 2554 year old female, three different times with different products. There's literally no increase in CPM. There's no increase in anything. But they're all getting purchases. Interest, right. And so I think, basically, this is too early to tell, right? It's only what it was seven days. So yeah, it's still early. But it's showing signs that there is some merit to optimizing for even soft conversions, and that it can help your entire account, even some of the campaigns that you're running that are not optimized for that highest level, right? Yeah, Blake Beus  5:51  it will. And this makes me realize, like, I'm not entirely surprised by this. I mean, sometimes it's hard to come up with, with an idea or concept like this, you need the idea to kind of be Spark, which is why we're here talking about it. But when we take a step back and look at it, if you understand how AI doing finger quotes, AI works as we don't true AI doesn't exist. It's machine learning. Yep. But how that works. And understand that there are these signals that it takes to identify the success or failure of things. It's just a whole bunch of like, if then statements. But if you understand how that works, from a high level, you can then realize, oh, okay, this totally makes sense. We just need to keep sending positive signals that I helped kind of people self identify to the algorithm that they're interested. And then the algorithm can go out and find more people with those similar traits. Yep. And it just makes a ton of sense. Feed Greg Marshall  6:51  it a good diet. Yeah. You Blake Beus  6:52  feed it a good day. Yeah. We talked about nutrition. Right? Not just, you know, you're not just feeding it dessert all the purchase conversion. Yes, sir. Right. You're feeding it a whole Greg Marshall  7:02  every course. Yeah. Vegetables. Yeah, carbohydrates. So I think it's, it's, it's interesting, though, I definitely would like to follow, I want to keep following up with this, I think maybe give you a small update every week to, to kind of maybe challenge some of these things that are given to us. Because another thing that I'm testing, because of this previous seven day test, is what happens if you have multiple conversions just within a single campaign. That's in a CBO. So campaign budget optimization. Because from what Depeche was saying, he says that, when you have set under CBO, the campaign keeps all the learning. So even if you turn off and duplicate new ad sets, the campaign itself was holding all of that data. So then with that being said, you could use this same formula, and keep duplicating ad sets, and build more and more data much quicker, and expand the size of your audiences over time. Because you can start with a laser targeted audience, duplicate it, and then put a bigger odds and a bigger audience. And hypothetically, if campaign budget optimization holds all those optimizations in there, and all the learnings, when you start to expand the broader, broader audiences, it should understand now who exactly we're going after. So you can find more of those people. I broader scale. So that's my next test is to actually see if there's merit to that. And what I'm going to test against it is, could you do the same at with ad set level, budgeting, keeping all the assets within the same campaign to really see if there's that big of a difference? Blake Beus  8:53  Right? And if you do that you can only have one objective per campaign, even with a CBO? Correct? Correct. Correct. Right. Right. Okay. So you're basically layering, ever expanding audiences in the CBO setup, right? Because the data learning is, is housed under the campaign umbrella. That'll be interesting, allegedly, right? Like a legit legit, like a court of law in here. Greg Marshall  9:21  But that's, that's kind of what I think, would be an interesting test to learn. Because if you could do that way, then you'd be able to systematically scale campaigns, and that matter, versus maybe more of like, chaotic manner of like, I think this is gonna work or maybe not right, and you can come up with a system until Facebook changes again, which will be a couple of weeks. Yeah. So that's how we cracked the code with a new code. Blake Beus  9:52  Well, I'm interested to see how this plays out. And I'm definitely going to be testing out some of these things on my own products and funnels. In the near future for sure. Well, I Greg Marshall  10:03  think that should segue us into the topic because these are all technical stuff right? You know messing with machine learning things duplicating answers and all that. But marketing never really changes from like, human behavior stamp. Yeah. And so you had a topic that you wanted to go over which I am excited to go into, which is what did you call ethical clickbait? Blake Beus  10:28  Clickbait ethical quick, right. This is actually one of my favorite subjects. Headlines are one of the most fascinating things for me too. I mean, I know this sounds nerdy and dorky but I love when you start looking at headlines and start looking and realizing that someone somewhere for a good headline someone somewhere stood over that headline for for way longer than you think a person should up and and and came up with something that that made you click on and I fall for this stuff all the time. I need to I have a really good eye at not falling for the dumb clickbait I'm like yeah, absolutely. Especially news story. Yes. Clickbait I'm out of that most of the time Yeah. If if a news story says something like so and so may be wanting yada yada yada I'm out I'm not clicking on me maybes especially if it's like a political figure or something. I'm like, I want I want solid facts. But when it comes to marketing materials or or something like that, or or YouTube video Yeah, I'm, I love it. I love it. And this whole topic was was sparked by by a video that I shared with Greg Yeah. And the YouTube channel is Veritasium it's a Science Channel. I do science Sunday with my kids and we watch science YouTube videos in the morning. And this is one of our channels. And he has one on on clickbait Yeah, and he talks about it and it's it's a great video. I can't remember what the title of that video is. But it got me thinking about how how you can actually have ethical clickbait that does trigger that part of our brain and curiosity gets us curious, gets us interested gets us to click on that link. But then also delivers on what the curiosity you know, whatever piqued the curiosity, and that's what I would consider, you know, ethical clickbait the kind of clickbait that everyone hates is the is the clickbait that's its it tease is that something grand and big or curious or scandalous? And then when you click on it, it's a non story. It's a non issue later. It's unrelated. And then and then moves on. Yeah, I mean, you see, you see it all the time, I saw one for a political scandal. And I had pictures of two politicians. One of them is a politician from my state that I'm not too thrilled with. Yeah, all the time. And so I clicked on the article. And it was the scandalous headline. Yeah, I read the article and has one sentence about my sander. And it was actually something that he did good. Yeah, to oppose the the, the the scandalous thing. And but it wasn't like a super great thing, either. It was kind of just a half measure effort. And I was so disappointed that I feel Yeah. Greg Marshall  13:22  Every once in a while you get one of those quickly, because you know, I'm susceptible like anyone else. But everyone's like, Oh, man, I clicked What a waste. I just wasted my time thinking that this is gonna be about something totally, you know, different or unrelated. So I think, but, you know, so let's talk about why headlines are important. Blake Beus  13:42  Okay, so headlines are important, because they're literally the first thing that people read or look at it. I mean, if you have an ad, some the term headline gets a little bit mushy. When you have like an ad in Facebook, cuz you have the image, you can have text in the image. So your headline is technically probably the text in the image, not the text underneath the image. But if you don't have text in the image, the headline is probably either your first sentence in your ad copy, or the the text underneath the image. So it's basically the text that people see first. Yep. Is is going to be what we would consider a headline right now. So at least we have that defined. Now, if we're talking about ethical clickbait it, it needs to be something that builds curiosity, when I first started running ads, my ad copy was was so bad. Yeah, it was terrible. And it would be something like I've written my ticket. It would be something that focused solely just on the features of whatever I was selling. Right. So So let's see, when I when I launch my social media content plan. At first it was something like social media calendar. Yeah. You know, and that was my headline. Yep. And I'm like, I think thought it was gonna be awesome. Yeah, we've all been there. It wasn't, it wasn't. So you need to have something that piques curiosity. And honestly, there are books out there that cover this subject subject in tons of depth. But let's, let's just talk about a few commonalities that I think both you and I could see. And I don't have a formula for this. But I've seen some formulas that I think work, not not formulas, I've seen some things that work well that you could probably use. The first thing I would say is, you absolutely need to have an understanding about two things about your customer, what they actually want. And what they actually are afraid of. Yep. Right. So their, their hopes and dreams. Yep. And their their fears and insecurities, essentially. And you know, you Greg Marshall  15:49  could also add to that to the second one, hate? Yes, that's because it's a powerful emotion. Blake Beus  15:56  Yes, it is. It is. And if you have a good understanding of those things, then your headline can be centered around this the concept of push and pull, right? We're going to pull them towards their hopes and dreams through our product or service, or we're going to push them away from their fears, insecurities and hates because of our product. Yep. And so that would be kind of the the first thing. So with the social media content plan, I shifted my headline to and this worked way better to be something along the lines of never, never stare at a blank screen again, when publishing your social media account, something along those lines. I mean, it was probably more juicy than that. But, but yeah, so Greg, tell me, I mean, what are you thinking? Are some of the good things that give you a good a good headline? Greg Marshall  16:45  Yeah, I think anything that draws big emotion, like you said postpone emotion and is very like polarizing, ooh, polarizing. Yes, that's absent. That's. So for example, if you have a love or a hate of something, then the headline by itself should be able to stir that emotion. Right. So it should trigger it in some way. For example, we all love Donald Trump. Right? Love. Blake Beus  17:18  He's a polarizing person, Greg Marshall  17:20  right? But they think about what is happening. I said, we all love Donald Trump, it becomes as uncomfortable. Yeah, because what it does is like, Donald Trump is a polarizing figure. And it draws big emotion on either side. And the way to get one side or the other to pay attention is actually like, use his name, and then say the opposite of the belief of the person watching it. So like Donald Trump does is the best, you know, president to ever, you know, be elected. And that's going to trigger one side, right? Blake Beus  17:58  And why would that trigger the most? Greg Marshall  18:00  I think it'll trigger more on bullet don't like that. Don't like him. So Blake Beus  18:03  if you wanted someone to click on that headline that did not like Donald Trump, you would use the headline, Donald Trump is the best president Correct? Here's why. Greg Marshall  18:16  Correct? Because what that does this like, there is no way that is possible, I have to see what kind of, you know, lie or made up thing that they're gonna say, and then I want to comment on it, which starts triggering a whole bunch of other things, right. And vice versa, you know, you would do it the other side. And so, to me, he's like the perfect sound because he is like the definition of Blake Beus  18:39  polarizing no, and no one I know. And I know people that love him, and I know no one I know. Phil's lukewarm. Yeah, Donald, like he's a he's okay, or whatever. Yep. I don't know a single person like that. I only know people that love him or hate him. Correct. And that's what we mean polarizing and you can do the same thing with your product or service. Something along along those lines you can one strategy I've seen a lot of people do is they'll they'll take down like a common belief share about a particular thing. And then they'll attack that. That common belief like it could be something if I wanted to target if I wanted to trigger advertisers Sure. I could say something I could say something along the lines of Facebook ads are dead, you should not use them moving this day forward. And I will get every advertiser to click on that link. Now I need to if to make this ethical click I need to be free. I need to like deliver on that which I don't think I could deliver on that unless unless I had some serious proof about a specific use case in a specific industry where Facebook ads just completely dropped the ball and fails. Then you could probably use a headline like that and still make it ethical clickbait Greg Marshall  19:51  well, and one thing that you just brought up I remember reading a book on Steve Jobs, and how he like prepared his speeches. I bought this book years ago, because I had to give a speech and I was like, Man, I, you know, I need a few pointers on how to position. And that was like the one that the only one that like made sense, but one of the things that he mentioned, is a good headline would actually be creating an enemy. Okay. And then this is what he did all the time with Microsoft. So he would build up the enemy, the story of Microsoft is bad. And we're good. Yeah. Right. And by creating headlines that maybe create an enemy, that's also very powerful as far as getting people to click it, because you're speaking to your base, essentially. Right, right. And that's another way I think of getting a headline to work really well, is to very powerfully talk about a subject that people feel attached to, and then prove it by showing the other side is wrong. Right? You see this in politics? Yes, with how they communicate about the left or the right or this. That's a good, it's a good thing to learn. If you're trying to get someone to consume something, your message is, is how do I speak to the base, where they're very attached to it, and then create an enemy of how they're trying to take this away from us? Oh, yeah, that's, that's like a very powerful, you know, click Beatty headline, is to be able to communicate that in a concise way. Blake Beus  21:35  I think you just summarized American politics 100. Because I do feel like so much effort is put into turning, you know, the other side into the enemy, therefore, vote for me, because they're going to screw up everything. Regardless of what side you're on. That's the exact same message, I feel like, you know, is said, and we probably see that in a bunch of other ways in advertising, but because it's not politics, yep. We, we, we see it and we kind of don't think about what's actually, what's actually, Greg Marshall  22:11  here's a question I have for you. Yeah. Since you're, you're a computer guy. Yeah. Right. So which computers better? Mac or Apple? Blake Beus  22:21  Mac or apple? I mean, Windows Greg Marshall  22:23  or Windows? Are or Apple windows? Or? Absolutely, that shows you how much I'm not. Which was better? Blake Beus  22:32  So I'm, for me, it depends. And I'm an I'm an IT depends kind of guy. I'm not a super, super passionate about that argument, like some people are Yep. I personally use Mac computers. But I dislike everything else about the Apple ecosystem. I don't like I don't like iPhones. I don't like the air pods. I don't like iPads. I don't like any of those other things. But I do like Apple computers. So I'm a little bit of an anomaly. But most people do have that question. And they're going to have a very strong opinion, it's going to be Windows or it's going to be apple. And usually, if it's a Windows guy, the windows person gonna see well, Apple, Apple is they just try to control you with everything and try to force you to use everything in their ecosystem and all of that, whereas Windows is much more open. And I can do kind of whatever I want on it. And then you get the Linux people and they're just out in left field. Those guys are right, those guys are deep, and I fit in that category A lot of the times but the apple people will will talk about the sleek design, and the the new processor that's super fast, which it totally is, and all of these, all of these different things. But a lot of people are very passionate about that subject. Greg Marshall  23:39  Well, I asked that question, because you're considered lukewarm. And look how many examples you just gave. Yeah. Microsoft is better than this. Apple is better than Linux better. Yeah. And those might even be all related. I don't know. But that's, that's the definition of like, if you're lukewarm, if you're trying to talk to people that are big time windows or big time Mac, or then you can basically kind of play off that and build the enemy on the other side. Right? Yeah. And that's, that's the whole point of like, the headline is, you almost have you almost have to do that, in order to spark someone's attention or grab, you know, grab their attention and interest. Because if not, it's just it's not going to be enough for them to go, I need to read this, I need to watch this. I need to do this. Blake Beus  24:29  Right. Right. Which leads me into the next point that I wanted to bring out. And this is where a lot of people go wrong. And this is where I went wrong for so long with headlines. And I see this all the time. But but but when you ask most people, what's the objective of the headline? Why are you writing this ad? Why do you have this image? Why do you have this headline? What are you trying to get people to do? And most people will say, Well, I want to get them to buy my product. Sure that's wrong. The purpose of the headlines too far too far down the road. The the the objective of your ad, your ad, copy your ad image, your ad video and your headline, specifically your headline is to get them to take the next step in your sales cycle, the next step in your customer journey and for an ad that is to click Greg Marshall  25:15  Yep, that's it. Blake Beus  25:15  That's the the whole point of all of those things is to get someone to click. Yep. And then and then the the the objective of your sales page is to get them to add it to the cart not to sell yet. Yep, add it to the cart. Right. And here's another thing a lot of people fail to realize, in in any sort of sales journey for a customer, you have multiple headlines. You have a headline on your ads. Yeah, you probably multiple ads at the same time. You have a headline on your sales page or your product page. You have a headline in your cart. People don't realize this, that headline in your cart matters. And then you have a headline in the card processing page. Yeah. Right. And all those headlines need to be considered at each step of that process, to get people to move to the next step. Yep. Right. And, you know, your your headline on your cart page could be very, very simple and very generic, because you don't always know what cart what items are in the cart. But your headline could be something very simple, like reassuring them. Yeah, right. 30 day 30 day guarantee simple checkout process, something like that, right? 100% secure, yep, whatever could be reassuring, or it just just whatever to remove any sort of final objections someone might have. But that headline also counts. Yes. And it matters. And it needs to be looked at. Well, headline, also, one word trigger. Greg Marshall  26:49  What the headline needs to do is trigger something. Yeah. Right. And so whether that emotion and it's triggered the emotions, whether that emotion is starting from, you know, this is outrageous, all the way to, you know, let's say they're going to go purchase that the car page, this is safe. Right? Right. So you're trying to move them on an emotional roller coaster, essentially with headlines. Yep. is communicating things in the most concise and powerful way to cause people to act? Right. And that's, that's what the headlines are all about. And I feel like some of the best ones I see. They use emotional words in them as well. That's like another tendency I tend to see is in the headline, it'll have some level of emotion. And the words, yeah, right. whether, you know, for me, some of the YouTube stuff that I see, that seems to work really well, is like using words like blasts, or, you know, things that that that talk about, like, essentially overreacting, if I were to make like one simple way of saying something that causes an overreaction, right is the type of word that tends to be, you know, in the headline and a marker that I see that uses this is the that Alex, rosy guy. On YouTube, he's really good because his head, I can tell he spends a lot of times headlines because he'll say, like, how I figured out the Starbucks business model, how maybe $100 million or something, right? Yeah. Things like that. Which say, like, that almost makes you say that's impossible. Clicked. That's impossible. This this guy's full of shit. There's no way that he did. But you know, he has done it, but he's using the headlines in a specific way. Yeah, to make you feel a certain way to click it. Alright. Blake Beus  28:40  Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So before we wrap this up, I wanted to give people a couple of practical strategies that they could start using today. And my number one tip is I don't know, if you use Google Drive, or whatever, some sort of central way. My favorite thing that I do is I screenshot headlines and thumbnails and ads, and I put them in a folder called add inspiration. So whenever I come across one, while I'm browsing Facebook, or something like that, or YouTube or whatever, I screenshot it, and I put it in there and I think, oftentimes are called swipe files or whatever. But I think nearly everybody, if they're interested in advertising and marketing, they need to be doing that. Yeah. Even if you schedule some time. So you schedule 10 or 15 minutes to go look it up, get headlines. The other thing you can do is Facebook. Facebook has their ads library. And a lot of people don't know about this, but I think it's just facebook.com/ads/library or something like that. You can Google it, to find it. But you can go in there and type in any advertisers name and it'll pull up the ads that they're currently running. Yep. So I got a huge kick out of this during the 2020 election. because you can go look at that. And if it's a political ad, they will also publish how much money they spent. Yeah. So that was interesting to see how much money the campaigns are spent because they know which one is worse. I mean, I'll tell you both campaigns spent probably a little bit over $200 million on Facebook alone. Yeah, Facebook ads alone, which Greg Marshall  30:22  is insane. And that's that's not including I saw a ton of YouTube. Blake Beus  30:27  Oh, yeah. YouTube. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So anyway, but political ads. So if you think about this, if they're spending $200 million on Facebook alone, they are clearly spending a lot of money on the nation's best copywriters for ads, right. And the NES the nation's best video people for every video so that so when when you have a presidential campaign, go, you know, in the United States, wherever you go look at those ads, because they are structured so perfectly to to rise, emotion, and then screenshot the ones you think you can adopt the principle behind what they're doing to your products or services, and put those in your ad swipe. Greg Marshall  31:10  Yeah. So I think that's a great tip as far as learning from the best because love him or hate him. Politicians, political campaigns, they are the best in the world, at coming up with direct response. I mean, you name it direct response, branding, public relations, they got the best of the best. And so that's a great way to learn. How are they positioning themselves on the products to drive a lot of emotion, because if you notice, the emotional, I guess, feeling of at least here in America, right now is nowhere near what it is around election time, no matter who's running, it doesn't matter who's running, it's always the same when it starts getting closer and closer, you can almost you know, you could feel the tension in the air. It's, I hate this guy hate that guy. And so I just feel like, it's a great tip to learn powerful headlines, how to structure them, and how to like effectively use them in your business, because you can use those same concepts in virtually any business, right create anatomy, create your, your, you know, your your base of users create, you know, a headline that really like hooks the person in and in the most concise way possible. And it should make them feel a very overreacting emotion in order for them to click it. If you get that that's when you know you're doing it right. And so when you talk about your swipe file, or your ad inspiration, you take a look at some of those if you if you notice the ones that tend to do really well, if you show them to other people or talk about what they're doing, the general response from the people you show it to is I hate that ad, or I can't stand when people do this. Yeah. Or when they market to me like this, that typically means is working. Because there's a huge emotion attached to it. Yeah, for example, Tai Lopez, right. Most people, I mean, he doesn't run as many ads anymore, like on Facebook, but like you as someone five years ago, what do you think of Tai Lopez, it was almost the same as Donald Trump. Like, oh my goodness, this guy, he's flashing this and he's doing that I can't stand it. He's a Ferrari. And, you know, vote and on and on and on. But he also is highly effective, because he's, it's almost like you have to have the guts to drive that kind of emotion. Right? Right. Because that does take you do have to have a stomach for that. And I do feel like people like Blake Beus  33:45  Tai Lopez really, is a little bit too far. It's on that last line of clickbait because he's really promising some pretty crazy stuff. But you can use those principles and shift it so that you so that it works for you. And then it becomes ethical and for raining that bad. Because yeah, I get it like, yeah, Tai Lopez, definitely, he's flashing cash all over the place and basically, very heavily implying that if you follow what he's doing, you'll, you'll be fine. You can be flashing this kind of cash to all your friends. And that's just not realistic. Now, if you're selling something, you know, like T shirts or whatever, you can use the same principles of envy of emotional poll, whatever, to to sell a t shirt, and there's less of an ethical correct, you know, dilemma there because you're not promising by this t shirt, and you're going to be flashing cash to all your friends. More like buy this t shirt and your friends are gonna laugh and think you're like the cool person or you statement or whatever. You're still drawing On that same principle, but you haven't crossed the line over into the unethical side. Yes. of clickbait. Greg Marshall  35:06  Yeah. So I think with that being said, you know, I think, work on your headlines focus heavily on improving them and drawing more emotion. There's like, if there was a hack, it would be focus all of your effort on driving the motion. Yeah. Right. So, with that being said, Blake, how do people get ahold of you? Blake Beus  35:31  I'll just go to Blake calm. I got all the contact information on there. Greg Marshall  35:34  And if you need to get ahold of me, go to Greg marshall.co. And if you want to book a call, feel free to enter your information and I'll reach out and then Blake Blake Beus  35:46  Yeah, you can reach out to me on there and we can I have a membership where I help people with social media marketing strategies. That's super fun. Oh, that membership, a lot of people love it that are in there and you can sign up on there. It's called SM three. And in that and then you can contact me on my website. So we'll talk to you guys later. All right. See you Bye.  

Wednesday Dec 15, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript         Greg Marshall  0:00  Let's talk about right before we always we almost get our topics from our pre talk, basically before we hit record, so they were talking about algorithms and bundles, and you know, just kind of do things differently. So let's kind of first start off with, let's actually talk about the bundles that you're telling him with Gary Vee. Oh, okay. Let's actually start with that. Okay. I think that that's super important, because there's a huge lesson and what he did, which was, he made an unbelievable unique, exclusive offer to accomplish a certain goal. Now go ahead and share with us. Yeah, that was Blake Beus  0:40  Yeah, so so if you don't know who Gary Vee is, you're living under a rock, but that's okay. It's fine. He's He's a social media guy. He's got a bunch of books and things like that. He's got a new book launching that I honestly don't even know the name of the book. It's like 1212 and a half something. Yeah, and has something to do with business and marketing. But I've seen a lot of news articles talking about how Gary Vee sold a million dollars worth of his books book in 24 hours, because he offered an NFT to two people that that bought the book. And if you're not familiar with an NFT, not to go to off in the deep end, but it's basically a digital asset. It could be a video or an image or something like that, and your ownership is is granted through blockchain technology. And there's several different marketplaces out there. And I don't want to dive in deep to the technicalities of that, but that's essentially what it is. But it's a digital good. And so what how he structured his offer is if you you bought 12 books, you he would give you one of his new NF T's, which I think is literally just an image. Yeah, I mean, I think I think that's all it is. NFT is you would get one of these NF T's for free and your ownership would be verified through again the blockchain. So it's like an image plus this like blockchain thing. And it's a buzz buzz phrase. So but I've seen a ton of people just gush over Gary Vee for for using a new way to use NF T's and yada yada, yada, yada, but, but for me, I don't feel like that was the magic of the offer. And I feel like the magic of the offer was, he sat down and thought, I want to sell more books. But people usually only buy one book at a time. Like how many how many times? Have you bought more than one of the exact same book Greg like never I never do. I never never I mean, maybe maybe I'll buy an extra a year later and give it to someone Greg Marshall  2:34  as a gift. Or I'll do maybe an audio that yeah, full extent. That's the full Blake Beus  2:39  extent, right. And that's what that's how most people consume books because their books, Gary Vee came up with a plan to get the same person to buy not one or two or three books, but 12 at a time, by giving them something, this digital asset that literally costs him nothing to give them. Yep. That's the magic to me. And I feel like that magic can happen to many, many, many other businesses without having to dive into the NFT space, because that can be kind of overwhelming for some people or whatever. But I thought that was fascinating. Like, yeah, I Greg Marshall  3:16  think, kind of the uniqueness of that offer is it's obviously well thought, as far as wanting to hit the number one book selling lists, right, knowing the knowing the rules of the game. Yeah, right. That's what I think he's very good at is dissecting the rules of the game, and then maximizing his opportunities within those rules, right. So number one, he's gonna sell even more books, because not only did he do pre order of 12 books at a time, right, which gets him a million copies. But those numbers will also impact his, you know, near Times bestseller list, which will place him number one, in all the categories that, you know, he's looking to be in front of which gives them even better distribution. So that selling of 12 books, is not only 12 books, but it's also premium placements. Yeah. On all of the distribution centers to buy more of his book. Yeah. And grow his following even bigger. And so it's, it's a genius move genius. And it's something that I think what Gary Vee does better than I believe anyone on the planet is, he has the guts to do things that people won't do, right, like most people will not even think about. Let me go ahead and offer 12 books. Right. So to one customer, right? Blake Beus  4:41  I mean, many, many e commerce companies when they think of bundling offers, they think of Alright, if someone's buying a t shirt or a mug or something, let's get them to buy maybe a pair of shorts or something else with it. When something like this, Gary said, what kind of get him to buy 12 Yep, right 12 have the exact same thing. Is that Is that doable? And now I'm thinking, Okay, so for any e commerce clients or whatever, I'm thinking, why why have we been thinking so small? Why not think way bigger? And say, Yes, you bought this t shirt for 25 bucks. Do you want 10 of them? Greg Marshall  5:18  Yeah, why not? Blake Beus  5:19  Why not is no rule 10 of them. And And here's 10 of them. And you get this free thing. I think the other magic was, the only way to get that free thing was to buy the bundle as well. You couldn't buy the NFT in the marketplace or anything. You had to get 12 books Greg Marshall  5:41  and to get it not only that, it's not only a unique offer, but by doing it that way, it also creates urgency. Yeah. Because then, you know, this is a scarce deal. And it could be going away soon. Yeah, therefore, I must do it now, which is every marketers goal and dream is to get you to buy now. Right? Not next week. Right buy right now. And so it's a great way to position an offer to be extremely impulsive. And to create a buying frenzy. Yeah. Is to make that offer that unique so that I'm happy brought that up this morning about because that that can you can learn a lot from that. Right and your own business. Yeah. Well, Blake Beus  6:22  and I think I think I mean, let's talk about some specifics on how a non Gary Vee business because let's be honest, like, yeah, I don't think Gary Vee listens to this podcast. But for your for your business. You know, you you the listener? Well, there's lots of different ways you could apply this, Greg, Greg, what are you thinking like for maybe an E commerce business? And maybe even a service base? Sure. digital product business? What do you think? Greg Marshall  6:48  I mean, I think you could probably just pack is like, whatever it is that you have it? I mean, it kind of makes sense, right? I mean, I think of my own purchases, there is a specific type of shirt that I have that I actually do own 12 or 13. No, yeah. And if if and it's it's actually a workout shirt. It's like a very specific kind that I like, it's the same color is the same people probably think I'm wearing the same shirt every day. But it's if this company were to offer me buy 15 shirts for this price. And it's the same exact shirt. I would do it. Yeah. Right. And so I can even give you like Blake Beus  7:24  a since it's a workout shirt that can give you something for free. Yeah. As part of that that's related to working out. Yeah. And whatever that whether that's I don't know, a headband, or hat or some shorts. Yeah. Or socks or something. Or maybe even something crazy. Like some earbuds. Yeah. Greg Marshall  7:43  I mean, but that would first that would solidify the deal. Yeah, that would be like, I have to buy it now. Yeah. But that's what I'm thinking like, you know, if you got like E commerce, business, e commerce stores sell T shirts, or maybe jewelry products. I'm like that, really thinking about? Well, how could you get? How could you create the messaging that the person when they go to purchase? Feels like, I feel so strongly about this. I like this product so much that not only will I buy one for myself, but even possibly for all my friends and family. Yeah, right. That's a great way to package it. And there's no better way to authority interested in the product, then they might be interested in more of that same product. Yeah. Blake Beus  8:24  Right. Yeah. And I think I think the incentive needs to be unique, probably even something that the buyer has not heard of. Yeah. Because everybody's heard of, you know, free shipping on orders, or by one guy, like everybody's heard of those things. And so you want it to be something that's, that's different and unique. Greg Marshall  8:44  I actually, you know, what, sorry to cut you off. Because I don't want to forget, when you ask this, I actually did give a client an idea of this, he sells. He has a hip hop community. Okay. And most of the hip hop music, not all but most of it is like retro, right? Like 90s, who, like kind of the older rappers and that culture. And he sells a he sells a book. Right? And his goal is he wants to get this book out to as many viewers so I told him to create a better offer. Instead of just selling the book say if you purchase the book, you can actually he does a zoom podcast, okay with the with the actual artists. I said, for the first 50 people who buy or whatever you position where if you get the book, you get access to q&a directly with the hip hop artists themselves. Right? And I said make that the bonus. And it'll make people buy more of the books and it's worth and that's just a kind of a similar angle of like purchase something that is available and people will see before a billion times but offer something else that's unique that they haven't been offered before to increase conversion. Blake Beus  10:00  Yeah, now now make that an offer to buy 10 of his book exam. But Greg Marshall  10:03  I didn't even think of that. Yes. Next level Blake Beus  10:06  that is next level. Yeah, I think that's amazing. I should actually send that client the link, you have yet to say, try to mimic this. Yeah. 10. So like, 10 of those, and then you get direct q&a, we have a hip hop artist, because that is a cool, that's a really unique offer. And that's definitely gonna resonate with people. Greg Marshall  10:22  Yeah, I think, you know, and we, and before this, we were even talking about, you know, you got to have powerful offers. But another thing to think about just to do things a lot differently, then your competitors, right, that's the one way that you can learn from that is to try to do everything differently than competitors. And we were talking about algorithms and one of the gentlemen that, you know, I think he has very good information. I think I don't want to mess his name up, but Dipesh a Deepesh. Yes. deepish men, men baleia men deal. Yeah, I think he's, he's great. Super good. super intelligent, always has great insight. And he had mentioned something on a video that he ran an ad towards to me. So hopefully, if he does hear this, your ad is working. That sent from Facebook directly to a YouTube link, which I always thought Facebook would squeeze that even if you're paying for it, I always thought they would almost like give you a negative relevance score because of that. But I watched the content that he had in the video, and he talked a lot about Blake Beus  11:26  just just for clarification, why why would you think that Facebook would give you negative, like a negative relevance going over relevant score, if you're linking off to a YouTube video in a Facebook app, Greg Marshall  11:37  specifically the YouTube just because YouTube's their competitor, gotcha. And so that's why I would think they, you know, they don't want you to go there. But obviously, it must be working because the ad was served too. And in the video, he talked a lot about positive signals, and optimizing for ads and the importance of doing things more than just like optimizing for purchase. And sending more positive signals inside of your ad account to get actually better results. And it's a different way of thinking which I was telling you. Before we hit record, I've accidentally done some of these things just as like thoughts of like, why can't you optimize in this fashion, where it would actually help your conversions. And in my past experience it has, but I've never been able to actually explain why I just saw that it worked. So I would just keep doing it. But he actually went more in depth with you know that it's it's okay to actually optimize for Add to Cart versus purchases, if you don't get a lot of purchases. Yeah. Because that actually, that conversion rate information is getting fed back into your ad account. And that could have a less, it could be less impactful than if you were doing Add to Cart. And I always had the I guess false assumption that if you're not optimizing for purchase, and just only add to carts, that somehow you're targeting, like a less quality user. But you you mentioned something that I really liked to say. But that would be we would be assuming that we're giving the algorithm too much credit. Right, Blake Beus  13:16  right. And I feel like a lot of people do do that. I know I've kind of fallen in that camp. And a lot of it definitely has, I even think a lot of gurus out there people teaching others how to run Facebook ads fall into this camp of the algorithm being super smart. It's, it's great, but it's not all intelligent. It's not it can't predict who's going to purchase it can guess, who might be likely to purchase. But one of the things that people bump into is they say, Okay, well, if I'm targeting add to carts, I'll get I'll get a ton of add to carts and no purchases. But here. And that comes from place of assuming that the algorithm knows who are the people that will just add to cart? And who are the people that will just purchase. But the thing is, is those groups are the same people because anybody that purchases needs to add to cart first. Yeah. They have to add to view content. And all of those things. And so when we take a step back and look at how algorithms actually work, you you they're not smart, they're not these intelligent, we say AI they are not artificial intelligence. The correct term is machine learning and you have to train the machine to do what you want it to do. And these are really really sophisticated machine learning things. But But where I started going when you started talking with me about this and when you were saying that Depeche was talking about positive signals. I think that kind of really resonated with me and got me thinking about okay, so, positive signals are identity buyers that you send into the ad platform, the machine learning platform to train it saying these are the types of people that I want. So anybody that view content, they have to view content before they can add to cart. Yep. So I want I definitely want these people, this is a positive signal. When I send, hey, you know, the objective is Add to Cart, these are the people adding to cart, that's another positive signal. I'm training the algorithm. And Facebook knows that view content is a lower priority than add to cart, they know that already. You just need to get the data in there, the types of people and then the purchases when you're sending the purchase data back into the Facebook algorithm or any ad platform algorithm. That's another positive signal. So you're sending positive signals at each layer of the conversion funnel. Yep, yep. And it's not surprising that you're seeing better results that way. Greg Marshall  15:48  Well, I've seen so a couple of examples that I have. And this typically tends to work really well with lower budget clients, meaning like, they don't have a ton of money to spend, right, somewhere around the 20 to $50 day range. And what I found is, there was a, in fact, this happened a couple times, where someone's only spending 2030 bucks a day, you would optimize for purchase, the purchases don't come in, as well as if you optimize for add to carts, you actually I was actually getting more volume, and less cost. And the cost of purchase was lower on the Add to Cart than the actual going direct to purchase. Which that started to make me wonder, like, interesting. So I'm going after, quote, unquote, less valuable part of the funnel Add to Cart. And this even happened with view content. I showed I think I showed you my ad account one time, one of my customers where I showed you, I'm actually optimizing for view content, but my costs per purchase are actually lower. Yes. And the purchase was right. And my theory is, well, it's more important to get more data into the account, because I found that if you do optimize for like, let's say purchase, it seems like it does tend to lower your view content, add to carts, and other kind of top end funnel data. Yeah. Which I believe slows down learning of your ad account. Yeah, right. And some of the best ad accounts that I've grown. I actually started with, which is, which is kind of funny, because it's not, I don't know if it's ever been recommended this way. But I started with view content first, and then move to the next objective Add to Cart. After we got 1000s of view content. And then built up the add to cart and Informatica cart, then moved to purchase. Yeah. And it seemed like the results are way more stable. Yeah. And you still get purchase off view content or add to cart? Blake Beus  17:52  Did you leave the view content that add cart objective? campaigns running? Greg Marshall  17:57  I did not. You did? No. And that's actually something you brought up earlier this morning, where I was like, I wonder if you were to actually just do all of them in a row, if that actually would improve and keep them all running. Keep them all running. Yeah, like when you were talking about this? And I'd like I did, like you said, I Blake Beus  18:13  did bring it up before we hopped on here. I've never actually done that. And I'm definitely gonna go try that. Well, you know, see what's gonna happen. Because if, if that does work, I can see that being a much more reliable and stable way to get results. Because one of the problems everybody runs into with their ad accounts is you, you have a week where you're just crushing it. I mean, you, you and I were together. When I was thinking of one week that you're probably talking, I had one week where we're doing $5,000 a day on my digital product. And I was like, This is amazing. Yeah. And then the results completely fizzled out into a bunch of different things. But, um, everybody has physical problems. Everybody has Phil's a problem. But I wonder if you run an ad campaign with the objective of you content, a campaign with the objective of an decarnin campaign with the objective of purchase? It would make sense because you're giving all these positive signals, it would make sense that you're going to have much more stable results long term because having a really great week is fantastic. But having a good we're having a good week for 52 weeks in a row is way better Greg Marshall  19:23  is way better. Yeah. And versus a great week, and then a non existent we finally got a great, it puts you on the bipolar rollercoaster ride away. Oh, man. But I think here's something that you just reminded. You asked me if I had done that simultaneously, what there there was, you can't do this anymore. Which which makes me think there is merit to this, okay. Where I was running a campaign for a specific customer and they they spend about, I don't know, $10,000 a month, and we were running a conversion campaign. We started it at view content, kept the cat everything the same. And then after we built up a whole bunch of data, then I switched the delivery optimization and the conversion event to that add to cart. And then I switched it again to purchase, then I didn't even Blake Beus  20:20  like launch new campaigns, You're just swapping Yep, the objective. Greg Marshall  20:24  Now you can't do that anymore. They changed it. But when I did it that way, everything stayed 100% stable. It never like we didn't have any dips. And so then the final one was the optimization for value, because ad learned from the ad set. And we've been running that for six months with no changes, no change the ad, no change that set nothing. The only change is where we were changing the conversion events, and the delivery optimizations within the ad set that whole time. Interesting. So my theory was, well, if I can get this ad set to just build so much data, that it would be learning just from all the past data, regardless of if I change the conversion event. And it says you're going back into learning limited, because it's not really because it still has all the previous day that that I built into it. Which makes me think there's merit to maybe if you just have those types of campaigns running at all times, the way you said, to view content, add to cart, initiate checkouts purchase, that it would serve that same purpose of building up data and continuously feeding more into it. Blake Beus  21:35  Yeah, and I think so. So the old school way of doing this would would be to have like a top of funnel ad and then you have an Add to Cart objective ad ad campaign and you exclude people that are you do a lot of these exclusions. I correct me if I'm wrong, but in my experience recently, having these different buckets where you're including and excluding people has not worked as well. No, I mean, it's actually were terribly terrible. So what I'm thinking is you run these ads in parallel, and you just let them overlap. Yep. And see what happens. Greg Marshall  22:11  Yeah, so I think, I think what, what, based off this episode, what you should take from it is we're really trying to feed as much data as possible Blake Beus  22:23  in a good positive indicator. Yeah, positive indicators like positive he calls them signals, you patch that yes, signals, positive signals, Greg Marshall  22:31  but you want to you want to, like send those good signals, like, oh, yeah, they did this good thing, they had a constant thing. And you're like educating almost like your own computer. You're teaching it, how to get the results that you want. But the phrase I said before we had record was viewing it almost like nutrition and a healthy body. Were like purchases are like protein. But you can't just only live off protein, like you have to have other nutrients like vitamins and minerals, and carbohydrates and fats. And so I'm viewing the rest of those conversion events as you still need to protein carbohydrates, fats, vitamins, and you need to feed that into the body, in order for you to get the best results possible. Blake Beus  23:21  Part of a healthy, healthy, balanced diet. I've heard people say, I've heard people say, you've got to feed the machine talk about the algorithm. And this, this is like a different way of visually, yeah, which I really love your it's like, literally, I want to feed the machine good, healthy. Yeah, I want to just a vegan strong, Greg Marshall  23:36  I don't want it to be a competition cutting face with only eating protein. So this, this has been interesting for me to have captured that information off, you know, off that piece of confidence. So with that being said, I think our next episode, we can go into more depth on this kind of case study. In fact, there's a couple clients that I know would be interested in being involved in testing this this area out. So maybe what we do is follow up with some actual data or at least follow up and with some of your clients or maybe when your products. Let's run a week's worth of different objectives. Yeah. And then let's come back and talk about our learnings and see see what happened. Blake Beus  24:25  Absolutely, absolutely. I want to this whole conversation reminded me of something we didn't talk about before. And it got me thinking about positive signals. So uh, want to get your thoughts on this. So I have a subscription product where people are billed every month, month after month. I'm gathering that the purchase data into my own internal systems. But I realized I'm not actually sending the lifetime value purchases back into my ad platforms, which I can Yes, I wonder if sending that back into Those recurring monthly purchases back into the ads platform saying, hey, this this person purchased again. Yeah, they purchased again, they purchased again, I wonder if that would have an overtime positive impact on the quality of the targeting that Facebook does. And Google does behind the scene. Yeah. What do you think Greg Marshall  25:18  about I think 100%. And in fact, that one client, I tell you spent attend, I also left that part out, they do feedback, data, offline, uploaded data back into their ad account, so that they can constantly see what's actually coming in. And I think it makes a huge impact. And in fact, some of the some of the accounts that I have found that done the best, which is this is actually kind of a unique finding, right now have followed that procedure, continuously feeding back into their ad accounts, even the offline conversions. Right. And even if like Facebook isn't, you know, deduplicating perfectly my mind, I don't really care. Because it they're still getting the data. Yeah. So it's like, I mean, I'm looking at just my revenue, right? Like, did the money come in? Through my store? That's what I'm based off of. But if Facebook can get data that's 95% accurate, so that they can help my targeting? I'd much rather do that. Yeah. Blake Beus  26:19  And and I think that's a strategy that's going to lead to better results. Long term. And when I'm talking long term, I'm not talking like three months. Yeah, I'm talking years. Yes, Facebook ads as a as a platform is not going away. Google ads as a platform is not going away, they're only going to get better. And MT better is maybe not the right word. They're going to get bigger over time there. Yeah, there's there's going to be different channels and avenues and everything. And if you have a good ad account with years, literally years worth of positive signal data, I can't imagine that you're going to be better off every time there's a new change or a new regulation or something that comes through, you're probably going to not have a dip or a hiccup in your ads as much if you have this long term of production Greg Marshall  27:08  data. So So yeah, so I think we should we should circle back with some testing. In fact, I'm going to I'm going to do a call with a client right now, that I believe will be very interested in testing this out because she's very open minded and looking for ways to always improve. Yeah, so she would be a great account to test. Yeah, so absolutely. Blake Beus  27:34  All right. Well, you know, everybody go try this out for yourself. Yes. Know what you think. Greg Marshall  27:39  Yes. And until next week, you guys have a good one and talk to you guys later. All right.  

Monday Dec 13, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript Greg Marshall  0:00  All right, so we just, you know, talk before we put the hit record by a lot about a topic that I think is is more important than most businesses, I believe think, which is, when you're running ads or your marketing, no matter what you're doing, you're sending them to some level of a website. Yeah. But no one's ever really thinking about well, when they get to the website. Yeah, it should be a good experience. So one of the questions that I was asking before we hit record was, what is what's the most important thing when it comes to user experience? And tell me a little bit about why we should be paying attention to this? Blake Beus  0:44  Yeah. Well, I mean, we literally talked about this for over an hour I hitting the record button, we should we should hit record earlier. But yeah, a lot of a lot of people don't think about page speed. I mean, I mean, they think about it a little bit, but they don't think about it. In the terms that having a slower Page Speed actually cost you money, especially if you're running ads, or you're putting efforts into to to writing content for SEO purposes or whatever. PageSpeed is an extremely important thing. Greg Marshall  1:16  And let me ask you this, it says you said, yeah, if you're running ads, yeah, because this is something that I think, would really be helpful to know. Let's do a comparison. Okay, so let's say one website, loads significantly faster than another, right? Yeah. And that, but every other variable is the same. They're both running the same exact ads, with the same wording everything creatives, the offer, everything's the same except one page is loading significantly faster. What would you predict is the difference in revenue between one versus the other, if everything else was the same, except one was way faster than the other? Blake Beus  2:01  I mean, I've seen, I've seen some campaigns and things that I've worked on, see a 20 to 50% lift in conversions, just by increasing the Page Speed, which, which is kind of this positive feedback loop if you want to think about right, so. So I'm Sam running, running some ads. One of the indicators that Google or Facebook is looking for is how many conversions that ad is getting, by getting more conversions than Google and Facebook will say to themselves, algorithmically, hey, that's a good app, it's working for people and people seem to really like it. Let's give more high quality traffic to that ad. And it makes you more competitive over other ads, or whatever. So like I said, 30 50%. And if your page speed is really, really, really slow, you're you're just not going to get any conversions, because people are going to think your site is broken, which effectively it is if your page is slow. And so you know, as far as how big of a lift we're going to get if we speed up a page, it could be massive, if you're not getting any conversions, because it's that slow. Got it. Greg Marshall  3:11  So and even if you are getting conversions, if it's a really slow website, you can get a 50% lift. So if you're getting let's say you're getting 10 conversions, for every 1000 people that go to your site, then if you can get a 50% lift, and you will get what 15 Yeah, so if if you're getting five more conversions, and let's say your average order value is you know, 50 bucks, you would be getting an additional $250 That you're essentially missing out on Yeah, because your site is slower. Absolutely. And if that's every day, yeah, then that starts to compound. So then you're talking about 1000s of the house dollars per month. Blake Beus  3:53  And like I said, it's a it's a positive feedback loop. Because then Google, even if it's just search engine optimization, or SEO, or whatever, Google and Facebook, or they know, you've got their tracking codes on their site, they know what's going on. And they say, Well, this site's doing really well. There's the the page pages are loading fast, people seem to really enjoy the content and they're converting, so let's make that let's bump them up in the search engine list. Let's let's put them you know, from from ninth place to second place, and then you get more high quality traffic, right because from the top three results down the the drop off of click through rates in search engines is huge. Yes, massive. And it's the same thing with ads. If you're if you're running search ads on Google, you know, you're you're above those top three results if if you're competing properly against the other people. Many people want to compete with budget, but they need to realize that another currency they can compete with is PageSpeed. You can actually be in the number one spot and be paying less for that traffic and less per click than the number two spot if your page is running fast. Greg Marshall  4:56  So one of the things we did some analysis on a couple pages before we hit the Record mode. We, you know, there was some valuable things that you mentioned, it looks like to me, correct me if I'm wrong looks like the biggest thing that slows the website speed down, is the size of the picture? Or having video? Blake Beus  5:18  Yes, yeah, there's the top three, I would say the size of the picture, video. And tracking scripts like Facebook, pixel, Google tracking scripts, or whatever. And so you, there's always this trade off, right? Like, you need to have the tools in place you need for marketing. But it's, it's like you said earlier, if we wanted a page that would have a fastest page load speed, perfect scores across the board, we would have a page with, you know, maybe a sentence of text and nothing else on there. And we will get perfect scores on all these tracking tools. But you're not going to convert with that, you've got to have this push and pull. You need things like tracking scripts and stuff. But you need to not go nuts with the tracking scripts. A lot of people especially if your site's been around for a long time, you're tracking scripts, you could have all of these old scripts from way back when when you try to marketing strategy and installed this script. And maybe it's maybe something like ad roll memory. That was that was dead. Yeah, longtime they're still around, but but you might have this ad roll script on your page, you're not doing anything with it, just pull that off, right? image sizes, you can reduce the image sizes and, and a lot of times people will snap a picture with their phone and upload it to the site and not realize that your phone these high quality cameras on your phone, they take pictures that are 13 megabytes large, which is huge for a webpage. And you just don't don't need that. So you need to compress them down or resize them or crop them down to the right size. And then as far as, as video goes, if you're a technical person, you can actually write some code so that after the whole page loads, then you load the video. Or you've probably seen some people, when you go to their site, they have a video, you click on it takes a second, then the video loads, and then you got to click on it again, actually hit play. Yes, that's a speedy strategy out there delaying the load of the video until you actually show interest. And so there's these strategies. But the easiest one for most people that are non technical is images. Got it, look at your image sizes. Use use use the tool to compress it squish dot app, squish that as a web web app that I use a lot for my clients super easy to compress images and things that way Greg Marshall  7:31  exclu style app? And what about like, you know, we also talked about the Google is correct and run Google amp? Yo, is there any reason to try to utilize this as part of a strategy? And in my mind, I'm thinking, Could an e commerce Store? You know, I've got a lot of e commerce Store clients. Could they use something like this? And I remember you said there's a trade off of like, you can't track as well, using pixels. But if you use Google ads or Google Analytics, explain that a little bit. Yeah. So Blake Beus  8:06  um, let me give people a little bit of a rundown on what amp is. So So Google amp is a service that Google offers for free. And what it does is it scrapes your page, makes a optimized version of it, and then hosts it on Google's actual servers. And then when you search to it from Google, you know, webs the search engine, it will load that version of your page instead of your site, because it will load way, way, way faster. But as part of optimizing it, they, they will sometimes strip out scripts, unless you write them in a way to tell Google amp, hey, we need this. We need this JavaScript in there. So oftentimes, I mean, when it first launched, the Facebook pixel didn't work. I think that's been fixed. And they feel that over Google Analytics will work because it's a Google property. But some of you've written any custom scripts or things like that, they may not load because you're loading this optimized version. So there is a little bit of a trade off there. The but the pages load insanely fast. And you do rise up in search engine results if you do turn on amp. So there's there's this kind of give and take there. If you're if you're running some, some custom code to split test something on your page, or you have some custom interactivity on your site or something like that, that may not work on Google Apps. So you just got to know Greg Marshall  9:35  what about Okay, so let me ask you this, because this is something that what if you don't really, what if you don't care as much from the pixel inside. You just want to be able to make sure you're ranking better and that people have a better user experience. Granted that you're tracking all your other metrics on the back end, right? then would it be beneficial to use it? Blake Beus  10:03  Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's like anything you can test it out. Got it? You can turn it on and try it. Greg Marshall  10:10  So you can't turn it on. And ah, yeah. Okay, so I wasn't sure I didn't know if he had like, completely go all in like making an app. So now Blake Beus  10:21  you can turn it off. But yeah, you can test it out and see, right? Well, one of the things a lot of people have run into is, this is seems like less of a model now than it used to be. But it still is a model. But where people have a blog that we get lots and lots and lots of hits, and one of the ways they would monetize that blog is they would have ads on the blog, right, and they will get paid by people clicking on those ads. If you expand beyond Google Display Network, which honestly for a content creator in this way, doesn't pay out that great and you expand all of these other ad networks that exist out there that you've probably never heard of. Yep, that pay out better. Those ads may not run got it Unknown Speaker  11:05  for for you actually experienced that. Yeah. Yeah. And so you, Blake Beus  11:09  you have to know, the ins and outs. And you have to understand and so if your business model relies on that type of monetization strategy, amps not not going to work for you got it. Got it. Greg Marshall  11:23  Right. And that's maybe why initially, the company I was working with those client, they were running into the issue where they're trying to use the new app. But the ads, the ads at the top, didn't work. Yeah. And they're using another not Google Display Network, but another ad network to monetize it. And so with, so what about this does it have? Can you still use Google Analytics and Google and yeah, absolutely. So that Google fire shoot Unknown Speaker  11:52  themselves with the flow? Okay. Greg Marshall  11:54  And, you know, really that question, is, there's two reasons why I'm asking that question. It's like, in my mind, I have it as what can an E commerce client use? And then what can a service based business use? Right? And so far, it sounds like a service based business could really benefit from using app if it does help you speed things up? Yeah, Blake Beus  12:18  definitely. And I mean, you really just, you and I talked about this all the time, you need to think about your monetization model. If if you have a service that pays out big Yeah, right, then you can be a lot more loosey goosey, and not have your stuff all together. Because if every time you get a client that is $50,000 revenue, then it doesn't matter. If you aren't optimized, and you have to spend $1,000 to get that client, it doesn't matter because you still made $49,000 As your ad spend, right. But if you're doing something like e commerce or whatever, then your margins are a lot tighter, because your product costs you have shipping costs and everything like that. But with E commerce, I mean, Google, Google and Facebook, they both love ecommerce companies. And Google has Google Shopping. Facebook has its its shopping platform as well, we can both you can import products into both of those and everything. So, and I don't have experience with this specifically myself. But I highly doubt using amp for an E commerce site is going to have any negative impacts. I would bet that they've got that figured out by now, amps been around for five or six years now. So it's not new. Greg Marshall  13:27  It's not new news. Just it's just another way because in my mind, I think from a strategy standpoint, most people that are trying to be found to be found at Google. Yeah. So it makes the most sense to use all of their products. Yep. Because they're probably going to reward you. I know, they probably wouldn't say that. But they're probably gonna reward you for using everything they own. Right? Yeah. Blake Beus  13:50  Yeah, I think, in my opinion, you're totally right. But also you shouldn't have all your eggs in one basket, right? Yep. And Google's Google is actually pretty good about, you know, if you have all your eggs in their basket, they they're pretty good enough. accidentally or intentionally screwing you over Facebook on the other hand, yeah, I mean, I would I would if you're using all their products using Google Shopping, you're using Google amp you're using analytics. You're using Google ads. There's definitely some synergy there. But I would also have products listed in other places got you maybe list your your ecommerce products in in you know Amazon or Newegg where people don't know you can list product, your own products on Newegg. You can list them on eBay, you can list them, you know, on Facebook, all of these different places and I would have presence, you know, as many places as is feasible. Yep. Because there's obviously some complexities when you have coxless got it all places. Greg Marshall  14:49  So and it sounds like for the biggest thing that you want is to pay attention to the speed. Right the speed is probably the key He outside of like laying your side? Yeah, the speed is really what's going to impact the user experience. Yeah, if you, because I'm Blake Beus  15:11  technical, and you, you probably approach this problem differently, because you come at it from an advertising marketing side. But whenever I'm helping a client with ads, and we see a significant dip in performance, my first thought is, did the PageSpeed get affected somehow? Yeah, it's someone upload a massive image. Yes, accidentally, and drive our PageSpeed down. And that's the first thing I always look at. You probably I mean, I'm curious, what do you look at? When you see a dip in performance? What's the first thing you look at? Greg Marshall  15:38  I mean, because I've been around you for so long. It really is that, isn't it? Yeah. It really is, like, Oh, something must have changed on here. First, is it speed? And then second? Did we change the words on the offer, right, because this happens often with clients will be actually running ads, and then they'll change what the landing page says, without letting me know. And then all of a sudden, it'll be like, the page converting to 3% 2.5 or whatever. And then all of a sudden is at point five, eight. And you're like, what just happened? It just like, completely dip, then I'll say the first thing is, did you change anything on the page? Did you add anything just to track them? So yeah, I mean, because like I said, because I've been around you? I think about the speed. Yeah. But probably before that, it would be did you change anything on that wire? Right? What have you had to have changed the experience on the phone? Yeah. So that's, that's my thought. But I just never really, I think the regular business owner is not thinking about know any of this. So I think we just assume all websites are equal like it no matter where you build it, no matter what you put on there, they all operate exactly the same. And then when we take a deeper dive into clients, websites, we always find, oh, this link is broken. No, this is not loading fast. There's typically issues that are hurting them. And one thing that I do know as an advertiser, and this is why I started to pay attention to it more. When I would run ads, I've seen clients almost do that experiment I treasure where they're targeting the same audiences. Ad Copies almost exactly the same. The Crazy Ones Exactly. But one person's ad costs is literally 567 times more than the others. Yeah. And it's because of the load speed. Yeah. It's at least that was my assumption, because that was the only thing different Yeah, about what was going on. Blake Beus  17:43  Yeah, it's, it's a big deal. And honestly, it's one of those things that you can forget about, right? You can hear this podcast and think, Okay, I'm gonna keep an eye on this. And then six months down the road, you get you're busy with other things, and you didn't realize it's, it's, it's like that mate, you need to have that constant maintenance, constant touch ups, like changing the oil in your in your car, right? You need to maybe throw something in your calendar, once, once a quarter or something like that, if not more, for my clients, I look at it once a week, usually, and just to do some quick tests, but throw for reminder to just look at it, check on those things and make sure that nothing happens because websites are these living, breathing, growing, things are constantly changing, and they need to be maintained. But But first, yeah, but for some reason why people think well, let's set it and forget why I made the website, I built the website. And that comes across in how people pay for websites, too. Oftentimes, they're like, well, I need a website built. So who's gonna build me a website for the give me the best value, you know, the best website for the lowest cost, lowest cost? And then once it's done, they pay for it and think, okay, my website's done, tick that markup. But it's that's not how that's not how they work. They constantly need to be updated. You constantly just swap out content. And it's easy to let websites get stale at night, that happens to me on my own website. Greg Marshall  18:56  I know, I know, for sure it's happened to me. And because getting more educated about this, I don't think I would have even bothered to look into learning about this. Until I noticed that some ad accounts were getting dinged for this. Yeah, I was like, wow, that. So this means more now than just like, Yeah, well, if it's slow, who cares? My Products good enough to those waiting for? But it's like, you know, Facebook and Google are going to charge you more. Yeah, for a bad experience, which now that gets my attention. Blake Beus  19:27  Cost you actual money? Yeah, actual money. So I mean, I think we can dive into some of the specifics. Like what so so you're on board, you want your website to be fast, and what can you do to help identify it? So let me give you two different tools you can you can dive into the first one is called Google PageSpeed Insights, just do a Google search for that. And it will it will pull up a tool you can put in a URL you can put in for a specific page, and it will go through and give you two different scores based on the mobile experience. And based on the desktop experience. Now your desktop experience will almost always be higher, but it'll be useful. From zero to 100. Any, you want to try to do your best to make your score as high as possible, while still having the things on your page that you need? What's an acceptable business? Right? Greg Marshall  20:11  Well acceptable? Like, I know there's a trade off, what would you say? 70? Blake Beus  20:17  I would say 70 Is is, you're in the top, maybe 5%, you have a 70, on mobile or better. Greg Marshall  20:27  So there'll be at least a number to kind of shoot for that. Yeah. Is it impossible to get 100? Yeah. So it is possible? I don't even I would think there would be no way you can get 100. So it is possible, it is possible, Blake Beus  20:39  it is possible. And how you do that is you have a page that's mobile responsive, you have a page that is mostly text, all the images on your page are very optimized. You maybe have Google Analytics, and that's it. No other tracking codes. And you don't have any videos. Got it? Yeah, I mean, you could you could, you could get up the end. And you probably need to be on a fast server. So you could do all of those things. But if you're hosting somewhere that you don't own the server, you still might not get 100, because then you might need to, you know, do that extra layer. And for me, that's what I know how to do. But most people don't know how to do that. So it's reasonable that you don't worry about Yeah, Greg Marshall  21:18  you know, one thing that I'm learning, and I'm sorry, did you have a second? Yes, yes, I'm sorry, GT metrics. Blake Beus  21:23  And you can just go to GT metrics with an X at the end.com. And you can put your URL in there, they'll give you different speeds or whatever. But they'll also tell you if you have large images, if you have a lot of scripts on your page, and you can just kind of tick those things off the list and keep testing to try to get your grade up. Greg Marshall  21:45  Got it. And you know, one thing that I've learned from because I consider myself a learn, I'd like to learn from people who know things that I don't know, right, yeah. And one thing that I'm learning from, you know, working in the E commerce space, which I did not start off, and by the way, and then spending more time with you, there's two growth strategies that people do not think about. So an example would be in the marketing space, increasing lifetime value of a customer, you know, trying to lower your cost per acquisition, repeat buyers, all that those are growth strategies and of itself. But then when you talk about there's two strategies that I think almost no one talks about, right, which is website speed. Is it gross? Right? It is, right? Yeah. And the second one that almost no one talks about is inventory. Meaning if you can get the inventory cheaper, faster and more readily available, you could beat your competition, with just those two sides alone, better inventory and faster website. And those are two things that I would never in a million years guess could be a competitive advantage. Yeah, that really, you can speed up the growth of your business by focusing on the counterintuitive. Hmm. Blake Beus  23:05  That's a good point. I'm glad you um, you know, I'm glad you brought that up. Because it is true. There's these girls strategies that happen behind the scenes just making you more operationally efficient. Yep. And and, you know, with inventory that makes sense. One of my clients runs a software that helps people list, ecommerce on Amazon, Newegg, all of these different places, right. And that's where I kind of started learning about a little, a little bit of this stuff. But you know, having that additional operational efficiency isn't something that people think about, but it does make you more competitive. Yep. And is the growth strategy in and of itself? Greg Marshall  23:41  Yeah. And I think that's, it's, it's remarkable, because I was thinking about that, recently, where I just thought, you know, there's so much talk about what you call, you know, the top and top line front end optimizations. And there's very little being talked about, like, some of the companies there's there's one company in general that Alize t shirt companies follow that they're always trying to figure out, how are they making as much money as are making? And the more I started looking into it, the more I realize is because it's not the front end strategy. Yeah. Right. They have a competitive advantage. I'm not gonna say it because people were there. But they have a competitive advantage on the operational side. Yeah, that allows them to do what they do. The other stores can't Yeah, and they're not going to share that. But they're going to tell you, the you're going to try to follow them, but you're following them only partially. Yeah. When it comes to the strategy, and you're not seeing the bot, which everything they're doing is legit. It's a super good strategy. Yeah. But it's just one of those things where it's a strategy just like speeding up your website, and inventory that you don't think of off the top of your head that that could be a growth strategy to take your business to the next level. So all this stuff, you know, on the back end, operationally, I think there should be a heavier emphasis on the website stuff. And so all these tips that you're given, I think, if you're serious about growing your business, and you want to take things to the next level, you should be following all these tips that Blake is sharing. Because this could be the difference between you getting the business or your competition. And if you're in a competitive space, this you really have to pay attention just because it is, you know, it's almost like the Olympics, right? The people who are winning are not 510 seconds faster. The second third place, they're they're like, a 10th of a second faster, and sometimes less than that. Yeah. So it's like, it's that little bit that allows you to win. So if you're in a highly competitive industry, these are things that you haven't pay attention to. Blake Beus  25:56  Yeah, absolutely. And it's, I mean, this just goes back to what we talked about time and time and time again, but it's, it's holistic marketing, basically, looking at the whole, the whole of everything, the all inclusive part, your your messaging, your ad strategy, your site speed, all of these things, looking at all of those channels, and making sure everything's lined up or, you know, properly aligned in that. And honestly, it's, it's hard. It's not, it's not easy. There's a reason, like people reach out to you and mean, Greg, because it's, if you're a business owner, or whatever, you're executing all of these other strategies, delivering for your existing clients, making sure they're happy. But now you've got to learn how to make websites faster. Yeah, right. Like that's not, that's not in the realm and that's fine. That's part of delegation and outsourcing or whatever. Border strategy, it's part of the strategy is part of your competitiveness. Greg Marshall  26:45  So you have to constantly adapt. And what worked yesterday may not work tomorrow, or today. And that's kind of the beauty of all is you have to just constantly looking for ways to get better. And at least for me, I tend to get bored easy, which is why this is a great energy for me, because I know they're never gonna make it easy for me. Blake Beus  27:11  Well, well, Greg, let's let's, let's wrap this up. How can people reach out to you? Oh, great, Greg Marshall  27:16  Marshall. CO and if you want to book a strategy session, just go on there and it's your information. And what about you? Blake Beus  27:23  Just Blake peace calm and you can just reach out to me there, see what my current offers are there. Greg Marshall  27:30  So while this is a very useful pockets, I think I think people will get a lot of value from it. So I guess, until next time, we'll talk to you guys later. Blake Beus  27:39  Okay, we'll catch you later. Bye.    

Wednesday Dec 08, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript   Blake Beus  0:01  Are Greg, you want to talk about counterintuitive marketing? What do you mean by that? Greg Marshall  0:06  counter to of marketing is essentially doing things that maybe you feel like is the opposite of what everyone else is doing? Or maybe you think it wouldn't work, but it does work. Okay. One of my first examples of this was early on, when Facebook ads first started, I was in the fitness gym industry. And you know, this sounds absolutely crazy now, but back then no one in the gym and fitness, particularly brick and mortar gyms would even come close to doing social media marketing, Facebook ads, or even just posting on social, because they just thought, you know, it was either dumb, or waste of time, or it was just too early, and no one else was doing it, which is the number one reason why I wanted to do it. Because no one else was doing right. If there's no one there, you have a higher likelihood of winning, right. And so that's kind of my first experience on like counterintuitive marketing, which is doing things that maybe you would think wouldn't grow the business, but it ends up growing it because it's kind of thinking outside the box and doing things differently than what your competitors, and everyone else in the market is doing. Interesting. And so that's that's kind of what I wanted to talk about today is how to put yourself in that mindset to see different opportunities. So like, for example, a drill that you could do is you could sit down, research your competitors, and see, what are they all doing right now to market their product? And then push yourself to go, how can I do the exact opposite of what. And when I say the exact opposite. I'm not saying changing the message or anything, I'm talking literally the exact opposite, be where they are not right. And I think this is a useful drill, whether you decide to do these marketing tactics or not. I think it's worth doing to just challenge yourself to try to come up with some different ideas, because marketing is also a creative act. And this is where you should, especially if you're someone who likes to be creative or wants to be in a creative space, this is the time to do how to do things differently than what everyone else is doing. Blake Beus  2:25  Okay. Okay, so. So what are some examples? I mean, you talked about you talked about social media, back in the day with gyms and everything, and and I'm gonna guess many people when they heard you say that the first thing they were saying they they thought of was probably something like, no one in my industry is running tick tock ads I've ever run tick tock ads, right. But that feels a little bit like chasing a shiny new object as opposed to zagging when everybody else is Zig? Yep. What do you think? Yeah, so Greg Marshall  2:57  there's definitely a level of shiny new object. But the first thing you have to think about is, is my market there, right? So that's probably where you should start. So like, if a platform is purely teenagers, and you sell to 50 year old adults, then it's not the right fit. But this is why you want to brainstorm to think, is there is my Market. And this is where you have to truly understand who you're going after? Is my market, actually, on these platforms? Or where they're at? Right? Does that make sense? Yeah. So what you want to be thinking about is like, first understand your market and then go, where are some places that they are at that my competitors are not? Right, or they're not thinking about? Mm hmm, you see what I mean? And so if you do that, what'll end up happening is, you're basically playing a game with no competition. And then your goal is to as quickly as possible on that real estate, because the competitors will show up. As soon as people see anyone making money at anything, there will be competitors, breaking the doors down to go in and do the same exact thing. And so anytime you find a strategy that you have to move quick. Okay. So that's that's kind of how I look at is like, instead of chasing the shiny new object, First understand is your market actually there? And like, in the Facebook instance, I knew, well, I'm staring at 3040 50 year olds that are my target market, women and at the time, Facebook was more popular than Instagram. Instagram was like, still brand new. Yeah. So they were already on Facebook, using it like they're using Instagram today. Right? But no one was really doing anything to target them. Right. And that's when organic reach was huge. That's when Facebook ad costs really low. It was a big opportunity. So I went in and capitalized. Yeah. And that's that's what I mean is to be thinking about places that your market is at, that other people just aren't thinking about, because there was no In the gym world, it's all about billboards, and TV ads and direct mail. Right? And that's what every gym was doing. Yeah, and door hangers and all that. And so I said, Well, the same people are online. But the gyms, my competitors are not marketing. They're so therefore I can get in cheaper and faster, right. easier and and appear to be the only business in town. Yeah. Because that was at the moment, right, just on that platform. Blake Beus  5:30  Okay. Okay. That's interesting. So, I mean, obviously, this can be applied to a wide range of businesses. I think one of the things that comes to my mind when you're talking about this is the first, the very first thing comes to my mind is, this is oftentimes a little bit harder than it sounds in that it's new territory, or if people aren't there, you can't just look at someone else's strategy and basically duplicate a strategy, which is what a lot of marketers do. Yeah. I mean, I've done that in the past, as well. And that's, it's fine. If you you can learn from what's working, then then run with that. But finding a new area that isn't completely saturated, and diving into that. I will say is going to be a little more frustrating and take a little bit more time than someone might expect. Greg Marshall  6:20  Yeah, yeah. Well, I think you almost have to look like this. Number one, the mindset has to be you're willing to test and willing to fail if it doesn't work out, right? Without without taking massive discouragement from it not working. But understanding you're really a phrase I heard one time I can't member who said it, but you're you're drilling for oil. Hmm. So most of your stuff that you're gonna try is not going to work. But when you do find one that works, it's going to be well worth the failed experiments in the past, right? And so yes, it is a little bit more difficult to find these places. But it's, it's definitely worth it. And you just have to like, think about how can can I use and view things slightly different? So if you're looking at, for example, like digital marketing, right, everyone's on digital, everyone's on Instagram, Facebook, whatever. And all the competitors are on there. But a different way to look at it too, though, is there are some industries that don't use digital as much. So digital still can be a place to do it. Right. Right. Like, you know, you see a lot of insurance agents there. I don't see very many insurance agents, doing social media, right? Especially when it comes to using paid ads, right? Or like attorneys or so there's so it's industry based, it's what your competitors are doing. If you're in like a mass market, like a fitness or dating or making money opportunities, most of these digital places are going to be flooded with people, right pushing this stuff, right. But if you're anything else outside of those industries, they're pretty much it's still wide open, right? Because most of the competitors are not investing because they're still doing only the traditional strategy. Billboards, direct mail, TV. Blake Beus  8:08  Yeah, well, I would, I would say two. Most local businesses really don't do a very good job with digital marketing. And local traffic is cheap. Yes. Like you can you can saturate a city. On the cheap, if you want to get a video out there or something like that, it'd be known as the place to go to for XYZ services. You can get that video out there. And And honestly, it works even better if you're in a boring industry, right? I've had people come to me say, Oh, my industry is boring at a title company. It's boring. Well, I got what do I how do I and we talked about some things. But title companies make a lot of money. They have a lot of money to put towards advertising, which can easily translate into a very, very high ROI. And it's a wide open field. Yep. No one in the title industries doing a good job on digital ads. No, Greg Marshall  9:07  it's because what you just said, it's counterintuitive. Every single title company is thinking the same thing. We're so boring. How do we promote our title company? Yeah. So therefore they don't even try? Yeah. Blake Beus  9:21  Yeah. And I mean, this is where my brain gets going. Because I love brainstorming. I love sitting down with the client brainstorming. And if if if we have anybody in the title company listening to this, this is where my brain goes. I'm like, Okay, fine. You think your industry is boring. Lean into that. record some videos that are the most boring videos and just own up the boringness be like, hey, just another boring title company video and tell a story or whatever we like. We'd love to have you come in Yep. We'll make it super boring because no one likes an exciting title experience they want calm, boring. Yep, everything put together and just make this whole series of boring videos, that's something that would go nuts Greg Marshall  10:02  online. Well, and that's something that no one's really trying. Because like we said, the assumption within that industry is that, well, we can do social media cuz we don't have anything fun to post. So that's, that's counterintuitive marketing, because everyone else is intuitively thinking, we have to do direct mail and the other traditional ways, because that's the only way. That's how we've always done it. And sometimes it's good to try to break through and find new ways to do it, because that's where a lot of the opportunity is going to be. And so I think, like, I actually saw an ad yesterday, that was that that I liked a lot. And it's a local comp, it's, I could tell they were locally targeting. It was actually Top Golf. Okay. And it was on tick tock, okay. And I said, Wow, see, they get it because traffic costs right now, tick tock, particularly local marketing is basically free. And so you can reach a ton of people for a very low amount of money. And the fact that they're doing it and they got creative with it, I can assure you, that campaign is performing well, based off of dollars invested to dollars return, because when you're in, when you're in a less competitive platform, or you're not, you know, you're not everyone's going after the same people. That dollar, even if it's not as effective, like the conversion rate isn't great. It's still great, because it's so cheap, that if you convert one out of 1000, but you're paying $2, to reset 1000 It makes Yeah, economic sense. And so that's kind of and you can build a brand that way. Because you're you are bringing up clinical branding yourself while still doing direct response. So I just feel like doing things where it almost feels, I don't know, for lack of better word dumb, or scary or almost irresponsible to do, right. Like, you almost feel a response I'm going to run tic tock ads for for like a grown up business. But, you know, it's it's always worth a try. Because you don't know, and we don't want to make the assumption that we do know. Right. Right. And that's, that's something that I find a lot of businesses, business owners make is breaking the golden rule of assuming everyone consumes and purchases exactly like you. That's not true. Everyone, these platforms wouldn't exist, unless there was a demand. Right. Right. And so people behave differently. Blake Beus  12:30  Yeah. Yeah. And I've also seen a lot of people I've talked with several people that have said, you know, tick tock is just for younger, younger audiences. Yeah, whatever. And it's not there's there's a wide range of people on there. And honestly, not a lot of people on Tik Tok are monetizing their followings here well, at all, in fact, most of them aren't. Yeah. And so there definitely is some opportunity there to to make some moves, you just have to think about and think it through. And like, like you said, maybe Zig when everybody else is zagging along those lines. But I'd like to talk about one of the one of the things and this is old school marketing, but I feel like so many companies leave it and we talk about all the time, but it's email marketing. Oh, yeah. It really is this wide open field. And, and it is a place that a lot of businesses just aren't leveraging they, I can't tell you how many people have have told me recently that, well, email marketing is dead. I said that, yeah, 12 years ago, Greg Marshall  13:36  it still will probably gonna say it's only Blake Beus  13:41  it's the marketing channel that just won't die. And you need to use is one of the cheapest marketing channels to, but it very well could be part of the unintuitive marketing. Greg Marshall  13:52  Well, if I see where you're going, yes, sometimes counter to have does not mean brand new. Right? counter to can be well, intuitively, we should all do Instagram. Well, everyone's thinking that right? So the counter to it was, well, why don't we lean on email, right? Since now, no one's doing that. Right. You see what I mean? So like, I'm happy brought that up just because I don't want to confuse be one of the thinking. counterintuitive means brand new unknown, some secret, you know, treasure chest hidden. This is just thinking the opposite of where your competitors and so sorry to cut you off. I just want Blake Beus  14:33  to know that's the exact point I was trying to make is it doesn't it doesn't have to be the shiny new social media platform. Everybody thinks about social media as the next new thing. I mean, I see people hopping on clubhouse the audio only when I tried that for a little bit. I was just like, This is not my fair. It's not gonna work. I'm not for me. I'm sure it'll work for somebody. But then I also saw like four or five direct tick tock competitors that have cropped up in The last six or so months, especially when President Trump said he was going to ban tick tock knighted states, all these, like startups piling up. And, and some of those emerged and I got an invite to one of those and you know, everybody's trying to find the next new shiny object and that's fine. Try it out. But sometimes the old school stuff is what's going to convert sometimes just those old school principals, because everybody else has moved on. Yep. Unless left this, you know, void of, of, you know, Greg Marshall  15:31  yeah, channel that that basically used to be the Facebook, and Instagram, right of marketing, which was, in the past, it was all about direct mail and Billboard, and then email came along, and that was this, like, wow, you can just send free messages without having to pay for postage or anything. And then, you know, everyone started doing that. And then, you know, Google Ads came out, and now is the thing, and then Facebook ads came out. And there's always gonna be a new thing. You could go back to things that used to work because everyone's left, but they still have huge saturation, because and when I say saturation, not with businesses, but with consumers, like consumers haven't changed as far as we still use Google, for the most part, right? Or if we don't, it's a giant percentage of people who do. And the same thing with, we still all use email, right? Like, we're like that hasn't, it's not like, because email marketing, the open rates have lower, that doesn't mean that the consumer has stopped using email, it's just that you have to change how you're doing it. But that's just, you know, counter to market is all about thinking about your business, and just how can you be different? And how can you do things that can give yourself a competitive advantage, because there always is a way to give your business a competitive advantage, with the assumption that the market actually wants what you have. Right, right. Blake Beus  16:54  Yeah. So so I kind of want to do dive into a couple of specifics. I know we have some listeners that are in software as a service companies, right. So that's a company that provides an online service, you pay monthly subscription to a lot of times they're very tech forward and quite progressive, because they're in the tech kind of area. Tell me some ways you think they could explore some uncharted territory? Greg Marshall  17:30  Well, you think about first, who are they going after? Right? So give me an example of Mark it will we think about? Blake Beus  17:40  Let's, let's say it would be, let's let's just come up with something like a b2b service that helps them sell e commerce. Greg Marshall  17:51  Alright, so a b2b service that helps them sell e commerce. So one of the things that you can think about is like, the first step I would take is go, who's, who's my competitor, or who's doing some similar to what I'm doing? And then I would write down all their strategies, whatever, whatever they're doing maybe Google search campaigns, YouTube campaigns, social media, and then whatever angle that they're not attacking, I would say, all right, almost like you would take an inventory of every channel that's available to you. And then say, you go one by one, and you would say, All right, so are these guys on Tik Tok? Are these guys on forums? Are these guys using? You know, email lists, partner email is with other influencers? Or people who have that audience? Is there some conferences that I can speak at? And is my competitors doing any of that? And if not find where those channels that converts really well. So you'd want to test each channel? Yeah, as as cost effectively as possible. Don't put yourself out of business, but test each channel and then see, can I gain some traction on any of these channels, and then whatever one of those channels are, go all in on that channel as quickly as humanly possible. Because like I said, the competitors will figure out what you're doing, and then they'll start doing it. And so I would say, look into whatever channels that are available, that are not being tapped into. And if they have your market, start testing those and then see which one of those gives you the most traction. And then once you find one, go heavy in on it all and put all your resources in it, and just try to basically extract as much ROI as you possibly can before the rest. Blake Beus  19:32  Well, the good thing about that with with software as a service companies with that strategy is they make money over time, right? It's a subscription service. So as long as they're, you know, their churn rates are low and they're providing a good service. All the new customers they sign up even if someone else figures out what what they're doing, tries to tries to steal some of that market share. You know, they've got customers for life essentially. Yeah, and Greg Marshall  19:54  I think the the subscription model is really popular cheap because you can pay a little bit more to acquire cash Summer, just because you know, the, you know, the lifetime value is typically much higher than like a one time purchase, right? And so you don't have to, like keep selling them. But yeah, I would, you know, if I was a SaaS company and I was trying to grow, I would probably look heavily into places that the competition almost like, puts their nose up and say, we would never do that. Because then you have an even more competitive advantage, because their egos will get in the way of them trying this technique, if it's working for you, right, which gives you buys you more time to be able to do it, because most people they don't want to be wrong. And so if they say this will never work, they want to make sure that right, and so therefore they won't do it. And so it gives you a huge time advantage to just go horrible. They're never going to enter. So yeah, let's Let's speed this up even more. So by the time someone on their team, or their you know, their board members tell him you better get on here. It's too late. You've already acquired. Blake Beus  21:02  Yeah, yeah. So I want to talk a little bit about shift gears just a little bit. And and talk about a strategy. I've seen work in this regards. So we've talked about channels, right? Where it like there's some some uncharted territory channels. But one of the things a lot of people don't realize is, you know, this is your business, or you're working at this business here. Maybe the uncharted territory is a new product or new idea, you can create that. So if you see an opportunity for a different angle, on on on the people, so you're not directly competing with Yeah, with whatever. Even if it's maybe a first ask company, maybe it's a lower priced yet tier that addresses a very specific need that people have right before they're ready for your a higher priced tier. Or, you know, if your local business that does, I don't know, I don't know something. Instead of having direct competition with other local businesses, you can shift that model just a little bit. You don't have to abandon your old model, but you shift your model and offer something new. And that could be your uncharted territory. And I feel like a lot of people get really stuck in the eye, no, this product or service is going to work. Yeah, it needs to work. It's worked for 10 years, it's going to continue to work for 10 more years. And I'm not saying that's not gonna work, but I'm saying maybe people maybe we need to market to people that aren't quite ready for that. And we need to sell them a product or service that gets them ready for your core product or offer. Absolutely. And that could be the the uncharted territory that that you lean into as well. Greg Marshall  22:33  Well, I think Do you know who? The fact that you said that reminds me of Dino Peter Thiel is, so Peter Thiel was the first investor, or one of the early investors of Facebook, okay. And he was also involved, I believe, with PayPal, okay. And he's a huge Silicon Valley. I mean, I'm pretty sure this guy's a billionaire. But anyways, you probably say This guy knows a little bit about adopting or going with the flow and how you talk about successful coaching. And I read his book, I can't remember the name of the book, but he had a book where he said, you can get a competitive advantage, even just by the sales channel or strategy that you have. Right, and that and basically, what you're saying is coming up with a new offer, or a new product, new service, or just rebranding the same thing, a different way, can really give you a competitive advantage. And even if you look at certain times, because the market changes, the demands are different in different stages, so it's safe to say right now, if you had an offer, right, you know, the make money online, you know, offer right now, or, you know, social media ads, you know, that was that was a big one, too. The new offer would be going in and saying, Hey, are you scared to death, about iOS 14 tracking, and the cookieless feature that we're, you know, about to start participating in, and I have a solution for them, that will help you, you know, quote, unquote, fix that and know exactly how your sales go. That product or service right there will sell like crazy now, that service might exist? I don't know. But I know that offer will attract a lot of people. Yeah. Because you're you're banking on what people have lost. So right now people feel like they've been stripped of their privileges have been taken away. A lot of marketers feel right. So if you can tell them that you can give them their privileges back and you're the only one you're going to get sales. Right. And that so that would be a strategy of counterintuitive if they can, well, why would I sell these people ads? When the real concern is not? I need to, you know, put together ads. The real concern is, I don't know what ads are working. Right. Right. So now that's the new offer. That's the new product. And what what's his name Alex Becker with Hi ROAs he would see, I bet you he's doing fantastic because he came out with his product. About a few months, I believe, before iOS started getting talked about right. And so he was pretty much ready to go with a great offer, knowing that people will be scared to death. Yep, let's iOS hit. And I bet you there's so many people hopped onto the service. Blake Beus  25:21  Oh, totally. If people don't know what we're talking about, he launched a product called Hieros, which helps, quote unquote, fix attribution between as channels due to losing that when iOS 14 started blocking tracking cookies and things like that. Greg Marshall  25:38  You're smart enough to know any of this even. So, could you say a little bit about what you think is happening? Blake Beus  25:44  Yeah, well, essentially, what they're doing is they're they're using some different kind of metrics and things to generate. profiles, and then match those profiles back up. The thing that's interesting is based on tests I've done and some other people have done. It performs about as good as having a good Google Ads strategy and setting up those reports. But sitting those reports is a pain in Google ads, or I'm sorry, Google Analytics and Google Analytics. Because Google Analytics does a pretty good job of tracking some of that stuff. The second thing they do is actually import some of that back into your ads manager, which Google Analytics doesn't do back into Facebook ads. Yeah. But the thing I want to Yeah, the thing I want people to understand is when when he launched this product, it wasn't perfect. Yeah, it had some bugs, it had some things, it's much better. Now. There's other products out there that solve this problem as well. But he was just really positioned, positioned nicely from a timing perspective and everything. So what I'm getting at is, you don't necessarily have to have a perfect solution. Sure. Right. What you need to have is a solution, then get feedback and perfect that over time. And if there are any bugs or issues, you can take care of that in, in the customer support and Long Term Support area. Yeah, right. Because a lot of people have, a lot of businesses have an opportunity to lean into like a new product or offer. But they stress out about not being good enough or whatever, and you don't, you don't need to worry about that stuff quite so much. You kind of need to get it out there. And then perfect as you go, it just works for local businesses, this doesn't have to be like a tech business or whatever. One great example, of of a pivot is, I work in a creative studio, having an office and I'm surrounded by lots of artists, and things like that. And a lot of them were teaching, you know, workshops or selling things. And that's kind of a pretty standard model for an artist, then they'll have some workshops where they teach their skills, and their craft, and then they'll sell their, their pieces or whatever. And then they'll have commissions, right, where someone pays them to make something specific for whatever, right a mural or a painting for an area or a statue for a hotel or something like that. When the pandemic hit, you know, through all all of that kind of out the window, the sales channel got taken away, he got taken away. And so a lot of people leaned into, like zoom classes, and that what that did is it expanded their audience from just a local business to now they could teach anybody, anywhere in the world, right? As long as the time zones matched up, and they were teaching. And, you know, so that was opportunity, but had a lot of those people leaned into that. In 2019, they could have had, there was a lot of opportunity there for these online classes. In 2020. A lot of people leaned into that, and it works. But everybody in their dog was adding into that at that time, because that was like the only way. Right. And so. So that's that's one of those those things to think about, you know how to handle timing or whatever, but it can work for local businesses. It could work for big businesses. Yeah. I mean, all the time. You see it all the time. You see it all over the place. I oftentimes because I do marketing, I think about this stuff when I go to the grocery store. Oh, yeah. I have four kids. And we're there all the time. We're shopping all the time. And unless Greg Marshall  29:11  you bill I'm sure. Blake Beus  29:15  It is. But you go to the grocery store, and you got to realize all of the packaging is marketing. Yep. And you see you'll, you'll see all these you'll see changes. You'll see people tweaking things you'll see. See Oreo. Yeah, Oreos is one of my favorites. Yeah. Because they're constantly leaning into all of these new different flavors. Yeah. And that doesn't hurt them to try out a flavor. That doesn't work. Yep. But then they do try to flavor they're like sweet that works. But then what do they do? They pull it off the shelves and then launch it again in four months. Yep. And you know what my kids do? Ah, Dad, we can't get the they have. They have the Star Spangled Banner, ones that have rocked I've had this am I kids every year now need them. They need that. They need they need them. Right. But they found I mean, it's a cook. It's a cookie. Yeah. But they found Uncharted Terry territory in an industry that's been selling cookies for? Greg Marshall  30:16  I don't know. Yeah, how many different ways to really make Blake Beus  30:19  out, but they found some ways. Yeah. And you can do that with by by switching up your product offerings as well. Greg Marshall  30:25  Well, and that's, you know, you bring up the point. And that's really why I brought up that whole Hieros thing is, here's the interesting, so I knew that Alex, you know, cuz I consume a lot of his content. I like his stuff. He was a YouTube ads guy, right. But to give you a good example, he was all about YouTube ads. I was like, forget about Facebook, it's too expensive because of at the time what he was selling. It was too competitive, like meaning not that he couldn't sell it there. Set the prices were too high. Right. So he was all about YouTube ads. But here's the interesting thing. Now I see him I never see him on YouTube. Now I ever see him is on Facebook. But guess why? Because he knows his offering is different. And he's in the space where everyone is panicking, which Facebook advertisers are on Facebook, panicking, Santa. So looking at this, so he's placing this beautifully crafted offer of I can solve your fear right now. And we just click right here and book a call right on Facebook, which is brilliant. I didn't. So I think it's a great stretch so that I brought that up, because that's basically what you're saying about counter to marketing can also be the change of the offer. It doesn't have to be location or platform based. Blake Beus  31:41  And when you change the offer, the channel might change as well. Correct. Right. And, and all of those are things you can test. And I really hope we're not kind of overwhelming people with a lot of with a lot of this stuff. It doesn't have to be overwhelming. What we're trying to do is speak in general terms, because we have a broad, yeah, listener base in all sorts of different areas. But in your area in your industry, you don't have to think super crazy about a lot of this stuff. Think about what are some ways that can change some things up? What would be the craziest thing and a lot of people, I do this with a lot of my clients, I schedule a split, I book out of time and say we are going to do nothing, we're not going to launch ads, or I'm talking about whatever, we're just going to brainstorm. Yep. And if we come if we write down 100 different angles, or ideas or areas of the site that we feel like need improvement or something, and one of them is good, that our has a huge ROI. Yep. But a lot of people don't don't take the time to just like, throw out ideas if they're crazy or not. Right. And it's, it needs to happen. I think I will Greg Marshall  32:43  I agree with that. And I think, you know, when you when you talk about that, really the you know how I love Dan Kennedy. He has a saying where he talks about most business owners do random acts of marketing, versus thinking about what they're trying to do. And, and I've been guilty of this before many, many times, which is just doing the activity versus strategically doing two different things. And sitting down and investing an hour where you do nothing but brainstorm, come up with a strategy will give you a much higher ROI than just randomly doing stuff in a panic mode. Right. Right. Blake Beus  33:28  Right. And I would say when you do that our I don't want you to look at any competitor ideas, nothing. I want you to just sit down and trust, like your intuition and your knowledge of your customers. And just throw out some crazy ideas. Yeah, throw out some crazy stuff. Greg Marshall  33:45  be a kid again. Right? And you know, I think, you know, I remember I'm big on quotes, because I like to read and I remember reading this, this lady, I think she was like 104 years old, like she was she was up there. Right. And they someone asked her what's the secret to, you know, aging so well, because I guess she still had like a lot of energy. And she was still, you know, very talkative as well. And she said, Well, the secret is to understand adults ruin everything. And to just live your whole life like a kid. Yeah. And I thought that was so impactful. And you know, I think she said it. That's not the exact phrase, but that's how I received it was it's true. When you become an adult, all of your creativity seems I get zapped out of you because you're so you're quote unquote, doing what you're supposed to do. But take some of these times to think about fewer kids again, with no responsibilities, no concerns about what other people think about you or they're gonna think you're a moron for doing this. And just take the hour it's within yourself anyway, so no one's gonna know. Yeah, and just allow yourself to be kidding and say there are no limits to what I I can try. Because what I have found we've worked with some people during brainstorming sessions is they still say, Yeah, but, but that would have worked, but But you have to look at it more like, we don't know if it'll work or not. We're just going to try it. Right. And so that's where I think brainstorming the biggest value is to get yourself in the mindset of like, pretend anything you say will work. And that it's impossible for it not to work. Yeah, just for the sake of allowing yourself because if you don't do that, you're going to give like, kind of, I don't know, boxed in ideas in your brainstorm versus just like, Yeah, let's just try some while and see what happens. Blake Beus  35:40  And it works. I've seen brands build their entire strategy around doing doing stuff like that. Well, one of my favorites, and you'll probably hear me bring them up over and over and over again, because I love how they market. It's a swim suit company for men called Chevy's. Chevy's. Yeah, never heard of No. Oh, man. Yeah, everyone should go to Instagram and check it out. Okay. But essentially, they've really leaned in hard to the the dad bod, and bring back the short shorts that are really out there. Yeah. And so a lot of their content is, is stuff from like the 80s and 90s. With like, go guys with Molex super short cut off jeans, not 1970s and 80s. And they're like, Well, you know, we need to bring the short shorts. Yeah, yeah. And they're their whole line is these just outrageously colored? swim trunks for men? Yep. And, and their ads, their social media is hilarious. Li their whole brand is centered around this ridiculous notion of short shorts. short shorts aren't going to be for everybody. They get that but they leaned in hard to the short shorts for Dad bonds. Yeah. And it's a it's a great brand and a thermal strategy. Well, Greg Marshall  36:50  I think it's a great angle. And I think, you know, one of the people, I don't know if people like or dislike this, this gentleman, but Richard Branson, to me, markets, his business, like a kid, and he does it differently, right? All this the publicity stunts and things that he does, it's like you would obviously he is not holding back when it comes to creativity and thinking like, this is not possible. But you can learn a lot from a marker like that, because, you know, he's a billionaire. And he's, he's doing things outside the box, that work. That's still within reason, right? So like, he knows, well, if I go on a hot air balloon across, you know, an ocean, people are probably gonna watch that, right? Because it's, it's out there. But you notice on his balloon, he has his brand version, right? It's one of the SARS techniques to carry T eyeballs. And, and, and the other thing is, you remember, you're like, Man, that's crazy. I can't believe he even a tip. What kind of a maniac would try that. But that's kind of the goal is he's thinking like a kid, like, you know, a six year old kid will think of an idea that and actually try to do it with no, yeah, but nothing holding them back. But you know, you try to get one of us, you know, late 30s, early 40s 50 year old, we won't even think at all to try that. And so that's where I think there's a lot of value into trying to have almost like, no, what, no inhibitions when it comes to you think about your marketing, and what you can do to actually see where the good ideas are at. Blake Beus  38:31  I love it a lot. All right, well, we'll wrap this one up, Greg, tell tell everyone how they can get in touch with who they want. Greg Marshall  38:37  Yeah. Just go to my website, Greg marshall.co. And that's dot CEO. And if you want to book a free strategy session, just go ahead and leave your information there. And what about you how they get in touch with you? Blake Beus  38:48  Just like the stock calm, and I basically have all my info right there. Greg Marshall  38:51  Great. Well, thanks for listening to us today. Hopefully, you came up with some good ideas. And we'll see you next week. All right.  

Monday Nov 22, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript   Blake Beus  0:00  But we're recording. Right? All right. Oh, Greg Marshall  0:06  Blake, what do you think? So you've got the topic of the day, you said this to me yesterday. And I thought, interesting timing, because I've been seeing some of these things and the ad accounts, and I've Yeah, my theories, and I have yours, Blake Beus  0:20  we're gonna talk about this. And a lot, a lot of people have a lot of crazy theories about how, you know, the algorithm, or all of these different things work. And some of those could be true, some of them might not be true, but I'm gonna read this actually word for words, so we can pick it apart, because there's been lots of discussion about what's actually going on here. So Facebook, came out with this announcement, starting today. I'm quoting, starting today, if someone does not have their Facebook and Instagram accounts linked in accounts center, we will consider those accounts as separate people for ads planning and measurement. A lot of advertisers are reading into what this might mean. And first and foremost, you might be listening to this thinking, what is account center? Yeah, and I'll be honest, I'm in Instagram, Facebook all the time. I didn't know what a cat senator was either. Yeah, I didn't even know it was a thing. Greg Marshall  1:17  Well, I've heard of it. And I also don't really know, what their meaning by Account Center, and the structuring of that. And so just hearing that makes you wonder, well, if I'm in it all day, and urine all day, how does my mom now or you know, someone who barely uses social media? Blake Beus  1:40  Exactly. And so what they're saying is, if the accounts, if your Instagram or Facebook account aren't LinkedIn account center, then they're going to count those as two separate people for reach and estimated audience size and all of these things. And based on just some loose data, I'm going to guess nearly everyone does not have those accounts, Leah, and so you might start seeing potential reach numbers go up, which would cause your CPMs to go down? Even though not really you're only reaching the same person just on different platforms, if you're running ads on both Facebook and Instagram. Greg Marshall  2:21  Well, one one thing now that you say that one thing that maybe test is when you run your ads, do more manual placement. Yeah, so actually say, Show this ad on Facebook only? And show this ad on Instagram? Oh, yeah. And just compare the reach, and then test them both together and see if they're somewhat similar. Because one of the things we talked about yesterday, the potential issue with this, I guess, from an advertiser standpoint, you know, I'm running a lot of ads. I know you run a lot of ads. You know, the CPM is one of the numbers, the CPMs, which is the cost for the traffic has gone up. I also find it conveniently coincidental that it's happening during the most expensive time of the year. Yeah. Which is the fourth quarter Hmm. Which makes me think advertisers must be either leaving the platform or panicking about the cost of the traffic that they're getting. Yeah, that maybe they're the there's a change to make it to make us advertisers possibly feel slightly better about what we're spending, right. And I I get both sides do not want to make it sound like everything is always bad on one side. And we're the you know, the good side versus the bad, but more of what is what are the incentives? What should we be paying attention to? And just kind of like the episode, we just did control what we can control? Yeah. And try to make the best of what's available to us. So that's, that's kind of my thoughts. But what are your thoughts about that? That's my first thought is, if they want to drive CPMs down, and it's the fourth quarter. It's just coincidental that this change is happening right now. Blake Beus  4:08  Yeah, well, I think, I don't know some people read into things and think this is could be nefarious or whatever, I don't know, maybe, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But the fact of the matter is, is businesses all the time try to present their products and services in the best light. And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. I mean, I go to the grocery store, and I see I see, you know, now with 20%, more or whatever I like, there's all of these triggers. And I don't go to the grocery store and think, oh my gosh, I'm being manipulated everything. For a long, long, long time. Facebook has been known amongst the world of marketers as, as a platform, you can get really cheap reach, right for a long time and a lot of advertisers over the years because of that have almost all their experience on Facebook only and haven't explored other platforms. Google, I will tell you right now, every every campaign I've ever run on Google, the CPMs are higher than they have been on Facebook. But now that Facebook CPMs are going up and up and up. Facebook might be thinking their advertisers are looking at other platforms like Google or, or LinkedIn, or Tik Tok or something like that, and and exploring those platforms and, and Facebook is maybe saying, Okay, well, we're going to maybe make these numbers look look a little bit better, whatever. I don't know, I love your idea of running traffic to other each platform, right? Because the reality is, is that while these numbers might mean something slightly different than what you think they mean, the or they meant in the past. As a good and non lazy marketer, you should be testing things anyway. Yeah, and so go ahead and test this out. And honestly, we change brings opportunity, we literally recorded a podcast about this, which you probably are going to listen to him out of order anyway. Because of published dates, but the this, this change is yet another chance for opportunity. And if you're testing a specific ad account, you might have an ad account that performs significantly better with the change, you might have an ad account that that performs worse with this change. Or you might have an ad account that this change doesn't impact hardly at all. Yeah, but you won't know that unless you do some testing, you test on either platform to see what's going on there. And really, that's what we want people to do, you want to be data driven, because there's no hard and fast rules about any of this stuff. It all really depends on your account, the data in your account, the offer, the language, and the wording and everything. And, and that just goes to show and we ought to probably take a step back and talk about that. We talk about it a lot. But this is another opportunity to maybe reevaluate your offer, maybe re evaluate your hook, maybe evaluate your image or the video or some of those strategies or your strategies, right, take a chance to look at the psychology side of things. And and maybe peel back away from the numbers just a little bit. Focus on some of those, the messaging and the hook and all that stuff. Greg Marshall  7:10  Well, I think you're right on when it comes to change. This is how you hit the harder I guess, you know, the harder quote unquote, tracking becomes, the harder everything becomes because we've had it made for the last few years that it's like, we're like spoiled children. Now we've got everything we've ever wanted. And now it's being taken away from us, and how dare they but I think it's a good thing, because the opportunities will, will pretty much present themselves. Because if things get harder, that means more people quit. That means more people try to move to other things, more of the people that maybe are taking up all of the space and the oxygen and the ad inventory. We'll try something else. Yeah. Just because it's not as easy. And if you're if you're, I guess you could if you consider yourself a professional, and whatever it is you do, then you have to be committed to learning adjusting, even when it hurts to get better at whatever it is that you know is in front of you and things are going to constantly change. This is not the last change, we're going to see, we're always going to see constant change. And so I think, mindset wise, we should be thinking about how can we take advantage of these changes that are happening? And what can we do to separate ourselves from everyone else? Because usually, people become more successful when these types of changes happen. When there's opportunities where people see what does that quote, opportunity is worth disguise or whatever. You know, I'm talking about, I actually haven't heard that. There's a quote, and I don't even know if it's really said by Henry Ford, but I think so put it up, which is like, opportunity is disguised as hard work. Right? And I think this is one of these scenarios where you're going to see more marketers kind of panic, leave or get upset, because it's not like it used to be right. But the opportunity is in understanding, well, this is great. There's probably not a new opportunity because these changes have happened. Blake Beus  9:16  Right? Right. And this reminds me of one of my favorite quotes. And I don't even know who said this. And but it's lazy marketers make lazy money. Yep. And this is an opportunity to to really take a step back and evaluate things. So if I were to if I had a client come to me, they showed me this article, and they said, Hey, what should I do? What should I do? I have a couple of ideas. And I would love to pick your brain? Well, the first thing I would say is use this as an opportunity, opportunity to diversify your strategy. If you're not using YouTube ads, let's use some YouTube ads. If you're not using LinkedIn ads, let's try out some LinkedIn ads. And that would be the that's where my mind goes first and foremost. But Greg, if you had a client that came to you and said, I'm sorry freaking out about this this is Facebook being shady whatever, well, what would you say to them? How we should proceed to move forward? Greg Marshall  10:06  Well, the first thing I would say is, remember, your business is your business. And these are just traffic sources. And so if they make a change our job or your job as the business owner is to adjust your strategy, and what you need to do in order to move forward right and project out. So So the answer would be, well, if the tracking, isn't there, what does that tracking mean? Anyways, because if you're using ultra precise tracking, and overly relying on that, and not thinking about building a full system, a full marketing system that happens all the time, then your business is actually probably more flawed than the traffic source. And the problem there. Right? That makes sense? Because if if, let's say, if I started a business, where I'm just like, Well, I'm just gonna only leverage the algorithm of these platforms. Well, if that's the case, I don't have a true business, because I'm only relying on that source of traffic, right? I'm not actually building a business, which is systems and people and processes and procedures, focus on the fundamentals, anytime you see changes that happen with traffic sources, or whatever it is that we're all accustomed to using. And we don't want to change. Always go back to what are the fundamentals? Right? What is my business? What is? How do I serve the customer? And just think, well, how can I get because all these platforms really are our messaging platforms? How do I get a message to get in front of someone that I want to do business with? Yeah, so if you just look at it that way, and just go, alright, well, if I can't get my message out this way, what's a different way that I can get my message out, you just have to be you got to be flexible, agile, and you just have to move and go, This don't work today. I guess I have to try something. Blake Beus  11:56  Right. And, and it's, it can be an opportunity to really, really think differently about this. One of my favorite examples of this is actually talked about this briefly on another podcast. But there's this guy in the tech space in the marketing space. And he noticed that a lot of his ideal and perfect clients were using WordPress as a yes, website platform. And they were using a specific plugin for WordPress. And he's like, okay, so I have I have some money, where do I invest this? This plugin hadn't really had a lot of updates in a while. So we just contacted the developer and said, Can I buy the rights to this plugin for it? Can I buy it from you and maintain it myself with my team and everything? And they they struck a deal, and I don't know how much they paid for that deal. But they struck a deal. And now this guy's plug in on the next update. He updated it fixed a few bugs and everything. But now he's got a little link in there that says, you know, hey, this plugin is brought to you by, you know, I think his name's Noah Keegan. Okay, again, yeah, the guy. Okay, dork is website. This plug is brought to you by Noah Kagan. You know, contact me if you want to chat or whatever, just like a super soft call to action. And I don't know how much that traffic he got out of that. But that plug in right there probably got in front of, you know, 10 or 20,000 of his ideal clients, innovative market. That's innovative marketing. And there's lots of different ways you can be innovative like that, another innovative way that literally anyone can do because you might be thinking, Okay, well, I don't have a team of developers. And I don't know what platform people use, and I can't maintain a plugin. Another innovative idea is this is old school. But you just contact another business that's in a related field, or even a business that might be a direct alternative to your business, and say, Hey, let's do some sort of combined promotion, let's because I know you have your customers, I have mine, there's plenty of pie out there for everyone. If you have a bigger slice, that doesn't mean I have a smaller slice, let's be collaborative. And let's let's put together some sort of collaborative promotion. And we'll email both of our lists or we'll post it on both of our socials or something Greg Marshall  14:05  elaborations I couldn't agree with you more like, we're gonna go I like I use the term old school, right, which is essentially a different way of saying, getting back to work. Yeah. Right. So instead of letting everything else do the work for us, we have to get back to work, which is Dan Kennedy. And you know, this, I say this all the time is my absolute favorite marketer of all time, because I think he calls it how it is. And his principles are just fundamentals. Right. And so, one of the things that I learned from listening to his programs for years is he had like this drawing of how in the center of your business, right, like the center is your business, and then almost like, like car tire spokes, you have all these different sources of traffic and ways to generate leads and your job as the business owner. To continuously build that wheel, because you never want to make yourself susceptible to one way of getting business, right, right. And so that's why if you're doing the fundamentals and always remembering that we are borrowing these platforms, and that we do not own them, that we need to be grateful that they're available to us, but also be aware that they can be taken away from us as well. So our job is not faceless job, or YouTube's job to make sure that Greg feels comfortable every day that he can grow his business. Right, right. It's Greg's job to figure out if this traffic source isn't available, what would happen if this got canceled, or that or this wasn't available, and you and your job is to keep building that wheel? And that's how that for whatever reason that always stuck with me is like, that makes sense. Because we've all had, you know, times in our lives where you overly rely on one thing, and then it's gone. You panic. Yeah. And you're like, Oh, my now what my whole thing is built on that. Right. Blake Beus  16:02  Right. Well, and it also, one of the thoughts that came to my mind when you were talking about this wheel, because I love that visualization is, is some spokes of that wheel are only going to reach certain types of people. Correct. But you could have and probably do, I think every business does, has a large, large, large audience out there, that isn't on that particular spot exactly. Or isn't participating in a way that where they would even show up on that particular spoke, right. And a great example of this, I think, is upper level management. If you have a product or a service that is geared towards someone in an upper level management position, think VP, CEO of a medium sized company, I'll be honest, guys, they're not on Facebook. Yep, most of those people don't even have social media, especially if they, if they're a larger company, because their trend, they're probably trending a little bit older in age or whatever. And they just don't have the time for Facebook or Instagram, right? Or they just don't value or they just don't care. Yeah, they don't care about there. They're doing completely different things. And so you need to get a little bit more creative. They might be hanging out on LinkedIn, but they might, they might not be using any social media platform. So you might be thinking, Okay, how do I, how do I get in touch with these people, and that's where maybe you go to trade shows or conventions or, or you go to events that are related to what you're offering, and try to meet some people face to face. There's there's a lot of ways to think about it. But you might be spending time focused on one spoke and spending money focused on one spoke and leaving out all of these other opportunities Anyway, Greg Marshall  17:42  well, and that that actually you bring up another Dan Kennedy point, which this is why I believe in this strategy, he says, he says, well, people say newspaper advertising or direct mail, or whoever platform it is that's considered old school is dead. And he says, not if you're trying to talk to older people with money, what if you're trying to talk to a six year old, that needs to spend a lot of money? Yeah, they're not going to be on any of these other platforms, they're only going to be able to be reached through newspaper, or direct mail, or any of the things that are, quote unquote, out of style, right. And that put a light bulb in my head, because that makes you understand, you have to keep building these spokes. And each spoke is an asset that's valuable to you. And even if it's only short term, that's okay. Because your job is to continuously build the spokes. And so one of the ways that I like to think about because I'm considered b2b A lot, right? So I'm looking for the CEO, upper level management person. And one of the ways that I understand is, I'm not going to find that person on Facebook, I know that, or Instagram, or even sometimes LinkedIn, or Google or YouTube ads. I'm going to find that person through a presentation. So old school chamber of commerce, trade shows, find a way to speak in front of an audience. It usually consists of those types of people, and you'll be able to pick up those clients and that's a spoke. Yeah, public speaking is a spoke. Yeah. tradeshows. That's another sort of podcasting. That's another one. So you have to keep building the spokes or else you're putting your business and your livelihood in jeopardy because you're you're you're pretty much very vulnerable if you don't have these because you can break down at any moment. If you're only using one or two. Blake Beus  19:35  Yeah, yeah. I think I think it's worth pointing out to you have fast spokes and slow Yes, yes. So I'm laughing over here cuz that sounds like Slowpoke and yeah, for some reason that just really started. Yeah, yes. But, and, and the other thing to think about too, is on any one of those spokes, you you have people that are willing to buy right now versus people that are willing to buy buy later down the road. And we talked, we talked about this. I mean, one of the things I've been playing around with my email list, my email list is full of nothing but buyers. Yeah, for the most part. Yeah. And people that have bought from me in the past, and I've been playing around with different ways to market to that list. I've sent out very direct messages saying, hey, sign up for my new program, which is the new offer the offer? I'm kind of promoting right now sign up for my SM three program. And I will get signups. Yep. And then I sent out this last week of last couple weeks have been sending out basically very soft offers saying hey, here's this free training. And it's literally just a training that I'm just telling you how to do something, it's not a sales video disguised as a training, it's literally a training. And at the very end, I just say, Hey, if you want to chat further about this, or whatever, click the link below. And it's a link to my sales pitch. And I get signups those people also saw my first emails but didn't take action. But then they saw this training and then did take action. And so it's it's like even though you have a particular channel, email, marketing, Facebook, whatever, you need to understand that people are gonna respond in different ways to different types of messaging, those channels and different in different times and everything. And so you really want to have, we've talked about all the time, more holistic approach, and you really want to be in addition to paid advertising channels, you really want to be marketing in channels where you can't measure the success. Yeah, because that's where oftentimes a lot of the real gold is is in those channels. And that's honestly one of the reasons we're doing podcaster podcasting is one of those platforms, we see the number of downloads, yep, sort of, because because of how, how podcasting works, some platforms will pull in and consume your podcast hosted on their servers, and then you might get 10,000 downloads on that server. And that never gets reported back to our dashboard, we have no idea we really have no idea how many views we're getting, or downloads we're getting on this. And we don't know if people are clicking on the links in the in it are going to whatever, it's there's not a lot of visibility there. But it is a very profitable channel, if done, right. Yeah. And there's other channels like Greg Marshall  22:13  that? Well, and the thing about channels is this, the measuring part will be more and more challenging as we move forward, especially if you're using digital. And that's why if you use a full system, you want to just look at the return on your system. Because the system is the biggest asset. It's kind of like if you look at as a car, you could say, well, what's more important the wheel that you're steering or the wheels on the ground? Or the engine? Well, it's kind of all of them, right? Like we can't like limit one or the other to try to quote unquote, optimize you need at all. And so one of the, you know, these channels where you have to look at it as if you're investing and more and more channels, one channel, could we could do a podcast, we can get one sale, it can make us $25,000 each year. Yeah. With a contract, that channel has now become profitable, right? Well, we got one purchase, right? But it's worth Yeah, right. But we never would have got it unless we invested in the channel. Right? And so that's why each channel you have to look at is there's potential to make a return and many different ways. And just the instant today, which is what everyone's after the that I need the return today. And that's it. Blake Beus  23:28  Yeah. And really, what you want is kind of a mix of the of the boat in the cash infusion today. Yep. But then long, longer term strategies to help build and grow over time. And I'll be very transparent and blunt, one of the biggest issues I had early on with my business was I was focusing just on the very immediate cash return types of types of work, and not so much on the longer term, you know, types of marketing channels, and it made it made 2020 really suck. Greg Marshall  24:02  Yeah, and I think and once they use the word that's important balance, yeah. Because being overly one or the other, can get you in trouble. So if you're overly cash flow today, only then you're you're sacrificing the future. Right? If you're only the future, you got nothing today. Yeah. Right. And so you have to have a balance of like, how do I make returns now? While also thinking about how do I make returns in the future? And that's, that's like the million dollar question, right? How do you set that up? And I believe it's building out your wheel getting all your traffic sources and and really committing to building a marketing system. And not just like a system and every other aspect but the marketing right or the sales but really taking it just as serious like the marketing and the sales is like the car is just you know the wheel that you're steering is just as important as the wheels on the ground. And everything needs to be paid attention to you can't ignore half the car or whatever, if you want the car to actually work. And so that's how you want to look at your entire businesses. Not only customer management, process man assistance, man, but also sales and marketing management. How do we get all of these to work together? So the car can last 20 3040 years instead of it work? Yeah, a works today, I took this one tire off, and I drove a little faster for 10 miles. But then the problem was, I couldn't go anywhere, right? Where I'm driving the car too fast. And it burns out and I got to go to the shop. So that's just kind of my thought process about balancing today. Yeah. And the futures it you have to have a balance. And it's a continuous thing, because sometimes we can all get overly seduced by you know, the gambling aspect of making money today. Yeah. And forgetting about oh, yeah, well, what about 10 years from now? Yeah. Are the diseases are making trade and Blake Beus  26:04  hurt 10 years? Yeah. And it, it reminds me, it reminds me of this. Well, I see it all the time, I see people chasing the shiny new object, right? One One, quote, shiny new object I've heard and it's just new to me, is this concept. And we'll probably do something on this in the future. Because I think it's an interesting subject, I'd like to pick your brain on it. But it's this concept called Dark funnels, or dark social and, and it's a cool name that I'm super jealous of, because Nina was hard, right? Like, but, um, the concept is, is this essentially social media marketing efforts that you can't track you have visibility into and so that things like, you know, commenting in LinkedIn groups, or Facebook groups, or something like this, and one of the guys is pushing this really hard, his messages. If I were to start my business all over right now, I would focus on nothing but dark, whatever. And I'm like, that's, that's great. Greg Marshall  26:57  I guess that's probably a little too extreme. But anyway, Blake Beus  27:01  it is I'm like, I, this is where we start talking about balance. And I know why he's doing it, because that's what his consulting company does, right. And it's so much easier to talk about and push one specific concept and idea than it is to talk about things holistically. But things are aren't just, here's the one solution, everything. And marketers love to do that, like, this is a one way one fix this will fix everything. But the reality is is, is if you focus just on those things, you'll probably get a sale here and there. And your growth will be super slow, especially if you're starting out. In fact, that's probably not sustainable at all, if you're just starting out. Yeah. And so I feel like a lot of this, this is the journey I feel like a lot of businesses has, especially if they're kind of like in my core area where someone is there, they do the solar entrepreneur and start growing some things, they, they oftentimes will start off with this. Nothing but organic growth, I don't want to spend any money on ads, nothing more, but organic growth. And so they focus on posting and all of these things, and that's great. But their growth is slow. And then they are they start realizing well, you know, let's run some ads to push to an offer, and they start getting that immediate cash and like, sweet, I'm gonna do nothing. But as I focus all my time on ads, and that's great. And that can get you to a point and you start getting all these different followers and everything. But then when your your, you know, business overhead starts to increase, sometimes that model is less sustainable. So you need to hire on some additional staff or something like that. Now you're not as profitable as you once were, because you have this built in overhead. And and then they get to the point where they think, Okay, now what do I do, and this is where the wheel comes in. If you can focus on these wheel, the wheel and the spokes and think about things from a more holistic standpoint, then then you'll be better off as you go. And the one thing I want people to understand is, you don't need to feel overwhelmed about this, you feel like you need to have 5050 spokes on your wheel right now. And And honestly, this is what both you and I talk with a lot of our clients about and why we get hired by is we can help them focus on Okay, let's focus on these two spokes right now. And then in three, four months, we'll add these other two or three spots. And so you're not overwhelmed. Because you can only do so much. Yeah, there are ways to prioritize what you're working on, and how to focus on that. And honestly, I mean, if anybody has any questions about your specific thing, feel free to reach out to us as well. Yeah, Greg Marshall  29:19  I mean, I think to one of the, the big. I consider myself one of the boringness marketers on the planet. And the reason why I say that is because I feel like the a lot of the ideas and concepts that I try to push are not what people really want to hear. Right. Just like exercise that we talked about with content creation. A lot of these things are, you know, we're talking about building systems. That doesn't sound very fun. We're building sustainability, long term growth. None of that sounds fun for anyone because we want it today, right? But I think it's the best method to growing things because if you can get your mindset into thinking about focus on a few things at a time, get it strong, like you're building a house, right? And get it strong, and then put the next piece of the house on. Right, make sure that's strong and then put it and before you know you've got a whole house. Yeah. And it's built very firm. You know, it's not, the house of cars is not going to just fall down because everything was built, you know, either inefficiently or not thought through, or you just didn't put the time and effort you tried to. You're too impatient, try to rush through it. Right, right. And I've run into that before. So I'm speaking from experience, not from I just woke up one day and knew this. In fact, I got burned by thinking the opposite way, which is why this is pushed me really hard into this strategy. And I just know that it's, it works. And you do have to pay attention to all this, folks. You have to be intentional. You have to be focused and discipline. All of those words, I just use I know you don't want to hear but, but it's true. And it's needed. If you want to have a successful business where you're marketing, and you can sustain it. Blake Beus  31:08  Yeah, absolutely. Well, in closing, Greg, how can people reach out to you if you can Greg Marshall  31:13  just go to our website, Greg marshall.co. You can book a free strategy call go over any market ideas, and we're by Blake Beus  31:21  Yeah, just blink, be calm and reach out to me there. You can sign up on my email list. I have a couple of cool freebies. And you can even read about more about the membership program. I haven't called SM three. But yeah, we'll check. We'll check you guys later. All right, thanks.  

Wednesday Nov 17, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript Blake Beus  0:02  Okay, we're recording right recording. So, Greg, before before we hit the record button, we do this too many times we were talking about yes, search engine optimization or SEO, but specifically YouTube, SEO. And we both have a ton of thoughts on this you've actually been experimenting with with your own YouTube content on this. So, so tell people what you've been kind of experimenting on. And we will hash out some other ideas and plans and some things. Greg Marshall  0:27  Yeah. So I mean, one of the things is, I've been creating video content for a very long time for years now. And but one of the things that I have lacked is an actual SEO strategy, right? So I use my video content in very specific way to attract, you know, my audience and generate business. But one thing that I haven't paid attention to is the is Search, YouTube search, and how to actually maximize that. And so recently, I've been testing and you've inspired me to do this, this, so I'm going to give you credit for that. I want to make sure everyone knows that Blake actually inspired me to do this. But recently, I've been testing different strategies for YouTube search. And right now I've been doing what they call like newsjacking, which is whatever is the trend right now. Right? For example, we just had a big boxing fight on Saturday. And, you know, Tyson fury and Deontay Wilder was was the fight. So I utilized their event, basically, and then created a video that's related to so that it could pop up in the search. And I've done that a couple times. I've also done it with my team, the Baltimore Ravens, Lamar Jackson. And I've noticed that the search traffic on my channel daily has increased and it's in it's starting to increase more and impact other videos. And so that's just something that I'm seeing that's working. And I'm, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on like, yeah, search engine strategy, what you should be doing, and just in general, what should people be doing? Blake Beus  1:57  Yeah, yeah, I love the term newsjacking. It's one I actually haven't heard for a long time. A lot of people don't know, when I first started in the tech world, my very first job was Search Engine Optimization. For an E commerce brand based out of here, Utah, that is no longer around. But it was back in the day when we went to rank well, you had to have like 20 different websites with all the contents. We're managing content for all these different websites. But I'm glad that's gone. Quick story right along newsjacking when you guys remember when the Tesla truck was announced, and Elon, yes, did this thing. And he's like the the windows are bulletproof and has some holidays. And it breaks a window. One One marketer I saw and I was so jealous, I didn't come up with this idea. But he came out he dropped a video that was essentially titled, The real reason the Tesla truck window broke and talked about how, how, in his opinion, the window broke on purpose, because it generated a ton of news stories. And one thing that Elon Musk is insanely good at is generating buzz. And he knows he knows that a lot of people like to make fun of wealthy billionaires failing on stage. Yep. But he also knows that that will come back to him in money long term in Tesla truck sales, because there'll be able to say, well, we got it fixed, guys. I don't know if that's the exact reason why I broke but I wouldn't put it past Elon Musk to do something like that, that that's definitely something that I could see him do. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, um, so yeah, I mean, let's just talk about SEO and YouTube, SEO. So YouTube, SEO has been gaining popularity for years, you know? And there's, there's a few different reasons. First of all, there's so much content to SEO competition in the Google search engine. But Google, I don't know exactly when they did this is probably a couple of years ago, started showing relevant videos up above every single other search, search result out there. And so you can kind of shortcut your search engine results if you have good video content. And you've nailed your YouTube SEO, because then Google will say, Hey, this is a relevant video for these types of searches. We're going to bump this up above every other content out there. So if you're trying to compete against 1000s of different bullet bloggers, not all those people are creating videos because it's so it's more work. It's more intimidating. Like I get that it. But Google tends to reward you for that value content, and you can get get all the way up there. Not only that, YouTube in and of itself. A lot of people think of it as a video platform. Well, honestly, first and foremost is a search engine. Yes. That's how most people interact with YouTube these days. They don't go into YouTube and hit their subscription list and just start watching videos in there. They go to YouTube, and they're searching for answers to a question that they have. And while YouTube is massive, Google search engine is 1000 times larger. Yep. And so it's easier to rank and get good traffic, high quality traffic by nailing your YouTube SEO. Greg Marshall  4:55  Yes. And you know what, I have a very specific question because we talked about right for the record button went on. So I wanted to make sure that we touched. So you mentioned that I create, let's say, I have hundreds of videos on my channel, right? And some of them have done well, and some of them don't have as many views. My thought is, it's probably the title and the description, like it's just not optimized. Is there any value to going back and changing these titles? And are there any like do's and don'ts? Blake Beus  5:28  Yeah, absolutely. Go back and change those titles. It's not gonna hurt anything. If it's a video, that's, that's got good content, but it's not seeing the views you think you think you should be getting? Go ahead and change those titles? It seems I don't have any super, you know, concrete evidence of this. But it seems like if you go into your backlog of videos and give it a little bit of a refresher with some new thumbnails, and some new description, text and a new title, that YouTube seems to toss that into, like a more recent algorithm, gossan, whatever, and see if those those edits can generate some, but if they do, you can, you can actually get quite quite a bit more traffic. The the one thing that's very interesting about YouTube content, I mean, some content is gets stale pretty quick, but a lot of YouTube content, you can have high views on that year after year after year. If it's if it's the right kind of content, and so you can take a video that's two years old, swap out the thumbnail, swap out the title text to give it a better, you know, SEO SEO position, improve the description and see a big bump in that one of the people I've seen, and I'm so bad at remembering names, but the guy that runs a website, that's okay, dork doc. Oh, yeah. No, I Unknown Speaker  6:45  think it's Noah. Noah Kagan. Yeah. Yeah, someday, yeah. Yah, yah. Blake Beus  6:50  He has a bunch of YouTube content out there and everything. And I remember listening to an interview of him a year or so ago. And one of the strategies he was experimenting with was going back and changing the old titles. And every single time he got a big boost, he Greg Marshall  7:07  got a boost interest is that, and I've seen, I've watched this cause I think he has great content. And I hope I'm saying his name, right, Noah Kagan or something like that. But he's, I know, he's he's legit. Mark. I know, you started. Facebook. I think it was his first. Blake Beus  7:22  Yeah, he started Facebook. And then he I think he runs app Sumo. Yes. Right now and has has, you know, bought some WordPress plugins to mean, you know, keep them maintained properly and a few other things. And yeah, he's got his hands in in quite a few different buckets right Greg Marshall  7:40  now. Well, he's definitely a smart marketer. That's for sure. So alright, so So you're talking about YouTube search? What about what's the impact of descriptions? Like? Is there any value into having a short description, long description, does it matter? Blake Beus  7:58  It definitely matters less than the title, the title and the thumbnail are what make people click. In fact, there's a lot of YouTubers right now, that will, if their bigger channel, right, they'll they'll drop their new video, and then they'll watch it for the first hour or so. And after 30 minutes, and it gets maybe 10,000 views or whatever, they'll swap out the title and the thumbnail and see if they get a bump in views. If so, that's how they split test their title down now. Got it. Descriptions are probably less important. But you definitely need to have some sort of good description, if people are interested in your content, they're going to be dropping into the descriptions. I don't know about your browsing behavior. But when I'm on YouTube, I almost always if it's an interesting video, almost always hop in the description to to check out some additional FEMA saying Greg Marshall  8:44  I do the same and just to see what it's about, or if there's any additional links to you know, go to the website and learn more. So I think so that's, that's very interesting. So there's no I guess, negative really to changing the titles. If it's not getting the it almost to me, it makes more sense to optimize. Yeah, more than anything, right. Yeah, absolutely. Blake Beus  9:05  Absolutely. I mean, we talk about algorithms, everybody talks about algorithms all the time, and a lot of people get it wrong, but algorithms do kind of define a big portion of content consumers lives mine as well. I consume a lot of content also. And you have to keep that in mind when you're changing titles and things to try to give the algorithm the indicators that might might help it determine what types of people that content is valuable for and you got to realize too, you're dealing with the viewers are not just numbers, they're actual people. And so this is where I happen to the you know, behavioral economics or psychological sales or whatever. You you've got to kind of figure out when someone sees that what makes them click Yes on on the video and you know, I actually dove in deep on this a little bit because YouTube SEO is is super good. but it's not technically SEO. I mean, I guess it is. But the thumbnail is super, super, super important you want the thumbnail to be to to incentivize people to click data. And so you see a lot of strategies and patterns out there of like the face, you see like the surprise face, you see this surprise face, maybe you'll see like an arrow pointing to something that you can't quite see you want to click on it, or something circled that you're like you can't see or, or, you know, something along those lines. Obviously, some of them feel a bit more click Beatty than others, but you can do it in a in a good way that promotes value. And everything that will get someone to click in the thumbnail is one of the best ways to do that's a very visual platform. Greg Marshall  10:47  Do you know any statistics on what is considered a good click through rate on YouTube? Like a good click through rate on a YouTube thumbnail? That's something I think I know click through rates on ads and everything else but I don't actually know the the click the click through rate number that you should be trying striving to achieve on YouTube. Yeah, you Blake Beus  11:10  know what, that's gonna be one of those things. I'm gonna have to go look up. I don't I don't know if that information is given to you in the YouTube creation platform. I mean, if you pay for YouTube ads, yeah, you get that number. But I don't know. I don't know if YouTube in their analytics for just a regular video. Give you the impressions and the click throughs. You can occasionally Greg Marshall  11:32  you know what? I don't know. Maybe they've had it forever. But I have seen it. Really? Yeah. And I and it does show like impressions the click through rate. But I don't know what is considered a good click through rate gotcha for YouTube. I just know, like if I base off ads, but ads are different, because you're essentially forcing it Blake Beus  11:51  and you're targeting targeting people. Yeah, you know, Greg Marshall  11:56  like the most likely you're gonna like, hit your target. But this is more like a wide net that's been cast. So yeah, maybe that's something we look up. And Blake Beus  12:04  yeah, we gotta we got to look that up and circle back, I will say, more is better. Greg Marshall  12:08  Yeah, absolutely. The higher the number, the better, right. So Blake Beus  12:12  even if you don't know that for your channel, or whatever, just look at kind of what the average is for your channel and start playing around with things and see what you can get, you can get to beat to be better on Greg Marshall  12:22  that can almost be like a video game. Right? You're trying to gamify it? Yeah, Blake Beus  12:26  I mean, it's, uh, gamifying things is super important to help keep keeping people motivated. So that's one of those things you could look at and say, Okay, we're just going to kind of play this game. So you will get that click through rate to be up to. And the reality is, like industry standards and things, it's going to vary widely. So sometimes you just need to go figure out your own damn data. Greg Marshall  12:45  Yep. You know, yeah, well, I think the the other thing question I had is, is there anything that negatively impacts you in the algorithm? Like, if it's to click Beatty? Like, do you ever do you know, people get penalized for that at all? Or? Or does it matter? Blake Beus  13:00  I can, I can see if that's not happening. Now. I can see that happening in the future. Okay, but the one thing you got to realize is, YouTube knows a lot about your video. They they it's not like the video itself is this black hole? Right? Yeah, the algorithm can actually see what the content is on your video and make some intelligent guesses. First, the frequent transcription isn't for your benefit, Greg, or my benefit is for the algorithms benefit got it right. And so they know what you're talking about in the video, they know all of the content inside the video from a text perspective that can then be used for searching or whatever got. The second thing is, is they they do have some basic image detection that they can determine inside of a video kind of what the content is got. So if you're talking about I don't know how to make potatoes, you know, big potatoes or something, and your video is about bananas. You don't know it'll know that, that you have nothing. Unknown Speaker  13:58  Right? Like Blake Beus  14:00  and so but if it's like a talking head style video, that doesn't matter quite so much because you're not you're not showing images of the things right there. The other thing they they know too is they know they use indicators a lot. So are people watching the whole video? Are they watching this part of the video are they click on the video in the first 10 seconds, they're bouncing? They know that even if all the SEO aspects are good, if the engagement in that area isn't good, then they'll demote the video got it so you'll notice a and this is a standard storytelling pattern but you'll notice the videos that do really really well I'm talking the videos that consistently have from creators that consistently have you know, millions of views each video you'll notice that they always start the story in the middle Yeah, right. And and tease the the end results but not tell you the NBL or they always start with some sort of a surprise that's that happens in the middle of the story. And then they then they go back to the story they tell the whole story and you see literally the exact same content that you saw in the first five seconds, but it happens that maybe minute five or six or something like that. And then they take that through to conclusion. That's a very standard storytelling pattern. You see this in movies all the time, you see this everywhere. And you can very easily do it on short form videos like YouTube shorts, or tick tock videos, or Instagram reels. And you can do it on a little bit longer form videos, like a longer form, you know, 10 minute YouTube video or something like that. But you know, if you're talking about your, your ravens, yep, that that one, and you're talking about how that ties to marketing, you know, you could start in the middle of the story, some something talking about how how this, this unbelievable thing happened right before the end of the fourth quarter that send it into overtime, and you were blown away and couldn't believe and it made you not be able to sleep at night. And then you go back to the first of the story, you talk about how that story got set up and everything. And then the second half of the story. You talk about after the this incredible thing that happened, you talk about how that ties into marketing. Boom, you've got this very addictive. Yeah, storytelling that is, is interesting and valuable, and will get a large watch through right, Greg Marshall  16:07  you know, you bring up storytelling to you. I think one of the indirect benefits of doing video marketing, especially if you're trying to improve your results on the search is it's actually practice for public speaking, for communication for different ways for people to actually share their message, because I've noticed the more videos that I've done over time, it's helped me communicate better because it helps you with figuring out what you should be talking about what's the most important etc, etc. So second indirect benefit to really trying to get higher watching rates. Blake Beus  16:43  Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's, it's just about getting confident on camera, getting confident front of people, and you get better at a lot of these things. I I read somewhere that one of the biggest determining factors for high level executives, as to how high they will go in a company once they hit like the upper middle management is how good they are a public speaking or how good they are at present, presenting like a story and storytelling and everything. We're we're very enamored as humans by people that can tell a good story that has some sort of principles that we can we can take away. I mean, it's you see that theme over and over and over throughout the whole history of humanity. Yep. The the people that are good at storytelling are the are the people that we kind of look up to? Yeah. And if you look at anybody, some of the some of the big players out there, you've got, you know, Tony Robbins, yeah, the guy tells stories like nobody's business you got Gary Vee is always telling stories, even if it's a very short form story. You know, I remember once see, he had this very short video about supporting the original hustle. And yes, it starts by this lemonade stand. And then you know, buys, buys them out talks with them, whether they're business or whatever. And it's like the super short story with a bunch of, you know, context surrounding literally everybody's thought about sorry, yes. Greg Marshall  18:00  I still think about, Blake Beus  18:03  sometimes I feel like thrown in my hand. But yeah, storytelling is a super important one. And that's very vital for, you know, YouTube, SEO Greg Marshall  18:13  for data. So with YouTube, SEO, pretty much like a good recap is work on your titles. Do you know if a longer shorter title is better or worse, Blake Beus  18:26  it doesn't really matter, as long as it's catchy. But if it's too long, it'll get it'll get cut off, and you won't be able to see it in certain views. So that's the only thing I would say, to keep in mind. Greg Marshall  18:35  Got it. And then description and make sure you have somewhat of a description, to at least tell YouTube what the video is about, even though it can read your video probably more information for the algorithm the better. And what about tags, tags? Blake Beus  18:51  You know, tags are basically like hashtags in other places. And that's actually something I haven't delved into a ton. If I had to guess, I would guess that YouTube cares a whole lot, a whole lot more about your title and your thumbnail. And then the indicators, meaning watch through rate and click through rate. And those things than they do about the tags tags are, are too easy to just like throw in there. And then it's almost almost every content platform out there. They start with tags, and then they kind of deprioritize how important those are. And you see that right now with Instagram, hashtags. They're they're very much D. D. D, prioritizing. Greg Marshall  19:31  Yes. Blake Beus  19:32  How much reach you get from your hashtags right Greg Marshall  19:34  now, back in the day used to be able to get a lot of blogs, and then, you know, over the years, probably because everything always gets abused eventually. Right? Well, Blake Beus  19:43  and that's a very easy thing to abuse. You can sit down there and think about all these hashtags, related hashtags and take five minutes and you've got all these hashtags, but that was that was easy, right? You want to do the harder thing you want to do the thing that takes a little bit more effort because everybody in their dog can do the easy thing. Yep. The people that are putting Just a tiny bit more effort, we'll see significant Greg Marshall  20:02  more data word. Got it? And what about like with? Do you think there's any influence on what about outside reach? Meaning? Let's say you have a YouTube video is getting watching pretty well. But it's getting shared a lot on websites like places outside of YouTube. Do you think that impacts search in any way? Does it give it more value? Blake Beus  20:26  I would, I would say absolutely. Because that's another, you know, behavioral indicator. If if people are taking your video and embedding it on their own website, because it's highly valuable. That took a lot of effort, right? That's not just smashing the thumbs up. That's, oh, I want to copy this embed code. I want to go to my website, I'm gonna write a quick blog post about it. I'm going to throw it up there. That's a lot more effort than hitting than hitting even hitting subscribe or hitting the like button. Got it? So that will definitely have an impact. How much of an impact? I don't know, I would assume quite a bit. Because even the highly popular videos I can't imagine they're getting more than Yeah. You embed Yeah, total. So it's you're working with pretty small numbers there. But it can definitely have an impact for sure. Greg Marshall  21:15  Got it. So I think yeah, I think to recap, that pretty much tells us everything that we probably need to know as far as YouTube search and what to be working on. Blake Beus  21:25  Yeah, right. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I would just say, I would just say keep at it, I want one of my favorite quotes about creators or whatever it is. To make your to make really good videos, you have to make 100 or 1000 really shitty videos, yes, to get there. And just make sure the next one's better. And if you're a person like me, my perfectionism gets in the way of creating content a lot of the time. And because I want each piece to be super great. Yeah. So one of the things I do to kind of shift that is say, Okay, I'm drawing a line in the sand. This is done. Yep. All of the things I wish I did a little bit better on this piece of content. I'm going to carry those over into my next the next one. Yep. Right. But I'm going to draw a line in the sand say this is done. And the same thing happens with, you know, artists, or painters or people like that. Eventually, you have to say this painting is done. Yes. And move on to the next painting and take what you want to learn and move that forward. Greg Marshall  22:19  Yeah. So yes, I think, Blake, do you have anything else as far as YouTube search and what we should be doing? No, no, Blake Beus  22:26  I don't have anything there. But let's just let's just wrap this up and talk about, you know, how can people reach out to you Greg, Greg Marshall  22:33  yeah. So people if you want to reach out I do a free marketing consultation, helping your business, whether that's ads, even more anything to basically grow your business and the market strategy. You can see me at Greg marshall.co is my website to go and book that call. Blake Beus  22:49  Awesome. Awesome. And then for me, just blink, be calm. I have a few different offers on there. And you know, you can actually reach out and contact me on there, contact me on social media, whatever. But yeah, that's it. Greg Marshall  23:00  All right. Well, I guess until next time, appreciate it, guys. Blake Beus  23:04  Okay, we'll talk to you guys later. All right.  

Wednesday Nov 10, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript Blake Beus  0:06  Okay, we're good. Let's do this. Greg, you're telling me about this great marketing strategy that I heard, basically, how to get sales with zero costs. Greg Marshall  0:19  Yes, Blake Beus  0:20  this really cool. Greg Marshall  0:21  The the deal of prom is, is it's not legal. So basically, that's kind of the segue into the story that we were talking about before we hit the record button, which was I had a client last week. And I've seen this on other accounts to even you know, like bigger, you know, influencers or businesses that this happened to where a hacker gets into their account. And they actually set up an ad campaign. But using your money, and then creating rules on when you turn the ads off, it automatic turns back on. And on top of that, they remove the admins of the business manager, and then use very large budget. So the way they kind of did it, I think, Blake Beus  1:08  how you hurt, like, tell us how you discovered it, like, so. And then yeah, well, how it happens and everything Greg Marshall  1:15  and what to do about it. So basically, the way I discovered it was I really did it, outside of my client asked me who has a pretty good aspect per day. And so it's not like, they're not used to spending money on the platform. And so what she ended up reaching out to me and just say, hey, you know, I've been hit with a couple of charges of $1,500. And we increased, you know, my daily ad budget. And I was like, Well, I know, we haven't increased it to 1500 $3,000 a day. I know that. So I just thought, Oh, well, maybe there's, you know, Facebook did something or maybe it's a carryover from the previous month or so. So I didn't really think anything of it. And then I went to the ad account and I noticed I saw a campaign that the budget was set at $50,000 a day. And it was it wasn't per day it was 50,000 lifetime lifetime. Okay, over just a few days of oh really Yeah. And when I went there and saw that I was like wow, this I've seen these types of hacks on like pages where they you know, they're putting kind of spam posts of like buy this product is weight loss product or whatever. And you see it on a page and you know, their page got hacked, you just got to go ahead and recover I've never seen that actually an ad account business manager no and this way and what they did was they basically replaced they used my clients budget credit card and created this very big campaign but put their business information in as far as like optimizing for purchase their pixel their business page, their own ad everything so basically just went in and said I want to use their money instead of mine. And I'm gonna try to use $50,000 worth of pickup sales. Crazy thing was they were generating sales. Really? Yeah, so they were getting an average purchase about $80 a purchase. Oh, really? Yeah. Blake Beus  3:07  When what was like the order what would be like an order value? Greg Marshall  3:11  You know, I did not click the link because I didn't want to have any issue with it. But it was a it was a chainsaw. A chainsaw. Yeah. And your maybe wasn't just one of those, you know, the saws that cut the wood. You know, like when you're in a garage you basically cut the wood in half Blake Beus  3:28  how okay like a table song? Yes, that table so those those like, low end table saws probably about 150 to $200 that high end one could be like $1,500 Greg Marshall  3:37  I'm not gonna lie. I saw the video like it was probably get brought. So I saw and Blake Beus  3:44  it's like, it's it sounds like that was a legitimate company. Yes, Greg Marshall  3:48  it very much. So look, I mean, they had their pixel they had everything connected to so I was just the pays look legit, everything looked legit. So I was just like, what's crazy was what I've how this is what I discovered how they did it, not from how they access but what their way of essentially deceiving you is they labeled one of the campaigns the exact same name is a current campaign. So you wouldn't notice then what they did was probably to see if you are noticing the charges. They started with a really low budget, real lifetime budget of only a couple pennies, and then a couple dollars, and then you know $20 To see if you catch on to these charges being hit right. And then then I'm sure there's something else too like trying to train the Facebook algorithm to think this is real right so that they can increase their budget right. So then what they do is they created rules on anytime you turn off the ad. It automatic comes back on. And so I kept noticing that every time I would turn it off. It will come back on over and over and over again. And I was just like, oh, man, this. I don't even remember how I figured out that that's the rule. But somehow I clicked on something. And it brought me to the rule section. And then I saw they had all these rules. And I was like, Well, these guys obviously must do this a lot, because they have built this out perfectly interesting to where someone like myself, who's in Facebook ads all the time, still took a while to figure out how they were doing this. And so I just thought, wow, that's, that's crazy, because you would think you think it'd be tighter measures on that? Yeah, it comes to people's accounts. Yeah. Because people have their banking information on there. And you could easily if someone was account that maybe was spending about that amount per day, they could probably easily steal 1000s and 1000s. Without you ever really known. Blake Beus  5:55  Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you think about it, some of the big accounts, like big accounts, I'm thinking like, nationwide brands, like 10,000 100,000 a day. Yeah, 100,000 a day, there are accounts spending $100,000 a day. And so an extra five 610 $1,000 A day could go unnoticed. Yep. For a long time. Yep. And even even so, because a lot of those companies are using external tools to manage their facebook ads account. Yep. And so so anything set directly in the Facebook Ads account may not be pulled over into those external tool report? Yep. Greg Marshall  6:30  as well. Wow. Where are these? These? I'm sure these guys know all the ins and outs of how not to be seen. So I just, I think a good topic to go over today would be obviously, no one is known as is 100%. safer, because you even see big brands kit. Yeah, breach of security. Yep, pretty regularly. And so this is something that is most likely, if it hasn't happened to you yet, will in some instance, happen to you. I've had it happen to me, not from ads manager, but disabled accounts and reports of people trying to get into your pages and your biz. I've had that happen with a bunch of different stuff. And so I've tried my best for security purposes, but by no means do I think or know that I can 100% prevent that. There's very smart people out there that can do whatever they want. If they want me right, and so what are what are some of your suggestions on how to keep things safe? as safe as possible? Blake Beus  7:41  Yeah, yeah. So, um, so yeah, a big portion of my corporate career was in the financial industry, the banking industry. And so we had a lot of training. Plus my final project when I graduated from school, was I show people how to hack some websites. So I love this area. And my degree was actually an information security that specifically that was my emphasis. So so let's talk about a few things. The very, very first thing is humans, people are always the weakest link. Yeah. So no matter how secure are protected as system, if you can trick a human into giving you your they're giving you a password. Yep, that's the easiest way to get into any system ever. Yeah. And so there are some things you can do from like a security standpoint. But there's also you have to understand you, you yourself are the easiest durability target to that. And this has happened to some very smart people can get tricked as well. One of my favorite YouTube channels is a channel called the spiffing Brit. And he actually hacks things if hacks, video games and stuff. He got hacked by a spam email. And he did a whole report on how it was him. And he's like, he's a software guys a security guy. And he got tricked. Yep, recently, and he did this whole his whole YouTube channel with like, 5 million subscribers got deleted. Ooh. And so it can happen, everybody. But let's let's talk about the technical things, then we'll talk about some other things. So So absolutely, very first thing is if you're running ads, what you need to do is you you need to turn on what's called multi factor authentication, or two factor authentication. It's sometimes abbreviated, abbreviated with a to FA. And what that is, if you're not familiar with that you have you have one factor of authentication, which is your username and password, right, but then you have a second authentication which exists outside of that, where they will either text your phone number or a one time code to use or you can use an app on your phone called Google Authenticator, or there's a few others out there. Google Authenticator is the biggest one. And what those apps do is they generate a six digit code that changes every 30 seconds. Yeah, based on you know, an encryption key that put in and very first, that the server knows what that code is every 30 seconds, and your phone knows what that code is every 30 seconds. But no one else knows anywhere. So even if you have all your passwords in a password database, and someone tricks you out of that, and they steal all of your passwords, they still can't log in unless they have access to your phone, or that app on your phone. So that right there will cut down on most hacking attempts, simply because hackers are going to go after the lowest hanging fruit. And if you have that turned on, they're like, Well, I'm worth going after this account. There's a 10,000 other people that don't have this turnout, I'm not even going to worry about trying to attack this account. Yep. Right. And so that right there, just having that turned on for that reason alone will probably protect you because it's simply just not worth their time. Yeah. Right. So that would be the first thing I do. Facebook has this, you can turn on that multi factor authentication, they'll walk you through the process of that, definitely do that. Google, Google will do this for you, you can do this for your Gmail accounts or your email accounts, which is another good thing because another hacking strategy a lot of people have is they'll try to get your email password. And then from your email password, they'll try to submit like a password, reset to Facebook or whatever. And then that will get sent to your email account, which they have access to reset the password. And now you're locked out. And they're in. Yeah, right. So you can turn on the multi factor authentication, or the two factor authentication for that. It sounds super hairy, it's really not. Yeah, it's it's a very easy process. They'll walk you through what to do, they'll even give you some backup codes that you can write down on a piece of paper putting like a safe in case you lose your phone or something, you can use one of those. So those will be the first things. If you've done that, you'll 90% not have to worry about this, if you're just not going to be a big target. The next thing you got to think about is sometimes people will try to trick you into doing this, one of the ways they'll do that is they will send an email that looks like an official email, yeah, Facebook or something saying I've had this app, hey, there's been an issue with your account log in here to resolve it. Yeah, the and this is where it gets tricky. And this is where it's hard, even for a security expert to figure it out. Because if you click on that link, it could take you to a website that looks exactly like Facebook, but the URL might be a little bit different. It might be like Facebook with an extra URL to KS or something like that Facebook, or Facebook, or it could be like Facebook dot, you know, secure data.com, which is not owned by Facebook at all. Yep. And so if you get an email like that, that says, hey, there's something wrong with your account, the best thing to do is to not click on a link to those emails. But actually go to Facebook outside of your email, log in and see if you have any official messages from Facebook inside of there. If you don't, you can just delete that email and disregard it. But you don't want to click on any links in those emails, because they'll try to trick you. And that's how the the the YouTube channel talking about that's how they got hacked. Got it. And so, so it's hard. And the email can even come from an official source. Like this guy on YouTube got hacked, he got an email from a google.com email address. And it's because emails like that can be spoofed. I can, if you know what you're doing, you can send an email that has whatever email address in it you want. So So those are the types of things you want to look at. The other thing you have to look at is look at putting in from like a bank perspective. Yeah, daily limits on your cards. Yep. Right. So that happens completely outside of Facebook or any ad platform form. But you can tell your, your banking platform, this card is just for Facebook ads, and I'm never going to spend more than $3,000 a day on this card. Even though my limit might be way higher business cards can have really high limits, you can just say I'm never going to spend more than x amount on that. And you can call in and get that updated if you need to, or go into a branch get the updated if you're scaling up your ad spend. But you know, something like that will give you at least a safety net. Yep. To to make sure that you're not spending $50,000 You only get you only get screwed over for $3,000 which is a huge difference, right? Greg Marshall  14:16  And it's probably a lot easier to talk to your bank after and say well I put this for a reason. Yeah. And this if you know charging this much then it's obviously someone's just trying to take the money versus me using it for business. Yep. So Blake Beus  14:32  yeah, so I mean, that's kind of a long spiel. But if you do those things and keep an eye on what messages people are sending you, Facebook should never email you saying hey, we need your password. Yeah, no one should ever text you saying hey, can you give me that three digit code that just that you just got texted? Never Never do that? Yep. And they can make it sound official. They can make it feel official, of course. Greg Marshall  14:52  Well, that's what that's what the best do. Yeah. Does that make it seem official? And they probably practice on So many accounts, they've got it down to a science. Yeah. And so just trying to have the, I guess, the best security measures that you possibly can, with the understanding that, you know, if this happens, it's very possible. And it can happen to anyone. I've had accounts where I'm managing pages of, you know, several million followers, and their page gets completely taken away and hacked, and they're posting crazy stuff on their pay. And it's just, and you can get everything back, I guess, most of the time, nine times out of 10, at least, my experience, you can get everything back, you're just gonna have to, you know, go through the process of sending your actual, you know, driver's license, like all of your information. But yeah, this is probably a new prime. You know, we talked about this last week, you know, this, this is just with, you know, the world's changing, it changes fast. And there's just always a, you know, there's hackers out there always a step ahead. Right. And so, yeah, it's just, you just got to try your best, but I think having those security measures, and probably the number one thing, I would say, this goes back to, don't rely on one piece of traffic source of traffic, right, this client is using for total, so she pretty much never really panicked. Yeah, she just was like, Ah, man, you know, so she went and picked Facebook, while we're still running ads on the other platform, which is totally fine. But the other thing really is the end of the day. I think the biggest fear would just be, you know, people hack your stuff. You don't want to take all your money. Yeah. Right. I mean, because that's your livelihood. So maybe working with your banks to make sure that those are in order to make sure that if something like this does happen, which I feel like it's gonna happen to everyone, it's happened to me, I don't know how many times you're able to, like recover from and you're not putting yourself in like, huge danger. Yeah. And like I said, You just try the best you can, because even some of the biggest brands in the world have had data breaches. And we're talking about billion dollar industries. You just, you just got to keep keep your head on a swivel. That's all you can do. Blake Beus  17:15  Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I don't know if you've tried this, but Facebook should refund the money that was stolen. And I don't know, it's probably a hard process. But that's looking into, because it's clear that that was that was a hack. Greg Marshall  17:32  Right? Yeah. Which, which is one of the reasons why initially when I went in, I took pictures, but I didn't want to delete the campaign. Yeah, because I knew that the hacker would probably at least eventually delete me off, which they did, and try to delete that account, which they did as well. But at least we have all the information to show. Yeah, I even took a video of everything that happened. Yeah, I still had access. Yeah. So we have all this documentation. So yeah, at least say, you know, Give us our money back. I mean, that hackers probably gonna get away clean, but at least give us our money back. Blake Beus  18:08  Yeah, yeah. I mean, Facebook's a multi multi billion dollar business. And they, they know that fraud happens on their platform, and I'm sure they have, I don't know, might, they might have enough profits to be able to refund. Maybe, I don't know, things are probably pretty tight. For Zuckerberg. Greg Marshall  18:25  They are a lean startup. Blake Beus  18:29  Probably shopping at Costco these days to save money dollar store, because things are really tight for him. Right? Well, Greg Marshall  18:35  I think, you know, and with, also with thinking about security, you know, follow same measures for your pages, things like that. But I think the best thing to do, at least in my experience, because I've run into this, you know, this happens, at least for me four or five times a year, really where someone is trying to hack my page or, or do something. And well, the first time it happened, I remember like, oh, man, this is this is not good. And almost feeling panic, but you never make good decisions when you're panicked. Yeah. So the first step, I think, is to just like, take a deep breath, and just go yes, it feels like you've been alienated or taken advantage of, but you most likely if you think clearly can work your way out of it in some capacity. And it's not like 100% the end of the world. And if you're forced to have to use other strategies of platforms and you know, maybe it's a blessing, right, so but yeah, these these things kind of happen, especially, you know, in the internet world, and it's just, it's probably going to continue to that's probably gonna be the next big industry is people that are able to have lockdown security solutions, where it's very, very difficult to get in. But yeah, I mean, my already exists. Blake Beus  20:00  that stuff already exists. But the trade off is it's much more difficult for you to get in. Right. And so there's always this balance between security and convenience. Because if it takes you, you know, 30 minutes, 30 minutes to get into an account to make a couple of tweaks, yeah, most people aren't going to do that. Right. Most people are going to take that time. And so there's always this the balance. So I think I mean, really simple things like using a password database like LastPass, or one password or something. Those are legitimate secure solutions for storing your all your logins, creating logins that that are randomized characters, so they're not the same password for every everything, using multi factor or two factor authentication. And then making sure not to click on links, asking for passwords and stuff like that. You'll be in a pretty good spot, Greg Marshall  20:48  you know, I got a question for it. Security. Why? Because this is actually one way that gave me prompts. When you use different wi Fi's Are you more susceptible to getting your information taken, even if you have security measures, for example, I had my accounts, this is almost 10 years ago, but I have my accounts, you know, assuming they were like somewhat decently tight, and I traveled to Australia, and I went on their Wi Fi, and I just remember getting like, all these random notifications and stuff like that. And that's actually one of the times where the account got, you know, hacked or whatever. And so, does that have more to do with just Wi Fi? People hacking your Wi Fi? Or does that have to do with location? Or what is that? Mostly? Like? How do you because this client travels a lot? Yeah. Okay. So they're going from, you know, the south to the north to the East Coast. And so for clients who travel a lot, what do you do there? What are the best? Yeah, Blake Beus  21:59  I'm actually glad you brought that up. Because that does give, you know, there are some things you can do. So the short answer is, yes, technically, other wi Fi's could be less secure, and could lead to something. It's not as likely as it was maybe five or 10 years ago, because of how secure websites now it's much more prominent that HTTPS means it's encrypted between your your computer, and you know, the outside network. But there are some ways around that and not not to get too technical. But one of them is called the man in the middle where someone could have something also on the network that acts like a legitimate device, then sniffs all of your traffic. It used to be back in the day with open Wi Fi networks and stuff. You could people could sniff what you were typing and stuff like that. And that still technically can happen. I'm sure there's networks that are set up like that. So what do you do, one of the best things you can do is sign up for a VPN service. There's tons of them out there. There's Nord VPN, there's, I actually have a service called Tor guard that I use quite regularly for different things. And what a VPN service does is it encrypts all traffic on your computer, not just each webpage, but literally every network traffic, and tunnels it through securely, through whatever network you're on to a server somewhere else. And most of these VPN services, you can choose where you want your endpoint to be, you can choose to make it look like you're from Germany or Canada, you know, Utah, or whatever. But that will if you're ever on an open network that will encrypt everything, so no one can see what you're doing. And these services are super cheap. I mean, the one I pay for Tor guard is I think it's like 30 bucks a year. Yeah, yeah, or something like that. It's super cheap, and they're totally worth it. And as a side bonus, you can log in as if you're in Europe, and you can see what Netflix looks like. Because I have different licensing deals, you can stream stream from live, Greg Marshall  24:03  that makes sense, because my brother, he's, he's in cybersecurity. And I remember a long time ago, I thought, Are people really gonna waste that much time wanting to like hack your stuff or whatever, but it wasn't. So I got heavy into, you know, having access to clients, where you have to really think this through, like, you have to trust me as safe as you can. Because, you know, these are people that you're servicing. And so, my brother, I remember when he first told me about a VPN, I just thought, like, oh, man, maybe that's only accessible for like, you know, legit military kind of normal person. And what why would a normal person have that, but it wasn't until my eyes started to get open. I think that trip to Australia helped me really think about it because I was like, wow, that's interesting. Like, all of a sudden I got here and everything is like it's just all over the place. I'm trying to live against my client stuff. It's now it's locking me out and redirect me here. And I was in a hotel. Yeah. And so it just made me think through like, what other measures can you take in order to get as safe as you can? So there's nothing 100% But at least where it's like something where you're not, you know, concerned, all man, this class page is now compromised. I got to get it back. Yes, like I said, you nine times out of 10 you can get it figured out. But it really is like a huge time suck because it'll take like a whole day. Sometimes it takes a week, two weeks. Yeah. And we've had we run into this with memory, your ad account, where we got like, shut down for who knows what reason. Do you remember that? And we were like, we were running. And they were very profitable campaigns. Yeah, all of a sudden, we had to go through Fado. You know. Blake Beus  25:53  And it was it was it was brutal. We were spending about two grand a day on my videos. And it was it was it was crushing. It was doing four to 5k a day in sales. And then the ad account kept getting banned. And for just crazy reasons. And we had to work through through with Facebook and all these Greg Marshall  26:09  time sucks. It just takes you you know, you're learning and money. Yeah, it was Blake Beus  26:12  because we were profitable one day, and then the next day would get shut down. So then we'd have to spin it back up, and we lose money for the first two or three days or bills back, or builds. Yeah, backup the data and Greg Marshall  26:24  all these things. You know, like I said, there's there's no real reason to like, panic, but you can solve it. So that's that would be my advice, but it's just it is a big time. So it's a huge inconvenience. Especially if you're a very busy person, you got a lot of stuff going on. You know, you don't want to spend eight hours 10 hours a week Blake Beus  26:44  dealing with this? Well, yeah, I mean, it's just, it's like anything, you know, five minutes of preventative saves you 100 hours of fixing problems later. Absolutely. And so when it comes to like VPN, you want to just have this concept of trusted networks and untrusted networks, if you're at your house. Yeah. And you know that that's your router right over there. And the internet service provider is, is wired directly in your house, like you can send us a trusted network. And I don't need to use a VPN. I still use it from time to time because I do some stuff with location based data tracking. So I need to check to see how a website will look sure if I'm in a specific location. But you don't necessarily need a VPN at that point. Because you know, things are set up. Yeah, an untrusted network would be something like a hotel like a star. I don't know what Yes, Starbucks McDonald's. Air for the airport. I don't know. I don't know what's going on there. I don't know what measures they've taken. I don't know probably very mad. Oh, no. In the thing is, is people can set up their own wireless access points that look like yeah, the Starbucks Starbucks, right? Like, that's one of the ways if I wanted to go, yeah, hack someone's account, I would bring in a little wireless access point, I'd make it look like Starbucks. Yep. And then they would connect to mine. And I could look at all the traffic they have. But if I'm on a VPN, if I'm on a VPN, once I connect to that VPN, even if you're connected to my device can't couldn't see any of that true. Well, and I and I'm sure, I guess, to Greg Marshall  28:16  kind of wrap this up, as far as security is concerned. Just make sure, like Blake, recommend five minutes of preventative work, which saves you hundreds of hours, and at least minimize your chances of getting hacked. Or having any, like massive dam fall place. And so this reminds me a lot of insurance. And when you think of insurance, it's not the most exciting topic of like, Man, I sure can't wait to pay my health insurance. And my car insurance, right? Because most of the time, you're not going to be dealing with this. But you sure do love it. When you do have this thing happen. Yep. And it's in place. You're like, thank goodness, I did that. And so these are things that aren't as exciting as the new you know, Facebook marketing trick or the new tick tock ad, but it's something that you absolutely must take, you know, take into consideration and make it a priority because this stuff does actually impact your business. Yeah, Blake Beus  29:23  well, I think I mean, we talk about this a lot of the time it's the the boring details tend to be the things that actually push a business civil right. And I know we have gurus out there we kind of hammer on gurus even though we're kind of loving gurus our podcasts are so yeah, we are but the reality is a lot of them because marketing marketing one solution that fixes all your problems is much easier than saying, well it's actually pretty complicated. That's why a lot of the marketing messages we get out there on on biz, from business consultants and everything is like is like here's the super simple trick that will help you out And it's because it works because it's it's easy to explain that concept than the complexities. But that's why we do this podcast, we can dive in deeper on the complexity for the people that are interested in that. But yeah, pay attention those boring details. Yeah. And if you if you guys have, you know, you can you can contact both Greg or me if you have any questions surrounding just something like this, Greg Marshall  30:21  especially security, I recommend you reach out to Blake, just because he understands his house a lot better than I do. And this is your your field, basically, Blake Beus  30:31  basically. Yeah. And if you guys want us to cover more security related marketing topics, we can definitely do that. Just Just let us know. But Greg, what's the best way to get in touch with you? Greg Marshall  30:41  Greg marshall.co. You can book a free strategy session with me. Okay, and what about E? Blake beus.com. Blake Beus  30:47  You can kind of get to the several different things I do on that site and contact me there. Greg Marshall  30:54  Great. Well see you guys next week. And hopefully you enjoyed this this pocket. Alright, we'll talk to you guys later. Bye bye.  

Wednesday Nov 03, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes Greg Marshall  0:00  All right, we are recording. All right. Well, Blake, what's your thoughts on it? Let's get right into it. So Facebook has changed, you know its name. Well, not the properties that owns I guess, but just the parent company comm meta, meta, meta? Yeah. Meta. What do you what are your thoughts? Was this mean? Oh, I don't know. I mean, they've been they've they've been beat up a lot in the press lately over a ton of things.  Blake Beus  0:27  Maybe that sparked why they decided to make that change right now. A lot of people are talking about this concept called the metaverse if you've ever watched Ready Player One, or read the book Ready Player, one of you know, okay, okay. It's all centered around this online universe called the oasis. And, and it's very, it's like a dystopian future. Most people don't like living in the real world. So we hop into the this virtual reality and spending also time in there. And the whole economies and everything happening virtually, contest jobs, like people can log into their job and work all day in VR at an office of VR office and everything. And Metaverse is the kind of generic term for something like that. Yeah. A lot of people are speculating, I mean, not just name speculation, they literally said that this is what they wanted to do. But they wanted to take this whole concept and encapsulate it and make it a thing because I feel like in 1020 30 years, that's going to be the new way we operate kind of kind of a bigger reality. So they already own the Oculus VR headsets. So I don't know, we'll we'll just see. I mean, it's nothing's gonna change right now, we might see facebook.com change to a different domain name sometime in the future. But I mean, it's worth talking about, but it's all kind of up in the air right now. And I don't know how, how it's all gonna play out. Greg Marshall  1:56  Yeah, I guess my question would be, you know, I think sometimes we all forget, these are all businesses. So to make a business decision, that's what how do you think this benefits Facebook business wise? Blake Beus  2:12  Well, it's all about I mean, to use the the words, engagement or whatever, but it's taking engagement tank kind of to the next level. So imagine if, if a large percentage of the population their entire work day happened inside of this virtual reality. You could sell virtual billboard, you could sell virtual all sorts of virtual things, they could have their own virtual currency. And that currency could rival a currency of like a government. I mean, Facebook has one and a quarter billion people logging into it every month. Yeah. I think if they launched their own cryptocurrency, which they said they're going to do, yeah. Right. They they could have a currency that is, I don't know, more stable, more universal than the US dollar, potentially, eventually. Because you know, how many of you live in the United States? 330 million, something like that. Facebook has a larger audience than that. Yeah. So I don't know if they can get people to be fully immersive in their platform in their system. The sky's the limit for ways they can monetize and all of that. Greg Marshall  3:21  So basically, what it sounds like, it's, it's allowing them because I have noticed now obviously, this is a Marketing podcast. And so we talk a lot about, you know, marketing strategies. And I've noticed more placements in the Facebook ad account where you can place ads. Oh, really? Yes. recently. And I don't know if it's on every account. Maybe it's just on some because, you know, as you go, I noticed on different client accounts. They have a seems like different, I guess features. Yeah, right. Yeah. And one that I just saw, actually, this morning was the reels, not only the real placement, but then a real overlay placement, which is slightly different, I think, because it's so new. I don't know. So I'm making a speculation. I would guess it's similar to like, you know, the banner ads that are on YouTube. Okay, YouTube videos on the bottom. I think that's what that is. Interesting. I'm not 100% Sure. But I do know that there's a lot more ad placement. So Blake Beus  4:20  you're talking to the little banner that sits on top of the video kind of in the bottom center? Yes. I think that's what you're saying. There's like a lot of screen real estate on reels already. Greg Marshall  4:32  So that's why I said I don't I could be wrong. But my initial thought is because in the ads platform that actually says like reels and inferences as overlays. And so my only thought would be well, what's an overlay to me, would be some type of writing across the real. I led my reading. I Blake Beus  4:54  think that makes sense. So it'll have to be something we test out for sure. That It's interesting, I didn't know they were rolling out specific placements for that, Greg Marshall  5:05  and it seems like it just feels like there's more and more placements, you know, like they added the Facebook search, right? That was a placement that was new, it just seems like that placement list is growing. And so that's my thought is they're probably, you know, with, with meta, they're looking to expand, because there's so many people advertising in the Facebook newsfeed. And they probably want to have more control on data that they own. Yeah, so that they can't be blocked again, July things like iOS, or Blake Beus  5:37  Well, yeah, and that's the thing, that's what a lot of people don't realize is like inside the Facebook app, Facebook still knows all the things you're doing. And so the more they can, can control your entire online experience or controls probably the wrong word, the more they can own and have your entire online experience happen inside their platform. They were all of any any of their platforms, the more they're going to know about, you know you what you're doing, because that's all first party data, meaning data they're collecting directly from you heard their terms and conditions, because they're choosing to use their properties in their apps and everything like that. But it's like, you know, I, I think of advertising and real estate as the same quite a bit. You know, how do you how do you sell more homes? Will you open up some more real estate for sale? Right? And this the same thing with ads? How do you sell more ads, if it's a pretty congested marketplace, and costs are going up and people are ditching because costs are too high? You You You launch some more real estate, you give them more places to to put the ads and now you have more real estate to sell. And the thing with virtual digital real estate is the more digital real estate to sell, the more you can sell, right? Well, and Greg Marshall  6:51  if you're the first in the market, you can eat up, you know, which is the strategy that all these giant businesses use. If you're first to market. Yeah, you can eat up most of the real estate, therefore allowing you to be in control of the virtual real estate. Blake Beus  7:07  Yep. And if you if you can eat up so much, it's hard for anybody else to come in and make a dent every now and again. You'll see something make a dent but then company like Facebook, their plays usually just buy that company out. That's why they own Instagram. Yeah. Right. Instagram was knocking their socks off. I don't know, seven, eight years ago. It's been a while since they've and so they and they thought they couldn't compete. So they just bought Instagram. Greg Marshall  7:32  It's tick tock tick tock, right. Yeah, let's set a scene reels everywhere on Facebook. Blake Beus  7:35  You're seeing reels all over the place. And I think I think Facebook would be more than happy to buy Tik Tok right now, I think but I think the price tags is is too high. Or you know, I mean, it's owned by Chinese companies. So I don't know it. And Greg Marshall  7:51  here's my question. I'm happy brought that up, because my next question was actually going to be so did it tick tock did they sell? I remember hearing like Microsoft and Walmart bought either parts of Tic Toc, or maybe most of it or all of it? Did you do remember that there was a part where something was sold? Yeah, from tic toc. And I just remember Walmart and because it stood out to me like, wow, that's interesting. I wouldn't expect a Walmart or Microsoft to be involved with the TIC tock but I didn't wrong, but I just want to hurt someone. Blake Beus  8:27  I do remember hearing something like that. And I don't know the specifics. I mean, I could we could look it up and clarify in our next episode or whatever. Greg Marshall  8:34  But the I say that because how, how do you think that would impact the difference on if it's Chinese ownership versus American ownership? Blake Beus  8:44  Okay, so now we're gonna start, we're gonna, we're gonna dive into like data privacy and everything like that. So so the the concern, the concern is, and I get concerned, would that be dangerous, I get this concern, I get this concern. So so let's say I'm a government and I want to do some mass surveillance on my on a country that we have some okay ties with, but not the greatest ties with, if I could have a social media platform that everybody hopping on, I can collect any data on anybody I want to whatsoever. And early versions of Tik Tok sent a lot of data directly to servers that were hosted in China. And so security researchers brought that up, and that's one of the reasons what was it 2019, maybe 2020. Trump said he was going to ban tic toc from the United States. That was that was part of the reason why that whole conversation started happening. So one of the things that was discussed and I don't know how this fell out was that well, if if the parts of tic toc that operated in the United States could be owned by a US company, then President Trump said he would allow them to continue to operate and I don't know how all that fell out. There was there was some like there was a hole probably legal battle and everything going on with something there. And I don't know how that all fell out. But the reality is, is that a lot of these companies have lots of different investors. So when you say, well, Walmart bottom out, they may have invested in it, they but we don't know if they have a controlling, you know, stake and stake in it or whatever. That's what I was curious. Yeah. And so and I know, I know, Oracle, they're a big database company. They were looking they were there were one of the names that popped up Walmart, some of these others. I don't know how all that felt. I don't know what's going on. But it is a conversation worth having from a, you know, governmental standpoint about who privacy privacy of people and who owns that data. And these are all conversations that are that are going to be going on for the next 10 or 20 years as laws try to catch up with how fast technology has has outpaced Greg Marshall  10:52  Yeah, I definitely would say there's probably going to be a need for adjustment. Blake Beus  10:59  Absolutely. Greg Marshall  11:01  You know, before a lot of our loss feels like they were built previous knowledge, right, and they worked for that world. But now this is the new world when it comes to technology and what's being offered. And so I knows I would not want to be a lawmaker. This stuff is moving so quickly Blake Beus  11:21  that I mean, and not to get too political. Yeah, but more people should pay attention to how people vote surrounding technology and vote for candidates that put in or have a good understanding of technology, and how you want that to proceed. Because most politicians have no clue. When it comes to technology, and a lot there's been a lot of conversation about cryptocurrencies, lately with politics, and I don't want to go down this path. Yeah. But the reality is, is nearly everything politicians are saying about cryptocurrencies is is incorrect. It's inaccurate. Yeah. And what they're claiming is happening a lot claiming is going on. It's, it's incorrect. And, I mean, I'll tell you why. I'm been a software engineer for a long, long, long time, and I have never felt as dumb as I feel when I try to understand the technology behind cryptocurrencies and blockchain. It's insanely complicated. So if you have someone coming to you that's been like researching, you know, Blockchain technologies and things for a few weeks, or even a few months. And they're like, Hey, guys, I got a great handle on this, I promise you, they do not, it's insanely complicated. And there's a lot of implications there and a lot of moving pieces. And it's, it's not reasonable to expect our politicians per se, to understand the complexities of that. So most politicians should probably be saying something like, you know, this is really complicated, we should maybe put together a panel of experts to help guide us on lawmaking. Because this stuff is complicated. And you'd have to dedicate five years or so to your life to fully understand it. And that's not reasonable to expect our politicians to be experts in that kind of a way. Greg Marshall  13:13  Well, and you can see, you know, the kind of the road, we're gone down right here is the importance of data, and understanding how things are moving and changing. And so I think, you know, when it comes to your marketing, and how to guess, project in the future, one of the things that I think is important is to go, if you think almost like an investor, right? You have your own, you have your small business inside of the metaverse, right? And these big, you know, new atmospheres that we're operating under, you almost have to think like an investment thing. Have some foresight on what do you think is going to be the next places to essentially invest? And one of those things that at least a Mayan, I like to hear your and something that I would think that you'd really want to start investing in now would be different types of content that you can use? And how you would structure that content? And what's the new asset within these structures? When it comes to growing your business? Right. In the past, before technology, it was you can buy lists from companies that were getting this day, I mean, nothing's really changed, right? It's just the delivery of it, because I used to be able to get data from people who were buying magazines or whatever, from other companies, but it was just no one knew that you could do that. And it was kind of more hand to hand right? Like, right, these are the most recent magazine buyers, whatever. And so then the assets were Can you buy these lists? Can you get these names, these phone numbers, these emails, their buying history, and everything was kind of more name, phone number email, but moving forward, it might turn into Something different, right? It might be people watching stuff or people hanging out in some of these virtual arenas, right. And so I would think, in my opinion, investing for the future is to really understand what types of content and how people will consume the content moving forward, because then that's where you can start to invest your time and energy and money. Yeah. Blake Beus  15:25  Yeah. And I think, I think it's a super valid point. And we might get some people listening to this and saying, Oh, great, now there's more things they're gonna keep an eye on. But I asked someone who loves technology, and unlike involved in all sorts of areas of technology, at the end of the day, we're communicating with people and working on the behavioral side of sales, your angle, your messaging, how to provide that value, how to monetize that value, how to create content, that means means something to someone, and, and, but just maybe keep an eye on some of these new areas. But the reality is, is, you know, a written word is going to be around for a long, long, long, like it's never going away. Video is going to be around for a long, long, long time. So whether that's video delivered inside some sort of Zuckerberg Metaverse, or video delivered in some other way, it's going to be video. Yep. Right? Photos are going to be around the imagery or audio. Right. That's right, in so it's, in fact, Greg Marshall  16:33  let me let me cut you off really quick to ask you a question about this. Because you said podcasts. So I've noticed Facebook has increased. I'm seeing some of these other marketers uploading their podcast, a Facebook. Yeah. Have you had any experience with that? And, and or what are your thoughts on that? Generally? Blake Beus  16:53  I mean, the reality is, is the more places you can get your content, the better. It's such an easy thing to do to upload your entire podcast, especially a lot of you know, a lot of people have a, you know, virtual system or whatever. So they just send over the podcast and say, okay, upload it to all these places, that whatever, right, and it's just part of their normal content creation process. And throwing it on Facebook is great. I mean, Facebook might eventually launched a podcast version, you know, like an audio only version of something, I wouldn't be one bit surprised. The reality is those most people aren't going to Facebook to listen to a full podcast. So you might get a little bit of reach out of it. But there's no harm in throwing it up there. We have this podcast listed in you know, Spotify and Stitcher and Apple podcasts and Google podcasts. Because when people open up those apps that's there, they're there to listen to a podcast. And, and so it's just kind of how they consume it. But that, you know, there's no harm in throwing that up on YouTube on Facebook. Yep. IG TV will let you upload something up to 60 minutes. Yeah. You could cut it up and upload some snippets onto Tik Tok or whatever. You can do all those things. Greg Marshall  18:10  So really the the, and I will admit, I actually did consume my first and full long form podcast on Facebook. Really? Last was it last week, their nose two weeks ago? Mostly because I wanted to see how it operated. But also I thought the podcast was good. It was one of the I always say his name wrong. But I could see his face. But the Facebook guy Jon Loomer, Loomer. Yes. So it was it was his and his podcast is I think it was something named like, you know, beer and something. So his angle was he would have the podcast while having a beer with you. Right. And I thought it was kind of a cool idea. But yeah, I can see my first long form pieces. I hope I'm not the only you know, I actually had a good experience like it was pretty smooth. And I didn't have to like there. Were very little Kingson, how to consume it. Blake Beus  19:10  So was it a video? No, Greg Marshall  19:11  it was an audio only straight up audio just like if you were on the Apple podcast app or interested or anything else, I just click play. It looks exactly the same. It was playing even when I think I even when I got off of Facebook for a second. So I got a text message. It was still playing. And so that's like a feature that I think is kind of important because I've noticed, like YouTube is doing the same and some of these other app platforms where they're still keeping the screen. Even if it's not video, they're still keeping the audio screen available. So it could keep playing while Yeah, doing other stuff. So I don't know but I enjoyed it and I thought the experience is pretty good. Blake Beus  19:53  Interesting. Yeah, that's definitely something to keep an eye on then because I mean, the more places you can kind of have it. I typically don't listen to anything too long on Facebook mostly because, you know, I listen to podcasts and things while I'm doing something else. That's like, that's why I love podcasts so much. And and when I open it up in a browser window on my computer or something like that I don't usually listen to I don't open Facebook a whole lot on my phone. Got it. But if I close that tab, or whatever, yeah, it quits. And I can't go back to where it was. And so I just get frustrated. Yeah, stop. But no, that's super interesting. And like, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if we have a dedicated podcast section in the Facebook app, or the metaverse app or whatever. Why other what that's Greg Marshall  20:41  telling me those a lot of the Platt, a lot of what Facebook seems to invest in, are exactly the things that they they don't want their competitors getting a full head of steam like a tick tock. And as you know, podcasts are getting bigger and bigger feels like by the day. Yeah, it's it's something that a lot of people consume now. Whereas maybe, I don't know, seven, eight years ago, there wasn't as much consumption of podcasts outside of like maybe Joe Rogan or something. And I think like, you know, that gives you an idea of, I think, where things are moving, it's almost like you can look at Facebook, to see what the biggest trends are, when you start to see them investing more, and certain delivery platforms, and podcasting, and the reels, in my opinion, seems like that's the new way all of us consumers are consuming content. Yeah. So therefore, Facebook is investing heavily in that because there's other players that are providing Blake Beus  21:42  Yeah, yeah, I mean, I've to take to take a step back and just look at all of this. I've heard a lot of marketers, and even people in various different media spaces talk about, you know, attention. Yeah. And if you think about it, everybody has Greg Marshall  22:00  branded that. Yeah. Blake Beus  22:03  Yeah, that goes everywhere. We all have 24 hours in a day, right? And when we're watching TV, yeah, we're oftentimes on our phone as well. And that's about as much multitasking as we can do. But people like to try to do more than something more than one thing at a time. And podcasts audio only or audio books. Like that is the single easiest way to multitask. I don't I don't know about you, but I am always listening to something that's not music when I'm driving in my car. It's a podcast. It's an audiobook. It's something because I, I while I love music. Yeah. I like to, like have mental stimulation or whatever, while I'm driving. So Facebook is probably thinking, Okay, well, here's another way, if we can have a big chunk of podcasting, we can inject our own ads, we can start, we can start hosting audio ads, Greg Marshall  23:01  which, you know, just like all these other plans, Spotify has got the ads. You know, YouTube's got everyone's got the ads. I mean, everything is about ads, right. At the end of the day, it's about because we want whoever's gonna buy our stuff to see and hear us. Yeah. And so the way all these companies make money, is they have access to a way of knowing these people are watching this and seeing this or consuming that clicking this engaging on them. So I think yeah, I think the biggest thing that that I'm seeing right now is really have the foresight for investing in the future, which is understanding when I say investment, future, meaning even taking the time to understand how these other platforms are doing things, and most importantly, how people are actually using it. Yeah, because that's how you can come up with your ideas on really, at the end of day marketing is all about just getting in front of the person that may want your product or service. Yep. Right in its simplest form is you can't sell anything that you can't get the product in front of them. And so that's what these these platforms allow you to do is to get this is the new way how we are. Yes, stuff we used to read newspaper now it's on our phones. Blake Beus  24:17  Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you can see how things kind of transform. The oldest new Punk has been around for a long time, but Facebook's seems to start be starting to get into getting into those. And it's like, I mean, so they've kind of reinvented this thing to go out there. Yeah, newspapers, you know, they were the thing for the longest time. And now we get our news from our phone. And now we can actually sign up for lists that will send us aggregated news related to what we're interested in. So we don't have to try to filter through all the news ourselves, right, but it's still basically a newspaper. Greg Marshall  24:56  I use Twitter. Yeah. What's interesting is I tweet very seldomly. But I use Twitter a lot. Actually, I, but I go and consume news that I want to see. Yeah. And usually I feel like Twitter is the best platform to know what's going on right now. Like if something's going on, like, for example, if Facebook goes down, you go on Twitter, Facebook, not work, and you go on Twitter and beauty is already gone. So it seems like Twitter never goes down. You know, but it's probably because it's simpler. ISIS only words. So that would be my thought. I don't know if that's easier to manage. I don't know. But Twitter is my main source. Like if sporting events going on. If you know, big news is happening. I go on Twitter to see like the latest update. Let's go and see what's going on. You know, I don't know. That's how I like to consume my news base. Yeah. Blake Beus  25:52  Yeah, I get I get my from Reddit from Reddit. Greg Marshall  25:55  I've used Reddit, here and there. But I've got a lot of friends that yeah, like Reddit what? So why do you like Reddit? Better is Reddit better than Twitter. For information. Blake Beus  26:08  It's a personal it's, it's just a personal difference on how I consume news. So with with Twitter, you follow specific accounts. With Reddit, you follow subreddits, which can have hundreds or millions of members in there. It's like a sub community got it. And then people can upvote and downvote. And then you can look at what's hot today. And those are the things that are most uploaded. What I like about it is I tend to get exposed to two news stories and things that I wouldn't normally see if I were following a specific person. Right? So things tend to bubble up to the top a little slower than they do in Twitter. But you tend to get a more diverse set of things bubbling up to the top. I mean, literally could be the number one thing on Reddit today could be. This was yesterday, actually. And I sent it to my wife because we send each other stuff all the time. But yeah, the number one thing on Reddit yesterday, for a good portion of the day was was this. Puppy and duck got that we're like buddies. Yeah, that was number one thing. But the day before, it was a new story about, you know, some some sort of global policy or something, right? And so, so you get exposed to a wider variety of what you Greg Marshall  27:26  say it's a little bit less algorithm based, which is why you like it. Blake Beus  27:33  It's less algorithm based, maybe, Greg Marshall  27:36  like, it doesn't keep you in that what do they call it the echo chamber? Blake Beus  27:38  It's definitely less echo chamber, but it does lean a little bit more like from a political standpoint, it does lean a little bit more like center or a little bit left of center from like an American politics standpoint. But you'll see, you'll see stuff on both sides. Right. So there's less echo chamber, but voting manipulation totally happens. I mean, there's Russian farms that that have 10s of 1000s of bots that, so that totally happens. And that happens with that. So Greg Marshall  28:07  is, you know, I've always had the when I look at each social media platform, I think of them differently, right. And so I've always viewed Twitter is also an angry place. Is that the same? Where's more angry? Because I've heard Reddit can get pretty can get pretty brutal as well. Yeah. So what would you rate more anger? Reddit or Twitter? Blake Beus  28:35  I think it depends on which, which parts of each platform you get on. Yeah, the thing with Reddit is it's pseudo anonymous. So you don't normally know who's saying, got it. Right, because it's just usernames, and some people Greg Marshall  28:48  are more honest, they're Blake Beus  28:51  more honest, or more critical, or whatever. So there is some garbage on there. I mean, there's a lot of people on there. I think on Twitter, while there's a lot of trash, people tend to maybe pull their punches a little bit because it's almost always associated with their name or whatever. So it kind of it kind of depends. I mean, there's whole subreddits dedicated to like wholesomeness God, and there's nothing but like positive things on. Greg Marshall  29:15  Well, I can tell you this, I don't think there's something like that on Twitter. I see on Twitter. I follow mostly sports stuff. And, you know, you can see some pretty nasty stuff being said, Yeah, but I think, you know, when it comes to marketing, right, the new wave is these are the new channels just like they were on TV. They're new, you know, every platform attracts a different type of person, mentally meaning, where they're just how they're using a platform, right, like there to consume or contribute with some kind of content. So that's where I think all the marketing goes is understanding how can you plug your business in these forms? forums where it makes sense, right? Because if you do it wrong, trust me, he will pay you that your ad accounts get banned, or people bash you so bad that you're never going to want to go back on. And so you have to kind of learn and study. It's it's probably in your best interest to learn, study and invest in knowing who who's on these channels. And what are the best practice? Yeah, Blake Beus  30:22  right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, one thing I'll tell you right now, I mean, Reddit has its own advertising platform and everything like that. It's, I've never had a ton of success with it, read it. Read it as is, is a very different beast, because the community is very different. But if you want to reach people that hate Facebook, go on Reddit go right. Nearly everybody on Reddit hates Facebook. So if you're like, Man, my audience just isn't on Facebook. Yeah. Try out Reddit. Probably hanging out on Reddit, on I Greg Marshall  30:49  heard, you know, I've heard quite quite a bit about Reddit doesn't like not Reddit, the company, but the users do not like ads at all? Correct. I've heard that if you even put an ad on there, you just get absolutely demolished. I've never done it. I've just heard that that's how the, I guess the ad culture is on. on that platform? Blake Beus  31:13  I would definitely say there's a significant portion of people on Reddit that are more privacy focused. And online ads platforms are one of the biggest offenders to privacy in their eyes, the opposite. And and, and so and so yeah. But look, if you want to do some organic marketing, and get involved in a community, which we've talked about, like dark funnels, shark, social or whatever, this is one of those places, if you have some sort of a niche product or service or something like that, hop into these communities. And, you know, you can create, you can create a profile named your business, that's fine. Most people don't care or B, or just set your profile as like the founder or owner or VP at a specific business. And hop in there and genuinely be helpful. Yeah. Without being salesy. Yep. And you can get a ton of exposure. I mean, there's this concept called the, the Reddit hug of death. Okay. And and what it is, is essentially, if, if a story bubbles up to the top and hits the actual front page of the entire Reddit, yep, that site is going to get 10s of millions of views that day. Wow. And so there's a lot of times if it's like a smaller site, or a smaller company, they hit the front page of reddit, and everybody's going to look at it and the site goes down, because it's not set up to scale. Maybe they don't have a good infrastructure or whatever. And so in the comments, it'll be like, Oh, shit, guys, we have the site. Yeah. Greg Marshall  32:40  Well, that's I've never heard that. That's, that's kind of cool. Blake Beus  32:46  Yeah. Yeah. And so it's, it's a, it's an interesting way to do it. And there's, there's lots of different ways to do it. One, one person I saw that has done an excellent job of marketing on Reddit in Reddit has like this weird, ironic kind of witty humor thing. So if you can leverage that, you'll do really well. One guy, he's big on tick tock now, but he got big on Reddit first, and I can't remember his name, but he makes products that are useless. Okay. And then and then you can buy those as like gag gifts for your friends got it. So So what one of those Oh, shoot, I'm gonna botch it now. Anyway, they're products that are hilarious, but you just, they aren't useful at all. And then he has this store where you can buy them. But I'll have to put a link to that there. But they're, they're just these hilarious products. But he makes he makes these really funny videos about about them on. Oh, one was, here's one I actually just remember. Yeah. Okay, so he created this this product that you could put two rolls of toilet paper on. Okay, as you know, how there's this debate about whether toilet paper should be put on with the less coming out front versus the back. So he made this product where you could flip it, so that whatever your preference was, you could have you could have, you know, the tutorial toilet paper on there, and you could like flip this thing. Yeah. And, and he his video talks about how it would save marriages and that's right. So it's those kinds of products that are kind of funny and yeah, I got a huge on Reddit, like massive on Reddit, which which he used that to cross pollinate his YouTube audience and then he used it to cross pollinate on Tik Tok got it and the guy now has an entire store. I think he just started without selling anything. But now he has an entire like E commerce platform where you can buy these products. And every time he puts out a new video, which is about once a month if he gets on the front page, which equals probably 10 million views that day. And so that's, I'm sure the guy makes pretty great money, making these silly products with these silly ladies Greg Marshall  34:58  having fun too, and he's having a A lot of fun. Yeah, that's I think that's important. So, I think yeah, so so so to wrap it up, you know, we talked a lot about data a lot about the changes. But you know, that's, I've heard that, you know, data is is more valuable now than oil. Which I think is true, since there wasn't valuable, there wouldn't be all these privacy concerns of James Right. Yeah. So I think to wrap it up base, what you want to do is, learn more about different platforms, utilize, you know, different strategies, with growing your business and understanding that things are always changing. And so you must as a business, if you want to survive, you have to adapt, you know, the things that work yesterday, they're not gonna work today. And you just have to constantly be changing your approach and your strategy. And that's what makes us you know, fun and exciting is you're never gonna get bored because things are never gonna stay the same in this space, right? No, no. So I think you know, if you ever need help with any of your marketing strategy or your your, your messaging or things of that nature, you can always go to my website, Greg marshall.co book a free call. And then Blake, how do they get ahold of you Blake Beus  36:13  not just go to Blake calm and you can see all the different ways to interact with me there. There's some you know, some freebies, I have a membership on there. And yeah, you can reach out to me that way. All Greg Marshall  36:26  right. Well, hopefully you guys enjoyed this podcast and we'll talk to you guys soon. Okay. Later.  

Wednesday Oct 27, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript Greg Marshall  0:01  Alright, so we are we're on and one of the things I will talk about something I've noticed that, you know, I can't confirm because this isn't my, you know, area of expertise, this is more your area of expertise is it seems like so when I, when I run pay traffic, something similar to what I've had happen to me with email marketing, which is it seems like there's certain platforms that for whatever reason, the, I guess the partners, right, so you will say like Facebook, Instagram, or maybe Google ads or whatever pay traffic partner using, they don't seem to like or favor certain software's, right. So for example, I've used Shopify Click Funnels WordPress launch car, I mean, I've used I feel like I've used not all but a lot of right, Wix. And I can see there's a difference, there's a certain platform, okay, and I'm gonna say the name, I don't want to just completely shade anyone, it just seems like Facebook may not love this platform. So I love to hear your take on it. But yeah, click funnels, it seems like, for whatever reason, and myself included, actually have a Clickfunnels account. But it seems like for whatever reason, any client that's using Click Funnels doesn't get the same almost it's like the same offerings. But if they're on different platforms, it almost seems like they don't like Click Funnels or that they're Yeah, anti. I don't know, is Yeah. So is there any truth to that? And if so, why? Blake Beus  1:36  Yeah, so, alright, so let me just first say, there's going to be a lot of speculation here, but I think it's relatively accurate speculation, or also wouldn't be making it. So this, this reminds me of, I like to think this like a bad neighbor. Right. Okay. So, you know, if you're, if you're in a neighborhood or whatever, and you have a home value, that's I don't know, $500,000. And you have someone move in next door, and they just trash their house in their yard and everything, your value of your house goes down. And it's very much the same out on the internet. Now, typically, I would see this and this is a known thing with the cheap, say WordPress web hosts. The shared hosting that it's like two or three bucks a month, you could get placed on a shared server with someone and if one of the websites on that server was breaking the rules or doing something bad or, or cheating Google and SEO or whatever, your site would be associated with that, and your search engine rankings would go down, we associate your guilty by association, right. And that's the biggest problem with say a shared host is is you you bump into that kind of stuff. The same thing with with platforms, right. So Shopify, they have their whole infrastructure built out and everything. Shopify has been around for a long time. They're a good player. They're the biggest e commerce platform out there, I believe, aren't they? I think so. I mean, other than like Amazon, and that doesn't count. But like for people that want to run shop, want to run ecommerce, so the biggest platform out there, and they've got things dialed in now, now click funnels comes in. It's run by a marketer. Yep. And marketers like to play kind of loose and fast. Yeah. And push push tournaments. It's very true. And they've built out an infrastructure that has been buggy in the past and had some other issues. But in my opinion, if you do a Google search right now for for Clickfunnels, versus whatever, Clickfunnels vs. Kajabi, whatever, you're going to have page after page after page of articles that are spammy, that are just trying to get people to click on a Click Funnels affiliate link and sign up with Clickfunnels. I didn't even know Yeah, everything. If you research Clickfunnels, you're going to see nothing but articles talking about the pros and cons and then ultimately, they're going to recommend Click Funnels. And the reason is, because they have one of the most profitable affiliate commission payouts out of any platform out there right now. And that's a big part of their marketing strategy. But it means that a lot of people have in the past been pretty scammy and spammy with trying to promote the platform so there's this double edged sword got it and use in the past this isn't such a big deal now but in the past you would see this on websites like JVZoo and ClickBank those old affiliate marketplaces are also old school right. And they're still around. Greg Marshall  4:23  Yeah. It's still successful, right? Yes. Not as successful as in the past Blake Beus  4:28  not or they basically don't know they're still around and they're still big but it's almost like it's a different part of the internet. Yeah, and they operate in different different areas and a whole nother whole nother world, right. That's a totally different conversation but but with so so what you have have happened is you have Click Funnels being kind of associated with this negative thing. Google's whole entire job, Facebook's whole entire job is to give people a pleasant experience. They stay on their platforms. And if you have people taking advantage of that are skirting, the rules are playing a little bit loose and loose and fast. Their algorithms are set up to kind of penalize people based on certain certain metrics. So, if you have a large percentage of people going to click on all sites and have a bad experience on that site, they're going to start saying, Well, maybe it's not the site, maybe it's the platform and algorithms gonna start D prioritizing that. What that does is it means you get lower rankings on search engine results, you get higher cost per clicks, you have lower click through rates. And Greg Marshall  5:28  I've seen that in you know, I've seen that. Yeah. No doubt about I've actually tested same message on different platforms. Yeah, totally different save is a very, totally different experience. Blake Beus  5:39  Yeah. Yeah. And so and so that's, that's my my guess. Right? Is that that, that that's the case. Now, I was on the Click Funnels Facebook group, which is massive, you know, cuz I used to use Click Funnels as well, I moved away from them. And I feel like a big part of their ecosystem is relatively toxic and spammy and scammy. If you post any question, you're going to get and get nothing but DM saying, hey, I can help you with this, or hey, I can get out of this, or hey, sign up with my link or whatever. And Facebook sees all of that stuff. Got it, right. And so they start to think, Okay, this is a, we're going to let you guys still play in your sandbox, you're going to still have your Facebook group, you're going to still have all of that stuff. But behind the scenes, we're going to prioritize websites and platforms that give people a pleasant experience when you're paying for ads. Greg Marshall  6:26  Got it. So well, what do you recommend? For you know, not only my clients, but even for someone like myself that has Click Funnels? Yeah. What do you suggest? Do you suggest moving everything away? Or going to another platform? Or how do you fix this? Blake Beus  6:43  Yeah. So ultimately, the answer is, it depends. It really depends on people's individual situations. So let me put it this way, if you're running an offer, or whatever, and you're profitable, things are working, and you're on Click Funnels, and you're happy with the numbers, you're happy with the percentages, you're happy with everything. It's probably not worth it to switch. But it might be worth to just kind of look at some options. So you know that if you ever get to a certain point, you ever hit a certain thing, it might be worth it to switch because there's a huge cost in switching just from time and energy, everything like it's, it's a lot of work, and you're gonna lose a lot of business when you switch for someone like you, you're your main offer on the site is yours is basically just a website, you're asking people to get in touch with you and book a phone call. Yeah, like you don't, you're not selling anything. And you don't have a huge ask once people are on the phone with you. They get to know how authentic and real you are, and people just like that. And so it's probably not a huge impact on you unless you wanted to start ramping up your ad spend. And well, it wasn't working. The numbers weren't working out again, at that point. Greg Marshall  7:49  Yeah. And I can see that. And so that that's pretty good advice. Because one of the things I do notice is compared to other Clickfunnels clients that I have, my click through rates aren't bad. And it might just be because the offer and like what they're seeing, but the ones that are actually like selling courses, they tend to see pretty low, like, I mean, sick. And I actually saw recently, I ran a test and saw $100 CPM, which is unbelievable. That's insanely high on Facebook traffic of Facebook traffic, and that was sanely high. It was not keywords. It was not I mean, very generic broad audience. Yeah. $100 CPM. That's nuts. So obviously that ad is turned off. But I just you know it to me, it proves a point because most of my clients, especially ones that are using Shopify and even WordPress, their CPMs are typically around 20 or less. So think about that's five times more expensive. Blake Beus  8:58  Yeah, and for people that um, you probably know what CPM is cost per 1000 impressions impressions. But that's the metric that you're charged by. Right? So the cost per click is just a calculation based on what your CPM is. And so if you have a CPM that's $100 versus a CPM, that's $20. The CPM is $20 Gets you five times the traffic for the same ads yet which means your cost per clicks are going to be lower your click through rates are going to be lower your your cost per conversion, all of that's going to be lower because the thing you're actually charged out charged for the CPM is significantly lower. Greg Marshall  9:36  Yep. So yeah, it very interesting. I've tested it multiple different times. And it just seems like maybe those two platforms don't love each other. Maybe they're moving in the direction of how much Facebook loves that. Yeah, yeah. Blake Beus  9:52  So So I mean, here's some other vices so some people might be thinking, okay, it's fine for Greg to stay on there, but I'm struggling my business might be struggling, or whatever, because I'm on click funnels. And I think I might need to switch like what what are some options? Again, it really depends if if you want to go with the kind of D Do It Yourself route, you can go with something like WordPress. And you can get a decent hosts don't go with like a $3 host like Hostmonster or Bluehost or whatever, you're going to get off on a shared server and you might run into a problem. You can even run into a problem where someone else's site on your shared server is hacked. And so all sites on that that happened and it's nothing that you did wrong. But get on to a decent host like WP Engine or flywheel they're going to start at about $30 a month. Greg Marshall  10:45  Basically what you're saying is invest. Yeah, invest like actually like, because I see this with people that are trying to and I get it because they're just starting out. They're trying to do it on their own. So they get the cheapest host cheap is everything. But this is probably some actually I'm not even say probably this is something you should not try to be cheaper. This is actually something you should invest, you know, as much as you possibly can for your budget to get the best, you know, because it's like, good real estate, right? If you could have a great store, but if you have it in a very low traffic mall, or a place where people don't want to go because they're scared or it's not very safe or has a bad reputation, versus getting your store in a place that's high traffic people, you know, view is very safe, and very user friendly, you're probably going to get more business and have a more successful business going there. Even though it costs more. Blake Beus  11:41  Yeah, yeah. And and in the grand scheme of things, $30 a month for hosting versus $3 a month for hosting, you should be able to make up the extra $27 in some way, shape, or form. Yeah, right. I get it, I get it. Things can be tight. But that's a very good additional $27 A month investment and most salons or something if you have to. Yeah. Greg Marshall  12:03  And I think that's that that's very important. Because over time, what I've learned is, there's a big trade off. So if you are going cheap on certain things, they end up being more expensive became more expensive. If you get what D listed, or D platformed. Or you're getting associated with other people that are really damaging you even though you have no affiliation with the, you know, you can lose out on days, weeks on sales. Having your business it's almost like if you had a storefront, and just randomly they just closed it for no reason for three weeks. It's like Blake Beus  12:42  you cheaped out on the front door locks. And one day, one day the door locks couldn't be opened. Yeah. And so you have customers outside, and they're just walking past because they can't come in the door. And you're literally losing money because of that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So so that that'd be a way I'd go if you're going to go something like WordPress, if you want to do if you like drag and drop builders, WordPress has several of them. My favorite is one called Elementor. They have a free version and a paid version, the free version is usually good enough for most people to get started. And so you don't even need to know code or whatever. And you can you can install that plug in and and just get just get going with drag and drop building. It's all mobile responsive, it's relatively fast page load speeds. So you should be pretty good there. If you're ecommerce, you should really be on a platform like Shopify, I think there's a few others a few others out there, but Shopify is the best. One of the reasons you you don't see these problems Shopify is I'm guessing that they have an internal team dedicated and relationships with Google and relationships with Facebook, to make sure that their platform is compliant. Because the risk of Shopify not being compliant impacts 10s of 1000s of ecommerce businesses. And so they're dedicated to making sure that they have a good relationship with both of those platforms. And that if there's any issues with ads, or anything like that, they're resolved as quickly as possible. And so they're dedicated to success. You would think Click Funnels would would want to do that as well. And I'm sure right now there are people at Clickfunnels saying, hey, we need to do this. They're just not a big enough player. Yeah, to get to get Google to care that much about having that those relationships, and maybe they're working on it, they probably are. They also have a lot of, they probably cut a lot of corners and a code code end of things early on to get the product launched, which everybody does, it's fine. If but as a product matures, if you get a good dev team in there, they start fixing those those infrastructure issues and themes. But it takes time. And I'm sure Clickfunnels has extremely talented developers, and I'm sure a lot of the developers they're like, Okay, I know exactly what we need. And we're working on it, but it just takes a lot of time because you're working on a platform that is huge millions and millions of clicks a day. And so you can't just make these large sweeping changes because it could impact a lot of different things. So just take the time Greg Marshall  14:58  impact of negatively and I think You know, to give a level of sympathy tourism, it's probably same thing that we talked about with Facebook, right? Where, if you're very good, this is a problem to have. And sometimes you think it's it, it couldn't be a problem, but it can, which is if you have a very strong marketing, very strong sales, and you have a good growth plan, and that plan is executed well, on the front end on the top end, yeah, the product delivery sometimes can be very challenging to keep up with that level of demand. And so with that comes these types of problems. Yeah, right. Where it's like, you're cutting corners, you're because you're growing so fast, you're just constantly putting band aids. Mm hmm. And that may be what's what's going on here is it's just band aid after band aid, but eventually, you know, that scab gonna get pretty big. We gotta, we gotta, you know, stitch it Blake Beus  15:54  up. Yeah, yeah. Yep. And, and, look, I'm confident that Clickfunnels sticks with it, they'll probably get there, and then get to the point where they're pretty solid TerraForm. But I would say for for many, many people, if you feel like this is an issue that's impacting you. There's some other alternatives out there. I mean, WordPress is great, Shopify is great. If you want an extremely simple page builder, you don't have anything too complicated and you want a cheap one. There's this one out there that more people need to know about. It's called card.co. Okay, it's CA, rr de.co, I believe it might have two Ds, it's either two hours or one of the two. But it's a little drag and drop builder with extremely fast loading pages, that will let you put a contact form and embed maybe a Calendly link or something like that, and it looks nice, it's mobile responsive, and it loads super fast. Got it. And I think they're only like 20 bucks a year got a thing like that. So if you need like two or three pages, and that's it, and you're trying to bootstrap something quick, that that will be a good one. And they they don't, again, they're small company, they don't have an interface with Google or whatever. But from a code perspective, they're doing things right the pages load faster, mobile responsive, you have proper SEO tags you can put in place. And and there's they don't have this issue with the potentially toxic affiliate scammy spammy kind of thing happening. And, and they tend to rank really, really well. So that might be an option for people. They don't have like a, a membership portal and all of these other things, but it's simple website, you need a contact form, you need a good looking site. That's a good way to go. Greg Marshall  17:34  Got it. Got it? Well, I think, you know, for the most part, with platforms and how they integrate with other platforms, you know, we all got to be good neighbors to each other. Yeah. Right. And we all you know, everyone has their their own, quote, unquote, house rules, right? Someone else's house, you got to follow the rules, or you get kicked out the house. Blake Beus  17:57  I like that. That's a good, that's a good way to put it. And I mean, some of the rules might seem super arbitrary and silly. I mean, for the longest time, Facebook had this 20% text rule. Yeah. Which was the bane of any advertisers. Yes. And that's been gone, thankfully. But they do have a few other arbitrary rules. They have a few good best practice rules, as well. Just like having your terms and conditions in the footer of your landing page, a few things like that. So you just got to make sure you're playing by those rules. And make sure you got good neighbors. Greg Marshall  18:29  Yeah, yeah. Be and make sure to be a good neighbor, you know, yeah, don't, you know, don't exploit or do anything against their terms, obviously, we all know, we try to do the best we can to give all of us the best advantage. But you know, you got to play with the house rules, because usually, short term gains will give you long term pain, that's a way that I like to look at it. So anytime you try to take shortcuts, like you're talking about, you know, it might be able to make you feel good today, but it'll cause a lot of problems in the future. So, so just think of think of everything as a long term play. Try to, you know, follow every person's house rules. And yeah, we can't be you know, too, too entitled to these people's homes, right, because they are offering their homes to us at a very low cost. But, you know, with that being said, we just we all got to try our best and you know, and we also have to be aware that if sometimes if your neighbor is maybe even unintentionally behaving wrong, sometimes we just need to take a little break. Right. And find maybe another circle to go Yeah, so yeah, Blake Beus  19:41  before we wrap it up, though, we ought to talk about email real quick. Yes. Yeah. We were gonna we were gonna talk about that and emails the same the same kind of thing you were telling me before we turn on the mic. Yeah. That you have seen some of your clients that have, you know, email marketing platform, a virtual email marketing platform B Yep. And email marketing platform. His spam rates are significantly higher, even though the content of the email is quality or whatever. It's the same thing. So there's this whole, like, can spam act and all these spam rules in place? And it's it's honestly pretty complicated. Yeah. But you want to pick an email provider that takes that stuff seriously? Yes. And it's hard to figure out what that is. Yeah, as well, by signing up for all of them and testing it on large scale or whatever. So one of the things I would recommend is, keep an eye out for the the platforms that have super aggressive affiliate marketing. Yeah, because if they do have a very aggressive affiliate marketing, that means that some people are probably taking advantage of that. People out from that from those. And you can get associate with a bad IP and start seeing that happen. Now, if you feel like you're on a platform where your spam rates seem too high, most of the time, it's not the end of the world to switch to something else. Yeah. And, and I honestly, at this point, probably couldn't recommend any specific platforms. But I would say stay away from anything that has, like some crazy free option, because if it's free, someone's going to spam. Yep. And if you if you are on a platform, and you feel like you're too high on your spam rates, one of the things you could do is actually pay a little extra each month, all email providers have this. And you can have a dedicated IP address. So that way, your emails are all sent from like this custom domain and dedicated IP address. And you're the only one that has that. So then the spam rules only follow you. And so you basically are creating your own neighborhood. Yeah, and no one else is in that neighborhood. So you're fully responsible for for if you get flagged, it's your fault. It's your fault. It's your fault. And you you know, you need to adjust how you're doing things if you get flagged. So that's that's a couple other things to think about. But I don't know if you have thoughts around well, Greg Marshall  21:58  you know, what, one one thing you know, that I gauge things around, especially when it comes to email is a text message. If the easier it is to upload a foreign list, the more likely that it's you know, that they're getting flagged, right? That's that would be my guess, because what I found is the ones the platform's I've used and I'm using a whole bunch of different ones with clients. The platform's have the highest open rates are also the most militant, when it comes to double opt ins, making sure that these people actually give you the permission to and even if they aren't customers, they still kind of make you jump through hoops to make sure that it's legit. Blake Beus  22:44  Yeah, so what you're talking about is if I upload a customer list, if my email platform requires all of the people on that list to get an email that says I'm opting into this list, yep, that's probably a good platform for because they're taking spam rules. Seriously, yes. If I have a platform where I can upload a list, and I know Greg Marshall  23:04  Yeah, shit about Yeah, then they're most likely gonna, Blake Beus  23:08  they're not probably being very strict and militant about the spam rules. And you're probably going to see, see worse open rates and worse, you know, delivery rates and all of that stuff. Greg Marshall  23:18  I agree. And the CRM system I use personally, for my business, is very militant about it. And initially, it was kind of irritating, because it's like, it's my list of customers. I can't just be on there. But now that I'm looking at, I'm like, Yeah, but also the open rates when I sense that for 70% 80%. Yeah. And, you know, you just don't get that most, you know, email platforms. So I think it has something to do with, they're very, very strict on how you communicate with people on your list, which, in the long term, like I said earlier, short term gain equals long term pain. This is, you know, vice versa, which is, I guess, short term, you can't bring on list as easy and you have to go through, you know, a bunch of terrible optics, but it's also higher quality, so I'm not getting flagged for anything. You're getting huge open rates, and you're having an overall more positive experience. And they, you know, I think you get rewarded for Blake Beus  24:16  that. Yeah, you definitely do. You definitely. Wait, I'm curious. What are you using? Greg Marshall  24:21  I'm using keep, keep calm. So, EP, K EAP, EAP. They were affiliated with Infusionsoft. Oh, okay. And, and I've, in my experience, all the guys that seem to be doing really well that don't get viewed as spammers use this Yeah. And so not keep exactly I know, they view some level of Infusionsoft. But I know keep I think is a spin off, Blake Beus  24:50  you know, different environments. One I've used a lot and that's what I've never used. Yeah. And Greg Marshall  24:54  I actually got on it about two years ago. And it's I love Have it? Yeah, I really liked the service. I think they run it very professionally. And I think it's actually repels a lot of people who don't want to run for it. It's higher price. Yeah, you know, so I'm paid somewhere around 150 or 200 bucks a month to really to use it. So it's not a, you know, 10 bucks a month, and you can do and that might be why, right? Yeah, you're probably paying for a higher level. Service. At least that's what I like to sell myself on. Yeah, Blake Beus  25:30  I'll have to dive I'll have to dive into keep as well. That's what I haven't used. But I've used a lot. The one I'm using right now is called drip calm. Okay, I'm pretty happy with the delivery rates and open rates on that one. And they're pretty strict about adding people to the list and everything like that as well. Greg Marshall  25:45  Well, if so, if you're learning anything from this episode, Blake is is recommended. Basically, don't be afraid to invest in your hosting. And your CRM, yeah, write your email software, don't be it. Those are great investments. Because Blake Beus  26:00  two core platforms, you're gonna, you're gonna need, you're gonna need it, you're gonna need Greg Marshall  26:04  anyone to have the visibility, like you're getting these emails. And you're building these websites so people can see them. Yeah. Right. So can't Blake Beus  26:14  see if they can't see working. Greg Marshall  26:18  The money that you think you're saving, you're actually losing, you're losing because they can't see what it is you're trying to show. Exactly. So I like that. I like that mentality. And I appreciate you explaining more in depth on how these work, because those are super valuable investments that people need to make. Blake Beus  26:35  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So um, so let's wrap it up. Yeah, Greg, how can people get in touch with you? And do you have anything to like, pitch or tell people about any shameless plugs of your, Greg Marshall  26:47  you know, me, any kind of marketing help that you need, especially like, building awareness, getting more clicks to your site conversions. If you'd like to learn more about how I can help you just visit Greg marshall.co. And just book a free call. And we can just discuss, you know, whatever your business needs. But no, no, no crazy plugs in there. Shameless plug. shameless plugs, just hopefully, like are. Blake Beus  27:14  Alright, and if you want to get in touch with me, just Blake Beus calm. I do actually have a shameless throat anything. We've, we've may have talked about this before. But since we're talking about hosting, it fits. So I recently I've been asked to I've been doing consulting for a company called Asian for a long time, the last few years, just some consulting and I've been really impressed with what, what they put together. So I've actually hopped on as someone to help with growth, so helping kind of manage some of the growth on that. But it's specifically centered around WordPress, hosting, and administration. And it's geared towards people that were bootstrapping it themselves getting it all figured out. And now they're to the point where they're trying to decide, Okay, do I hire someone full time to just manage my website and the plugin updates and the security of the website? Or do I constantly keep trying to find freelancers to help me? Or, you know, how do I manage that, and this is essentially a managed service. So for one flat rate, you get, you get a dedicated team to help you with all those things, any content updates, or whatever. And I've been really impressed because, again, owning your platform and having control over that platform is becoming really important. Yep. And I think it's gonna be even more important as we start hopping into, like cookieless ads and all that stuff, which are topics for another day. And so I wanted to I wanted to hop on board with that. So yeah, if you have any questions, surrounding something like that, that's my shameless plug. You can hop over to ideation.com Ay ay ay T io n.com. Or just hit me up a Blake calm and we can we can chat. I highly recommend Greg Marshall  28:44  using Blake services, he definitely knows what he's doing. So if you want to save yourself a lot of time and probably a lot of money, I highly recommend you do it. Yeah. All right. Okay. Blake Beus  28:56  We'll wrap it up with like his later guys. Bye.  

Monday Oct 25, 2021

Listen on: Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Podbean App Spotify Amazon Music Tunein + Alexa iHeartRadio Player FM Listen Notes   Transcript: Blake Beus  0:01  Hi, I'm Blake Beus, and I'm your marketing technology Maestro. Greg Marshall  0:06  Hey, I'm Greg Marshall. I'm your social media marketing strategist. Blake Beus  0:09  And this is the modern marketers podcast. Okay, so we want to talk about on this Motivation Monday, Monday motivation. I don't know which. Yeah, it's around. But Greg Marshall  0:23  it's I think it's all good. We'll keep it open and flexible. Yeah. So I think, you know, we want to talk about change. And what was the quote that we change brings opportunity? Yes. So change. The funny thing about change is, I don't know about you. But I hate it. But I know that it's necessary. And all of the great things in my life have always come from changes. Yeah, even though I tend to resist them as much as possible. And I don't know if that's something that's just a thing that I worry and deal with all the time. Yeah. Or if you ever feel that way, but I do know that. Over the years, I have trained myself to understand, the more I resist something, the more likely I need to do it. Yeah. And it never feels good when I do it, initially. But it always turns out better. So what, what situations or experiences have you had? Blake Beus  1:19  Yeah, well, I mean, look, the fact that matter is, every good thing that is coming in my life has come through some sort of difficult changes, like literally everywhere, difficult, difficult change, right, like easy changes, that's fine. But some sort of difficult change, whether that's, you know, when I first graduated college, doing job interviews and things, those those are all difficult than getting hired on that whole, the whole, like, first 30 days, that job is a very difficult Yes, or, or even when I got let go from my most recent job, which started my entrepreneur journey. That was a super difficult change as well, that was not like a fun situation to go through. But I'm happy with where I'm at now. Yep. And Greg Marshall  2:05  you probably got a lot of benefits from from those changes. And even though they sting when those changes happen, they hurt. Blake Beus  2:14  Yeah, they hurt really bad. They hurt really bad. So so, you know, let's talk about when you're presented with those difficult changes, like, is there a mindset? Greg, do you think that that helps you get through that? Or? Or is it just something you just realize, this is the hard thing, I'm just gonna plow through it or what let's talk about how to get through those difficult change. For me, Greg Marshall  2:35  I know, in the past I've struggled with, with these changes, because a lot of times they come at like inopportune times, right? And it's not the picture, perfect idea that you had in your head, before these changes came about. But typically, what I tend to do, that I didn't do a long time ago, is I tend to surrender to it. So I actually think, Alright, this change is going to happen, whether I like it or not. So I'm going to have to make the best of this change. And I use past experiences as reference points to kind of, I guess, Kotoko made me feel better. Yeah, which is, I've gone through the changes before in the past, and I've survived. Yeah. And typically, not only have I survived them, but I've gotten better and stronger from them, even though the lessons that are learned are very challenging. And like I said, they stain while they're happening. And so the mindset I like to use is to surrender to a man to understand that I can't control everything in the world, I can only control few things. And so just focus on that, and not worry so much about, you know, the future and the anxiety that it can bring when you get these changes. So that's what's helped me in the past, as far as mindset wise, just it I think it's almost counterintuitive, at least to me, it's counterintuitive, which is to surrender, when it happens, just surrender to it, and figure out how can I make this situation the best that I can make it and trust in the process? Yeah, as cliche as all that sounds. That's that's really what my mindset goes, right? Blake Beus  4:09  Yeah. Also, sometimes cliches are true. Yeah. Just because it's a cliche doesn't mean that it's false. So yes, that Ray boy, I like that surrender. And honestly, that's something that I need to to work on more, I will say, in addition to surrendering. One of the things I've had to learn to do, and one of the things I've noticed I do, and I know other people do this, too, is I tend to take all of the future negative possibilities, and cram them into this instant right now saying, Oh, my gosh, this change has made it so that all of these future potential things could happen. And then I feel all of that, you know, weight gain right now, in this instant, but it's impossible to actually do anything about all of that stuff right now. In a sense, yeah, because you can only do One thing at a time, yeah, one step forward at a time. So one things I've had to do is is reduce the reduce my mindset around the permanence. Yes, some of the change in the permanence of some of these potential impacts. Yep. And focus on the temporary or the impermanence of the things that I can do right now that can have a large impact later on. Yes. And it's, it's been this weird thing that I've kind of realized over the last year is the difference between permanent negatives, versus temporary negatives, permanent positive positives versus temporary positives and focusing on the things that I can, you know, manage right now. Yep. And that can directly impact the permanence moving forward, or whatever? Greg Marshall  5:47  Well, I think something I like to use, that's important, is essentially controlling something that is outside whatever the situation of the change is. And so for example, if I'm going through a big change, I tend to like to, you know, grab on to a different goal at the moment to help me kind of deal and cope with the current change that's going through, right, which, you know, in some cases, sometimes it's fitness related, family related, but just something different than what's currently going on, so that I can have a sense of accomplishment. I like that, right. So that it just, these are just coping mechanisms that I learned over the years to try to keep myself motivated, and to not get so discouraged on any type of change that I give up. And so these are literally like tricks that I play on myself, to try to get myself to keep moving forward, because I know I have to, and it's mostly a psychological game. Blake Beus  6:50  Well, we'll wrap it up right here, but you heard it here. Greg says he tricks himself into being motivated. Yes. Yeah, Greg Marshall  6:55  that's definitely true. Totally Blake Beus  6:56  does work. I mean, I've actually read studies of things that show that that definitely works. It's part of the I know, this is another cliche, fake it till you make it. Yep. But that's, that's part of that. We can trick our brains into, into moving forward on things by by selecting smaller goals that we can accomplish right now. So anyway, we'll keep the short. We'll wrap it up right now. We'll see you guys next Greg Marshall  7:19  week. We'll see you next week and we'll get you pumped up    

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